News flash: NIL, the transfer portal, and Coach Prime are killing college football

[CatManTrue]

Wait, no they’re not. TV ratings are booming.

Can Northwestern football even hope to compete while maintaining its integrity? Doubtful but we shall see!

Primed by Deion Sanders and Colorado, college football ratings continue to soar

College football continues to deliver massive television ratings, and Deion Sanders and Colorado have played a major role.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Wait, no they’re not. TV ratings are booming.

Can Northwestern football even hope to compete while maintaining its integrity? Doubtful but we shall see!

Primed by Deion Sanders and Colorado, college football ratings continue to soar

College football continues to deliver massive television ratings, and Deion Sanders and Colorado have played a major role.

sports.yahoo.com

What does “integrity” mean to you in that context?

 

[CatManTrue]

What does “integrity” mean to you in that context?

Student athletes who truly value the education. At this level, it’s basically us and Stanford whom meet the standard.

We likely can’t compete in the true New World Order that is coming. Hopefully we can lick our wounds with likeminded peers who also can’t.

I’m looking at Duke, Purdue, and Vanderbilt to start.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Student athletes who truly value the education. At this level, it’s basically us and Stanford whom meet the standard.

We likely can’t compete in the true New World Order that is coming. Hopefully we can lick our wounds with likeminded peers who also can’t.

I’m looking at Duke, Purdue, and Vanderbilt to start.

Why is that “integrity” to you?

I’d go with “graduate your players and follow the rules.” I 1000% think we could do that and be much more modern in our approach to NIL.

 

[CatManTrue]

Why is that “integrity” to you?

I’d go with “graduate your players and follow the rules.” I 1000% think we could do that and be much more modern in our approach to NIL.

With admissions as they are, it won’t matter. It’s supposedly harder than ever to get into Northwestern.

And if admissions are lowered, it would be legitimately tougher for more athletes (across all sports, but especially football) to make it through 100% of the time.

So what’s the breaking point we’re comfortable with? 100%? 98%? 90%? 80%?

 

[gocatsgo2003]

With admissions as they are, it won’t matter. It’s supposedly harder than ever to get into Northwestern.

And if admissions are lowered, it would be legitimately tougher for more athletes (across all sports, but especially football) to make it through 100% of the time.

So what’s the breaking point we’re comfortable with? 100%? 98%? 90%? 80%?

I don’t think it’s a direct causality between admission standards and graduation rate, especially considering the amount of academic support given athletes.

 

[Gladeskat]

With admissions as they are, it won’t matter. It’s supposedly harder than ever to get into Northwestern.

And if admissions are lowered, it would be legitimately tougher for more athletes (across all sports, but especially football) to make it through 100% of the time.

So what’s the breaking point we’re comfortable with? 100%? 98%? 90%? 80%?

100%
No dimbulbs!

 

[Catreporter]

Mark Stoops on his loss at Georgia on Saturday: Georgia bought some really good players." That's where this thing is headed.SI did a puff piece on how great NIL is (for MICHIGAN.) Gee, what a surprise! What's it going to be like for most of the rest of the competing schools?

 

[IGNORE2]

Why is that “integrity” to you?

I’d go with “graduate your players and follow the rules.” I 1000% think we could do that and be much more modern in our approach to NIL.

So much for cleanest program…goal posts predictably adjusted.

 

[IGNORE2]

100%
No dimbulbs!

#irony

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

100%
No dimbulbs!

You can be a dimbulb and still graduate.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

So much for cleanest program…goal posts predictably adjusted.

…graduating your players and following the rules is the definition of a “clean program.” But you’re a muckraker, so you do you.

 

[IGNORE2]

…graduating your players and following the rules is the definition of a “clean program.” But you’re a muckraker, so you do you.

Following the rules? Does NU have a rule about hazing? Asking for a friend embroiled in litigation.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Following the rules? Does NU have a rule about hazing? Asking for a friend embroiled in litigation.

You do you, man.

 

[seavue617]

Don't know about NU but Illinois has a statute which I don't think applies. For it to be "hazing" under the statute, the offensive conduct had to be REQUIRED for admission or induction to a school group. If I recall correctly, at least one ex-player stated on the Rock that he refused to submit to the "hazing" and there were no repercussions.

 

[IGNORE2]

You do you, man.

Me and the legal system and school and anyone else that believes a rule is a rule. In a world that seems to really have selective application / enforcement of the rules, your comment is quite apropos.

 

[IGNORE2]

Don't know about NU but Illinois has a statute which I don't think applies. For it to be "hazing" under the statute, the offensive conduct had to be REQUIRED for admission or induction to a school group. If I recall correctly, at least one ex-player stated on the Rock that he refused to submit to the "hazing" and there were no repercussions.

NU has a very wide sweeping rule. Previously discussed which led to the pro-PF side to say it’s unreasonable and therefore doesn’t count. The lawyers in the room said rules are rules. Don’t like them, get them changed. Sign an agreement to abide then that was your conscious and well compensated choice.

As for gcg, my original point stands. You all used to include ‘cleanest program in football’ and ‘those scandals won’t ever happen here’ in your arguments. It has now fallen back to simply graduated everybody and give out participation trophies. Great value for a modern B1G coaching salary…wait, here comes the admissions distraction…

 

[gocatsgo2003]

NU has a very wide sweeping rule. Previously discussed which led to the pro-PF side to say it’s unreasonable and therefore doesn’t count. The lawyers in the room said rules are rules. Don’t like them, get them changed. Sign an agreement to abide then that was your conscious and well compensated choice.

As for gcg, my original point stands. You all used to include ‘cleanest program in football’ and ‘those scandals won’t ever happen here’ in your arguments. It has now fallen back to simply graduated everybody and give out participation trophies. Great value for a modern B1G coaching salary…wait, here comes the admissions distraction…

Wait for it… it is entirely plausible that Fitz did what he could to monitor the program, but also that lines were potentially crossed.

Where does the responsibility end, at coaches’ obligation to set up and actively pursue monitoring or any kind of potential malfeasance?

That’s basically the crux of Fitz’s lawsuit, putting aside the breach of contract (which is really where I think Fitz ends up scoring a significant settlement).

Knowing what I know about the man, his values, and the way he ran the program, I think that he likely took his eye off the ball a touch for a few years and he put too much trust in the locker room’s ability to police itself. I fully trust that the lines of communication (exit interviews, leadership council, open door policy, etc.) remained open, but at some point it is also on players to raise their hands when there is an issue. Based on Fitz’s filing and other public statements, he is very confident in putting forth witnesses willing to swear to the open monitoring that would be requisite on the head coach in this instance.

Long story short: I still feel like there were some probably problematic things that happened in the program, but those issues rising to the level of Fitz’s firing was as much due to Schill and Gragg’s public relations mismanagement as the events that actually occurred.

 

[NU Houston]

Mark Stoops on his loss at Georgia on Saturday: Georgia bought some really good players." That's where this thing is headed.SI did a puff piece on how great NIL is (for MICHIGAN.) Gee, what a surprise! What's it going to be like for most of the rest of the competing schools?

I saw that story about Stoops. He wasn't even criticizing Georgia but was instead telling Kentucky fans to start ponying up more dollars for their own collective. How can a school like NU compete against this, and even if it could, is it something we'd want?

I'm at the point where I wouldn't mind NU playing in an academic-oriented conference with schools like Stanford, Duke, Vandy, BC and Rice. Definitely Rice, so NU would get back down here to Texas (it's been over 10 years now!).

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I saw that story about Stoops. He wasn't even criticizing Georgia but was instead telling Kentucky fans to start ponying up more dollars for their own collective. How can a school like NU compete against this, and even if it could, is it something we'd want?

I'm at the point where I wouldn't mind NU playing in an academic-oriented conference with schools like Stanford, Duke, Vandy, BC and Rice. Definitely Rice, so NU would get back down here to Texas (it's been over 10 years now!).

How does the Tampa Rays make the playoffs each each? How did the Diamondbacks beat the Dodgers? You don’t need to be the top spender to win.

 

[NU Houston]

How does the Tampa Rays make the playoffs each each? How did the Diamondbacks beat the Dodgers? You don’t need to be the top spender to win.

For every Tampa Bay there are at least five small-mid market teams (e.g. Kansas City, Pittsburgh) that aren't really competitive year after year. The Dodgers have made the playoffs for 11 straight seasons. More often than not, spending money correlates with achieving success on the field.

 

[NUCat320]

Knowing what I know about the man, his values, and the way he ran the program, I think that he likely took his eye off the ball a touch for a few years and he put too much trust in the locker room’s ability to police itself. I fully trust that the lines of communication (exit interviews, leadership council, open door policy, etc.) remained open, but at some point it is also on players to raise their hands when there is an issue. Based on Fitz’s filing and other public statements, he is very confident in putting forth witnesses willing to swear to the open monitoring that would be requisite on the head coach in this instance.

Long story short: I still feel like there were some probably problematic things that happened in the program, but those issues rising to the level of Fitz’s firing was as much due to Schill and Gragg’s public relations mismanagement as the events that actually occurred.

Also, because Fitz wasn’t willing to say “I took the eye off the ball” or “I should have known” or “It was my job to know.”

Also, because the “suspension” was literally tied with a pre-planned vacation.

NU’s decision to bury the story, to release no details was catastrophic. That said, if the details were released (specifically, *sexualized*), perhaps there wasn’t a chance of survival.

But “I was in charge for 17 years and I’m not responsible for the culture in the locker room” was the wrong approach.

He could’ve escaped with an actual suspension and a public apology/flogging.

It *is* notable that all those line of communication were open, and that nobody came forward. Like, it’s wrong, or uncomfortable, but it’s also part of our program’s culture.

(Aside: Dang, Fitz debate in the ‘people like watching Colorado football because it combines underdog story, hip hop culture, celebrity, and, yes, Coach Neon Deion’ thread. Wowzers.)

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

For every Tampa Bay there are at least five small-mid market teams (e.g. Kansas City, Pittsburgh) that aren't really competitive year after year. The Dodgers have made the playoffs for 11 straight seasons. More often than not, spending money correlates with achieving success on the field.

My point is money will not be the only factor in determining success. The Mets, Yankees, and Padres had the three highest payrolls in MLB last season and all 3 stunk. The Orioles were 29th out of 30 teams. NU will not ever “buy” 5 star talent. They will need to identify lower ranked talent that can take that next step, See Greg Newsome as an example. Newsome was considered a very good prospect but not elite enough to be aggressively pursued by the blue bloods. NU has to have enough NIL juice to not lose someone like him to Minny, Illinois, Iowa, or Wake Forest.

 

[IGNORE2]

Wait for it… it is entirely plausible that Fitz did what he could to monitor the program, but also that lines were potentially crossed.

Where does the responsibility end, at coaches’ obligation to set up and actively pursue monitoring or any kind of potential malfeasance?

That’s basically the crux of Fitz’s lawsuit, putting aside the breach of contract (which is really where I think Fitz ends up scoring a significant settlement).

Knowing what I know about the man, his values, and the way he ran the program, I think that he likely took his eye off the ball a touch for a few years and he put too much trust in the locker room’s ability to police itself. I fully trust that the lines of communication (exit interviews, leadership council, open door policy, etc.) remained open, but at some point it is also on players to raise their hands when there is an issue. Based on Fitz’s filing and other public statements, he is very confident in putting forth witnesses willing to swear to the open monitoring that would be requisite on the head coach in this instance.

Long story short: I still feel like there were some probably problematic things that happened in the program, but those issues rising to the level of Fitz’s firing was as much due to Schill and Gragg’s public relations mismanagement as the events that actually occurred.

You have totally changed the context. My original post reflected the change in apologist messaging to drop ‘cleanest program’ part. Whether or not PF is found to have known, clearly it’s not the cleanest program.

So the new apologist tune is simply everyone graduates. $5MM/yr to get them diplomas out. That may not be seen as smart by the rest of the world but that’s the NU way.

 

[IGNORE2]

For every Tampa Bay there are at least five small-mid market teams (e.g. Kansas City, Pittsburgh) that aren't really competitive year after year. The Dodgers have made the playoffs for 11 straight seasons. More often than not, spending money correlates with achieving success on the field.

Astros

 

[NU Houston]

My point is money will not be the only factor in determining success. The Mets, Yankees, and Padres had the three highest payrolls in MLB last season and all 3 stunk. The Orioles were 29th out of 30 teams. NU will not ever “buy” 5 star talent. They will need to identify lower ranked talent that can take that next step, See Greg Newsome as an example. Newsome was considered a very good prospect but not elite enough to be aggressively pursued by the blue bloods. NU has to have enough NIL juice to not lose someone like him to Minny, Illinois, Iowa, or Wake Forest.

Money doesn't guarantee success, but it goes a long way in helping to achieve it. The Orioles are a rebuild and will soon have to start making hard decisions about payroll. The Padres and Mets are dysfunctional, which shows that team culture is always a big part of winning. But so is money.

Northwestern won't be competing for B1G championships in a conference with 18 teams including USC, Ohio State, Michigan, Oregon, etc. It's not happening. They haven't beaten Ohio State or Michigan in nearly 20 years. Yes, they can continue to "overachieve" and have some relatively successful seasons, but they won't be playing for championships in this environment. I'm at the point where I'm not really bothered by it, and I have little interest in watching these semipro blue blood programs race to outspend each other in a system that has few rules or guardrails.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

You have totally changed the context. My original post reflected the change in apologist messaging to drop ‘cleanest program’ part. Whether or not PF is found to have known, clearly it’s not the cleanest program.

So the new apologist tune is simply everyone graduates. $5MM/yr to get them diplomas out. That may not be seen as smart by the rest of the world but that’s the NU way.

And, as I said in my response, I genuinely think Fitz did pretty much everything he could in terms of exit interviews, leadership council, etc. The vast vast VAST majority of the roster absolutely loved the guy, clearly there were a few that did not and seemed to make it a personal issue based on what I’ve heard.

 

[phatcat]

I saw that story about Stoops. He wasn't even criticizing Georgia but was instead telling Kentucky fans to start ponying up more dollars for their own collective. How can a school like NU compete against this, and even if it could, is it something we'd want?

I'm at the point where I wouldn't mind NU playing in an academic-oriented conference with schools like Stanford, Duke, Vandy, BC and Rice. Definitely Rice, so NU would get back down here to Texas (it's been over 10 years now!).

Duke doesn't belong in this group. They haven't cared about academics in basketball for decades. They just sucked at football. Now that they have a solid football program, make no mistake. They are not gonna care about academics

 

[RhabdoWildcat]

How does the Tampa Rays make the playoffs each each? How did the Diamondbacks beat the Dodgers? You don’t need to be the top spender to win.

The talent gap between two pro teams is magnitudes smaller than Ohio State and Alabama to Northwestern. Tampa Bay and Arizona can be small spenders and still get good enough talent to compete. Also baseball is a funny sport where you can be the best team and lose in the Divisional round.

In football and particularly college, big money buying top talent has a much higher R squared than other sports.

If NIL and super conferences are here to stay, I truly don’t see Northwestern ever being competitive enough to be anything other than cannon fodder.

 

[hdhntr1]

How does the Tampa Rays make the playoffs each each? How did the Diamondbacks beat the Dodgers? You don’t need to be the top spender to win.

Bad examples. There are a couple ways in baseball to get to the top and one involves spending more on the minor leagues and getting guys to the top at the same time knowing you cannot keep them beyond say 5 years, Then you hope to get things to a point every 5 to 10 years where things come together. Other programs tend to use the draft and development and fill in everything else by buying what they need. Point is they have the draft and minor leagues and if you do poorly you get access to higher level young talent and as guys get expensive you can trade them to restock. CFB has nothing that equalizes things out like drafts and trades do. And now if you find or develop a diamond, another program can just go direct and by them without giving any compensation

 

[IGNORE2]

And, as I said in my response, I genuinely think Fitz did pretty much everything he could in terms of exit interviews, leadership council, etc. The vast vast VAST majority of the roster absolutely loved the guy, clearly there were a few that did not and seemed to make it a personal issue based on what I’ve heard.

Not sure a ‘clean’ program cares what PF did - it’s either clean or not. NU was not. Accordingly, the homers have dropped their chorus of ‘cleanliness program in the country’ appropriately. Now the selling point is simply graduates everybody. Great aspirations for a high budget program at such a high intelligence school.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Bad examples. There are a couple ways in baseball to get to the top and one involves spending more on the minor leagues and getting guys to the top at the same time knowing you cannot keep them beyond say 5 years, Then you hope to get things to a point every 5 to 10 years where things come together. Other programs tend to use the draft and development and fill in everything else by buying what they need. Point is they have the draft and minor leagues and if you do poorly you get access to higher level young talent and as guys get expensive you can trade them to restock. CFB has nothing that equalizes things out like drafts and trades do. And now if you find or develop a diamond, another program can just go direct and by them without giving any compensation

So you are saying we are screwed?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Not sure a ‘clean’ program cares what PF did - it’s either clean or not. NU was not. Accordingly, the homers have dropped their chorus of ‘cleanliness program in the country’ appropriately. Now the selling point is simply graduates everybody. Great aspirations for a high budget program at such a high intelligence school.

Damn those Homers, Apologists, Enablers, Alpha Males and of course the PKK!

 

[IGNORE2]

Damn those Homers, Apologists, Enablers, Alpha Males and of course the PKK!

And yet they still lurk 🤦‍♂️

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

And yet they still lurk 🤦‍♂️

Until they get deleted!

 

[FanatiCat]

Wait for it… it is entirely plausible that Fitz did what he could to monitor the program, but also that lines were potentially crossed.

Where does the responsibility end, at coaches’ obligation to set up and actively pursue monitoring or any kind of potential malfeasance?

That’s basically the crux of Fitz’s lawsuit, putting aside the breach of contract (which is really where I think Fitz ends up scoring a significant settlement).

Knowing what I know about the man, his values, and the way he ran the program, I think that he likely took his eye off the ball a touch for a few years and he put too much trust in the locker room’s ability to police itself. I fully trust that the lines of communication (exit interviews, leadership council, open door policy, etc.) remained open, but at some point it is also on players to raise their hands when there is an issue. Based on Fitz’s filing and other public statements, he is very confident in putting forth witnesses willing to swear to the open monitoring that would be requisite on the head coach in this instance.

Long story short: I still feel like there were some probably problematic things that happened in the program, but those issues rising to the level of Fitz’s firing was as much due to Schill and Gragg’s public relations mismanagement as the events that actually occurred.

Really excellent post, I think this is probably what happened. Fitz took pride in the culture and in the character of his student athletes which was true like 99% of the time. The leadership council, captains, locker room structure again was great 99.9% of the time but inadvertently created some potential blind spots of accountability. That 0.1% that failed to come through the captains, the exit interviews and the open door office hours is what caused the problem. But that is NU’s fault as much as Fitz and he should not have been fired. Fitz had no head coach or coordinator experience outside of NU and should have been given more guidance and “dyad” support to make sure that the right policies were in place. NU failed to support and develop Fitz’s career and leadership skills.

 

[NUCat320]

Really excellent post, I think this is probably what happened. Fitz took pride in the culture and in the character of his student athletes which was true like 99% of the time. The leadership council, captains, locker room structure again was great 99.9% of the time but inadvertently created some potential blind spots of accountability. That 0.1% that failed to come through the captains, the exit interviews and the open door office hours is what caused the problem. But that is NU’s fault as much as Fitz and he should not have been fired. Fitz had no head coach or coordinator experience outside of NU and should have been given more guidance and “dyad” support to make sure that the right policies were in place. NU failed to support and develop Fitz’s career and leadership skills.

I was with you until you said a 17-year head coach needed a mentor. C’mon.

For whatever reason, players were uncomfortable sharing with the coaching staff what they were comfortable sharing with the administration. Maybe that’s because McPherson was around for related activities. Maybe that’s because the sign in the locker room implied approval. And maybe it’s because Fitz himself Shrek clapped.

Was it just one sh*tty QB that had an axe to grind who brought it down? Sure, except that he wouldn’t have been able to bring it down if sexualized stuff didn’t happen in the locker room.

“Never again” levels of Fitz-countability.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I was with you until you said a 17-year head coach needed a mentor. C’mon.

For whatever reason, players were uncomfortable sharing with the coaching staff what they were comfortable sharing with the administration. Maybe that’s because McPherson was around for related activities. Maybe that’s because the sign in the locker room implied approval. And maybe it’s because Fitz himself Shrek clapped.

Was it just one sh*tty QB that had an axe to grind who brought it down? Sure, except that he wouldn’t have been able to bring it down if sexualized stuff didn’t happen in the locker room.

“Never again” levels of Fitz-countability.

Maybe, maybe, maybe.

 

[NUCat320]

Maybe, maybe, maybe.

I’m not sure what your point is.

People engaged in hazing-type activity for a decade, and nobody communicated via team channels. Nobody on the leadership council told him. Nobody mentioned it in an exit interview. Nobody mentioned it at graduation.

Or, and get this, somebody did, and he didn’t care, but the investigators didn’t find that person.

What we know is something happened, over years. “Dry humping”, verified by dozens.

🙈🙊🙉🙊🙈🙊🙉🙊🙈🙊🙉🙊🙈🙊

I DIDN’T SEE NOTHIN’ AND YOU CAN’T PROVE IT!!!!!!

“It’s on me, well except for that.”

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I’m not sure what your point is.

People engaged in hazing-type activity for a decade, and nobody communicated via team channels. Nobody on the leadership council told him. Nobody mentioned it in an exit interview. Nobody mentioned it at graduation.

Or, and get this, somebody did, and he didn’t care, but the investigators didn’t find that person.

What we know is something happened, over years. “Dry humping”, verified by dozens.

🙈🙊🙉🙊🙈🙊🙉🙊🙈🙊🙉🙊🙈🙊

I DIDN’T SEE NOTHIN’ AND YOU CAN’T PROVE IT!!!!!!

“It’s on me, well except for that.”

Whatever. One side of the story is out.