One problem with our noncon schedule

[hdhntr1]

The Big Ten has seven or eight teams in the tournament every year. And a couple in the NIT. So, the top ten teams are quality. Not all the same quality, but quality.

Let's say NU is in the top ten. That leaves nine Big Ten teams from which to get a quality win.

The three you mention as quality are all in the top ten of the national polls. That leaves six teams that aren't NU, MSU, Purdue or Maryland who will end the season ranked in the top 75 or so. Wins against any of those teams will be quality wins. Of course, the higher up the food chain the win comes, the better the quality.

NU only plays the three teams you mention a cumulative four games. So, there are 14 conference games plus tournament games remaining to get a handful of quality wins. Assuming they don't win one of the four against the top-ten nationally ranked Big Ten teams.

It's plausible if NU continues to get better as the season progresses. But they can't get blown out in conference and they have to avoid stringing together a series of losses.

Not sure we get there this year. And that is the point. If we do not win any against the top 3, what would be considered quality wins? I can think of only 3 other teams that wins against might be considered quality at this point. Indiana, , IA and maybe MI? Who else? Not sure I see the BIG getting more than 5 in then dance this year unless NU makes it.

Just saying we could have our first ever 20-21 win regular season (not including BTT) and not get there. The conference (other than the top) looks that weak. They will probably be back next year but for this year, looks weak.

 

[olshin]

To be fair, he said 20 regular season wins -- if you count the Big Ten Tournament as regular season, we've done it once, in 2010. If you don't, we've never done it.

Here are our non-conference records (excluding postseason games) in the four NIT years:

2009: 9-2, no preseason tournament
2010: 12-1, won Chicago Invitational
2011: 10-1, 2nd place MSG Holiday Festival
2012: 10-2, won Charleston Classic

I don't (hence the original statement) and that 2010 team really was our best shot. They got 19 if I recall.

 

[olshin]

Actually, Carmody won 20 games twice and I think those teams had 11 or 12 nonconference wins with some high quality teams (two preseason tourney wins). That said, your point is well taken. The schedule was crafted to help a young team build confidence. Let's take things as they come. I happen to think the game at DePaul Saturday will be tough. Can remember us winning only one time against them at Alllstate Arena.

Regular season wins ... I think we actually got to 22 in our best year (damn Klay Thompson) ... but my memory could be playing tricks on me.

 

[olshin]

So should posters ask you what topics are appropriate before starting or joining threads?

Well .... yeah!
(I think Virginia nicely summarized my frustration.)

 

[NJCat83588]

Regular season wins ... I think we actually got to 22 in our best year (damn Klay Thompson) ... but my memory could be playing tricks on me.

Your memory plays tricks.

NU only had 17 regular season wins that year (17-12). Won 1 BTT game and 2 NIT games before meeting up with Mr. Thompson.

NU has won 20 total games twice, in 2009-10 and 2010-11. 2009-10 was the high water mark for regular season wins with 19.

 

[olshin]

Your memory plays tricks.

NU only had 17 regular season wins that year (17-12). Won 1 BTT game and 2 NIT games before meeting up with Mr. Thompson.

NU has won 20 total games twice, in 2009-10 and 2010-11. 2009-10 was the high water mark for regular season wins with 19.

It certainly does -- I combined the 19 win season with the loss to Klay and Company. Mr. Thompson is his dad.

 

[Mr. Stupor]

Amen. Enjoy the ride.

About the only gripe one could have is, the home OOC games are pretty unexciting. Which is why many of the ticket holders (and students) haven't shown up. The best of the OOC games (UNC and Mizzou, VaTech and DePaul) have been away from W-R. But there is little Phillips could do about that. Next year the ACC challenge should rotate back to Evanston, DePaul will be in W-R, and hopefully there will be another mid-major home tilt (like a Butler or a UNI or a Marquette).

That's exactly right. The worst part about this schedule is that the home games have been ghost towns. Totally boring. Nobody shows. Who wants to go see that crap? I sure don't. If we schedule crap games like this, people have no good reason to show up. This is entertainment, after all. Who the hell wants to shell out good money to watch Delta State or whaeverthehell that was last night get blown out by NU even when they're playing bad? If I want to see a prearranged blowout, I'd rather see the Globetrotters.

 

[NJCat83588]

That's exactly right. The worst part about this schedule is that the home games have been ghost towns. Totally boring. Nobody shows. Who wants to go see that crap? I sure don't. If we schedule crap games like this, people have no good reason to show up. This is entertainment, after all. Who the hell wants to shell out good money to watch Delta State or whaeverthehell that was last night get blown out by NU even when they're playing bad? If I want to see a prearranged blowout, I'd rather see the Globetrotters.

Paid attendance last night was 5,704. So season ticket holders again voted with their feet and did something other than go to W-R for that game. These games don't hurt BB revenue much, but there is zero juice in the building........

 

[EvanstonCat]

.500 is huge for an NU basketball team based on history. 10-8 ridiculous.

And it's not ridiculous to look at the entire schedule and think that NU get there...10-8...if JVZ comes back and "doing what he's 'posed to do."

NU is going to get better next year and the especially the following two years. But, this may be the best year to pop the balloon.

I'm not sure that is gonna be the case. We will lose Demps, Olah, and JvZ. Those are probably our two best (or at least 2 out of our 3 best) players, and our best reserve. We lose both real bigs, and not sure we have much there next year. A kid that we redshirted this year and a very raw Barrett Benson isn't likely to be the answer, nor is an undersized Gavin Skelly.

I think things change if we can get a quality big like JvZ to come in next year, but otherwise, we may take two steps forward this year (I still am bullish on 10-8 or better in league play and making the NCAA's) and one step back next year.

 

[Catreporter]

Paid attendance last night was 5,704. So season ticket holders again voted with their feet and did something other than go to W-R for that game. These games don't hurt BB revenue much, but there is zero juice in the building........

Just about every BIG school schedules one of the teams in the SWAC. That's how those schools fund their programs. And for the same reason, Chicago State is practically making a tour of the Midwest. They are at Minnesota tonight and at Marquette on Monday. Season tickets are very reasonably priced for NU basketball. 9 BIG games at 30-bucks apiece for purple seats just about equals the price so all the other games are basically free. I often give away some of my preseason games so my friend can take his grandkids. They sold the student seats behind the baskets for the Chi State game and I saw a lot of kids and familiues there. They also had a big girls dance team from a local community entertaining at halftime. The youngsters love the scoreboard and the t=shirt toss, et al and there's plenty of kid energy in the building. Hopefully, they are creating a new generation of fans during the holidays.

 

[JournCat]

I'm not sure that is gonna be the case. We will lose Demps, Olah, and JvZ. Those are probably our two best (or at least 2 out of our 3 best) players, and our best reserve. We lose both real bigs, and not sure we have much there next year. A kid that we redshirted this year and a very raw Barrett Benson isn't likely to be the answer, nor is an undersized Gavin Skelly.

I think things change if we can get a quality big like JvZ to come in next year, but otherwise, we may take two steps forward this year (I still am bullish on 10-8 or better in league play and making the NCAA's) and one step back next year.

Absolutely agreed. There is no one on this team ready to take Tre's role. I would expect some regression next year on his loss alone.

 

[Medill90]

I'm not sure that is gonna be the case. We will lose Demps, Olah, and JvZ. Those are probably our two best (or at least 2 out of our 3 best) players, and our best reserve. We lose both real bigs, and not sure we have much there next year. A kid that we redshirted this year and a very raw Barrett Benson isn't likely to be the answer, nor is an undersized Gavin Skelly.

I think things change if we can get a quality big like JvZ to come in next year, but otherwise, we may take two steps forward this year (I still am bullish on 10-8 or better in league play and making the NCAA's) and one step back next year.

Or, NU goes with the shorter, faster line up and plays man-to-man three quarters court the way Collins wants and has recruited for three years. Can't say how effective Benson is going to be as an underclassman, but he has nice size. Haywood reports that Pardon is a stud. Less offense out of the post after this year but I'll venture more rebounds.

Law back and RI coming in next year improve the team versus this year. NU will be much, much better around the basket.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Or, NU goes with the shorter, faster line up and plays man-to-man three quarters court the way Collins wants and has recruited for three years. Can't say how effective Benson is going to be as an underclassman, but he has nice size. Haywood reports that Pardon is a stud. Less offense out of the post after this year but I'll venture more rebounds.

Law back and RI coming in next year improve the team versus this year. NU will be much, much better around the basket.

I don't think we will be as athletic as the flying Illini of old, and unless you are at that level, I don't think you can get away with weakness in the post in this league. We'll see. Best outcome is Collins is able to snag another transfer Big, hopefully a step up from JvZ as JvZ was from Kreisburg. Someone who can come in and start, so we aren't so reliant on our young'uns.

 

[NJCat83588]

Just about every BIG school schedules one of the teams in the SWAC. That's how those schools fund their programs. And for the same reason, Chicago State is practically making a tour of the Midwest. They are at Minnesota tonight and at Marquette on Monday. Season tickets are very reasonably priced for NU basketball. 9 BIG games at 30-bucks apiece for purple seats just about equals the price so all the other games are basically free. I often give away some of my preseason games so my friend can take his grandkids. They sold the student seats behind the baskets for the Chi State game and I saw a lot of kids and familiues there. They also had a big girls dance team from a local community entertaining at halftime. The youngsters love the scoreboard and the t=shirt toss, et al and there's plenty of kid energy in the building. Hopefully, they are creating a new generation of fans during the holidays.

The problem isn't scheduling 1 SWAC school after exams. The problem is that there are zero interesting OOC home games this season. None. No home juice until the Big 10 season starts with a bang against MD.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

The problem isn't scheduling 1 SWAC school after exams. The problem is that there are zero interesting OOC home games this season. None. No home juice until the Big 10 season starts with a bang against MD.

I thought the Columbia game was definitely interesting. A lot of people picked us to lost that one...

 

[DocCatsFan]

I thought the Columbia game was definitely interesting. A lot of people picked us to lost that one...

Yes, that was the one interesting preseason game.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Yes, that was the one interesting preseason game.

You didn't find the VT or NC game interesting at all, huh? This isn't the first time we've had super weak preseason schedule. Don't seem to recall you complaining previously...

 

[NJCat83588]

You didn't find the VT or NC game interesting at all, huh? This isn't the first time we've had super weak preseason schedule. Don't seem to recall you complaining previously...

The point is, neither of those games were at home. UNC, Missouri, VaTech, and Depaul were games against major conference opponents but unfortunately they were all away games.

 

[thewildcat2011]

You didn't find the VT or NC game interesting at all, huh? This isn't the first time we've had super weak preseason schedule. Don't seem to recall you complaining previously...

Yeah, this is definitely a Carmody thing and you should definitely make it one. You guys are fricking ridiculous with that crap.

The home non-con schedule HAS BEEN BRUTAL. So boring to actually be at the game. I always love watching the 'Cats play and I've been at every one of the games, but it hasn't been a great experience. Sorry...that's just the objective truth.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Yeah, this is definitely a Carmody thing and you should definitely make it one. You guys are fricking ridiculous with that crap.

??? Look in the mirror pal...

As I said before...we've had some serious crap schedules in the past, too. That's an objective fact. But no time like the present to bitch about it, eh??

 

[thewildcat2011]

??? Look in the mirror pal...

As I said before...we've had some serious crap schedules in the past, too. That's an objective fact. But no time like the present to bitch about it, eh??

No, I will not let you turn this BS on me. This is all you and your infantile desire to keep a dumbass grudge going.

People DID bitch about it in the past. We discussed for years how crappy our non-con was. We were so excited when we started playing in some preseason tournaments. You're not the only one who has been around here a while and you're not the only one who remembers things, so how about taking a sock and shoving it. At least in the past we had at least one or two interesting games to look forward to attending, this year is a complete waste from an entertainment standpoint.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

No, I will not let you turn this BS on me. This is all you and your infantile desire to keep a dumbass grudge going.

People DID bitch about it in the past. We discussed for years how crappy our non-con was. We were so excited when we started playing in some preseason tournaments. You're not the only one who has been around here a while and you're not the only one who remembers things, so how about taking a sock and shoving it. At least in the past we had at least one or two interesting games to look forward to attending, this year is a complete waste from an entertainment standpoint.

Lol We're 9-1, without one of the players we were seriously counting on, getting a few nibbles from the national media...but one thing I've learned, if someone is determined to complain, they'll complain. And when you look at WHO'S overtly complaining (you, Doc, Styre, among a couple others) it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. When someone wants to bitch, they'll bitch. Why not just enjoy the ride? We've have a lot of cardiac moments already pre-season, did you sleep through those? Or does it just bother you that we're winning?

 

[thewildcat2011]

Lol We're 9-1, without one of the players we were seriously counting on, getting a few nibbles from the national media...but one thing I've learned, if someone is determined to complain, they'll complain. And when you look at WHO'S overtly complaining (you, Doc, Styre, among a couple others) it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. When someone wants to bitch, they'll bitch. Why not just enjoy the ride? We've have a lot of cardiac moments already pre-season, did you sleep through those? Or does it just bother you that we're winning?

LOLOLOL You're barking up the wrong tree there, Sally. I don't give a flying **** about Carmody anymore...that name hasn't been relevant on this board in 3 years at this point and I haven't brought him up once other than to point out how absolutely ridiculous you sound when you play the: "well you weren't complaining before...(look at me I'm not man enough to actually say what I want to say, ie that I think Doc is still upset about losing his butt buddy Carmody, but I'll sure put in enough ellipses to make it super annoying because I'm 12 years old)" card.

I'm not complaining...if you actually read my first post in this thread, it's that I don't really care how "weak" this schedule is in regards to being the tourney. That's irrelevant because I think we're well on track to achieve the two marks of success that I think are crucial to this program this year: 1. Be in at least the NIT; 2. Win more than 6 conference games. Our schedule is fine for the NIT if we win more than 6 B1G games. I'm perfectly happy with it.

What the home schedule isn't, though, is fun or entertaining. Aside from just the sheer joy of watching the 'Cats in action (which all of us have), there's just not a lot of steak there.

 

[DocCatsFan]

The point is, neither of those games were at home. UNC, Missouri, VaTech, and Depaul were games against major conference opponents but unfortunately they were all away games.

Yes, thank you for making clear what should have been obvious to anyone with a brain. The discussion was about interesting games at home and why the place is empty with no energy.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

LOLOLOL You're barking up the wrong tree there, Sally. I don't give a flying **** about Carmody anymore...that name hasn't been relevant on this board in 3 years at this point and I haven't brought him up once other than to point out how absolutely ridiculous you sound when you play the: "well you weren't complaining before...(look at me I'm not man enough to actually say what I want to say, ie that I think Doc is still upset about losing his butt buddy Carmody, but I'll sure put in enough ellipses to make it super annoying because I'm 12 years old)" card.

I'm not complaining...if you actually read my first post in this thread, it's that I don't really care how "weak" this schedule is in regards to being the tourney. That's irrelevant because I think we're well on track to achieve the two marks of success that I think are crucial to this program this year: 1. Be in at least the NIT; 2. Win more than 6 conference games. Our schedule is fine for the NIT if we win more than 6 B1G games. I'm perfectly happy with it.

What the home schedule isn't, though, is fun or entertaining. Aside from just the sheer joy of watching the 'Cats in action (which all of us have), there's just not a lot of steak there.

You enjoy putting words in others' mouths, no? Why don't you take a look back and see who brought up Carmody in this thread. Oh snap... As I said earlier, look in the mirror, pal. yeah, don't you give a flying **** about Carmody. If you're not going to be honest, don't expect me to take you seriously.

https://northwestern.forums.rivals.com/threads/quincy-game-thread.12707/page-2#post-136814

You focus on the schedule, I'll just be happy we're 9-1.

 

[thewildcat2011]

You enjoy putting words in others' mouths, no? Why don't you take a look back and see who brought up Carmody in this thread. Oh snap... As I said earlier, look in the mirror, pal. yeah, don't you give a flying **** about Carmody. If you're not going to be honest, don't expect me to take you seriously.

https://northwestern.forums.rivals.com/threads/quincy-game-thread.12707/page-2#post-136814

You focus on the schedule, I'll just be happy we're 9-1.

Hahah...that's what you came up with? Beautiful.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Hahah...that's what you came up with? Beautiful.

That's what I thought...

 

[thewildcat2011]

YOU GOT ME!!! Or, that was an inside joke between friends who sat with each other at the game...I dunno, whatever seems more plausible.

Feel free to actually read my response. A clear joke of a post with a wink to a friend I sat with at the game...that's all you have?

Say...were you at the scrimmage? I don't think I saw you there. Maybe you're not the best person to speak on the level of entertainment and energy in the home schedule? I dunno, just a wondering.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Say...were you at the scrimmage? I don't think I saw you there. Maybe you're not the best person to speak on the level of entertainment and energy in the home schedule? I dunno, just a wondering.

Nope...too far to travel from VA. As I said, there's already been enough cardiac moments for me this preseason. I'm already nervous about DePaul. But honestly, especially with the injury to Law and breaking in a couple new guys, this schedule isn't all that bad. The last two games were designed to be cakewalks because they can't practice much during finals week...so you don't want a losable game there. There's been some enjoyable games this preseason, and I always enjoy winning. Those who are overtly complaining about the schedule (not the occasional "it could have been better") are honestly just looking for something to whine about or intentionally trying to dim the hopes of the fans that are enjoying being 9-1 because they don't like CCC, Phillips, or whatever weird reason they have. It's like those that complained during the football season as we won one defensive close battle after another, because they don't like Fitz.

 

[Styre]

I'm not complaining...if you actually read my first post in this thread, it's that I don't really care how "weak" this schedule is in regards to being the tourney. That's irrelevant because I think we're well on track to achieve the two marks of success that I think are crucial to this program this year: 1. Be in at least the NIT; 2. Win more than 6 conference games. Our schedule is fine for the NIT if we win more than 6 B1G games. I'm perfectly happy with it.

What the home schedule isn't, though, is fun or entertaining. Aside from just the sheer joy of watching the 'Cats in action (which all of us have), there's just not a lot of steak there.

This is almost exactly my position as well. My schedule discussion has been confined almost entirely to discussions of how it impacts our NCAA tournament chances -- if someone wants to interpret saying "an easy schedule makes it harder to make the tournament" as some sort of grand complaint about the program, well, I can't stop them.

And this home non-con schedule has been a grind to sit through at times. I'm headed up to Rosemont this weekend; hopefully the higher level of competition will lead to a more entertaining game.

 

[rwhitney014]

Feel free to actually read my response. A clear joke of a post with a wink to a friend I sat with at the game...that's all you have?

You have friends?

Anyway, the Chicago State team that we crushed is beating Minnesota right now in the Barn. Ohio State's tied in the second half at home against a bad NIU team; the Buckeyes are trying to avoid their 6th loss already, and NIU hasn't beaten a Power 5 team in 10 years. Penn State lost to Radford and Duquesne, and barely beat Louisiana-Monroe and Bucknell. Illinois' average margin of victory against North Dakota State, UIC, Yale and those pesky Chicago State kids is 4, and that's ignoring the five games they've actually lost. That's not getting into the problems that Wisconsin, Nebraska, and even decent teams in Michigan, Indiana and Iowa have been having.

Yes, this has been a pretty boring home noncon schedule. I've been at every game so far but one, and it's not great. But in a really odd preseason, we're at least winning games. That's all the team can do. The mathematical formulas will work themselves out.

 

[Styre]

Yes, this has been a pretty boring home noncon schedule. I've been at every game so far but one, and it's not great. But in a really odd preseason, we're at least winning games. That's all the team can do. The mathematical formulas will work themselves out.

Has anyone here argued otherwise?

 

[rwhitney014]

Has anyone here argued otherwise?

I'm just saying, there's a pretty obvious middle ground to acknowledge between "this schedule sucks! How are we ever going to make the Tournament? Thanks, Carmody!" and "winnnnnnnnnnnnnnsssssssss." As a fan spending money on tickets and trucking up to Evanston for games, I'd like to see a higher caliber of opponent. But I'm also, for once, happy to be looking down in the standings at a bunch of Big Ten teams, especially in a year where teams are losing to the type boring squads we're playing, too.

 

[DocCatsFan]

Nope...too far to travel from VA. As I said, there's already been enough cardiac moments for me this preseason. I'm already nervous about DePaul. But honestly, especially with the injury to Law and breaking in a couple new guys, this schedule isn't all that bad. The last two games were designed to be cakewalks because they can't practice much during finals week...so you don't want a losable game there. There's been some enjoyable games this preseason, and I always enjoy winning. Those who are overtly complaining about the schedule (not the occasional "it could have been better") are honestly just looking for something to whine about or intentionally trying to dim the hopes of the fans that are enjoying being 9-1 because they don't like CCC, Phillips, or whatever weird reason they have. It's like those that complained during the football season as we won one defensive close battle after another, because they don't like Fitz.

This has been your schtick all along. Anything that is not completely effusive anybody has to say immediately gets attacked as some sort of affront to CCC or the program. I've posted that our schedule is objectively amongst the top 4 easiest schedules in all of college basketball of the power conferences. That's the truth plain and simple. There are a couple of consequences of that. One is that we have a fantastic record so far-- everyone is happy about that. Another is that it is going to make getting to the tournament almost impossible-- that might be ok since we are probably not quite to that level yet anyway. The third thing is that it is making for some really bad basketball games. The number of butts in the seats for these games might be indicative of that.

I think everyone (except you) can agree that nobody's posts has anything whatsoever to do with some ancient axe to grind. You really need to get past that.

 

[thewildcat2011]

You have friends?

Not really

The one you missed, and what I believe prompted this thread, was actually probably the worst of the year. Very low energy in the building and by the team. Deathly quiet at times.

I may be a little sensitive because of a snarky "this is big ten basketball?" uttered by some smarmy dude behind me who was obviously there for the first time with some older STHs.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Has anyone here argued otherwise?

Yes, actually. One of your Twitter buddies thinks playing these games (even if we're winning them) is a total waste of time.

 

[Styre]

Yes, actually. One of your Twitter buddies thinks playing these games (even if we're winning them) is a total waste of time.

This must be a new definition of the word "here" with which I am unfamiliar.

 

[IGNORE2]

Lol We're 9-1, without one of the players we were seriously counting on, getting a few nibbles from the national media...but one thing I've learned, if someone is determined to complain, they'll complain. And when you look at WHO'S overtly complaining (you, Doc, Styre, among a couple others) it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. When someone wants to bitch, they'll bitch. Why not just enjoy the ride? We've have a lot of cardiac moments already pre-season, did you sleep through those? Or does it just bother you that we're winning?

And others consume obnoxious portions of purple koolaid. Va - your schtick is old. When your substantive argument blows, you go after the poster. Anyone want to guess what he has for a response to me?

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

This must be a new definition of the word "here" with which I am unfamiliar.

Sure. But the point remains people *are* arguing otherwise...

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Anyone want to guess what he has for a response to me?

Did you guess an old-fashioned eye-roll?......