Question for Collins Supporters

[catsattackfor3]

You do understand the difference in salary from coaching in the MVC and the Big Ten, right?

You do understand Moser is a multi millionaire regardless of his coaching situation don' t you? Moser is wealthy from inheritance of his father's business. So much so his family donated over a million dollars to the Loyola University medical Center BEFORE he became head coach there paving the way for his hire. He doesn't need the money otherwise he would be at St. John's now which offered him last year.

 

[GatoLouco]

You do understand the difference in salary from coaching in the MVC and the Big Ten, right?

Mike Anderson reportedly makes $2.6M and he turned down St. John's. In my mind, the only way Moser considers NU is if the Chicago area is that important to him.

Hey I'll be watching Drake/LUC (x2) this weekend.

 

[mickbula]

I think Dr. Evil stole our mojo the year after that ncaa birth. The question is...can ccc get it back before it is gone forever??

 

[willycat]

You do understand Moser is a multi millionaire regardless of his coaching situation don' t you? Moser is wealthy from inheritance of his father's business. So much so his family donated over a million dollars to the Loyola University medical Center BEFORE he became head coach there paving the way for his hire. He doesn't need the money otherwise he would be at St. John's now which offered him last year.

Didn't know that. Wonder if he's donating his salary back to the school, like a former POTUS supposedly did.

 

[catsattackfor3]

Didn't know that. Wonder if he's donating his salary back to the school, like a former POTUS supposedly did.

That is great. Moser's family donation has paid off well for him. After getting fired at Illinois State and being an assistant at St.Louis who was really ever going to take a chance on hiring him as a D1 head coach especially at the level of a Loyola. You do not see guys fail at a Missouri Valley level type of job go to an Atlantic 10 school as an assistant and then get hired at another Missouri Valley job.

 

[Sec.112]

Really who has improved beyond what you would expect from natural yearly growth? I’ll patiently wait for any answers lol

You don't think Greer has vastly improved?

You think Young is just a natural talent?

You don't think Kopp is more consistent? You think he was acceptable off the dribble last year?

And Nance was a really awesome player when he got here, right?

Yes, Buie has the ability but needs to be desperately reigned in somehow.

Audige has no clue about shot selection.

And both Kopp and Nance have room to improve.

But to say no one improved compared to that garbage last year is just not looking.

 

[Sec.112]

Look, this is very simple. Chris Collins is paid a lot of money to win basketball games ...

Obviously it's not very simple. He's paid a very average salary for a B10 coach.

 

[Sec.112]

Six games remaining, right? Let's say they lose all six and it's pretty obvious the team has given up on him for the last three. Yea, you have to get rid of him.

But let's say the Cats lose all six by a total of ten points. Part of me says you bring him back for a prove-it year. You may owe it to him because of the tourney. This is only his second core group and he deserves to see it through the end. And I go back to the point that everyone wants to ignore: this is an ok team by NU standards in a b*tch of a competitive league.

On the other hand, I'm having a harder and harder time believing my own bullsh*t. He has openly advocated letting his guys shoot at their own will since he walked in the door. And he's paying the price.

Also, as I've said in the past, I'm not a believer AT ALL in teams that rely strictly on the 3 to win games. And that's what this has obviously become.

In the end, I find the end-of-the-season conversation a little stupid. Who exactly is going to fire him, and hire the new coach?

Let's say NU gets someone in here in the next 20-something days. That takes awfully big cahones to dump someone two weeks into your new gig.

If you dislike Collins so much that you'd advocate dumping him without an AD, you shouldn't even be involved in the discussion.

 

[rwhitney014]

Now why would Moser even think of taking this job? He has a top 2 or 3 job in his conference. Here he would have the 11-14 best job. Unless he just has his heart set on taking a Big Ten job, any Big Ten job, then its a no go. Moser more likely would pursue a Minnesota with a built in recruiting base than here.

There's nothing wrong with being Greg Kampe or Bob McKillop and coaching at the same low/mid-major forever, but if Moser harbors higher aspirations and we offer him the job, it's a no-brainer. Moving into the Big Ten is a big leap, and being able to do that without uprooting your family and without losing the impact of the local recruiting relationships he's developed would be a good thing for him.

The better question for now is whether we would have interest and whether he would be a target if do have an opening. The first big question to ask in that scenario is whether our new AD will have particular connections that may identify certain candidates, like the way Danny White brought Josh Heupel with him to Tennessee from UCF.

 

[peatymeanis]

Obviously it's not very simple. He's paid a very average salary for a B10 coach.

His salary has a much longer term than your average B10 coach and thus includes much more guaranteed money. And your average B10 coach has a team this year that is ranked in the top 25. So, I don't know what your point is.

 

[willycat]

His salary has a much longer term than your average B10 coach and thus includes much more guaranteed money. And your average B10 coach has a team this year that is ranked in the top 25. So, I don't know what your point is.

Guess he's saying it might be hard for NU to find someone better, especially with no AD. Also CC has four more years on his current contract. NU is not known to buy out coaches with multiple years remaining.

 

[CatJones]

Did coach BC ever have this long of a contract?

 

[peatymeanis]

Guess he's saying it might be hard for NU to find someone better, especially with no AD. Also CC has four more years on his current contract. NU is not known to buy out coaches with multiple years remaining.

You got all of that from a single sentence saying his salary was average for a B10 coach?

 

[Sec.112]

His salary has a much longer term than your average B10 coach and thus includes much more guaranteed money. And your average B10 coach has a team this year that is ranked in the top 25. So, I don't know what your point is.

So let me guess that we're going to hold it against him that - according to your view - he's overpaid due to the length of the contract, but we're going to ignore that he was a value (lowest paid in the B10)when he was successful.

The point is that money has nothing to do with the decision. His salary is average at best, especially when you consider the tax on a career-killing job.

It's simply the cost of doing business in the B10, and ESPECIALLY at NU.

 

[peatymeanis]

So let me guess that we're going to hold it against him that - according to your view - he's overpaid due to the length of the contract, but we're going to ignore that he was a value (lowest paid in the B10)when he was successful.

The point is that money has nothing to do with the decision. His salary is average at best, especially when you consider the tax on a career-killing job.

It's simply the cost of doing business in the B10, and ESPECIALLY at NU.

Hahahaha that’s such a crock of shit. Boohoo poor Chris Collins, he’ll only have made $30+ million dollars the last 10 years

 

[Turk]

Is there any amount of losing this year that would make you think that we need to change prior to next season? Losing 10 in a row? 13, 16? I would imagine that the list of P5 teams this year that lost 10 conference games in a row is pretty small, so we are in rare company. Styre or Gatolouco who post with actual data can correct me if I'm wrong . . .

But for those of you who don't think it matters if Collins wins another game, what is the reasoning for staying the course? Admissions are too tough and not Collins's fault, inabiity to find someone better to take the job, belief in incoming recruits, rewarding Collins for historic heights with the NCAA appearance, conference is historically good so can't expect NU to compete, COVID makes this a mulligan?

He has done a great job in graduating his players I thought? As far as games, we have been competitive, we just lose at the FT line. I think it's too early to discuss the future with Collins. Our program is about on par with where it has been over the past 30 years. It's just tough to get the best players to come here. Do you think it matters if a school has dumb girls? These are 18 year old guys, man.

 

[Sec.112]

Hahahaha that’s such a crock of shit. Boohoo poor Chris Collins, he’ll only have made $30+ million dollars the last 10 years

Maybe if you read it more thoroughly and used your brain and your heart, you might feel differently. This kind of statement from an NU grad (I presume) is what is the most sorry thing.

Excuse me from stealing from you, SDaka. But no need to re-invent the wheel.

 

[SDakaGordie]

For some additional perspective from CT: Jim Calhoun directly turned down the HC job at NU in 1986 because he said he could not win at NU. I’m pretty sure he was talking first about our academic standards, and then maybe all the other issues at the time (history, facilities, lack of girls, etc.). It’s a ridiculously tough gig! What therefore matters is perspective and expectations when you are considering someone’s performance (and I’m not an HR professional). Let’s get some and leave Collins alone (or better yet even support him) for a while longer to do some more good things that no one in the history of NU BB has ever done.

 

[peatymeanis]

For some additional perspective from CT: Jim Calhoun directly turned down the HC job at NU in 1986 because he said he could not win at NU. I’m pretty sure he was talking first about our academic standards, and then maybe all the other issues at the time (history, facilities, lack of girls, etc.). It’s a ridiculously tough gig! What therefore matters is perspective and expectations when you are considering someone’s performance (and I’m not an HR professional). Let’s get some and leave Collins alone (or better yet even support him) for a while longer to do some more good things that no one in the history of NU BB has ever done.

I didn't realize we were still living in 1986.

Fitz must be Vince Lombardi reincarnated if he was able to make it work with football! And Gary Barnett must be Jesus himself with what he was able to do.

 

[GatoLouco]

Obviously it's not very simple. He's paid a very average salary for a B10 coach.

So if I hire someone and pay them a fair wage they’re entitled to suck with no consequences?

 

[catfans5]

Maybe if you read it more thoroughly and used your brain and your heart, you might feel differently. This kind of statement from an NU grad (I presume) is what is the most sorry thing.

Excuse me from stealing from you, SDaka. But no need to re-invent the wheel.

I agree with you on the improvement of the players. Unlike CappyNu, I can't figure out all the statistics, but base some of my contentions on what I see (My wife tells me I need glasses) and what I can find on the internet. You have posted on this site for a long time with some good insight and there are some questions that I have for you.

1) Rebounding. A beef with BC was rebounding, either offensively or defensively. I can understand not hitting the offensive boards to protect the transition defense (Cats are 306 nationally) , but one item that excited me with CC was, it seemed to me, there was an emphasis on rebounding. Currently, NU ranks 248th nationally in overall rebounding and 258th in rebounding margin. It seems that we lose that battle every game. (I expect someone correct me) It seems to me that the team that loses the rebounding battles loses the game. Does this concern you? Is this lack of rebounding on CC?

2) No star. We have 3 players that average 12 to 13 points/game. The Cats do not have a player that can create their own shot or is a go to player. Kopp or Nance cannot create their own shots. I don't see that magic occurring within a year. Audige and Boo? Over the years, the Cats always had someone. On a bad team, we had Craig Moore. Further, you had player development which led to some players becoming that guy, such as Tre Demps or Drew Crawford. Mac had it before arriving in Evanston. I just don't see it with this team. Whose responsibility is it to recruit and develop those players? Does this concern you?

3) Defense. Northwestern is ranked 211th for defending the 3 pt field goal, 234th for scoring defense and 170th for field goal percentage defense. Does this concern you? How do you explain this? Is this coaching?

4) I think I saw someone post three seasons with 10 game losing streaks. Cats have 6 games left and I see a long shot chance to win 2 games to get to five wins or 5 and 14. I see some say we may have a chance to become a tourney team next year. This means getting to at least 10 and 10? Do you see that as realistic?

 

[NUera]

Statements rarely heard:
- "Wow, that coach put that individual player in the best position to succeed"

This board has been clamoring for Ryan Young to not only get more run, but more touches, since he only averages about 5 FGA per game, shoots 60% FG, and often seems underutilized. Yesterday Collins recognized IU’s lack of interior defense and made a point to force feed Young the ball and have him be aggressive. Young took 11 shots within 3 feet of the basket. He made 5 — a below average night.

Same thing with Audige. We say he’s the only one who can create his own shot. We get upset when Buie hogs the ball in the clutch instead of giving it to him. So twice Collins refuses to call timeout and instead lets Audige go 1 v 1 without giving the defense time to get set. That’s aggressive and shows trust in your playmaker. Audige failed to covert at the end and missed a FT that also would have sealed the deal.

Miller Kopp went 2-8. He went 2-9 the previous game, and shooting 30% over his last 3 contests.

You can scheme all you want, but at some point the players need to show up.

 

[NUera]

So if I hire someone and pay them a fair wage they’re entitled to suck with no consequences?

Nah. But if you hire 13 guys to do a job and 12 of them fail to live up to expectations, that’s probably an organizational failure. And when the 13th guy finally manages to accomplish the organization’s stated goal but can only do it once out of 10 tries, that’s probably also an organizational failure. And when people steadfastly believe that the solution is to fire him and hire a 14th guy to do the same job with basically the same working situation, that’s *definitely* a problem.

But whatever. It’s just a game and we all should have more important things to worry about.

 

[GatoLouco]

Nah. But if you hire 13 guys to do a job and 12 of them fail to live up to expectations, that’s probably an organizational failure. And when the 13th guy finally manages to accomplish the organization’s stated goal but can only do it once out of 10 tries, that’s probably also an organizational failure. And when people steadfastly believe that the solution is to fire him and hire a 14th guy to do the same job with basically the same working situation, that’s *definitely* a problem.

But whatever. It’s just a game and we all should have more important things to worry about.

So he can suck. Got it

 

[NUera]

So he can suck. Got it

Lol with insight like this we’re gonna be mediocre forever.

 

[go cats go]

As far as games, we have been competitive, we just lose at the FT line.

No. We had a 6-game stretch during which we lost by an AVERAGE of 18 points. We don't only lose in the final 2 minutes...but we do that, too.

I do think that Collins is the right guy for the job in most ways. But Phase 2 has gone pretty badly in terms of point guards. After the Lathon revoked scholarship, Collins was forced to use that scholarship on Greer (who had planned on spending another year in prep school). I like Greer just fine as a 9th/10th guy and backup guard as a junior, but it's not an overstatement to suggest Collins could have gotten a better point guard with an available scholarship--just not at that exact moment a few months before the season started. And then Collins sort of bet the farm on Buie, who has been much more bad than good since coming to NU. With basically only one point guard on the team, I think this qualifies as a big miss. The thing that causes me the most exasperation has always been Collins tolerating his teams taking terrible shots. ("I was a gunslinger myself." Belch!) And nobody takes worse shots than Boo Buie. This is a terrible player/coach combination.

With no point guard recruited for next season, I am wondering if Collins will try to find one in the transfer market. This season, I don't mind him giving Aldrich a little bit more of a lead guard role.

 

[GatoLouco]

Lol with insight like this we’re gonna be mediocre forever.

What else you need? That the organization invested in the hundreds of millions to address some “failures”? That expectations are, regardless, so low that winning 5 or 6 games would be enough to quiet a lot of us down? You pick and choose your context to fit your instincts regarding Collins. Because ultimately the numbers don’t back you up. The most amazing number is that his record is worse than BC’s. Oh but he made the tournament, bla bla bla.

 

[Styre]

Nah. But if you hire 13 guys to do a job and 12 of them fail to live up to expectations, that’s probably an organizational failure. And when the 13th guy finally manages to accomplish the organization’s stated goal but can only do it once out of 10 tries, that’s probably also an organizational failure. And when people steadfastly believe that the solution is to fire him and hire a 14th guy to do the same job with basically the same working situation, that’s *definitely* a problem.

What if, during the 13th guy's tenure, the organization suddenly invested hundreds of millions of dollars into the product and actually turned it into something comparable to its peers? Would, perhaps, the working situation faced by the 14th guy be different from the working situation faced by the first 13?

 

[NUera]

What if, during the 13th guy's tenure, the organization suddenly invested hundreds of millions of dollars into the product and actually turned it into something comparable to its peers? Would, perhaps, the working situation faced by the 14th guy be different from the working situation faced by the first 13?

This is a valid question. Only time will tell.

 

[Sec.112]

So if I hire someone and pay them a fair wage they’re entitled to suck with no consequences?

a) When the money argument is made, it's ALWAYS characterized that Collins is highly paid - especially in the cheapass NU community. In the scope of B10 coaches, he's not even close to highly paid.

If you're one of those people who considers him highly paid because your maximum potential earnings are $200K a year, I don't even want to have that discussion. There's are maybe six people who want your job, and nobody is discussing it on a message board.

b) I'll let you read again anything I wrote in the last 12 hours. Then you can decide if I'm arguing there should be no consequences for the way he's coaching.

 

[Sec.112]

... 1) Rebounding ... It seems to me that the team that loses the rebounding battles loses the game. Does this concern you? Is this lack of rebounding on CC?

2) No star ... Kopp or Nance cannot create their own shots ... Audige and Boo? .. On a bad team, we had Craig Moore. Further, you had player development which led to some players becoming that guy, such as Tre Demps or Drew Crawford ... Whose responsibility is it to recruit and develop those players? Does this concern you?

3) Defense. ... Does this concern you? How do you explain this? Is this coaching?

4) ... I see a long shot chance to win 2 games to get to five wins or 5 and 14. I see some say we may have a chance to become a tourney team next year. This means getting to at least 10 and 10? Do you see that as realistic?

LOL, as I read your first question, my thought was, "There's not much on this team that doesn't concern me." So that gives you an overview of the remaining answers. But since you asked ...

1) Let's put it this way. I think you can rebound in this system. Does he have the guys to do it? Obviously not.

I offered the example of Matt Painter this week. One of the reasons I know he's successful is that he knows to have a big front line - the huge guy in the middle year after year, and some 6-8ish bulk next to him.

Collins is forever in search of the Euro guy - the stretch 4 who can shoot from outside and a lean-ish big man who can run the court. I think that's a BIG problem with his approach, and it reduces the concentration on rebounding and defense.

2) I disagree that Kopp, Buie and Audige can't create their own shot. I think Kopp has evolved into a stronger player in that area, but he doesn't do it enough/get open/get the ball enough.

Buie and Audige can create their own shot, but: a) They're horrible decisionmakers; b) I'd be surprised if every locker room in the B10 doesn't know their shot is going up when they're in the lane. They're HORRIBLE at sharing the ball while Kopp is camped out there all day.

I'd argue all day that Moore and Demps were much better.

But yes, Collins need to develop these aspects of their game, and you'd think we would have seen soemthing better by now.

3) How does EVERY team lighting it up from 3 not concern you?

Somebody out here has offered the theory that what has REALLY changed since the tournament is the loss of Baldwin coaching defense. That's the theory I'm starting to buy.

4) If you told me next year was more like a usual B10 season, i could buy 10-10.

I think I'm getting the rep as a Collins guy. So be it.

The way these guys are headed I assume they're going to lose the last six games. If that happens, you won't see me out here barking if he gets dumped by a new AD. Most of what's happening speaks for itself, and it really doesn't need the exaggeration it's getting.

 

[peatymeanis]

a) When the money argument is made, it's ALWAYS characterized that Collins is highly paid - especially in the cheapass NU community. In the scope of B10 coaches, he's not even close to highly paid.

Collins is highly paid relative to his results. An average paid coach should deliver average results or thereabouts. That logic continues to escape you. Almost everyone on here seems to think the administrators also agree that he’s highly paid, given that everyone likes to cite his hefty buyout as a reason he will not or should not be fired. If he was on a cheapass contract, why are people worried about the buyout?

 

[TheC]

While wins and losses are important and trips to the postseason are the ultimate goal, for me, the main indictment against Collins is that when I think on his tenure, there were only two years that were actually fun to watch. Win or lose, the tourney year was a blast and the year before was pretty fun too. But I would argue every other year has been miserable.

Do any of you guys still truly look forward to watching an NU game this year? It's not just that we're losing, but how we lose. We see the same crap over and over. Bad defense with what seems to be a real lack of fight. Horrible rebounding. Missed shot after missed shot. Appalling decisions by our ballhandlers. Inability to do the little things to close games down the stretch such that even if we're in a ballgame, we all know what is coming.

Other than that little mirage to start the BIG campaign this season, it has not been fun to watch NU basketball since that tournament here in CT early in the season following the NCAA year where things started to fall apart for good.

Some of you are optimistic about next year when Kopp and Nance are seniors. Why? What do you really think is going to change in one year? We'll hear those same great stories of how hard Miller has worked in the offseason and how much better he'll be only to see him once again blanketed all over the court with an inability to get open. We'll see Nance show those same brief flashes of a talented shooting guard in a 6'-10" body, but again fail to see a 6'-10" guy do the things you need your 6'10" guy to do - like rebound and defend the paint. Is Greer the senior who is going to step up and be the star we need? What is it that you think this group of rising seniors will do that is any different from what we've already seen??

It's just depressing. At least making a change offers a chance at hope - even if it doesn't pan out.

 

[GatoLouco]

a) When the money argument is made, it's ALWAYS characterized that Collins is highly paid - especially in the cheapass NU community. In the scope of B10 coaches, he's not even close to highly paid.

If you're one of those people who considers him highly paid because your maximum potential earnings are $200K a year, I don't even want to have that discussion. There's are maybe six people who want your job, and nobody is discussing it on a message board.

b) I'll let you read again anything I wrote in the last 12 hours. Then you can decide if I'm arguing there should be no consequences for the way he's coaching.

Question wasn't directed at you, even if it might look that way.

It was just quoting you to pose what I believe is a relevant question for everyone.

I do understand he earns what you expect a coach to earn in the B1G. If you calculate earnings per win, he is wildly overpaid. But that is not exactly fair when hiring someone. It is, though, a number to ponder when evaluating a coach's tenure.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

He gets until the right coaching prospect turns up and his contract buyout makes sense if we don’t at least sniff the tourney next year or don’t see all the pieces in place to make a run at it the year after.

I don’t want to move on from Collins just because “the standards should be higher”. He has added a lot of talent depth to NU that I haven’t seen before. Unfortunately in the B1G you need better talent depth than just “better than NU has had” This is his first head coaching gig. Collins and staff recruit and develop well. They normally play good defensively. They have problems putting the ball through the net. Offense runs stagnet with out a guard playing really well. (When Buie or Bmac played well we won or kept it super close) I still think he can build Northwestern up. That being said if there’s a no brainer hire after next season and the team hasn’t shown what it needs to it’d make sense. If the incoming freshman look like the potential core of a tourney team that also could factor into the decision.

I don’t any program should make to rash of decisions this season in hiring or firing because yes this season is crazy for everyone. Keep in mind it’s not just the physical issues of covid that they’re dealing with but the mental situation of young men 18-22 year old. That’s a player by player case and can’t be easy to play at a high level kinda shut off from a lot of their support systems. Yes every program faces that but that’s kinda my point. Unless you were planning on moving on from a coach and this was a good excuse season or a hire didn’t have their first big year this year I wouldn’t make the move.

 

[GatoLouco]

LOL, as I read your first question, my thought was, "There's not much on this team that doesn't concern me." So that gives you an overview of the remaining answers. But since you asked ...

1) Let's put it this way. I think you can rebound in this system. Does he have the guys to do it? Obviously not.

I offered the example of Matt Painter this week. One of the reasons I know he's successful is that he knows to have a big front line - the huge guy in the middle year after year, and some 6-8ish bulk next to him.

Collins is forever in search of the Euro guy - the stretch 4 who can shoot from outside and a lean-ish big man who can run the court. I think that's a BIG problem with his approach, and it reduces the concentration on rebounding and defense.

2) I disagree that Kopp, Buie and Audige can't create their own shot. I think Kopp has evolved into a stronger player in that area, but he doesn't do it enough/get open/get the ball enough.

Buie and Audige can create their own shot, but: a) They're horrible decisionmakers; b) I'd be surprised if every locker room in the B10 doesn't know their shot is going up when they're in the lane. They're HORRIBLE at sharing the ball while Kopp is camped out there all day.

I'd argue all day that Moore and Demps were much better.

But yes, Collins need to develop these aspects of their game, and you'd think we would have seen soemthing better by now.

3) How does EVERY team lighting it up from 3 not concern you?

Somebody out here has offered the theory that what has REALLY changed since the tournament is the loss of Baldwin coaching defense. That's the theory I'm starting to buy.

4) If you told me next year was more like a usual B10 season, i could buy 10-10.

I think I'm getting the rep as a Collins guy. So be it.

The way these guys are headed I assume they're going to lose the last six games. If that happens, you won't see me out here barking if he gets dumped by a new AD. Most of what's happening speaks for itself, and it really doesn't need the exaggeration it's getting.

You never struck me as a "Collins" guy but you are balanced enough to be for Collins in some aspects and against him in others. And that's how it should be. Personally, beyond the recruiting, I do like his empathy and the way it appears his relationship with his players is a good one.

Anyway, you bring up good points about having a "system". Ultimately there is no system that is the silver bullet. If there was everyone would use it and, in turn, that would make it turn into a non silver bullet. There are teams who win playing fast (NC, Creighton to mention a couple). There are teams that win playing slow (VA, Butler to mention a couple). And systems are not just about "speed", of course.

Teams that play fast should score more, should allow more points. More possessions will lead to that. Teams playing slow will score less, will allow less points. So, in the end, what matters is offensive and defensive efficiency. How much you score and allow per possession. A coach chooses a blue print for playing based on many things. I suspect overwhelmingly it ends up being the system the coach himself is comfortable with and feels he can do the best job teaching, perfecting. Makes sense.

So what is the problem with the way we play? We decided we wanted to play fast. Playing fast seems to me a system that requires athletic players who can shoot the ball. And a somewhat deep bench. We also have played in a motion type of offense that requires the same athletic players that can drive into the lane. So the problem with both playing fast and relying on motion offense? We do not have the athleticism to make it efficient. We can be tall, but we can't be fast. So we went with a Nance at the 5 to try to counter that. That made our defense pitiful, because we gave up height that made up for some of our lack of speed on defense.

Playing slow and in a more old fashioned system, maybe not as hard core as VA, but Butler could be a good example, makes up a lot more for lack of speed/athleticism. In a lot of ways, just like the PO and 1-3-1 tried to counter the enormous differences in athleticism of the BC years.

In my view, Collins has never understood any of this. He knows the Duke'ish way of playing. Like most coaches, that is what he understands well, what he feels he can teach better. But he has never been able to recruit for it. He recruits at a much higher level than I ever expected at NU. But not at the level of having guys like Gillespie, Zagarowski, to mention a couple that thrive in quick and motion offenses.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

You never struck me as a "Collins" guy but you are balanced enough to be for Collins in some aspects and against him in others. And that's how it should be. Personally, beyond the recruiting, I do like his empathy and the way it appears his relationship with his players is a good one.

Anyway, you bring up good points about having a "system". Ultimately there is no system that is the silver bullet. If there was everyone would use it and, in turn, that would make it turn into a non silver bullet. There are teams who win playing fast (NC, Creighton to mention a couple). There are teams that win playing slow (VA, Butler to mention a couple). And systems are not just about "speed", of course.

Teams that play fast should score more, should allow more points. More possessions will lead to that. Teams playing slow will score less, will allow less points. So, in the end, what matters is offensive and defensive efficiency. How much you score and allow per possession. A coach chooses a blue print for playing based on many things. I suspect overwhelmingly it ends up being the system the coach himself is comfortable with and feels he can do the best job teaching, perfecting. Makes sense.

So what is the problem with the way we play? We decided we wanted to play fast. Playing fast seems to me a system that requires athletic players who can shoot the ball. And a somewhat deep bench. We also have played in a motion type of offense that requires the same athletic players that can drive into the lane. So the problem with both playing fast and relying on motion offense? We do not have the athleticism to make it efficient. We can be tall, but we can't be fast. So we went with a Nance at the 5 to try to counter that. That made our defense pitiful, because we gave up height that made up for some of our lack of speed on defense.

Playing slow and in a more old fashioned system, maybe not as hard core as VA, but Butler could be a good example, makes up a lot more for lack of speed/athleticism. In a lot of ways, just like the PO and 1-3-1 tried to counter the enormous differences in athleticism of the BC years.

In my view, Collins has never understood any of this. He knows the Duke'ish way of playing. Like most coaches, that is what he understands well, what he feels he can teach better. But he has never been able to recruit for it. He recruits at a much higher level than I ever expected at NU. But not at the level of having guys like Gillespie, Zagarowski, to mention a couple that thrive in quick and motion offenses.

Nitpick but nance at the 5 and Beran at the 4 does not give up height defensively. Nance is pretty quick for a 5 as well. Also our best interior defender.

 

[GatoLouco]

Nitpick but nance at the 5 and Beran at the 4 does not give up height defensively. Nance is pretty quick for a 5 as well. Also our best interior defender.

That might be inches wise true. As Beran only gives up an inch. But forces Nance to guard a Johnson, Trevion, Garza, Cockburn, TJD... with the help below coming from Beran. See it as giving up height/weight/ability to guard bigs. Nance is awesome on defense on the help side. Beran is not.

And I'm one that likes the Kopp/Beran/Nance/Young combo on the floor. Slow, lateral movement to stay with players, but going at the shooters unafraid of being beaten off the dribble and rely that often you'll have really tall guys behind you who will bother the player who just beat you off the dribble.

 

[willycat]

While wins and losses are important and trips to the postseason are the ultimate goal, for me, the main indictment against Collins is that when I think on his tenure, there were only two years that were actually fun to watch. Win or lose, the tourney year was a blast and the year before was pretty fun too. But I would argue every other year has been miserable.

Do any of you guys still truly look forward to watching an NU game this year? It's not just that we're losing, but how we lose. We see the same crap over and over. Bad defense with what seems to be a real lack of fight. Horrible rebounding. Missed shot after missed shot. Appalling decisions by our ballhandlers. Inability to do the little things to close games down the stretch such that even if we're in a ballgame, we all know what is coming.

Other than that little mirage to start the BIG campaign this season, it has not been fun to watch NU basketball since that tournament here in CT early in the season following the NCAA year where things started to fall apart for good.

Some of you are optimistic about next year when Kopp and Nance are seniors. Why? What do you really think is going to change in one year? We'll hear those same great stories of how hard Miller has worked in the offseason and how much better he'll be only to see him once again blanketed all over the court with an inability to get open. We'll see Nance show those same brief flashes of a talented shooting guard in a 6'-10" body, but again fail to see a 6'-10" guy do the things you need your 6'10" guy to do - like rebound and defend the paint. Is Greer the senior who is going to step up and be the star we need? What is it that you think this group of rising seniors will do that is any different from what we've already seen??

It's just depressing. At least making a change offers a chance at hope - even if it doesn't pan out.

Baldwin Jr.!!!

 

[Sec.112]

Collins is highly paid relative to his results. An average paid coach should deliver average results or thereabouts. That logic continues to escape you. Almost everyone on here seems to think the administrators also agree that he’s highly paid, given that everyone likes to cite his hefty buyout as a reason he will not or should not be fired. If he was on a cheapass contract, why are people worried about the buyout?

Now we're bringing in the opinion of NU administrators? Now I know you're one of the NU cheapasses.

There's MORE than enough evidence to crush Collins without using his incredibly-average B10 salary.