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Same old, same old....

He said pretty much the same thing after the ISU debacle 2 years ago.

No he did not. He specifically said that the young OL that came into the Duke game were unprepared because they had been taught the proper techniques during practice. He then went on to contrast that with the play of the young DL like Trevor Kent, who he said "kicked ass". This was the first time that Fitz alluded to a problem that went beyond just the performance of the OL in a specific game. Short of calling out Cushing by name in front of everybody, that is as direct as Fitz has ever been to admitting that the OL have not been developed properly. I have been paying attention and can't remember Fitz ever saying anything remotely close to that.
 
Actually, Wirtz was all about loyalty too. He said he’d never put the games on TV out of loyalty to the season reservation holders. If we heard it once, we heard it a hundred times. So I don’t see a difference. I see a parallel.

I was really excited about this season. More excited than I’ve even been. I believed that things had changed. I’m disappointed now. I think I’m seeing now that my purple glasses were about six shades of purple too strong.

Nothing’s going to change until Fitz changes and decides to clean house.

Yes he was but that loyalty extended to everything about the way the Blackhawks were run. Loyalty to management, loyalty to ticket holders, loyalty to aging players, loyalty to the status quo. To date, Fitz's loyalty has been to individuals, rather than to how things are done. For the most part, I don't believe his loyalty to individuals has been misplaced. By and large, I think NU has an outstanding staff. That's where you and I may differ.
 
Yes he was but that loyalty extended to everything about the way the Blackhawks were run. Loyalty to management, loyalty to ticket holders, loyalty to aging players, loyalty to the status quo. To date, Fitz's loyalty has been to individuals, rather than to how things are done. For the most part, I don't believe his loyalty to individuals has been misplaced. By and large, I think NU has an outstanding staff. That's where you and I may differ.

If they were outstanding, I would think that they would show up on the radar of all the other programs that are hell bent on improving their staffs and people would try to poach them. By and large, that’s not happening. Our staff gets poached about as often as Haley’s Comet shows up on the same night as a total lunar eclipse.
 
If they were outstanding, I would think that they would show up on the radar of all the other programs that are hell bent on improving their staffs and people would try to poach them. By and large, that’s not happening. Our staff gets poached about as often as Haley’s Comet shows up on the same night as a total lunar eclipse.
Bates got poached to be DC at Pitt.
 
If they were outstanding, I would think that they would show up on the radar of all the other programs that are hell bent on improving their staffs and people would try to poach them. By and large, that’s not happening. Our staff gets poached about as often as Haley’s Comet shows up on the same night as a total lunar eclipse.

How do you know that's not happening? They could be getting queries and deciding to not move because they are happy at NU. Bates moved on when he got a promotion and an opportunity to go back back home. Guys like Ayeni and McGarigle were sought after, well respected young coaches who chose to come back to NU over other opportunities. Guys like Hankiwitz, McCall, Long, Heffner and MacPherson are obviously good coaches just by the track record of results and player development that they have demonstrated over an extended period of time. In my opinion there are only a few coaches on this staff whose job performance should be in doubt.
 
Bates got poached to be DC at Pitt.
I’m not as into knowing all the coaching ins and outs as most here, so who was the last one before that? How many in the last 10 years or so? Maybe I’m off base on this. I’m just going from memory. I remember losing our Wide Receiver guy to Indiana a while ago. Anybody in between?
 
No he did not. He specifically said that the young OL that came into the Duke game were unprepared because they had been taught the proper techniques during practice. He then went on to contrast that with the play of the young DL like Trevor Kent, who he said "kicked ass". This was the first time that Fitz alluded to a problem that went beyond just the performance of the OL in a specific game. Short of calling out Cushing by name in front of everybody, that is as direct as Fitz has ever been to admitting that the OL have not been developed properly. I have been paying attention and can't remember Fitz ever saying anything remotely close to that.
I have had a bad week, my softball team lost in the playoff, car went in for repairs, lost my job, and now this game. I hope I haven’t lost my mind, but I recall the ISU game being the birth of the “it starts up front” mantra that has been thrown out for the last 2 years. I agree it was more of a general condemnation with that statement, but poor games when they are in the frequently that NU has experienced over the last half dozen years leads a reasonable man to the same conclusion.

Either way, Fitz has been fielding questions about coaching turn over since at least 2015 and first areas that always get questioned are OL and WR.
 
I’m not as into knowing all the coaching ins and outs as most here, so who was the last one before that? How many in the last 10 years or so? Maybe I’m off base on this. I’m just going from memory. I remember losing our Wide Receiver guy to Indiana a while ago. Anybody in between?

The WR coach was fired. The one before that was our OL coach who went on to win a Super Bowl with the New Orleans Saints. The absence of movement does not prove that there is no interest in our coaches. The reality is that many of these guys are not going to leave for just any job because they realize how great of a place NU is.
 
I have had a bad week, my softball team lost in the playoff, car went in for repairs, lost my job, and now this game. I hope I haven’t lost my mind, but I recall the ISU game being the birth of the “it starts up front” mantra that has been thrown out for the last 2 years. I agree it was more of a general condemnation with that statement, but poor games when they are in the frequently that NU has experienced over the last half dozen years leads a reasonable man to the same conclusion.

Either way, Fitz has been fielding questions about coaching turn over since at least 2015 and first areas that always get questioned are OL and WR.

Sorry to hear about your week. I was out of work for a few months in 2016 and it sucks. Hope you land on your feet very quickly.
 
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How do you know that's not happening? They could be getting queries and deciding to not move because they are happy at NU. Bates moved on when he got a promotion and an opportunity to go back back home. Guys like Ayeni and McGarigle were sought after, well respected young coaches who chose to come back to NU over other opportunities. Guys like Hankiwitz, McCall, Long, Heffner and MacPherson are obviously good coaches just by the track record of results and player development that they have demonstrated over an extended period of time. In my opinion there are only a few coaches on this staff whose job performance should be in doubt.

How do you know it is?

The discussion was about “outstanding” coaches and how often outstanding coaches get poached. You’re talking about “good” coaches and asking me to prove the negative that nobody ever tries to hire them.

That’s a pretty significant shifting of the goalposts, corbi. If I could hit a moving target like that, I’ve got 5 years of football eligibility left... maybe I should call Fitz and let him know that I’m available to play QB... :)
 
How do you know it is?

The discussion was about “outstanding” coaches and how often outstanding coaches get poached. You’re talking about “good” coaches and asking me to prove the negative that nobody ever tries to hire them.

That’s a pretty significant shifting of the goalposts, corbi. If I could hit a moving target like that, I’ve got 5 years of football eligibility left... maybe I should call Fitz and let him know that I’m available to play QB... :)

The conversation was about good coaches. I judge position coaches by the product they put on the field over an extended period time. In my opinion, the coaches I cited have proven themselves over an extended period of time. Not only are you making a questionable assumption by concluding that our coaches have not received interest from other schools because they have not left NU but you are also basing your assessment of whether or not they are good coaches solely by that perceived lack of interest. Judging a coaches worth solely by how much interest he gets from other schools is the equivalent of judging a prospective recruit solely by what other offers he has received. I prefer to judge them by using my own eyes.
 
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The WR coach was fired. The one before that was our OL coach who went on to win a Super Bowl with the New Orleans Saints. The absence of movement does not prove that there is no interest in our coaches. The reality is that many of these guys are not going to leave for just any job because they realize how great of a place NU is.
Are you referring to Kromer? He left after 2000 and was only at NU for 2 seasons.
 
The difference is that with Fitz it's more about loyalty to an individual that has been with him from the beginning whereas with Mr. Wirtz it was just an overall resistance to change. Wirtz didn't change anything about how the Blackhawks were run for the last 30 years. As I age, I am acutely aware that we become more resistant to change as we get older. My view is that Fitz overall has been open to change but not at the expense of loyalty.
Which is why I think head coaches need to find that balance between making their staff a family, while maintaining a clear hierarchy. They can't be best buddies with their assistants as much as they would like to because they may have to fire their best buddy.
 
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The conversation was about good coaches.

I don’t believe that that’s factually correct. The word was “outstanding”, as in “By and large, we have an outstanding staff.” Those were your words. That’s why I quoted them the first time.

It guess it’s possible that many of our staff have received overtures for career promotion positional like Coordinator jobs or even literal jobs at traditional big time programs at significantly higher salaries, or even a head coaching job. Yes. It’s possible some of the position coaches turned coordinator or HC jobs down. I can’t deny that. I als can’t deny that they were offered the CEO job at Google, a new spacestation franchise by Elon Musk, the chance to be the lead singer for Van Halen or the Arizona Senate seat.

But I think it’s reasobale to say that the more questionable assumption is that our staff was offered but turned down these amazing jobs than that they were never offered in the first place.

By the way, I don’t disagree with you that we have some good and even very good coaches. It’s just that that iwe were talking about outstanding coaches and in this hyper-competitive game, outstanding coaches get poached with big raises.
 
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I don’t believe that that’s factually correct. The word was “outstanding”, as in “By and large, we have an outstanding staff.” Those were your words. That’s why I quoted them the first time.

It guess it’s possible that many of our staff have received overtures for career promotion positional like Coordinator jobs or even literal jobs at traditional big time programs at significantly higher salaries, or even a head coaching job. Yes. It’s possible some of the position coaches turned coordinator or HC jobs down. I can’t deny that. I als can’t deny that they were offered the CEO job at Google, a new spacestation franchise by Elon Musk, the chance to be the lead singer for Van Halen or the Arizona Senate seat.

But I think it’s reasobale to say that the more questionable assumption is that our staff was offered but turned down these amazing jobs than that they were never offered in the first place.

By the way, I don’t disagree with you that we have some good and even very good coaches. It’s just that that iwe were talking about outstanding coaches and in this hyper-competitive game, outstanding coaches get poached with big raises.

By and large we do have an outstanding staff. I stand by that comment without a bit of hesitation. 27 wins over the last three years should be sufficient evidence for most but apparently not.
 
By and large we do have an outstanding staff. I stand by that comment without a bit of hesitation. 27 wins over the last three years should be sufficient evidence for most but apparently not.
You can stand by the comment as long as you’d like. Until the next time we lose to Akron for that matter, which might not happen in this millennium.

That’s not the point. I’m not trying to change your mind about the staff.

The point is that you moved the goalposts and then denied that you did and now apparently you’re not denying it anymore but stand behind it (which you didn’t previously) because you moved away from it and to a good standard.

I don’t even think we disagree on the staff all that much but I think we definitely disagree on what “outstanding” means. Outstanding means better than virtually everybody else. And in this game, if you meet that description you get 7 figures from somebody else.
 
You can stand by the comment as long as you’d like. Until the next time we lose to Akron for that matter, which might not happen in this millennium.

That’s not the point. I’m not trying to change your mind about the staff.

The point is that you moved the goalposts and then denied that you did and now apparently you’re not denying it anymore but stand behind it (which you didn’t previously) because you moved away from it and to a good standard.

I don’t even think we disagree on the staff all that much but I think we definitely disagree on what “outstanding” means. Outstanding means better than virtually everybody else. And in this game, if you meet that description you get 7 figures from somebody else.

I didn’t move the goal post. I said good in one sentence and outstanding in another. Sorry if those connote dramatically different meanings in your eyes. Well above average is how I would best categorize them. You give the vast majority of other coaching staffs in college football the NU roster over the last three years and they don’t win 27 games like ours did. I am highly confident in saying that.
 
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I didn’t move the goal post. I said good in one sentence and outstanding in another. Sorry if those connote dramatically different meanings in your eyes. Well above average is how I would best categorize them. You give the vast majority of other coaching staffs in college football the NU roster over the last three years and they don’t win 27 games like ours did. I am highly confident in saying that.
This should be required reading for everyone on this board, imo.
 
I didn’t move the goal post. I said good in one sentence and outstanding in another. Sorry if those connote dramatically different meanings in your eyes. Well above average is how I would best categorize them. You give the vast majority of other coaching staffs in college football the NU roster over the last three years and they don’t win 27 games like ours did. I am highly confident in saying that.
So it sounds like the problem lies with the people identifying the talent and constructing the roster? Who could that be?
 
So it sounds like the problem lies with the people identifying the talent and constructing the roster? Who could that be?

Football is won on the line of scrimmage. Everything starts with the assumption that the Offensive line will give the skill position players enough time and space to execute the play. You could have Bill Walsh as NU’s offensive coordinator calling plays and we would not be consistently effective with the caliber of OL play we have seen over the last several years. On average the OL play has been subpar and wildly inconsistent. In my opinion McCall has been a quasi miracle worker to make the offense as productive as it has with the handicap we have been given. To me the root of the problem lies there and I have been saying it consistently for years. This staff needs tweaking not an overhaul. Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.
 
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I have had a bad week, my softball team lost in the playoff, car went in for repairs, lost my job, and now this game. I hope I haven’t lost my mind, but I recall the ISU game being the birth of the “it starts up front” mantra that has been thrown out for the last 2 years.
I’m sorry about your bad week and particularly the job loss. If I were Lou I’d create a “Wildcat Job Board” for qualified fans who are between jobs or just looking for new opportunities, references, or career advice. It might not come close to LinkedIn but it theoretically could help. If you’d like support from Cats fans I hope you share more info on The Rock (or the Rant board).

As for the ISU game: that and the 2006 UNH game were my lowest points as a fan. 2002 Air Force was particularly bad for other reasons... so as bad as last night was, we’ll bounce back. The Cats will figure it out or find new assistants who will in the offseason.

I hope your next job is the perfect one for you and your family.
 
Football is won on the line of scrimmage. Everything starts with the assumption that the Offensive line will give the skill position players enough time and space to execute the play. You could have Bill Walsh as NU’s offensive coordinator calling plays and we would not be consistently effective with the caliber of OL play we have seen over the last several years. On average the OL play has been subpar and wildly inconsistent. In my opinion McCall has been a quasi miracle worker to make the offense as productive as it has with the handicap we have been given. To me the root of the problem lies there and I have been saying it consistently for years. This staff needs tweaking not an overhaul. Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.
I often wonder what McCall thinks of Cushing. I agree that the underachieving oline handcuffs what McCall can do and it has for awhile. I have to assume McCall has issues with Fitz refusing to make staff changes. Either we completely whiffed on what the problems are or McCall has to be up in arms that this is the hand he's been dealt.
 
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