serious question re: the future of college football...

[Katatonic]

Here's an interesting article about Baylor's new BB arena which reduced capacity (wish they had mentioned W/R)...

The Court Report: Why programs should follow Baylor, downsize arenas for better college basketball experience

Matt Norlander's weekly college hoops notebook also has a history lesson on what happens to the last undefeated team come March

www.cbssports.com

Think every once in a while with an upperclass-laden team and the right breaks, the Cats can make the POs.

There's also been talk about another tournament equivalent to the NIT for CFB.

 

[JimStarr777]

There's also been talk about another tournament equivalent to the NIT for CFB.

Which, just like the NIT, nobody will give a f about. Win the tournament and MAYBE you’re the 13th best team?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Which, just like the NIT, nobody will give a f about. Win the tournament and MAYBE you’re the 13th best team?

Do they give a f about winning the Jimmy Kimmel bowl? Don’t understand your point?

 

[NUCat320]

Do they give a f about winning the Jimmy Kimmel bowl? Don’t understand your point?

Bowl games — with trophy presentations and finality and their sense of “one last time” for both teams — are infinitely better than a second tier tournament.

No chance of a second-tier tournament. A second tier tournament won’t bring literally hundreds of people to Mobile or Birmingham or Montgomery on the Saturday before Christmas.*

*srsly, three of the seven bowl games on 12/23 were played in Alabama.

 

[zeek55]

Bowl games — with trophy presentations and finality and their sense of “one last time” for both teams — are infinitely better than a second tier tournament.

No chance of a second-tier tournament. A second tier tournament won’t bring literally hundreds of people to Mobile or Birmingham or Montgomery on the Saturday before Christmas.*

*srsly, three of the seven bowl games on 12/23 were played in Alabama.

I agree with this.

I think only way a 2nd tournament makes sense is if the top 24-32 Power teams split away and make their own CFB NFL.

At that point sure, the rest of FBS becomes a separate division with its own playoff (new 2nd tournament).

Otherwise I think bowl games that match us up with equal opponents from SEC or ACC or Pac-12 or Detroit v top MAC is best ending for a season.

For programs like ours there's value in facing off against Utah, Pitt, Auburn, Miss State, Kentucky in a high viewership bowl game depending on how the season went.

Much more preferable to a CFB version of the NIT.

I think viewership would get diluted away from matchups like ours if they weren't Power brand v Power brand and fan travel is just not going to happen to multiple bowl games unless you're in the actual CFP.

 

[hdhntr1]

I used to sleep comfortably at night knowing this. I no longer do.

I don't think Northwestern and Vanderbilt will be unceremoniously singled out and kicked out of the Big Ten and SEC, respectively, but I do worry about a more significant realignment where even schools like Michigan State and Wisconsin could find themselves on a chopping block. We will reach a point when the Florida States of the world want in on the Big 2, and it no longer makes economic sense to take new members...but does it make sense to leave the FSUs, Clemsons, Miamis, and Notre Dames out when they obviously add more value than some on the inside?

I fear the Michigans and Texases will openly consider how much 20-40 of the most elite brands could make working together on building a closed league and boxing out those that just had the good sense to align 100+ years ago. I could see them weaponizing things like attendance, licensing, and accounting on how much each program "reinvests" in revenue generating sports.

Reality is that the big money programs need to win to have relevance and if the all go into that group, a bunch of them are going to lose a lot and will have a hard time explaining it to their fanbases

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I agree with this.

I think only way a 2nd tournament makes sense is if the top 24-32 Power teams split away and make their own CFB NFL.

At that point sure, the rest of FBS becomes a separate division with its own playoff (new 2nd tournament).

Otherwise I think bowl games that match us up with equal opponents from SEC or ACC or Pac-12 or Detroit v top MAC is best ending for a season.

For programs like ours there's value in facing off against Utah, Pitt, Auburn, Miss State, Kentucky in a high viewership bowl game depending on how the season went.

Much more preferable to a CFB version of the NIT.

I think viewership would get diluted away from matchups like ours if they weren't Power brand v Power brand and fan travel is just not going to happen to multiple bowl games unless you're in the actual CFP.

I don’t disagree with you. A second tournament with the current alignment doesn’t make sense. However, in todays game, I think their are fan bases that don’t really care all that much about winning their bowl game. It’s the location and party that matter,

 

[Sheffielder]

Reality is that the big money programs need to win to have relevance and if the all go into that group, a bunch of them are going to lose a lot and will have a hard time explaining it to their fanbases

What's "normal" in CFB gets disrupted all the time. 20 years ago no one in the state of Texas would have believed that UT and A&M would have gone their separate ways and discontinued their annual rivalry. Same people would never see a reason for Texas or TCU to play in the Rose Bowl.

See also: Why would a school in New Jersey ever share a conference with a school in California?

And: If any P5 conference breaks up it would be the Big XII, certainly not the 100+ year old conference on the west coast.

In terms of fan expectations, as CFB continues to look more like the NFL, I think our two mega conferences will normalize eight-win seasons as the new 10-win season. Likewise, Bears fans aren't going anywhere despite their futility...in CFB the way thigs are looking, this will just become a reflection of how poorly a fanbase "supports" NIL efforts.

All I'm saying (and the reason I started this conversation) is I worry that absolutely nothing is off the table anymore in terms of the future of CFB, and that makes me feel equally worried and disappointed.

 

[hdhntr1]

N

We are in an elite conference and we have money.

Now, but if this continues the way it is going the big boys will work on pushing programs like ours out. Maybe not out of the BIG but if they leave a lot of the money will disappear as well

 

[hdhntr1]

You a

You don't know this, You are making a guess.

My guess is a 47k cute stadium in Evanston could be great economically for Evanston and Northwestern.

The biggest reason for a 35K stadium and not the 47K stadium you keep pushing for? You ain't paying for it and the guys that are want a 35K stadium

 

[Eurocat]

You a

The biggest reason for a 35K stadium and not the 47K stadium you keep pushing for? You ain't paying for it and the guys that are want a 35K stadium

And they are wrong and I will pitch in.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

And they are wrong and I will pitch in.

Would love to see you and @gocatsgo2003 in a debate. That would be something.

 

[1060Ivy]

Ran across the following in the Athletic which makes one think about the state of college football

“The people in charge of the Hoosiers three years ago are now in charge of Alabama.”

 

[CatManTrue]

Ran across the following in the Athletic which makes one think about the state of college football

“The people in charge of the Hoosiers three years ago are now in charge of Alabama.”

That 2019 Indiana team, despite their incredibly dirty defensive play versus us which ended Hunter’s season early, was very good. And their success diminished when DeBoer departed.

Starting QB was Penix, who was eventually injured and replaced by the one and only Peyton Ramsey.

They finished 8-5 with narrow losses to PSU and Tennessee.

 

[zeek55]

Ran across the following in the Athletic which makes one think about the state of college football

“The people in charge of the Hoosiers three years ago are now in charge of Alabama.”

Yeah, Tom Allen may not have been a great coach, but that was a terrific staff that he put together back in 2019-2020. Not a surprise those are the best 2 years of the last near 30 for Indiana when you look at how that staff has performed elsewhere and now is running Alabama.

He had an eye for coaching talent.

 

[FeralFelidae]

Starting QB was Penis

 

[Darren72]

Ran across the following in the Athletic which makes one think about the state of college football

I think this is a good sign for the state of college football. You have two coaches who had talent and worked their way through the ranks.

 

[pawildcat]

We won't go anywhere with a stadium that seats only 30,000.

I wonder if that is not the purpose. Keep it small, say "oh well we are Northwestern and we cannot run with the big programs....but we have five nice concerts coming up this season and ladies lacrosse!".

Northwestern generally has fewer than 10,000 undergraduate students. There are schools in my undergraduate alma mater's Division II conference that have more students. They don't fill 47,000-seat Ryan Field unless Ohio State or Michigan come calling. I've fine with having 35,000 seats and letting Buckeye fans wait 10 years to see a game in Ohio.

 

[Zootcat]

Just spitballing here, but I wonder whether this could evolve into the pro soccer model where there are tiers of leagues, and teams move up or down based on performance.

I’m not advocating it, but I think it might address some of the “let’s keep every game interesting” concerns. I’m interested in what you folks think.

 

[NUCat320]

Just spitballing here, but I wonder whether this could evolve into the pro soccer model where there are tiers of leagues, and teams move up or down based on performance.

I’m not advocating it, but I think it might address some of the “let’s keep every game interesting” concerns. I’m interested in what you folks think.

I think it would be great. I would be happy to see a 2 year relegation cycle in the new B1G.

 

[hdhntr1]

Northwestern generally has fewer than 10,000 undergraduate students. There are schools in my undergraduate alma mater's Division II conference that have more students. They don't fill 47,000-seat Ryan Field unless Ohio State or Michigan come calling. I've fine with having 35,000 seats and letting Buckeye fans wait 10 years to see a game in Ohio.

They always have less than 10K undergrad. Capacity now is about 8500 now (6000 when I was there) and pretty hard to increase it from here with the city of Evanston blocking every opportunity of expansion. And that is but the tip of the iceberg because it also means that 40 years of of grads is only about 70-80K alums. And a large % leave the state and the area and most are also not people that go to games. This is less than 20% of the alumni base of a UofI . Because of the nature of NU, a large % also leave the area and since it is not a public university and doesn't have the normal ties to the local area or state that other major programs have. The overall result is a fan base willing and able to go to games is only about 10-15% of a normal P5 program. (only about 5 to 10% of a major program such as dOSU, PSU or Michigan). Face it, having good attendance will always be challenging and will become more and more so with the more immersive nature of TV.

 

[hdhntr1]

And they are wrong and I will pitch in.

Hey buddy, can you spare $500 mill? Reality is that unless you will be giving an 8 or 9 figure donation, no one making the decisions is listening.

 

[hdhntr1]

Now that is funny

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

They always have less than 10K undergrad. Capacity now is about 8500 now (6000 when I was there) and pretty hard to increase it from here with the city of Evanston blocking every opportunity of expansion. And that is but the tip of the iceberg because it also means that 40 years of of grads is only about 70-80K alums. And a large % leave the state and the area and most are also not people that go to games. This is less than 20% of the alumni base of a UofI . Because of the nature of NU, a large % also leave the area and since it is not a public university and doesn't have the normal ties to the local area or state that other major programs have. The overall result is a fan base willing and able to go to games is only about 10-15% of a normal P5 program. (only about 5 to 10% of a major program such as dOSU, PSU or Michigan). Face it, having good attendance will always be challenging and will become more and more so with the more immersive nature of TV.

Maybe admissions could admit more local qualified students instead of worrying about feeder schools.

 

[hdhntr1]

Maybe admissions could admit more local qualified students instead of worrying about feeder schools.

??? They do not have the spaces and hard to really be a commuter school

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

??? They do not have the spaces and hard to really be a commuter school

Not when you live in Asia.

 

[hdhntr1]

Not when you live in Asia.

Did not know that was local

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Maybe admissions could admit more local qualified students instead of worrying about feeder schools.

Did not know that was local

You’re talking about different things. PPD is talking about taking more kids from the area to build a local fan/alumni base.

 

[zeek55]

They always have less than 10K undergrad. Capacity now is about 8500 now (6000 when I was there) and pretty hard to increase it from here with the city of Evanston blocking every opportunity of expansion. And that is but the tip of the iceberg because it also means that 40 years of of grads is only about 70-80K alums. And a large % leave the state and the area and most are also not people that go to games. This is less than 20% of the alumni base of a UofI . Because of the nature of NU, a large % also leave the area and since it is not a public university and doesn't have the normal ties to the local area or state that other major programs have. The overall result is a fan base willing and able to go to games is only about 10-15% of a normal P5 program. (only about 5 to 10% of a major program such as dOSU, PSU or Michigan). Face it, having good attendance will always be challenging and will become more and more so with the more immersive nature of TV.

All of this is why the big money (Ryans especially) signed off on reducing capacity to 35k.

This new stadium will be a way better experience with 35k than RF was in its best days. Sound will get trapped, the stands are steep and close to the action; it will feel like a smaller version of Autzen.

When it's full and loud, 35k will sound and look like 55k on TV. That's perfect for us as far as capacity goes.

 

[Zootcat]

All of this is why the big money (Ryans especially) signed off on reducing capacity to 35k.

This new stadium will be a way better experience with 35k than RF was in its best days. Sound will get trapped, the stands are steep and close to the action; it will feel like a smaller version of Autzen.

When it's full and loud, 35k will sound and look like 55k on TV. That's perfect for us as far as capacity goes.

If it has the new Bball arena’s atmosphere, it will be awesome. We have season Bball tickets now. The Purdue game was way fun!

 

[CatManTrue]

If it has the new Bball arena’s atmosphere, it will be awesome. We have season Bball tickets now. The Purdue game was way fun!

Was Chicago State fun too? Like Illinois State in 2016?

Asking for my buddy @CoralSpringsCat as neither of us could attend.

 

[Zootcat]

Was Chicago State fun too? Like Illinois State in 2016?

Asking for my buddy @CoralSpringsCat as neither of us could attend.

Wth is this? Seriously, what’s your point?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Wth is this? Seriously, what’s your point?

In honor of Hungry Jack:

All of this drinkin' and smokin' is hopeless
But feel like it's all that I need
Somethin' inside of me's broken
I hold on to anything that sets me free
I'm a lost cause
Baby, don't waste your time on me
I'm so damaged beyond repair
Life has shattered my hopes and my dreams

That explains it.

 

[CatManTrue]

Wth is this? Seriously, what’s your point?

That it’s the quality of the fans banding together thru thick and thin like we do! Not the size of the stadium.

I was also surprised they went as small as 35K. 40K seems more appropriate.

 

[CatManTrue]

In honor of Hungry Jack:

All of this drinkin' and smokin' is hopeless
But feel like it's all that I need
Somethin' inside of me's broken
I hold on to anything that sets me free
I'm a lost cause
Baby, don't waste your time on me
I'm so damaged beyond repair
Life has shattered my hopes and my dreams

That explains it.

I had to google those depressing lyrics. There’s a hit musician named “Jelly Roll”? What a world we live in, in 2024.

I’m sure he’ll sell out the new Ryan Field with its reduced capacity.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I had to google those depressing lyrics. There’s a hit musician named “Jelly Roll”? What a world we live in, in 2024.

I’m sure he’ll sell out the new Ryan Field with its reduced capacity.

You would be further stunned that Jelly Roll was in front of Congress last week! HULU has a great documentary on Jelly Roll, check it out.

 

[TheC]

I had to google those depressing lyrics. There’s a hit musician named “Jelly Roll”? What a world we live in, in 2024.

I’m sure he’ll sell out the new Ryan Field with its reduced capacity.

What goes around comes around....

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I had to google those depressing lyrics. There’s a hit musician named “Jelly Roll”? What a world we live in, in 2024.

I’m sure he’ll sell out the new Ryan Field with its reduced capacity.

Lainey Wilson might make it less depressing for you!

 

[CatManTrue]

You would be further stunned that Jelly Roll was in front of Congress last week! HULU has a great documentary on Jelly Roll, check it out.

No thanks. Congress has bigger concerns, and I prefer my Jelly on toast or in a donut.

 

[CatManTrue]

Wth is this? Seriously, what’s your point?

Alright, I’ll admit it. I’m jealous as I haven’t been able to attend a game at the new Welsh-Ryan yet.

One of these years it’ll happen.