This popped up today and got me thinking: will Boo pass G.O.A.T. "Baby Faced Assassin" in points this season? Baring injury, he's under 500 points shy of John. Would need a big * on the new record if he does though....
Shurna/Buie
- Thread starter NJCat
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Probably not for the season that was cancelled, but for the extra "bonus" season he gets due to the cancelled season.
Does Shurna have a big * on his record because Billy McKinney didn't have a 3 point line?
Billy McKinney didn't have to play for Bill Carmody, which negates the 3 point line effect.
You obviously never saw Ed McCants play at NU. @EvanstonCat can share the legendary stories of Easy Ed.
No player could take a banister to the head quite like Ed.
Yes, 102 games for Billy, 130 for BFA. Billy averaged 18.6 ppg, John just 15.7......
I can't get enough Billy McKinney insight from the older crowd!!!! I wish there was more film. Hopefully NU will dig up more with the events this year.
He must have been amazing to do what he did without a 3-pt line. I assume the group around him was lousy also.
He must have been amazing to do what he did without a 3-pt line. I assume the group around him was lousy also.
Shurna played 130 games for the Cats. McKinney played 102, Eschmeyer 112. While Shurna scored the most total points, there is no way in my view that he was a better player than either of those two.
I suspect Shurna had a much better supporting cast than the other two over their careers, but each played a different role on their teams (besides scoring a lot) and in different generations of rules and refereeing , so comparing them seems a bit apples and oranges to me. They do seem like each the goat of their era of the team, tho.
I think with a bit of time travel, I'd like to see a team with all three of them in their prime playing together.
I think with a bit of time travel, I'd like to see a team with all three of them in their prime playing together.
I saw all three a lot. Shurna was not in the same zip code as McKinney and Eschmeyer in my opinion.
I also saw all three in person. Completely different playing styles. Very hard to compare. But John is the only one without NBA time.
We're talking about college ball, right? Not the NBA?
I suspect that Billy is the overall career goat, but I watched Evan and John play (Billy too, but I was vera young).
I think John was the better player.
iirc, Evan's best season in terms of team success was worse than John's worst season similarly.
To be fair, Evan played on horrible teams. His Senior year he was surrounded by 3 Freshmen and a Sophomore, plus Julian Bonner.
Shurna's worst season was on a team with Coble, Moore and Juice. No comparison IMHO.
And Esch had to play for Kevin O'Neill......
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Esch is the best player I've seen at NU in the past 30 years. Boo is arguably the most important, imo, though I understand the case for the Bryant or Law. Audige arguablly the toughest perimeter defender. Shurna was an excellent player and great kid, but didn't stand out to me the way Esch did and did not necessarily carry teams the way Esch, Boo did.
^ While it's an exercise in futility to try to compare players at different positions in different eras, some things can be gleaned from stats.
Esch avg'd 16.1 ppg (.595 FG%) and 8.9 rbg during his NU career.
Shurna avg'd 15.7 ppg (.467 FG%) and 5.0 rbg; .521 2P% and .401 3P%.
On a per 40 min basis, things are pretty close...
Esch - 20.9 ppg, 11.5 rbg, 2.4 apg, 1.1 spg, 1.5 bpg, 3.6 tpg
Shurna - 19.7 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.9 apg, 1.2 spg, 1.3 bpg, 2.1 tpg
- aside from Esch clearly having the edge in rebounding (in large part due to the positions they played) and Shurna being a bit better when it came to TOs.
Esch was a .655 shooter from the charity stripe, Shurna was at .745.
So, there's no clear "winner" btwn the 2, but considering the importance of the 3 pt shot in today's game, if had to choose 1 of the 2 to add to next season's squad, it would be the baby-faced assassin.
Aside from his frosh yr, Shurna was the go-to -guy, and his teams made it to the post season every year, including the season when a frosh Sobo was his starting PG.
During their frosh seasons, on a per 40 min basis, Shurna is actually ahead of Esch in terms of scoring - 15.8 to 14.0 ppg and his .553 2P% is pretty close to Esch's .560 2P%.
Most important player in recent time was Juice.
W/o Juice, there wouldn't be Shurna and Crawford and w/o those guys, there wouldn't be the 4 straight NIT appearances, and w/o those, there probably wouldn't be Coach C, Bryant, Law, Pardon, Boo, etc.
Esch avg'd 16.1 ppg (.595 FG%) and 8.9 rbg during his NU career.
Shurna avg'd 15.7 ppg (.467 FG%) and 5.0 rbg; .521 2P% and .401 3P%.
On a per 40 min basis, things are pretty close...
Esch - 20.9 ppg, 11.5 rbg, 2.4 apg, 1.1 spg, 1.5 bpg, 3.6 tpg
Shurna - 19.7 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 2.9 apg, 1.2 spg, 1.3 bpg, 2.1 tpg
- aside from Esch clearly having the edge in rebounding (in large part due to the positions they played) and Shurna being a bit better when it came to TOs.
Esch was a .655 shooter from the charity stripe, Shurna was at .745.
So, there's no clear "winner" btwn the 2, but considering the importance of the 3 pt shot in today's game, if had to choose 1 of the 2 to add to next season's squad, it would be the baby-faced assassin.
Aside from his frosh yr, Shurna was the go-to -guy, and his teams made it to the post season every year, including the season when a frosh Sobo was his starting PG.
During their frosh seasons, on a per 40 min basis, Shurna is actually ahead of Esch in terms of scoring - 15.8 to 14.0 ppg and his .553 2P% is pretty close to Esch's .560 2P%.
Most important player in recent time was Juice.
W/o Juice, there wouldn't be Shurna and Crawford and w/o those guys, there wouldn't be the 4 straight NIT appearances, and w/o those, there probably wouldn't be Coach C, Bryant, Law, Pardon, Boo, etc.
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I loved watching John Shurna grin his way around the basketball court, but consider Eschmeyer's supporting cast (several of whom Kevin O'Neil would curse at if they even looked like they were going to shoot) and imagine who the five players on the opposing squad were really guarding. Eschmeyer was often carrying not only his own team on his back, but 3-4 players on the other team as well!
Go 'Cats!
Go 'Cats!
Shurna also was asked to play out of position as a 4 at NU. He was underestimated as an athlete, being the winner of an all star dunk contest AND a 3 point contest. His funky shooting form aside, he was a great shooter. That said, Esch was a dominant college player.
Billy was a one man show during the Tex Winter era. He was all they had.
He was NUs leading scorer each of his 4 Seasons. The 2nd highest scorers each year were:
73-74. Willie Williams.
74-75. “. “.
75-76. Tim Teasley
76-77. Tony Allen
I was at most of those games and I barely remember these guys.
Kevin Coble. Man forgot about him. I loved his game. I hope all's been forgiven and he looks back at his career at Northwestern fondly.
That night at the Breslin Center where he singlehandedly demolished MSU remains one of my favorite games. Draymond was on that team but if I remember correctly he was a seldom used back-up then. I'd be bragging up the wazoo saying I beat a team with a future NBA Hall-of-Famer and Defensive Player of the Year.
Plus he's in the NBA! (albeit as a front office guy with the Atlanta Hawks)
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