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That Cryptic Post of November is starting to haunt us

Turk

Turk

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May 29, 2001
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Prior to the Big ten season, a poster posted that there was massive internal issues of infighting.

I believe in Coach Collins. But it doesn't matter if I believe in him or not, he is our guy. I support him 100% regarding any issues as he has to stay true to his beliefs. Is he stubborn? Who knows, but he will learn if he is. One thing I know is if we have to "Vasser" a kid then I don't have a problem with that.

We need discipline. Without discipline in practice, there is chaos. I have no idea what the issues are but our talent level far far far exceeds the results. This is a great group of kids, I just hope they can work out the situation. If they play great as a team, they could beat anyone in the BTT.

Has nothing to do with talent. And has nothing to do with AllState.

Go Cats!
 
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Turk said:
Prior to the Big ten season, a poster posted that there was massive internal issues of infighting.

I believe in Coach Collins. But it doesn't matter if I believe in him or not, he is our guy. I support him 100% regarding any issues as he has to stay true to his beliefs. Is he stubborn? Who knows, but he will learn if he is. One thing I know is if we have to "Vasser" a kid then I don't have a problem with that.

We need discipline. Without discipline in practice, there is chaos. I have no idea what the issues are but our talent level far far far exceeds the results. This is a great group of kids, I just hope they can work out the situation. If they play great as a team, they could beat anyone in the BTT.

Has nothing to do with talent. And has nothing to do with AllState.

Go Cats!
Click to expand...
Does infighting cause poor 3 point shooting?
 
If I had to guess, I'd say CCC and the coaching staff gave to leadership keys to McIntosh after Sanjay graduated. McIntosh isnt the same leader that Sanjay was. The entire team embodied his lunch pail to work, get dirty, win by any means mentality. McIntosh isnt as vocal, he leads by example. His value on the court is more finesse and flair, not grit and hard work. This permeates throughout the team.
At the same time, Lindsay feels slighted by this, believes he's the best player on the team. Tries to be that vocal leader, but hes kind of a diva. Not the guy you want your team to emulate. Law, Pardon, and Skelly feel its not their place to get in the middle of it.
Coaching staff sees this problem and in attempt to appease everyone, decides to name 4 captains. But still go about as if McItosh is the leader of the team. Season starts and Lindsay is putting up numbers, McIntosh isnt consistent. Lindsay begins to get angry with this, causing riffs within the team. More Diva coming out. Team chemistry is ruined, teams not playing for each other, especially when put through adversity. A lost season.
 
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Maybe, but that seems too simplistic. Sometimes you overperform one year, and then underperform the next. Miss some shots and you lose games you should not.
I expect to see some of the same "analysis next year in football, if we go 6-6. Fitz has lost the team etc. Of course could have easily been there this year, but we got lucky and won 3 games in OT.

I am glad we have some great recruits coming in, we are getting stronger, but this year has had some guys pressing, trying to be a hero and taking some bad 3 point shots, and not working for a good shot. We hope it will settle down, and beat some teams, but we may not have the lightning in the bottle of last year. We are still a threat, and can make some noise in the BTT. Lets not give up on them yet, and not give some internal turmoil story more credit than it is due....
 
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@charcat Has NU lost any games they deserved to win? I don't think so.

The closest is Ga Tech, but NU was garbage until about eight minutes remained.

Purdue is the other one - and, geez, it would have been sweet to get that one.

Meanwhile, NU only beat DePaul due to the opponent's atrocious free throw shooting, and scraped by but didn't play well against Illinois.

Frankly, the most frustrating part of this season is that, if anything, it feels lucky to even have the record they've got. It's not been a play here or there - it's been a season of sleepwalking. Just shocking.

Sanjay is an atypical recruit - a defense-first thug. (I don't think he was signed to play that role, but that's what he became.) I want more of those guys.

Hopefully Kopp or Nance comes in ready to throw an elbow or two. (Not Lathon - he won't have a backup!)
 
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charcat said:
Maybe, but that seems too simplistic. Sometimes you overperform one year, and then underperform the next. Miss some shots and you lose games you should not.
I expect to see some of the same "analysis next year in football, if we go 6-6. Fitz has lost the team etc. Of course could have easily been there this year, but we got lucky and won 3 games in OT.

I am glad we have some great recruits coming in, we are getting stronger, but this year has had some guys pressing, trying to be a hero and taking some bad 3 point shots, and not working for a good shot. We hope it will settle down, and beat some teams, but we may not have the lightning in the bottle of last year. We are still a threat, and can make some noise in the BTT. Lets not give up on them yet, and not give some internal turmoil story more credit than it is due....
Click to expand...
Char, I know what you're saying here, but I would posit that winning games in OT could be more a reflection of making key plays in the game's most critical moments than outright luck. Of course, we can't discount that old saying, "I'd rather be lucky than good!" ;)
 
vmloza34 said:
If I had to guess, I'd say CCC and the coaching staff gave to leadership keys to McIntosh after Sanjay graduated. McIntosh isnt the same leader that Sanjay was. The entire team embodied his lunch pail to work, get dirty, win by any means mentality. McIntosh isnt as vocal, he leads by example. His value on the court is more finesse and flair, not grit and hard work. This permeates throughout the team.
At the same time, Lindsay feels slighted by this, believes he's the best player on the team. Tries to be that vocal leader, but hes kind of a diva. Not the guy you want your team to emulate. Law, Pardon, and Skelly feel its not their place to get in the middle of it.
Coaching staff sees this problem and in attempt to appease everyone, decides to name 4 captains. But still go about as if McItosh is the leader of the team. Season starts and Lindsay is putting up numbers, McIntosh isnt consistent. Lindsay begins to get angry with this, causing riffs within the team. More Diva coming out. Team chemistry is ruined, teams not playing for each other, especially when put through adversity. A lost season.
Click to expand...
^^^This^^^

5 star comment above. Whatever the case, the personalities are not strong enough to get through adversity yet. It affects their shooting and they look like piss and moaners in some games. Heads down, flat, not fighting for loose balls, tossing 3 pt bricks. etc. I'm not willing to flush the entire season since I think we have the talent to win the BTT but we simply need Bmac and Scottie to get their heads in the game and do what they are suppose to do. And obviously, Brown pissed off CC in practice so he got canned from playing much at all. Coach Collins is the man, not good to piss him off.
 
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One question: What have we added to last year's team?: Gaines, but he's a frosh who's still learning and Falzon who is injured all the time. Meanwhile, We lost Sanjay, our best defender and glue guy who also had some key baskets in a lot of games, and Taphorn, who was a three point specialist who consistently delivered a spark off the bench. Add in Brown's regression (Injury?,Attitude?) and Ash and Benson's lack of offense and we have no reserve strength. That puts added pressure on the starters and adds to their wear and tear.
Meanwhile, looking at overachieving Ohio State the other night, they got production from EVERYONE they put in there (and they were not all 4-or-5 star players) so that even when their NBA bound star had an off night, they still won.
 
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Catreporter said:
One question: What have we added to last year's team?: Gaines, but he's a frosh who's still learning and Falzon who is injured all the time. Meanwhile, We lost Sanjay, our best defender and glue guy who also had some key baskets in a lot of games, and Taphorn, who was a three point specialist who consistently delivered a spark off the bench. Add in Brown's regression (Injury?,Attitude?) and Ash and Benson's lack of offense and we have no reserve strength. That puts added pressure on the starters and adds to their wear and tear.
Meanwhile, looking at overachieving Ohio State the other night, they got production from EVERYONE they put in there (and they were not all 4-or-5 star players) so that even when their NBA bound star had an off night, they still won.
Click to expand...
Pretty much sums it up. Good analysis.
 
We can play all the pop psychology games we want, but locker room hissy fits don't explain the TOTAL break down of this team in almost all phases.

On offense, the stats don't say it, but I agree this is a different offensive team. You can't open much up if you dont consistently shoot a three.

But more than offense, the cheap excuse of the arena or a locker room soap opera, Styre is right when he tries to point us to the vast statistical difference between last year's defense and this year. That should be item numero uno when talking about problems this year.

Think about two scenarios:

1) Watch the help defense compared to last year. I'm becoming more convinced this is where Lumpkin had his greatest impact. It's non-existent this year.

2) Think about any defense with BMac, Lindsey and Falzon. That's a whole lot of nothing that is tough to cover up. And I'm not sure Skelly adds much more.
 
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I just don't see Brown and Benson getting anywhere near the same opportunity to contribute as they did last year.

Clear that the same chemistry isn't there and it's costing NU games. I guess that book will be written in the off season.

90% of discussion in college basketball is around offense. But games are won and lost on the defensive end as the Sanjay loss has taught us.

We're comparing team shooting percentages from last year to this year. But there are three or four guys who are critical and either haven't improved their overall games, or, have slid back.
 
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Ash and Law preach defense. Actually,Ash has shot close to Law percentage wise also. Would not be surprised to see Ash run the offense next year at all!
 
Sec.112 said:
2) Think about any defense with BMac, Lindsey and Falzon. That's a whole lot of nothing that is tough to cover up. And I'm not sure Skelly adds much more.
Click to expand...

I’m not sure who grades out as the worst statistically, but Skelly is by far the easiest NU defender to get out of position. He’s a senior and he’s still making freshman-level mistakes defensively. Which is a shame, because when he has his head in the game he’s a competent defender.
 
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Here we are talking about how a bunch of new guys as freshman will take all the minutes away from guys who have spent 2+ years in the program...I wish that were to be true, but unlikely. I would rather have the ball in the hands of someone who has played a year or two of college ball and get the new guys get acclimated. Freshmen point guards are scary, clueless freshmen make lots of mistakes...
 
charcat said:
Here we are talking about how a bunch of new guys as freshman will take all the minutes away from guys who have spent 2+ years in the program...I wish that were to be true, but unlikely. I would rather have the ball in the hands of someone who has played a year or two of college ball and get the new guys get acclimated. Freshmen point guards are scary, clueless freshmen make lots of mistakes...
Click to expand...
As apparently do Sophs, Jrs, and Seniors
 
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Medill90 said:
I just don't see Brown and Benson getting anywhere near the same opportunity to contribute as they did last year.

Clear that the same chemistry isn't there and it's costing NU games. I guess that book will be written in the off season.

90% of discussion in college basketball is around offense. But games are won and lost on the defensive end as the Sanjay loss has taught us.

We're comparing team shooting percentages from last year to this year. But there are three or four guys who are critical and either haven't improved their overall games, or, have slid back.
Click to expand...
If Brown isn't going to get the time then he needs to be "Vasserized". I suspect that is what may happen if Collins doesn't think he fits. Collins forced Vasser out and he will force anyone out. I support whatever Collins decides. Of course, Brown also has a decision. A player of his talent imo isn't going to stick around on the end of the bench with Malnetti and Charlie.
 
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Sec.112 said:
We can play all the pop psychology games we want, but locker room hissy fits don't explain the TOTAL break down of this team in almost all phases.

On offense, the stats don't say it, but I agree this is a different offensive team. You can't open much up if you dont consistently shoot a three.

But more than offense, the cheap excuse of the arena or a locker room soap opera, Styre is right when he tries to point us to the vast statistical difference between last year's defense and this year. That should be item numero uno when talking about problems this year.

Think about two scenarios:

1) Watch the help defense compared to last year. I'm becoming more convinced this is where Lumpkin had his greatest impact. It's non-existent this year.

2) Think about any defense with BMac, Lindsey and Falzon. That's a whole lot of nothing that is tough to cover up. And I'm not sure Skelly adds much more.
Click to expand...

It can get pretty painful watching Pardon try to close out on guys roaming free in a corner because (missed assignments) while he also has to cover the guy in the post.
 
Turk said:
If Brown isn't going to get the time then he needs to be "Vasserized". I suspect that is what may happen if Collins doesn't think he fits. Collins forced Vasser out and he will force anyone out. I support whatever Collins decides. Of course, Brown also has a decision. A player of his talent imo isn't going to stick around on the end of the bench with Malnetti and Charlie.
Click to expand...
He’s gone after the season ends, imho. Likely PAC Ten and a run and gun offense! Starting five next year looks to be Ash, Pardon,Law, Falzon, and Gaines!
 
charcat said:
Here we are talking about how a bunch of new guys as freshman will take all the minutes away from guys who have spent 2+ years in the program...I wish that were to be true, but unlikely. I would rather have the ball in the hands of someone who has played a year or two of college ball and get the new guys get acclimated. Freshmen point guards are scary, clueless freshmen make lots of mistakes...
Click to expand...
Think Mac looked anything other than scared or clueless when he started his freshman year.
 
TejasCat said:
Falzon is a better defender than Skelly this year?
Click to expand...
Yup. Even a guy who can barely run has been better. Don't believe me? Check out any game tape and count him many times Skelly watches a guy receive an alley oop and dunk on him or has a man he is guarding (or supposed to be guarding) otherwise,flat out beat him. Then compare to how many times this has happened to Falzon.
 
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