The difference between good and bad for NU

[Medill '03]

I've been thinking about NU's struggles in recent years. NU has often lacked explosive playmakers at WR. The LBs have often been a step or two slow. The OL has often failed to get a big push or protect the passer. It's not like NU has always had a reliable kicker. Often we've clamored for the OC to be fired. Even in good years. Fitzgerald has won many, many games. What's the difference, then, between success and failure?

Well, you might say it's Hank. And I won't argue. JON has been a disaster. But I don't think that's the main reason.

NU for years benefited from consistent QB play. And many of those QBs have been mobile. Whether in HS recruiting or transfers, FItz has simply missed on way too many QBs. Thorson obviously stands out as an exception. Ramsey was a nearly ideal one-year fix. But the freshmen recruits have almost universally failed otherwise. It's not like they go on to success as transfers, either. And the transfers to NU haven't stood out either. Johnson looked like a program-changer—on paper. Hilinski just isn't accurate or mobile enough, and he turns the ball over too much. He can't make up for weaknesses elsewhere on the team.

I don't understand why Fitz can't seem to land anyone like Kustok/Baz/Persa/Bacher/Thorson any longer. But more than anything else, this position seems to define the major step back in this program for three out of the last four years. It's not like NU's QB play has been average. Often it's been among the worst in the nation, and I don't think improving the OL or WRs would make up that much difference compared to getting QB right. Something's fundamentally off in NU's evaluations. Recruits like Yates and Whittaker and Smith never seem to even have a chance at this level. I'm not blaming Fitz for missing on McCarthy, though I think NU would be a totally different program with him in the shotgun right guy. But it's not the guys NU misses that worry me. It's the guys who NU actually lands.

You can't be a developmental program when you don't know how to identify or develop reliable QBs.

 

[hoosboot]

I've been thinking about NU's struggles in recent years. NU has often lacked explosive playmakers at WR. The LBs have often been a step or two slow. The OL has often failed to get a big push or protect the passer. It's not like NU has always had a reliable kicker. Often we've clamored for the OC to be fired. Even in good years. Fitzgerald has won many, many games. What's the difference, then, between success and failure?

Well, you might say it's Hank. And I won't argue. JON has been a disaster. But I don't think that's the main reason.

NU for years benefited from consistent QB play. And many of those QBs have been mobile. Whether in HS recruiting or transfers, FItz has simply missed on way too many QBs. Thorson obviously stands out as an exception. Ramsey was a nearly ideal one-year fix. But the freshmen recruits have almost universally failed otherwise. It's not like they go on to success as transfers, either. And the transfers to NU haven't stood out either. Johnson looked like a program-changer—on paper. Hilinski just isn't accurate or mobile enough, and he turns the ball over too much. He can't make up for weaknesses elsewhere on the team.

I don't understand why Fitz can't seem to land anyone like Kustok/Baz/Persa/Bacher/Thorson any longer. But more than anything else, this position seems to define the major step back in this program for three out of the last four years. It's not like NU's QB play has been average. Often it's been among the worst in the nation, and I don't think improving the OL or WRs would make up that much difference compared to getting QB right. Something's fundamentally off in NU's evaluations. Recruits like Yates and Whittaker and Smith never seem to even have a chance at this level. I'm not blaming Fitz for missing on McCarthy, though I think NU would be a totally different program with him in the shotgun right guy. But it's not the guys NU misses that worry me. It's the guys who NU actually lands.

You can't be a developmental program when you don't know how to identify or develop reliable QBs.

100% agree. For the style that Fitz seems to want to play, NU seems best served as a program that is starting a QB in his 3rd or 4th (after a redshirt) year in the program. Guys are backups their 2nd year and have time for the game to slow down for them to make the right reads and get the offense into the right plays at the right time. Hillinski has made some plays, but he's also probably swung the pendulum the other direction with the abundance of turnovers. Northwestern's formula when the team has had a successful season over the last decade has been to stay on schedule on offense, bend but don't break on defense, win 3rd down, and win the turnover battle. That hasn't been the case this season so the results aren't all that surprising.

 

[MotownMedilldo]

The analysts who call NU a developmental program are spot-on. There is such a small margin for error. And when there's any disruption, Hank retiring, QBs not panning out, key players going into the transfer portal, this season and last season are the result.

 

[phatcat]

There have been a number of posts complaining about poor QB recruiting and development. In CFB, even in the B1G, you can only get so far with mediocre or ill-fitting QB play. It is a critical position, and the most important position on nearly every team, either because of good performance or lack thereof.

We've had ONE QB recruit pan out in the last decade. That's laughable. On the transfer side, I cannot fault the pedigrees, but HuJo and Hilinski were always going to have difficulty behind our usually-porous pass protection. I don't mind using the portal, but better get someone who can run for their life..

It's too long a pattern to be bad luck, especially since it isn't as if we had Larkin type injuries at QB. It's either poor recruiting or poor coaching. What else can it be?

 

[Medill '03]

There have been a number of posts complaining about poor QB recruiting and development. In CFB, even in the B1G, you can only get so far with mediocre or ill-fitting QB play. It is a critical position, and the most important position on nearly every team, either because of good performance or lack thereof.

We've had ONE QB recruit pan out in the last decade. That's laughable. On the transfer side, I cannot fault the pedigrees, but HuJo and Hilinski were always going to have difficulty behind our usually-porous pass protection. I don't mind using the portal, but better get someone who can run for their life..

It's too long a pattern to be bad luck, especially since it isn't as if we had Larkin type injuries at QB. It's either poor recruiting or poor coaching. What else can it be?

I can understand going after Johnson and Hilinski. It worked out with Ramsey, after all. What I don't understand is why no first-year recruit since Thorson has looked even close to capable of leading the team to a high-level bowl game. And I don't know how they can have a ton of confidence in Sullivan, considering he's not even getting a sniff while the team loses to Duke, SIU, and Miami at home. I have to think they'll be back yet again trying to find another program's castoff as the QB. Maybe they'll find another Ramsey.

 

[peatymeanis]

I can understand going after Johnson and Hilinski. It worked out with Ramsey, after all. What I don't understand is why no first-year recruit since Thorson has looked even close to capable of leading the team to a high-level bowl game. And I don't know how they can have a ton of confidence in Sullivan, considering he's not even getting a sniff while the team loses to Duke, SIU, and Miami at home. I have to think they'll be back yet again trying to find another program's castoff as the QB. Maybe they'll find another Ramsey.

Part of it is that Fitz has spent years poo-pooing offense and scoring points. What talented QB wants to come play in this system? Everyone knows if Fitz had his way he'd want to win every game 6-3. News flash: talented QBs like to score points and want to play in a system that enables them.

 

[PlayStrongPlayProud]

There have been a number of posts complaining about poor QB recruiting and development. In CFB, even in the B1G, you can only get so far with mediocre or ill-fitting QB play. It is a critical position, and the most important position on nearly every team, either because of good performance or lack thereof.

We've had ONE QB recruit pan out in the last decade. That's laughable. On the transfer side, I cannot fault the pedigrees, but HuJo and Hilinski were always going to have difficulty behind our usually-porous pass protection. I don't mind using the portal, but better get someone who can run for their life..

It's too long a pattern to be bad luck, especially since it isn't as if we had Larkin type injuries at QB. It's either poor recruiting or poor coaching. What else can it be?

It's the result of Fitzball. Playing QB or WR in a run-centric offense (especially in today's flashy world of CFB), is not that attractive. Fitz wants to grind out an 80 yard drive that eats up the clock, not an offense that marches down the field and scores quickly. QBs and WRs want to show off their skill set (and pad stats). The two aren't compatible. In that context, it's not surprising that NU can't recruit elite QBs or WRs. And the QB and WR positions work in tandem -- you need both, can't just have one. Its too easy for opposing schools to recruit against NU for those skill positions.

Thorson was the exception because he was a talented local athlete (who played WR also in HS). You can't build a sustainable program recruiting local QB talent alone.

 

[phatcat]

I can understand going after Johnson and Hilinski. It worked out with Ramsey, after all. What I don't understand is why no first-year recruit since Thorson has looked even close to capable of leading the team to a high-level bowl game. And I don't know how they can have a ton of confidence in Sullivan, considering he's not even getting a sniff while the team loses to Duke, SIU, and Miami at home. I have to think they'll be back yet again trying to find another program's castoff as the QB. Maybe they'll find another Ramsey.

Don't worry, the experts on The Rock are sure that Lausch will lead us to the B1G championship. Mostly because he had an ND offer...for baseball

 

[Katatonic]

As I've stated prior, McC's r&r system required QBs who knew his playbook well and could read the D, thus preventing young QBs from being able to make a splash (exception was Siemian who is gifted in those areas); also required the same of WRs, so that's why we never saw frosh WRs making an impact like they have been doing for other programs.

Persa, all too often, had to make something out of nothing - so little credit should be given to McC.

Siemian wasn't used to the best of his talents, but he also made McC's O look better than it was.

But the years of declining production and boring/bland schemes has resulted in QB and WR recruits eschewing NU.

While having a better/more talented QB helps, scheme/playbook and the O-line are still very important.

Despite being a rookie, Pickett is a clear upgrade from Trubisky (not so much from a physical/arm aspect, but in his ability to survey the field, etc.).

But the Steelers O will continue to be hampered by Canada's predictable playcalling and the O-line.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Talent identification at QB isn't only a Northwestern / Fitzgerald problem...

The 2nd best QB in the Big Ten last year -Aidan O'Connell - got one scholarship offer out of high school - Wheaton College, in suburban Wheaton, IL. He decided at the last minute to accept a preferred walk-on position at Purdue.

What makes O'Connell a good QB? HE CAN SEE THE FIELD DURING A PLAY.

Thats not the easiest thing to identify on the recruiting trail, but it is one of the most important skills a quarterback needs to succeed in college football.

Its not like O'Connell was under the radar either. His high school team won the 8A Illinois championship, going undefeated in his first/only season as a starter... he put up big numbers, despite standing a wiry 6'3" 170.

As his high school coach put it - “The kid was amazing in terms of his understanding of the game, the work ethic, how smart he is. He understands who should get the ball and when they should get it and he can put it there."

 

[Katatonic]

What makes O'Connell a good QB? HE CAN SEE THE FIELD DURING A PLAY.

Thats not the easiest thing to identify on the recruiting trail, but it is one of the most important skills a quarterback needs to succeed in college football.

Not the easiest, but can be done.

Reason why Reid and the Chiefs were so high on Mahomes (aside from his physical talents) was due to his FB/QB IQ.

But yeah, too many decision-makers focus on the physical attributes.

O'Connell is like the quintessential NU QB; not a good look for Fitz and Co. for missing on a local prospect (again).

 

[RevCat]

There have been a number of posts complaining about poor QB recruiting and development. In CFB, even in the B1G, you can only get so far with mediocre or ill-fitting QB play. It is a critical position, and the most important position on nearly every team, either because of good performance or lack thereof.

We've had ONE QB recruit pan out in the last decade. That's laughable. On the transfer side, I cannot fault the pedigrees, but HuJo and Hilinski were always going to have difficulty behind our usually-porous pass protection. I don't mind using the portal, but better get someone who can run for their life..

It's too long a pattern to be bad luck, especially since it isn't as if we had Larkin type injuries at QB. It's either poor recruiting or poor coaching. What else can it be?

Ill fitting is an apt phrase. Kustok, Baz, Kafka, Persa, Colter could all run. Thorson, Siemian and Bacher were more classic drop back passers, but they all could scramble to varying degrees when pressured. The running kept the defense honest. And burned them when they weren't. Brady-esque (in terms of mobility) drop back passers do not work in this program. (HuJo, RH and from an earlier era Tim Hughes.) Press coverage and 9 in the box with ears pinned back , are all it takes to shut us down.

I remember Andrew Marty! (Our 5th string QB) burning a bowl bound Illini team all day long because they couldn't account for him-and when they did, the running lanes opened up. Azema the DB ran for 100+ and Niro the wideout ran for 80. Marty also hit 100. Sure, unless your QB is special, the higher talent level opponents can stop this kind of offense. But the mid to lower teams will have a tougher time, because they can't run the same defense play after play.

 

[BigCatCT]

I'd like to see Northwestern using Calvin Johnson or Evan Smith to spell Hilinski at QB periodically to mix things and offer a dimension of having speed to run the option or scramble for first downs when the pass pro breaks down. I'd also rather have either of them them running the Wildcat over Porter. I get it that they are undersized height-wise but so is Porter and at least they are a threat to pass.

 

[phatcat]

I'd like to see Northwestern using Calvin Johnson or Evan Smith to spell Hilinski at QB periodically to mix things and offer a dimension of having speed to run the option or scramble for first downs when the pass pro breaks down. I'd also rather have either of them them running the Wildcat over Porter. I get it that they are undersized height-wise but so is Porter and at least they are a threat to pass.

The Wildcat = Lose A Turn. I think it has gone for net negative yards this season

 

[Eurocat]

I don't understand why Fitz can't seem to land anyone like Kustok/Baz/Persa/Bacher/Thorson any longer.

Weren't they all Coach Walker recruits apart from Thorson?

 

[Medill '03]

Weren't they all Coach Walker recruits apart from Thorson?

Correct. But Fitz also had success with Siemian and Colter. It’s really an issue since Thorson was recruited.

 

[phatcat]

Correct. But Fitz also had success with Siemian and Colter. It’s really an issue since Thorson was recruited.

More like since Siemian was recruited. Thorson is only developed recruit since Trevor (2010 recruit)

 

[ajr938]

Totally agree. Walker was a far better judge of talent than Fitz and his team have been. I also think Walker ran a more progressive offense to level the talent playing field. We cannot afford to keep on missing on our recruits like we have been. Once the new stadium is built the only excuse left will be academics,

 

[CatManTrue]

There have been several good QBs in the Chicago area that NU didn't recruit. Guys that were interested in playing for NU but NU wasn't interested. So, they walk on at Purdue and MSU, or go to EIU before moving on to the NFL.

Jimmy G didn’t show interest in NU per Rivals.

The 2-star was interested in Illinois & Iowa. Both also passed.