THE PLAY: Now let's bury the Carmody/Collins hatchet.
- Thread starter NJcatsfan
- Start date
I admit to strong feelings about Duke, though I am not exactly sure why.
I didn't "hate" the Collins hire. I have always liked Doug Collins, enjoyed his role as analyst, and thought that if Chris was like his "old man" he wasn't the typical Duke "douche".
I hope we give Chris everything he feel he needs to stay here and create his own legacy of Final Fours and National Championships. We can someday name our place "Collins Court", and we can replace Duke as the small, elite private university that dominates the basketball landscape for years to come.
Go 'Cats!
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Why is it important to you who D_C_B is? Or are you just creating conflict because your other thread didn't go as planned?
You've peaked my curiosity. So I fished around. I had a hard time finding anybody who is not a well know member around here. It seems to be a pretty low bar.
I know you disagree with me about BC deserving credit for this. I want to keep his credit to what he did. You seem to want to extend that. And also extend it to some sort of I don't even know what.
This isn't worth geting into a thing about. I loved the BC Princeton offense. I just don't see what that has to us having more blocked shots this year than we've had in the last 10. These are two very different teams. They really couldn't be any more different. That's the only reason I am questioning this idea that one is built upon the other. If you'd prefer that I say no more, I'm happy to oblige. I've said all I intended to say and then some.
I know you disagree with me about BC deserving credit for this. I want to keep his credit to what he did. You seem to want to extend that. And also extend it to some sort of I don't even know what.
This isn't worth geting into a thing about. I loved the BC Princeton offense. I just don't see what that has to us having more blocked shots this year than we've had in the last 10. These are two very different teams. They really couldn't be any more different. That's the only reason I am questioning this idea that one is built upon the other. If you'd prefer that I say no more, I'm happy to oblige. I've said all I intended to say and then some.
You automatically become a well-known member after a certain number of posts, no conspiracy theory necessary
Jeez--he (or she) just sounded like Stupor in a couple of posts that's all. Plus, I don't think you are anyone to lecture on creating conflict.
With regard to my other thread not going as planned, there was no plan. My OP was simply an observation at a given moment in time, not meant in any way to disparage the accomplishments Collins or the team, or build up Carmody in relation to him. However, it did bring up a lot of strong feelings about both, both positive and negative.
Also let's remember Rohr and Glass. They both had pretty good runs at NU, against some top of the line non-conference foes. West Virginia, Kentucky and Kansas, with a guy named Chamberlain.
Do you have a really well-known member? Never mind. I seriously do not want to know.
For some reason I feel the urge to offer a bad analogy on this.
Carmody was that patient, kind, understanding---but ultimately unfulfilling--girlfriend (or boyfriend) you took up with after two decades of crappy marriage. You tried your best to make that marriage work, trying different therapists and communication styles, but ultimately two decades of disappointment was too much. You divorced, and by chance you met up with an unusual but grounded person who showed you that life could be different. With her (or him), you started to see the world differently, not dreading evenings out, the silly fights, and inattentiveness. She (he) was a bit unorthodox, with different views, but she (he) was patient, caring, and a good teacher---exactly what you needed. You saw that life could be "normal." It was great.
For awhile.
But over time you saw that the relationship had limits. You began to feel that things were "topping out." You were back on your feet, but you wanted to reach higher. And you felt that she (he), despite the many gifts she had brought to you, was not the partner you needed.
Enter the Next One. By chance you met her (him), but you got the feeling that she was sent to you. She had the vision, the energy, the smarts, and the verve to dare you to go higher. You opened up your heart and your mind to her, and she took you to a new place. It all happened so fast, but you feel that you were made to be together. You feel very lucky. You are alive after living through decades of death.
Carmody was that patient, kind, understanding---but ultimately unfulfilling--girlfriend (or boyfriend) you took up with after two decades of crappy marriage. You tried your best to make that marriage work, trying different therapists and communication styles, but ultimately two decades of disappointment was too much. You divorced, and by chance you met up with an unusual but grounded person who showed you that life could be different. With her (or him), you started to see the world differently, not dreading evenings out, the silly fights, and inattentiveness. She (he) was a bit unorthodox, with different views, but she (he) was patient, caring, and a good teacher---exactly what you needed. You saw that life could be "normal." It was great.
For awhile.
But over time you saw that the relationship had limits. You began to feel that things were "topping out." You were back on your feet, but you wanted to reach higher. And you felt that she (he), despite the many gifts she had brought to you, was not the partner you needed.
Enter the Next One. By chance you met her (him), but you got the feeling that she was sent to you. She had the vision, the energy, the smarts, and the verve to dare you to go higher. You opened up your heart and your mind to her, and she took you to a new place. It all happened so fast, but you feel that you were made to be together. You feel very lucky. You are alive after living through decades of death.
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Maybe, but we'll never know. People are entitled to their opinions about how Carmody may have contributed to the program and whether his 13 year tenure represented any sort of progression and whether it was a prerequisite to CCC coming and him being successful. I believe there may be some truth to it, but to credit Carmody at all for what has transpired here goes beyond the pale for me. Gary Barnett came in inheriting a Francis Peay program and turned it around largely on the basis of bringing in him players and moulding them into something completely different to win at Northwestern in a way that had never been done before in our lifetimes. CCC did the same. I respect that some people want to thank Carmody for what he did here, and want to believe that he had something to do with this moment. But, I think CCC deserves the lion's share of the credit. Like 99.9%.
Carmody recruited Tap.
Tap made the pass that clinched the Tournament bid.
Jim Nance said it was the best pass he's seen this year, Brady included.
Thank God for Bill Carmody.
Fair enough. Thanks to Carmody for Tap and Sanjay. I still don't think if we gave Carmody 17 years instead of 13, that we'd be here. While if CCC had been coming in off the KON era or the Byrdsong era or the Foster era, I think we'd still be going dancing. Actually, with Evan Eschmeyer, we would have been dancing in year 2 instead of 4. But, again, none of us will ever know for sure, now, will we?
CCC taught him how to throw that pass.
No, Kain Colter did.
I was kidding [your humor meter is out of calibration again]. What Collins has accomplished in 4 years is amazing. If he isn't National COTY it is a travesty.
Refresh my memory; was Kain the QB that had a better completion % and career passer rating than that guy ECat is always saying should have kept him at WR full-time? Or am I thinking of someone else?
You're thinking of someone else. I'm thinking of the WR who we decided somehow to put behind center. And could only complete 60% of his 2 yard dinks and dunks.
69.4% as oppposed to 58.9% for Trevor. And those "dinks and dunks" resulted in a yards-per-attempt that was somehow greater than Trevor's (6.8 to 6.4). How did that happen?
But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/kain-colter-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/trevor-siemian-1.html
Oh heck, why not? What could be more at home on a BC/CCC thread than a Trevor/Kain debate? Seems to fit!
So which year are we talking about here, 2012 or 2013? It seems like Mikewebb has you, ECat? Those numbers are pretty cut and dried.
(In fairness, though, I'm not so sure that stats alone can tell a full story here given the situational differences between when these two were asked to throw the ball, what sorts of throws they were asked to make, and what sorts of catches needed to be made.)
So which year are we talking about here, 2012 or 2013? It seems like Mikewebb has you, ECat? Those numbers are pretty cut and dried.
(In fairness, though, I'm not so sure that stats alone can tell a full story here given the situational differences between when these two were asked to throw the ball, what sorts of throws they were asked to make, and what sorts of catches needed to be made.)
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The original post was an attempt to bridge the BC and CC eras. It seems the BC supporters have moved on , embracing CC and NU's success.
However, the BC detractors have not done the same. I was not able to evaluate NU basketball during the Falk through O'Neill years but with the advent of DirecTv, I was able to reconnect with NU sports, including basketball.
BC's teams were so devoid of talent that his moderate success was a minor miracle. I can't comment on NU's talent prior to BC but if it was far superior then BC's liability was his "disdain" for recruiting. I am not sure any coach could have been more successful with the talent available to him
I have no idea about the inner workings of NU basketball but it was obvious JP was not a big BC fan. Maybe someone ,with inside information, knows if CC was promised facility upgrades and greater academic freedom than BC. (I have always favored the latter) If BC and CC were given the same "level playing field" , it is clear that CC has assembled more talent on this team than BC ever had. BC's teams could never play M2M defense whereas today's NU has the athleticism and length to do so.
BC's teams could not play "traditional" basketball. Many criticize his lack of emphasis on defense and rebounding but that only reflected his recognition that his teams could do neither. BC had to employ the 1 -3-1 zone and defensive rebounding suffered
I am excited about NU basketball but have no problem recognizing the contributions of BC. If CC's success has been achieved with the same rules, he has already surpassed BC. If the guidelines have been changed then NU's administration has finally recognized the importance of NCAA success in FB and BB
However, the BC detractors have not done the same. I was not able to evaluate NU basketball during the Falk through O'Neill years but with the advent of DirecTv, I was able to reconnect with NU sports, including basketball.
BC's teams were so devoid of talent that his moderate success was a minor miracle. I can't comment on NU's talent prior to BC but if it was far superior then BC's liability was his "disdain" for recruiting. I am not sure any coach could have been more successful with the talent available to him
I have no idea about the inner workings of NU basketball but it was obvious JP was not a big BC fan. Maybe someone ,with inside information, knows if CC was promised facility upgrades and greater academic freedom than BC. (I have always favored the latter) If BC and CC were given the same "level playing field" , it is clear that CC has assembled more talent on this team than BC ever had. BC's teams could never play M2M defense whereas today's NU has the athleticism and length to do so.
BC's teams could not play "traditional" basketball. Many criticize his lack of emphasis on defense and rebounding but that only reflected his recognition that his teams could do neither. BC had to employ the 1 -3-1 zone and defensive rebounding suffered
I am excited about NU basketball but have no problem recognizing the contributions of BC. If CC's success has been achieved with the same rules, he has already surpassed BC. If the guidelines have been changed then NU's administration has finally recognized the importance of NCAA success in FB and BB
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