This is it. After this season, it's rebuilding time
- Thread starter Turk
- Start date
The season will tell, but who do you think is definitely better? I'm not challenging you, but it seems to me that part of the decision to leave early depends on the competition with in a class. If it is a strong QB class then waiting a year might be beneficial. I don't think you want to be the tenth QB selected, or do you?
Can someone show me, aside from Mel Kiper's rankings, where CT is even in the top ten QBs for next year's draft? I mean I know the guy has the height and frame and was invited to the Manning camp, and is likely a 2nd team or AM all Big Ten QB, but unless he leads the Big Ten in passing categories or has like 2 INTs and 20+ TDs and the Cats are playing in a BCS bowl, I still don't see him being any more than a 6th round pick or lower in next year's draft. And I am NOT dogging on the guy- I love Clayton. But I just don't see the evidence yet.
If someone can find a few reputable sources to prove me wrong please do but I don't know that he would risk NOT being drafted when he can get a Masters Degree and almost certainly be drafted after his fifth year.
If someone can find a few reputable sources to prove me wrong please do but I don't know that he would risk NOT being drafted when he can get a Masters Degree and almost certainly be drafted after his fifth year.
Here is one list that doesn't have CT as one of the top 20. FWIW, they have Godwin #13 and JJTBC #15.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2018RB.php
CBS doesn't have CT in their top 10 but have GI #5
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2018/FS
Something called "Hero Sports" have GI and JJTBC as 2nd rounders but no CT:
http://herosports.com/nfl-draft/big-ten-top-2018-draft-prospects-nfl-draft-ajaj
Draftwire.com doesn't list him among their top 12.
"Drafttek.com" doesn't have CT but do have Richard Lagow (??).
http://www.drafttek.com/2018-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-QBs.asp
Draftblaster is the only one other than Kiper I could find that even has him drafted, in the 5-7 round:
Scouting Report:
Coming off a year of noticeable improvement, Thorson has the size and will be coming off his third year of starting experience when entering the draft. Accurate with short to mid range passes, and has a very good feel for a short, controlled passing game. Able to scramble when needed, with good running skills, but doesn’t panic in the pocket. Will need to display more long range accuracy and ability to complete more of the “NFL throws.”
http://www.draftblaster.com/2018-NFL-Draft/schools/northwestern/clayton-thorson-qb-northwestern/
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That's what I was thinking. I haven't seen him make too many "NFL" throws consistently.
Again, I wish him the best this season and want to see him grow, but I just don't see that much of a leap to where it would be beneficial for him to leave early, maybe get drafted as a late round pick and then become third string or possibly get cut. Clayton just seems like he is the competitor who wants to win something with his team before personal wealth.
Plus, take this for what it's worth, but Peyton Manning is his football idol (thus #18) and if he talks to him at all after next season which I am sure he will, I bet Peyton would have some good words from personal experience about staying his final year (though, yes, I get it that Clayton will be. Fifth year senior next year and Peyton was a fourth year senior).
At any rate, let's get this season going and hope for LOTS to enjoy and the elevation of this program.
Go Cats!!
Again, I wish him the best this season and want to see him grow, but I just don't see that much of a leap to where it would be beneficial for him to leave early, maybe get drafted as a late round pick and then become third string or possibly get cut. Clayton just seems like he is the competitor who wants to win something with his team before personal wealth.
Plus, take this for what it's worth, but Peyton Manning is his football idol (thus #18) and if he talks to him at all after next season which I am sure he will, I bet Peyton would have some good words from personal experience about staying his final year (though, yes, I get it that Clayton will be. Fifth year senior next year and Peyton was a fourth year senior).
At any rate, let's get this season going and hope for LOTS to enjoy and the elevation of this program.
Go Cats!!
Highly speculative statements about CT aside, I think the overall depth of the program provides some insurance that we won't tank to 3-4 wins in the post-CT/JJTBC era. Granted, we had clunkers in 2013 and 2014, so anything is possible. But I see the young talent at RB, LB, and the secondary and feel that the program will be able to find ways to win despite inexperience at QB.
The evidence is much more on tape than in the stats book. He has all the tools that NFL talent evaluators want, which seems to have become even more important than actual stats in today's NFL.
IMO, if we win 9 games or better this season and CT will go somewhere in the first 3 rounds- yes! I hope he goes pro. And I hope he wins 10 games or better as a starter in the NFL for 10 years or more. He gave me/us a lot to cheer about for his first two years starting for us- and hopefully, this 2017 season will be his finest. CT- go for it and make your millions! Thank-you and have fun!
USA Today agrees with you predicting NU at 8-4 (5-4).
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...all-2017-records-all-130-fbs-teams/528788001/
Not sure how or why team wins would have much (if any) impact on his NFL prospects. Trubisky's 8-4 (5-3) in his lone year starting didn't impact his draft stock much, nor Goff's 8-5 (4-5), nor Mahomes' 5-7 (3-6)...
Still REALLY hoping that Clayton is back for 2018. An already-tough year would be pretty daunting while breaking in a new QB.
USA Today agrees with you predicting NU at 8-4 (5-4).
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...all-2017-records-all-130-fbs-teams/528788001/
Still not sure I understand why preseason prognosticators like Nebraska so much.
USA Today agrees with you predicting NU at 8-4 (5-4).
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...all-2017-records-all-130-fbs-teams/528788001/
As much as we like to say this is the year we win the West, the vast majority of pundits don't see it this way. Almost everyone, has Whisky winning the West. Nebby gets props for the talent they have brought in, but gets knocked down for experience. Iowa seems to be better when they are supposed to suck. I think it will be tough for any team in the West to run the table!
BTN Guys "should" know the Conference better than the national guys especially head to head.
Of any team other than PSU that I'd like to beat this year, Wisconsin would be it. One of my favorite memories of seeing games in person was the year we beat them at home with Tolzien their QB. It came down to the wire, but we got an INT to secure the victory. Wasn't that Hankowitz's first year as our DC- he had just gotten fired from Wis/DC? I was totally rooting for our defense to kick some butt- and they did. Tolzien went to the same hs (fremd) as me- so that game/win was purely delightful for me.
No matter what happens this season or in the off season, we will be fine. We will not miss a Bowl game for at least the next four years.
The only way Clayton stays imo is if he regresses. I don't see that happening, especially under McCall. Once McCall gets a QB dialed in, the offense just flies. I'm critical of our OL but we have had worse and have had great production, given good and experienced skill set players at QB and RB. My concern will be the edge in our defense. I think we take a tweak step backwards this year on D but that our Offense covers. This thread has some saying we will lose to Nebraska. Maybe we do but I like our chances. I'm hopeful we beat PSU and Wisconsin but if we split those two then look out. I will be naturally upset if we lost both, as a fan, but I'd understand given the opponent. But, I don't see any reason why Clayton would stick around. His NFL stock is money already and he is getting married, etc. NU was fine before him and will be fine after him when he is throwing TD's in the NFL.
2015 was supposed to be a rebuilding team, and they ended up winning 10 games.
They had other strengths. Maybe we will have that next year if we have to develop a new QB. Persa didn't take long to learn but the growing pains with Kafka and CT were tough. I don't know the history of our underclassmen but I know Kafka barely knew the QB position and wasn't CT a wide receiver early on? Persa was pure QB walking in. Same with Baz but he had serious growing pains as well. We had a great luxury with our defense during CT's freshman season. Maybe other units will offer us better chances next year. Gotta get through this year first but nothing wrong with an eye towards the future.
I really like what I have seen from Aiden Smith. We will be fine. Clayton helps these young quarterbacks. Clayton off the field will be missed as much as on the field. Great leader, example, and character.
Good to hear. Especially the leader part. That was one of Alviti's qualities as well but he had someone named Clayton in front of him. I'm interested to see who our offense leader is this year, Jackson? Dickerson? or CT? or all. We knew who our offensive leader was when Baz was out there and ZK, and persa. Not sure about TS or CT being the strong leaders that the others were, not that they have to be. Just didn't get that vibe from observation on the field that either was/is the charismatic leader of the offense. Again, not a necessity but, as a fan, I wonder who our offensive leader may be out on the field. I bet and hope CT takes the role this year and takes charge in and out of the huddle.
Hard to tell these things from my Comfy Couch but I felt the same thing. Not much emotion evident from those two QBs. In his first year, it was reasonable for CT given his youth on the team. Last year, I felt it appeared he had at least found his role with AC and the receivers but Fitz ended up stepping in as the emotional spark plug for the season. My hope is that CT learned from his experience with Carr and his over all maturity how to be a more influential leader. My fear is AC was such a dynamic superhero that the production increases came more from him than CT.
1) Didn't you kind of answer your own question about who will lead the offense? Trevor had the team's buy-in in his own way. I suspect Thorson is much the same. They're not "rah-rag," but guys respect them.
2) What huddle? Haven't seen one of those in Evanston for years.
I'm sure guys respect them. Not necessarily talking about animated rah rah guys. I'm talking about charismatic leader that players believe in to get that game winning TD.
There are some that have strong leadership qualities just like in anything. One of my favs, non NU, was Brian Sipe. Very calm and private and non animated but the team believed in him. Usually that only comes with being an upper classman as players grow confident in CT. Since he is a 3 year starter this year, I think he will be the natural leader this year on offense.
And I'm saying that I know Siemian had that, plus would wager that Thorson has that. Seems to me that "charismatic" is code for "yelling and screaming a lot" or at least "shows noticeable signs that fans can see," which isn't always the case. Different guys lead in different ways.
absolutely, lol. no charismatic doesn't mean a blowhard and isn't necessarily animated like I said. Some players have a mystique about them that breeds confidence. I found Brian Sipe amazing and the testimony of the Kardiac Kids saying that they just knew Sipe would pull the game out was very interesting. I think Baz was a lot like that and the players knew when he got into the huddle that nothing was impossible. Hell, I even sat in my seats until the last play even when we were down by 20 when most peeps left. Not sure if they keep records, but I believe 100% that the Bazmanien Devil won more games than any other QB in the history of college football with 4th quarter and overtime combacks. I used to know the number but I think it was 17 comebacks when tied going into the 4th quarter. Not saying that I expect the same sorta belief in CT but I'm thinking that his season last year and him having another notch under his belt is a good indication that he may be a big image for the other players to look to and believe in when the game is on the line. And I think the belief of the fans follows the same path. I'm not sure CT had the experience and production to command that until maybe the Pit game.
Oh I don't believe that at all. I'm not referring to some flimsy blind belief as they believed in him as the starting QB, much like they believed in Oliver. The belief i'm talking about is a belief which comes with evidence. What I saw when CT was a freshman was a very very unsure kid who lacked the confidence to do much of anything. He had no belief in the pocket, OL, or much less anything. Fitz and McCall never put the game on the line with him and limited the playbook to a handful of plays. Nah, no belief from players or fans or coaches is what I saw.
And that is normal. I wouldn't expect CT to have the confidence as a freshman. I wouldn't expect our offense to truly believe he would lead them to victory with a comeback TD. And Fitz and McCall were wise to have more belief in JJTBC and letting JJ touch the ball close to 400 times by virtue of shutting down the passing game. No way no how did anyone believe anything other than CT was talented and would be the QB and had boatloads to learn.
That has all changed now. I think CT confidence level has skyrocketed. McCall grooming has been impressive with QB development. My gripe on McCall is that he almost shelters a new young QB a lot more than he should imo. The result are some really brutal cruddy seasons.
I can say that PPD is correct on this. There were plenty of people in the program who thought it might be worthwhile to burn Thorson's shirt after Siemian went down based on his practice performance during his redshirt year. Ultimately the decision was made to keep the redshirt on because a fifth year would be more valuable than a couple of games as a true freshman.
Here's to hoping he's around for that fifth year.
nah, I don't believe that. All talk. Even when he was a starter, he had zero confidence, had no idea what to do in the pocket. His OL didn't know where he was and had no confidence in their blocks. And 100% Fitz and McCall didn't trust him. Go back and look at the box score, nobody had any confidence in him much less believe he could lead them with a comeback victory. Only in the movies GCG. Say hello to the Easter Bunny for me!
I saw. I know. All of the Fitz "We believe in him" during his freshman year wasn't backed up with anything other than JJTBC. Sure, people said "We believe in CT" but in reality all fake news back then and the kid was barely given any chance to pass at all.
Sorry
Turk and Fitz and McCall +1
GCG -1
You don't have to believe it. It's the truth.
EDIT: Keep in mind that the decision was limited exclusively to the Illinois game and the possible bowl game. It's not like he was being handed the offense for an entire season, only had to be better than Oliver in one game. How'd that turn out for us against the Illini?
His redshirt freshman starting season? He was our best QB and I think he started every game except a couple. Nobody trusted or believed in him enough to give him much responsibility other than to simply hand off JJTBC. show me consistent proof of any belief in him, other than being our best QB available, during his first year.
No, during his redshirt year. There was real debate within the program about taking off his redshirt for the Illinois game to play as a true freshman after Trevor got hurt against Purdue because Thorson was showing a lot of promise in practice. The question was whether getting one game (potentially two as a W against Illinois could/would have earned a bowl game) as a true freshman was worth losing a full season from a presumed multi-year starter as a fifth-year senior. The decision was ultimately made that the benefits didn't outweigh the costs, which resulted in Oliver starting against Illinois in what turned out to be a debacle.
And, again, I don't have to show you proof because I know for a fact that this was a real discussion/decision that took place within the program.
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