This might violate a board rule

[phatcat]

If so, apologies in advance to Lou and FA. I've been beating the Ryan Day drum. His DC cost him one game and got demoted. Day put a 35 year old DB coach with little experience in charge. One game. One loss against a top team. Demoted because it was clear that the defense needed a new direction. No excuses.

Guess what? The defense is playing great. Funny how that happened.

 

[zeek55]

Everyone should be beating this drum.

I would expect immediate improvement if McGarigle or MacPherson was promoted to DC. Impossible to tell how capable either of them is... but our defense literally cannot get worse than what we just saw against Nebraska.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

If so, apologies in advance to Lou and FA. I've been beating the Ryan Day drum. His DC cost him one game and got demoted. Day put a 35 year old DB coach with little experience in charge. One game. One loss against a top team. Demoted because it was clear that the defense needed a new direction. No excuses.

Guess what? The defense is playing great. Funny how that happened.

Frankly I’m hoping that Fitz is doing a lot of soul searching on this off day, deciding whether he has the constitution to pull the plug on ONeil. Probably wouldn’t do it, but hope he’s at least considered the possibility.

 

[stpaulcat]

Everyone should be beating this drum.

I would expect immediate improvement if McGarigle or MacPherson was promoted to DC. Impossible to tell how capable either of them is... but our defense literally cannot get worse than what we just saw against Nebraska.

Wanna bet? Wait 'til we play Rutgers, then Michigan.

 

[CatManTrue]

Speaking of board rules, are OT posts no longer allowed?

Not feeling like renewing my subscription in 2022 as it is. But allowing no OT content pretty much clinches it for me. This program sucks right now and we could use distractions.

 

[stpaulcat]

Speaking of board rules, are OT posts no longer allowed?

Not feeling like renewing my subscription in 2022 as it is. But allowing no OT content pretty much clinches it for me. This program sucks right now and we could use distractions.

Like a rant board?

 

[zeek55]

Wanna bet? Wait 'til we play Rutgers, then Michigan.

Could see more games as bad as Nebraska, but we pretty much gave up a TD on 7 of 8 drives where they were trying; and gave up the most yardage we've given up in 15 years.

Most teams will call off the dogs at that point. Maybe not Harbaugh though so you could be right.

This is pretty much rock bottom for a defense; hard to get worse.

 

[phatcat]

Frankly I’m hoping that Fitz is doing a lot of soul searching on this off day, deciding whether he has the constitution to pull the plug on ONeil. Probably wouldn’t do it, but hope he’s at least considered the possibility.

Did you watch his joke of a press conference? He got the gentlest questions about the D and his answer was (two times) something like 'we just had 6 shutout quarters..right? RIGHT?' Totally belittled the poor kid that has to cover this moribund team.

No way he's soul searching. 'We just have to execute ' 'that's on us, as coaches'.

And so on.

Join the MAC if you want to brag about your (not actual) shutout of a MAC team

 

[Nihilist Rodgers]

If so, apologies in advance to Lou and FA. I've been beating the Ryan Day drum. His DC cost him one game and got demoted. Day put a 35 year old DB coach with little experience in charge. One game. One loss against a top team. Demoted because it was clear that the defense needed a new direction. No excuses.

Guess what? The defense is playing great. Funny how that happened.

that dude is playing with Ferraris though..

 

[Zootcat]

If so, apologies in advance to Lou and FA. I've been beating the Ryan Day drum. His DC cost him one game and got demoted. Day put a 35 year old DB coach with little experience in charge. One game. One loss against a top team. Demoted because it was clear that the defense needed a new direction. No excuses.

Guess what? The defense is playing great. Funny how that happened.

Yeah, agree with this. Although we don’t have OSU’s talent, I think everyone here agrees that, with the talent we have, we should be better than we’ve been.

 

[cattul]

Did you watch his joke of a press conference? He got the gentlest questions about the D and his answer was (two times) something like 'we just had 6 shutout quarters..right? RIGHT?' Totally belittled the poor kid that has to cover this moribund team.

No way he's soul searching. 'We just have to execute ' 'that's on us, as coaches'.

And so on.

Join the MAC if you want to brag about your (not actual) shutout of a MAC team

Agreed.

Fitz signaled that he is instinctively going ‘Testudo.‘ Us against the world. Shut out the distractions. Standard coach stuff.

I hope he understands that this situation is well beyond standard. This is not a single game problem.

(Hint: when you march around like that, it is not a sign that things are going well.)

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Did you watch his joke of a press conference? He got the gentlest questions about the D and his answer was (two times) something like 'we just had 6 shutout quarters..right? RIGHT?' Totally belittled the poor kid that has to cover this moribund team.

No way he's soul searching. 'We just have to execute ' 'that's on us, as coaches'.

And so on.

Join the MAC if you want to brag about your (not actual) shutout of a MAC team

I’m not disagreeing with you.

 

[corbi296]

Did you watch his joke of a press conference? He got the gentlest questions about the D and his answer was (two times) something like 'we just had 6 shutout quarters..right? RIGHT?' Totally belittled the poor kid that has to cover this moribund team.

No way he's soul searching. 'We just have to execute ' 'that's on us, as coaches'.

And so on.

Join the MAC if you want to brag about your (not actual) shutout of a MAC team

you are delusional if you really believe that. What he says and shows in front of the press and what goes on behind closed doors are two dramatically different things. Nobody is more pissed off about this than FItz. I doubt he did much sleeping last night and I am sure all he did today was watch tape and reflect on what needs to be done. FItz hates losing more than anything.

 

[Sheffielder]

Ryan Day's approach is probably a bit too extreme for NU culture. And honestly...Fitz's is probably too far in the other direction.

What are we at...four games into the season (I really don't remember although I realize it feels like 50)? I won't bash Fitz for not wanting to flush his new DC after four games...even after last night's game. It is entirely possible, if not "likely" that JON is not a good fit here, but yes, I still think it is too soon to tell. Hank casts a big shadow. Let's at least see what the reason of the season holds. I'd rather not endure a pair of 3-9s before having another hot streak, but I'm also not getting out my pitchfork like they are at Clemson and other places that think you fire someone after a few bad games.

 

[FanatiCat]

Well, just 2 years ago Fitz said the 3-9 (1-8) would never happen again. That was mainly because of poor offense. It is going to happen again. This time because of defense. Mid season changes are the only way I see avoiding this.

 

[corbi296]

Well, just 2 years ago Fitz said the 3-9 (1-8) would never happen again. That was mainly because of poor offense. It is going to happen again. This time because of defense. Mid season changes are the only way I see avoiding this.

you act as if he is doing this intentionally. He certainly did not want it to happen again but it sure looks like it will.

 

[freewillie07]

you act as if he is doing this intentionally. He certainly did not want it to happen again but it sure looks like it will.

No, I think everyone just wants to make clear that they remember that 3-9 was Fitz's line in the sand for what is unacceptable for this program. And that if we reach that point again this year, he had better take the same decisive action he did after 2019.

 

[phatcat]

you are delusional if you really believe that. What he says and shows in front of the press and what goes on behind closed doors are two dramatically different things. Nobody is more pissed off about this than FItz. I doubt he did much sleeping last night and I am sure all he did today was watch tape and reflect on what needs to be done. FItz hates losing more than anything.

I hope you are right, but as much as he hates losing, also on his list of hates is being proven wrong or bowing to pressure.

 

[zeek55]

I hope you are right, but as much as he hates losing, also on his list of hates is being proven wrong or bowing to pressure.

Wins and losses are by far the most important thing.

The whole McCall episode showed that. As long as we were getting enough good recruits on offense and winning games, Fitz turned a deaf ear to the criticism of the offense.

There's no way to positively spin the results of this defense if we keep seeing lopsided losses like this.

That Nebraska loss was the worst defensive performance we've had under Fitz. He knows that.

 

[corbi296]

I hope you are right, but as much as he hates losing, also on his list of hates is being proven wrong or bowing to pressure.

you call not listening to meathead fans Not bowing to pressure? I call it being smart. The one thing I can assure you FItz agrees with is that losing and especially losing like we did on Saturday is unacceptable. FItz is ultra competitive. There is nothing he hates more than losing. He will not tolerate this.

 

[jne381]

I don’t think Fitz will make a move in the middle of the season. If he is going to make a move, which I assume he will do based on these performances, he will make the move after the season is over.

 

[Bwm57]

you call not listening to meathead fans Not bowing to pressure? I call it being smart. The one thing I can assure you FItz agrees with is that losing and especially losing like we did on Saturday is unacceptable. FItz is ultra competitive. There is nothing he hates more than losing. He will not tolerate this.

I hope you’re right!

 

[Bwm57]

I don’t think Fitz will make a move in the middle of the season. If he is going to make a move, which I assume he will do based on these performances, he will make the move after the season is over.

I hope you’re wrong!!

 

[jensberg]

you are delusional if you really believe that. What he says and shows in front of the press and what goes on behind closed doors are two dramatically different things. Nobody is more pissed off about this than FItz. I doubt he did much sleeping last night and I am sure all he did today was watch tape and reflect on what needs to be done. FItz hates losing more than anything.

I agree he is frustrated and very upset. However, do you really think he'll make any coaching changes? Do you really think we will see anyone different at linebacker in two weeks than we've seen so far? The redshirt freshman or true freshman four star recruits we have? Could they really be that much worse?

 

[stpaulcat]

you are delusional if you really believe that. What he says and shows in front of the press and what goes on behind closed doors are two dramatically different things. Nobody is more pissed off about this than FItz. I doubt he did much sleeping last night and I am sure all he did today was watch tape and reflect on what needs to be done. FItz hates losing more than anything.

This may be what saves this situation. He was okay if we won by 1 point with a crappy offense and great defense, but losing by 49 with a comatose defense and mediocre offense? He's gonna lose a lot of sleep before this is over.

 

[corbi296]

I agree he is frustrated and very upset. However, do you really think he'll make any coaching changes? Do you really think we will see anyone different at linebacker in two weeks than we've seen so far? The redshirt freshman or true freshman four star recruits we have? Could they really be that much worse?

if things don’t change I am sure he’ll make a coaching change no later than this offseason. As far as players are concerned, I don’t know who else you want him to play? The best healthy players are playing. The players are not the problem.

 

[NUCat320]

I hope you are right, but as much as he hates losing, also on his list of hates is being proven wrong or bowing to pressure.

We should start a campaign to save JON’s job! “He’s paid his dues! Be a good pal!”

 

[Arlcatsfan]

Fitz is the face of NU football.The legacy he has built ever since he set foot on campus as a recruit for Barnett almost 30 years ago to a program that had been horrible seemingly forever,and saw that program built from a laughingstock to the Rose Bowl in 3 years was a turnaround for the ages.Then becoming head coach under horrible circumstances and leading NU to 2 division championships and 6 bowl wins in a row with the most stringent academic restrictions in all of college football has been most impressive.Fitz knows better than anyone on this board

 

[Alvious]

Frankly I’m hoping that Fitz is doing a lot of soul searching on this off day, deciding whether he has the constitution to pull the plug on ONeil. Probably wouldn’t do it, but hope he’s at least considered the possibility.

Knowing Fitz he'd probably double down and give O'Neil a lifetime contract.

 

[stpaulcat]

Fitz is the face of NU football.The legacy he has built ever since he set foot on campus as a recruit for Barnett almost 30 years ago to a program that had been horrible seemingly forever,and saw that program built from a laughingstock to the Rose Bowl in 3 years was a turnaround for the ages.Then becoming head coach under horrible circumstances and leading NU to 2 division championships and 6 bowl wins in a row with the most stringent academic restrictions in all of college football has been most impressive.Fitz knows better than anyone on this board

No question. Being tenacious and highly competitive does not necessarily equate with being an impartial judge of coaching ability, however.

 

[stpaulcat]

Knowing Fitz he'd probably double down and give O'Neil a lifetime contract.

You do not know Fitz. I met his dad one day in the west Lot, and within 30 seconds I felt as though I knew Fitz. I don't either, but I believe you are correct.

 

[zeek55]

Fitz is the face of NU football.The legacy he has built ever since he set foot on campus as a recruit for Barnett almost 30 years ago to a program that had been horrible seemingly forever,and saw that program built from a laughingstock to the Rose Bowl in 3 years was a turnaround for the ages.Then becoming head coach under horrible circumstances and leading NU to 2 division championships and 6 bowl wins in a row with the most stringent academic restrictions in all of college football has been most impressive.Fitz knows better than anyone on this board

Fitz is stubborn at times, but he wants to win. I don't think that's in question.

Perhaps he believes JON deserves more attempts at this, but if we keep seeing these results, JON will get demoted/fired pretty soon.

 

[Arlcatsfan]

Fitz is the face of NU football.The legacy he has built ever since he set foot on campus as a recruit for Barnett almost 30 years ago to a program that had been horrible seemingly forever and saw that program built from a laughingstock to the Rose Bowl in 3 years was a turnaround for the ages.Then becoming head coach under the horrible circumstances and leading NU to 2 division championships and 6 bowl wins in a row with the most stringent academic restrictions in all of college football has been most impressive.Fitz knows better then anyone on this board on how to get this team back on track.He feels worse than anyone on this board.I believe he will do what is necessary to right this ship.To say some of the things that have been said about him makes it sound like he is a toddler in pre-school.He is not perfect and the way he responds to reporters questions has a lot to be desired.But he is one tough cookie and will make whatever changes that have to be made.That is what I believe.

 

[scru]

Ryan Day's approach is probably a bit too extreme for NU culture. And honestly...Fitz's is probably too far in the other direction.

What are we at...four games into the season (I really don't remember although I realize it feels like 50)? I won't bash Fitz for not wanting to flush his new DC after four games...even after last night's game. It is entirely possible, if not "likely" that JON is not a good fit here, but yes, I still think it is too soon to tell. Hank casts a big shadow. Let's at least see what the reason of the season holds. I'd rather not endure a pair of 3-9s before having another hot streak, but I'm also not getting out my pitchfork like they are at Clemson and other places that think you fire someone after a few bad games.

In my day to day world we would consider what has happened so far this year an actual success. In any experiment, a fast fail is always preferred to needing far more time and evidence to reach a conclusion. It is also a cornerstone principal of the Lean Startup Model.

Fast Fail

In a well designed organization, there is no shame in failing fast. You learn, pivot, and keep experimenting. One key to success is to avoid becoming emotionally tied to a predetermined preferred outcome.

 

[Katatonic]

you call not listening to meathead fans Not bowing to pressure? I call it being smart. The one thing I can assure you FItz agrees with is that losing and especially losing like we did on Saturday is unacceptable. FItz is ultra competitive. There is nothing he hates more than losing. He will not tolerate this.

Not sure if I qualify as a meathead (tho I knew a # of them back in the day), but didn't Fitz eventually get rid of Colby and McCall?

Granted, a bit later than what we meatheads had been calling for, so how exactly is that smart when you end up doing exactly what had been called for, but delayed?

Speaking of delay, that's been another tell-tale sign of Fitz's tenure - being agonizingly slow when it comes to coaching changes, in-game player changes and playcalling.

McCall got most of the blame for the latter 2 from me, but ultimately, it's Fitz's decision.

you act as if he is doing this intentionally. He certainly did not want it to happen again but it sure looks like it will.

A good # of us saw something like this a possibility (ok, maybe not quite to this extreme).

What does it say about Fitz if he didnt?

 

[Katatonic]

Ryan Day's approach is probably a bit too extreme for NU culture. And honestly...Fitz's is probably too far in the other direction.

Agree that Fitz won't be as quick as Day (after all, dOSU still has a chance to make it to the playoff), and that likely, won't mull making a real change until after the season (or 2) is over.

But it's canny how things have been for both D's early on in the season.

Defenders being out of position, seemingly confused, playing on their heels instead of attacking and questionable substitutions (or lack thereof).

dOSU's DC in name-only was over his head in trying to be a DC, and being a DB coach, tried to get the front 7 playing more like how the secondary plays (reacting instead of attacking).

He was brought back and promoted bc he is one helluva recruiter, which is what they were missing on the defensive side (Day's stature as an O genius is what's been drawing the top flight passing QBs and WRs to Columbus).

Someone a while ago compared a Fitz to Day which isn't a good comparison.

Wherever Day is, that program will have a good O most years.

Fitz is the CEO/face of the program type of HC who needs to hire both a good OC and DC.

He's actually a lot more like Franklin, who also hired a buddy as a co-ordinator which didn't end up well.

 

[CatManTrue]

Not sure if I qualify as a meathead (tho I knew a # of them back in the day), but didn't Fitz eventually get rid of Colby and McCall?

Granted, a bit later than what we meatheads had been calling for, so how exactly is that smart when you end up doing exactly what had been called for, but delayed?

Speaking of delay, that's been another tell-tale sign of Fitz's tenure - being agonizingly slow when it comes to coaching changes, in-game player changes and playcalling.

McCall got most of the blame for the latter 2 from me, but ultimately, it's Fitz's decision.





A good # of us saw something like this a possibility (ok, maybe not quite to this extreme).

What does it say about Fitz if he didnt?

In Fitz’s defense, he let Colby go at the right time - and after a bowl eligible 6-6 season.

He was at least four seasons late on McCall… but the issues were masked by JJTBC, Thorson, and even Carr (for a year).

We’ll see how long it takes him to make the right call this year.

 

[stpaulcat]

In my day to day world we would consider what has happened so far this year an actual success. In any experiment, a fast fail is always preferred to needing far more time and evidence to reach a conclusion. It is also a cornerstone principal of the Lean Startup Model.

Fast Fail

In a well designed organization, there is no shame in failing fast. You learn, pivot, and keep experimenting. One key to success is to avoid becoming emotionally tied to a predetermined preferred outcome.

If it ain't broken, don't fix it. This is no startup, There was no need for an experiment in this case, and so what has happened already is an actual failure.

 

[Katatonic]

In Fitz’s defense, he let Colby go at the right time - and after a bowl eligible 6-6 season.

Well, can't argue with the timing as Hank basically fell into Fitz's lap.