He is the first coach in 80 yrs to get to a tourney, we do have the second highest rated (NET/Kenpom) team in recent history, we are landing better recruits than ever, he did help convince NU and donors to get big ten caliber facilities and home arena. And he does seem to genuinely care about his players (see Falzon). But that was a year or two ago, or at least a few months ago--well I guess he still cares about players, but that has nothing to do with us fans. What did he do since last week? Lose 2 games. How long should fans have to deal with this nonsense--4 games, 5? Why don't we have depth at every position, waiting in the wings for graduations, injuries so they can step in without losing a beat like Bama does in football. So what if our recruiting pool is only a few dozen kids in the country and the elite players are being offered god-knows-what. So what if Stanford, a peer school with a million advantages and incredible athletic success across the board has only been to 1 tournament in the last decade? We demand that our next coach is the off-spring of Tom Izzo and Tony Bennett and that we turn off student meal cards if they don't attend games or we might as well leave the big ten and let the nerds who pay $60K/yr to attend run the show.
Time for Collins to go
- Thread starter torque-cat
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So relative to the questions of whether his approach, strategy, recruiting focus, and game coaching can produce consistent winners, and whether his player management style can avoid black eyes on the university ala Vasser and Lathon, I will put you down as a solid yes?
Did I miss something? How did Collins manage Lathon poorly?
He recruited a key player who disqualified his myself before matriculation, hurting the team. Maybe that isn’t Collins’ fault, but maybe it reflects on his judgement. Torque-Cat and you clearly think not. If I recruited someone to work for my organization and they washed out in screening by HR, I would take responsibility, but that is just me.
HR (ie NU admissions) okay'd Lathon. He subsequently did something to have them rescind. So NU admissions, whose job it is to review hundreds of athletes every year apparently also misjudged. Has a young person ever done something that surprised and disappointed you?
So who did not allow him to matriculate? Anyway, I always took responsibility for those I extended offers to, particularly if they were a recruit for a critical position. I guess you don’t think that applies here, as you have made clear.
Great, we’re arguing about stupid ****ing Lathon again.
And torque, while I have tended to lean the other way as far as your optimism, your depiction of the couple-of-people-on-a-website-masquerading-as-a-mob here is quite accurate.
And torque, while I have tended to lean the other way as far as your optimism, your depiction of the couple-of-people-on-a-website-masquerading-as-a-mob here is quite accurate.
Your question, “How did Collins Manage Lathon badly?” Collins extended him an offer, and Lathon’s behavior prevented him from coming to school. I think Collins banking on a player who let him down reflects on Collins. If you don’t, that is fine, but clearly the Cats have been short a point guard this year.
I think it was a mistake that any of us could have made. If it becomes a pattern that’s a different issue. Have you ever made a mistake in judgment? Also do you hire high school seniors?
Yes, I have made mistakes and yes I accepted the consequences. And you have made clear your views. Assuming Collins is still on board in 3 years or so, I will check back with you. I really hope I am wrong, that the Cats show improvement this year and next, and things go up from there. As I have said multiple times, I think Collins was the best replacement for Carmody at the time he was hired, and I hope he is successful either in Evanston or wherever else his career takes him.
No ... I was wondering if you knew some details about how all this was handled.
Let me offer a little advice.
When you're speechifyin' about strong ethical representation based on a lot of "maybes" and propping yourself up as an example of how to act, maybe it's not the greatest tactic to totally misrepresent someone's opinion to score some points.
But I see where this is going now. Thanks for the insight.
Sorry, I did not mean to misrepresent. As I said, I hope for the Cats to improve and Collins to be successful.
C’mon, this is exceeding harsh. CCC does a background/character evaluation on every player he recruits. Lathon passed. He also passed at multiple other major universities. There is no possible way CCC or any other coach could have seen this coming. If you have evidence of legal or character issues on Lathon before the incident that CCC should have known about then I will shut my mouth. Saying it is his judgement without knowing the facts is irresponsible.
If you want to criticize CCC for not having a back up plan at PG, have at it. You clearly have concerns with CCC and I can’t wait for next year when the lynch mob starts calling for blood as we hunt for a young Dick Bennett from the American Atlantic, Horizon, Big South, SWC, Patriot league, MEAC or wherever that basketball savant is hiding.
You hope Collins is succcesful? He's the first coach ever to take us to the Dance, and is already has the third most wins of any coach in the ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE PROGRAM! All in less than six years...
Yeah, I hope Collins will be successful someday....
lathon passed on ALL ASPECTS of entry into NU - until he didn't
Yes, he was successful for a year. He was not last year, and so far not this year. I hope that changes starting the next game. If this year plays out, he will have had one good year in six with the prospect of next year being a rebuilding year. I still think it is fair to ask if that defines success overall. maybe it does.
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He is the fastest coach to 100 wins in our entire program, history. by far, and is one of only three coaches to have 100 wins, period. He's the only coach to have at least 14 wins in every season he has coached for us. Tell me how he was successful for a year again? You want Carmody back?
Once Jordan Ash went down with an injury, this team, and their identity went into the tank. Ash was easily our best defensive player. I hope he comes back for a fifth year and leads this team to the sweet sixteen. We have collapsed without him.
He has had one year above 9th in conference. I think it is fair to ask. And no, Carmody would not be a good choice at this point.
Yeah, and that one year we made the second round of the NCAAs, and nearly the Sweet Sixteen something I was not certain would happen in my lifetime. We also finished with the first winning BIG record since before I was born (I'm 50).Collins is also the first coach with a winning record we have had since Arthur Lonborg. I could literally throw a 100 other success statistics about Collins at you, but you'll remain convinced he is not a successful coach, so I am not going to waste any more of my time. Carry on with your "I wish we had hired Greg Gard" posts...
That's not a great way to gauge success because it's too based in hindsight and looking at each year as a distinct item.
Success at this level is whether CCC can build a program that can sustainably compete for NCAA bids regularly (most years in a decade).
We already know this year and next will be lean. 2021 and beyond is really where we'll see the true measure of CCC's program.
By 2021, we should be seeing real progress towards the goal of becoming a regular NCAA tournament team.
If CCC has us in 3 more NCAA Tournament's by 2026, I'd consider that a success. But it might include us missing tournaments for the next 2 years and then making it once, then missing it again, then making it 2 more times in a row. At that point we should have the look of a regular contender.
I don't ever judge a coach on a single year or two or even three. Look at the program CCC is building.
If we're at 2023 and CCC has no NCAA tournament bids between now and then, that's when we have a problem. I don't see why we're rushing to judgment though when we have no idea what will happen over the medium or longer-term.
This whole thread is
I'm not sure what happened to these boards in the four or so years since I stopped posting regularly, but man have things gotten weird...
I'm not sure what happened to these boards in the four or so years since I stopped posting regularly, but man have things gotten weird...
Obviously, Collins is just showing us that he is no different from BC. I remember all of the BC haters. BC did a reasonable job in a program that is strapped a lot worse than NU football due to the higher risk of making a recruiting miste with so few scholarships. While this program has been a strange and terrible thing, both BC and CC have given us some exceptions. While there is no evidence that we can expect a NIT/NCAA invitation other than maybe a stroke of luck every 10 years, they have upgraded the entertainment value for us with better food and a more enjoyable arena. I may have overspent on the hype because the lower bowl seating at the new arena is just too high a price, especially when I like the upper baseline a lot. Most of us already paid the big bucks for next year but many of us will be scaling back. Uncle Donnie stripped us of our tax deductions, and the price of about $1,500 a seat is more than I'll consider next time. I'll actually upgrade next year to the upper bowl which has reasonably priced seats for the venue. Don't get me wrong, if we were competitive, then it would be more exciting but paying $1,500 a seat to watch us get clobbered isn't worth it.
All that said, Chris Collins is definitely the right guy for the job and he has been successful with the keys of a clunker. It's never going to be a new car.
I guess the big question is whether Collins has hit a speed bump on the way to building a great program, or was the 2016-7 season a mirage? It takes time, and I think he showed that he could get it done. I personally think we have hit a speed bump. He recruits at a high level, and will continue to do so, but clearly it has been hit or miss thus far. His point guard recruiting has been terrible, aside from B-Mac. Vasser, Ash, Brown, Lathon have not panned out, and he was runnerup for others like Davison and Cormac Ryan. He scored big with Nance, Kopp, and hopefully Beran. The jury is still out but the upside is huge. But yes, I agree that 2021 seems to be the year when we find out if Collins can take us back to the heights of the 2016-7 season.
Sorry but this is after HR (admissions) had already cleared him. He had passed all due diligence. He did something after that (that the vast majority on this board have no idea what he did) but before he was actually part of the program. Blaming that on CCC is ridiculous.
Yeah I agree with your take and think it's fair to question whether we are at a plateau or a pit stop in a rebuild.
It just feels to me that we won't know until 2021-2023. That's when we'll have a better idea for whether CCC's ceiling is lower than we hope.
He had a solid background and cleared all back checks and appeared to be a solid guy in all respects or admissions would not have cleared him. If it had happened after he was enrolled and under CCC control you might have a point. Or if there were indications of such behavior prior to offer and being submitted to admissions. But it happened in an in between time when he was not under CCC supervision. Sort of like a Len Bias situation. Kid that that appeared to follow the rules and then after getting drafted does something stupid. The Lathon incident reflects on Lathon, not CCC. You want to blame CCC for the Vassar situation, OK but Lathon, no way.
And were all those older than 17 or 18? And again were you taking responsibility based on what they did in your company? Totally reasonable because they are under your supervision. But between HR clearing them and extending an offer and them starting?
Ash is not really a PG nor was Vassar or Brown and Lathon would have been the next solid PG for the program. Fact is very few programs have more than one solid PG at a time. NU is not unique. Lathon was to be that guy and his indiscretion really did a number on the program but the really bad effect should be limited one year as Greer or others will be in a position to take over next year. Throughout the BIG, most programs lead PG gets 33-35 mpg and likely the backup is not a true PG
We are adding more and more high level talent to the program . Count me as someone that thinks next year will surprise to the upside as we will have viable PG as well as Turner back for another year and plenty of talent on the wings. While I expect to miss Pardon, I think we have enough talent at other positions to be a player
While a dream to be in NCAA 6/10 times, I am not sure it is realistic yet. More like 3/10. 5/10 for postseason might be a more reasonable expectation
You guys need to lay off of Collins. Stop being dramatic. The whole damn history of this program has been one giant speed bump that we can't get over. As with everyting, there are exceptions. The last exception was the Dance. But we barely squeezed in and only after the Hail Mary pass to Pardon.
While that has been a once in a lifetime event, I'm hoping, moving forward, that we will have better chances of a "once every 20 year storm" of going to the Dance.
In the meantime, sit on your negativity because this season isn't that bad. If we get to 7 or 8 Big Ten wins we may go to the NIT. I sat through years where we thought it was pretty cool to win 6 BigTen games.
Those years were more special and less stuck up. The team would walk around the arena and high five all of us. Now, our players wouldn't think of it and they are snobby and just go in the tunnel instead of walking around the arena in class like BC used to have them do.
Snobby now, without reason.
While that has been a once in a lifetime event, I'm hoping, moving forward, that we will have better chances of a "once every 20 year storm" of going to the Dance.
In the meantime, sit on your negativity because this season isn't that bad. If we get to 7 or 8 Big Ten wins we may go to the NIT. I sat through years where we thought it was pretty cool to win 6 BigTen games.
Those years were more special and less stuck up. The team would walk around the arena and high five all of us. Now, our players wouldn't think of it and they are snobby and just go in the tunnel instead of walking around the arena in class like BC used to have them do.
Snobby now, without reason.
FB had its downtime after the glory of 95/96 (97/98/98 got pretty ugly) and 2000 BIG Championships. With the restrictions on NU it was hard to maintain at a competitive level year after year. It has taken two decades to get to the level of consistency that we see today. Why should BB be different?
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