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Time for Collins to go

Calm down. Some experts on the NCAA tourney are predicting 9-10 Big 10 teams to make the tourney. That is a record high. That proves that NU is playing one of the toughest schedules in the country and a tougher conference schedule than the former regime with 20 conference games. Also, NU made the NIT for some of the years because there was no NIT rules that made it mandatory to invite regular season conference champions of mid-major conference to be invited if they lost in their conference tourneys.

The current NU team is playing without a PG and only now are playing bench minutes for the most natural PG on the team in true freshman, Ryan Greer. They were expecting big things from Taylor and Turner, but they have only shown flashes and have flinched in clutch situations. Injuries to Falzon have really hurt the program as they were hoping for him to develop into a 15-18 ppg contributor. Are his injuries' CC's fault?

BC never made the tourney which will always put him below CC and the Big 10 was down for many of his years with IU, UM and Iowa having major issues with NCAA infractions and being down and he could only muster 7-11 conference records at best. Maryland had not joined the Big 10 for many of his years who has a top 20-40 program with the help of Under Armour money backing it.

Sure NU has had recruiting misses. Everyone does but CC is recruiting high level players and some pan out and others don't. Collins will break through with some recruits. Hopefully, he gets more players with grit and toughness like Lumpkin and Gaines and couple them with some lights out shooters and maybe we will have something. Keep the faith. The Big 10 is a test of survival and with a 8-man roster with Nance's mono, Ash's injury and Young's RS, we are definitely short-handed right now.
 
Walker Fan said:
Also, NU made the NIT for some of the years because there was no NIT rules that made it mandatory to invite regular season conference champions of mid-major conference to be invited if they lost in their conference tourneys.
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This is only true of the 1983, 1994, and 1999 NIT teams. The 2009-2012 NIT teams all made it under the current selection criteria.
 
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Turk said:
As with everyting, there are exceptions. The last exception was the Dance. But we barely squeezed in and only after the Hail Mary pass to Pardon.
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For what it's worth, this is not true. We were 32nd in the seed list - ahead of Michigan State! - and ahead of 13 other at-large bids.

Whatever flaws or virtues anyone sees with Collins' tenure, the 2016-17 squad was comfortably a Tourney team.
 
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Walker Fan said:
Calm down. Some experts on the NCAA tourney are predicting 9-10 Big 10 teams to make the tourney. That is a record high. That proves that NU is playing one of the toughest schedules in the country and a tougher conference schedule than the former regime with 20 conference games. Also, NU made the NIT for some of the years because there was no NIT rules that made it mandatory to invite regular season conference champions of mid-major conference to be invited if they lost in their conference tourneys.

The current NU team is playing without a PG and only now are playing bench minutes for the most natural PG on the team in true freshman, Ryan Greer. They were expecting big things from Taylor and Turner, but they have only shown flashes and have flinched in clutch situations. Injuries to Falzon have really hurt the program as they were hoping for him to develop into a 15-18 ppg contributor. Are his injuries' CC's fault?

BC never made the tourney which will always put him below CC and the Big 10 was down for many of his years with IU, UM and Iowa having major issues with NCAA infractions and being down and he could only muster 7-11 conference records at best. Maryland had not joined the Big 10 for many of his years who has a top 20-40 program with the help of Under Armour money backing it.

Sure NU has had recruiting misses. Everyone does but CC is recruiting high level players and some pan out and others don't. Collins will break through with some recruits. Hopefully, he gets more players with grit and toughness like Lumpkin and Gaines and couple them with some lights out shooters and maybe we will have something. Keep the faith. The Big 10 is a test of survival and with a 8-man roster with Nance's mono, Ash's injury and Young's RS, we are definitely short-handed right now.
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Don't forget, for all the adversity and injuries etc last year, we were in reasonable shape until the 7 game losing streak to end the season. Games in which BMac was a shadow of where he was before his injury. Law or BMac were missing in something like 6 or those 7 games. Had we won 3 of those games (3/7 overall or 3/6 during regular season) , we would have had 18 wins and 9 wins in the BIG (still 18 game schedule). More than any year under BC.

Likely if Lathon were here this year or Law had not had his injury we would have had at least a couple more wins this season as well. The program is in far better shape than many on this board seem to think
 
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freewillie07 said:
this board is just completely overrun by the OP. Unbearable.
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Willie your absolutely right. I say ban them from the board. They are not interested in talking basketball and only show up when the team loses to espouse there dislike of Chris Collins.
 
Jeffrey Cat said:
Willie your absolutely right. I say ban them from the board. They are not interested in talking basketball and only show up when the team loses to espouse there dislike of Chris Collins.
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I say ban anyone that proposes banishment. I assume the mods are intelligent people that don’t need self appointed, low brow board cops to tell them how to do their job. So, never mind I guess.

Hey Jessica Cat, I can be your friend. Then you and your imaginary friends can have this Board all to yourselves.
 
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IGNORE said:
I say ban anyone that proposes banishment. I assume the mods are intelligent people that don’t need self appointed, low brow board cops to tell them how to do their job. So, never mind I guess.

Hey Jessica Cat, I can be your friend. Then you and your imaginary friends can have this Board all to yourselves.
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So you're proposing banning yourself?
 
IGNORE said:
I say ban anyone that proposes banishment. I assume the mods are intelligent people that don’t need self appointed, low brow board cops to tell them how to do their job. So, never mind I guess.

Hey Jessica Cat, I can be your friend. Then you and your imaginary friends can have this Board all to yourselves.
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DaCat said:
So you're proposing banning yourself?
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Reading comprehension. Not your strong point, I get it. Go find another way to defend your new favorite PKK teammate.
 
torque-cat said:
He is the first coach in 80 yrs to get to a tourney, we do have the second highest rated (NET/Kenpom) team in recent history, we are landing better recruits than ever, he did help convince NU and donors to get big ten caliber facilities and home arena. And he does seem to genuinely care about his players (see Falzon). But that was a year or two ago, or at least a few months ago--well I guess he still cares about players, but that has nothing to do with us fans. What did he do since last week? Lose 2 games. How long should fans have to deal with this nonsense--4 games, 5? Why don't we have depth at every position, waiting in the wings for graduations, injuries so they can step in without losing a beat like Bama does in football. So what if our recruiting pool is only a few dozen kids in the country and the elite players are being offered god-knows-what. So what if Stanford, a peer school with a million advantages and incredible athletic success across the board has only been to 1 tournament in the last decade? We demand that our next coach is the off-spring of Tom Izzo and Tony Bennett and that we turn off student meal cards if they don't attend games or we might as well leave the big ten and let the nerds who pay $60K/yr to attend run the show.
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I don't buy it.

Duke is a peer school too. Why not use them as the benchmark? And he's supposed to know how it's done.
 
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EvanstonCat said:
Duke is a peer school too. Why not use them as the benchmark?.
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Seriously?

Duke has zero academic requirements beyond the NCAA minimum. Are you so naive as to believe that the three best players in the US (who are starting for Duke) in the 2018 class all could meet academic entrance requirements at NU? Please....
 
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Turk said:
Obviously, Collins is just showing us that he is no different from BC. I remember all of the BC haters. BC did a reasonable job in a program that is strapped a lot worse than NU football due to the higher risk of making a recruiting miste with so few scholarships. While this program has been a strange and terrible thing, both BC and CC have given us some exceptions. While there is no evidence that we can expect a NIT/NCAA invitation other than maybe a stroke of luck every 10 years, they have upgraded the entertainment value for us with better food and a more enjoyable arena. I may have overspent on the hype because the lower bowl seating at the new arena is just too high a price, especially when I like the upper baseline a lot. Most of us already paid the big bucks for next year but many of us will be scaling back. Uncle Donnie stripped us of our tax deductions, and the price of about $1,500 a seat is more than I'll consider next time. I'll actually upgrade next year to the upper bowl which has reasonably priced seats for the venue. Don't get me wrong, if we were competitive, then it would be more exciting but paying $1,500 a seat to watch us get clobbered isn't worth it.

All that said, Chris Collins is definitely the right guy for the job and he has been successful with the keys of a clunker. It's never going to be a new car.
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You don't say that Collins is just like BC and then in the next breath say he is definitely the right guy for the job.

Yeah, I'm a Carmody hater. He sucked. His teams played no defense and did not know what a rebound was. You say he brought us to a certain level, and I say yeah, but then he kept us mired there for over a decade. I am glad he's gone. I do wish the best for his wife's recovery though.
 
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IGNORE said:
Reading comprehension. Not your strong point, I get it. Go find another way to defend your new favorite PKK teammate.
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You always fall back to your lazy, juvenile passive-aggressive name calling. I'm far more objective and rational than you ever will be. You'll find it hard to find anywhere where I propose banning people, yet you're obsessed with it. Quick to call people names and to bully them when they give opinions contrary to yours. And your emotional knee jerk reactions make you look like a hysterical child. That's why you lost your screen name. LOL.
 
EvanstonCat said:
You don't say that Collins is just like BC and then in the next breath say he is definitely the right guy for the job.

Yeah, I'm a Carmody hater. He sucked. His teams played no defense and did not know what a rebound was. You say he brought us to a certain level, and I say yeah, but then he kept us mired there for over a decade. I am glad he's gone. I do wish the best for his wife's recovery though.
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Why do you hate a guy who took us from dumpster fire to probably the most stable and competitive we’ve been perhaps in history and generally represented the program with class? I agree that CC was the right move but why “hate” BC when he actually did dramatically improve the program?
 
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torque-cat said:
Why do you hate a guy who took us from dumpster fire to probably the most stable and competitive we’ve been perhaps in history and generally represented the program with class? I agree that CC was the right move but why “hate” BC when he actually did dramatically improve the program?
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The way you put it here makes me seem unreasonable. Hate is a strong word perhaps. 13 years of mediocrity. I personally could have done without it. Dramatically improve is a strong statement as well, in my humble opinion.
 
EvanstonCat said:
The way you put it here makes me seem unreasonable. Hate is a strong word perhaps. 13 years of mediocrity. I personally could have done without it. Dramatically improve is a strong statement as well, in my humble opinion.
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I say the mediocrity of 4 consecutive NIT seasons, with the likes of Shurna, Cobb, Crawford, and Hearn (who actually sniffed the NBA) matches up more or less with the single unicorn season NU has had in the last 6 seasons.......neither stretch is anything to brag about.
 
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DaCat said:
You always fall back to your lazy, juvenile passive-aggressive name calling. I'm far more objective and rational than you ever will be. You'll find it hard to find anywhere where I propose banning people, yet you're obsessed with it. Quick to call people names and to bully them when they give opinions contrary to yours. And your emotional knee jerk reactions make you look like a hysterical child. That's why you lost your screen name. LOL.
Click to expand...

The irony is quite thick. You never offer anything of substance. You come here to attack and name call. You may be the poster child of objective in this particular political climate - seems like many extremists look in the mirror and see a centrist.

So yes, when I deal with your single schtick game, I use the same defense. It’s kinda perfect for you.

As for banning, reading comprehension. Your buddy was the one calling for banning. I mocked it. Btw, where is your call out of him? Oh, yeah, objective.

Have another Koolaid and remember I am your friend. Maybe your only one.
 
Fitzphile said:
I say the mediocrity of 4 consecutive NIT seasons, with the likes of Shurna, Cobb, Crawford, and Hearn (who actually sniffed the NBA) matches up more or less with the single unicorn season NU has had in the last 6 seasons.......neither stretch is anything to brag about.
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No! Not even close. NU was a national story when they went to the Dance.Nobody cared about 4 NIT appearances except maybe diehards like me. That said, without Carmody raising the bar, I'm not sure Collins comes here.
 
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EvanstonCat said:
The way you put it here makes me seem unreasonable. Hate is a strong word perhaps. 13 years of mediocrity. I personally could have done without it. Dramatically improve is a strong statement as well, in my humble opinion.
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Taking the program from arguably an all-time low (5-25/0-16/years of transfers) to an all-time high (multiple post-seasons, competitive in BT, player stability) is dramatic in my view. We can disagree on semantics, but why dislike a guy who arguably moved the program forward more than any coach in NU's history?
 
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Fitzphile said:
I say the mediocrity of 4 consecutive NIT seasons, with the likes of Shurna, Cobb, Crawford, and Hearn (who actually sniffed the NBA) matches up more or less with the single unicorn season NU has had in the last 6 seasons.......neither stretch is anything to brag about.
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Bill Carmody, final 5 seasons: 89-74 (34-56 B1G), 4 NIT
Chris Collins, first 5 seasons: 88-77 (36-54 B1G), 1 NCAA

Obviously that 1 NCAA was by far the best season out of those 10, and the best single NU season since the 1930s, but the overall needle hasn't moved much. Hopefully that will change with the new facilities and the end of the drought.
 
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Fitz51 said:
I think this thread and the themes raised for the 1,000th time show why it’s hard to get NU fans to games - why would they want to risk having to sit near any of these posters?
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Well I do think that it time, actually past the time for this thread to go, especially that title.
 
Styre said:
Bill Carmody, final 5 seasons: 89-74 (34-56 B1G), 4 NIT
Chris Collins, first 5 seasons: 88-77 (36-54 B1G), 1 NCAA

Obviously that 1 NCAA was by far the best season out of those 10, and the best single NU season since the 1930s, but the overall needle hasn't moved much. Hopefully that will change with the new facilities and the end of the drought.
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CCC had to basically rebuild the system and team here. And he has been just as subject to the injury bug. But you are talking 4/5 of BCs best seasons and ignoring the rest. CCC has not won less than 6 BIG games. With BC there were 1,2,3,3 and 4 win seasons.
 
IGNORE said:
The irony is quite thick. You never offer anything of substance. You come here to attack and name call. You may be the poster child of objective in this particular political climate - seems like many extremists look in the mirror and see a centrist.

So yes, when I deal with your single schtick game, I use the same defense. It’s kinda perfect for you.

As for banning, reading comprehension. Your buddy was the one calling for banning. I mocked it. Btw, where is your call out of him? Oh, yeah, objective.

Have another Koolaid and remember I am your friend. Maybe your only one.
Click to expand...

Sorry that your lack of emotional intelligence prevents you from discerning between banter and real discourse. Each time you use the word Koolaid, you make yourself the laughingstock of this board. Try to hold on to your screen name next time, IGNORE. :p:p:p
 
hdhntr1 said:
CCC had to basically rebuild the system and team here. And he has been just as subject to the injury bug. But you are talking 4/5 of BCs best seasons and ignoring the rest. CCC has not won less than 6 BIG games. With BC there were 1,2,3,3 and 4 win seasons.
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On the other hand CC inherited a program in far better shape than BC. I think each has had their role to play and in the correct order. Pretty amazing how similar those last 5 vs first 5 records are tho.
 
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hdhntr1 said:
Ash is not really a PG nor was Vassar or Brown and Lathon would have been the next solid PG for the program. Fact is very few programs have more than one solid PG at a time. NU is not unique. Lathon was to be that guy and his indiscretion really did a number on the program but the really bad effect should be limited one year as Greer or others will be in a position to take over next year. Throughout the BIG, most programs lead PG gets 33-35 mpg and likely the backup is not a true PG
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Yeah, that's a load of garbage. Good teams have a depth of talent that allows them to compensate for the loss of a starter or key player, including at the point guard position. This isn't just top 10 programs. This is a rationalization.

The loss of Lathon isn't Collins' fault. It is Collins' fault that the team still has a number of players who simply are not Big Ten-level players, including players in the backcourt. Certainly not players that programs from the top half of the conference were recruiting. It's year six. That should not still be happening, but for the fourth or fifth recruits in a class where you take a flyer.
 
Styre said:
Bill Carmody, final 5 seasons: 89-74 (34-56 B1G), 4 NIT
Chris Collins, first 5 seasons: 88-77 (36-54 B1G), 1 NCAA

Obviously that 1 NCAA was by far the best season out of those 10, and the best single NU season since the 1930s, but the overall needle hasn't moved much. Hopefully that will change with the new facilities and the end of the drought.
Click to expand...

Why would you compare the last five seasons of a coach to the first five seasons of another? Maybe compare the first five seasons of each?
 
cometclear said:
Yeah, that's a load of garbage. Good teams have a depth of talent that allows them to compensate for the loss of a starter or key player, including at the point guard position. This isn't just top 10 programs. This is a rationalization.

The loss of Lathon isn't Collins' fault. It is Collins' fault that the team still has a number of players who simply are not Big Ten-level players, including players in the backcourt. Certainly not players that programs from the top half of the conference were recruiting. It's year six. That should not still be happening, but for the fourth or fifth recruits in a class where you take a flyer.
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Welcome back! Carmody still sucks.
 
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