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Top ACC schools allegedly hiring lawyers to determine if ACC’s grant of rights is breakable

CatManTrue

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Oct 4, 2008
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I debate if this seven is truly magnificent.

I’d guess that Clemson and VT want to be in the SEC, whereas the rest would do anything to get in the B1G. FSU would get smashed in the SEC, but would hold a unique recruiting advantage in the B1G.

 
I debate if this seven is truly magnificent.

I’d guess that Clemson and VT want to be in the SEC, whereas the rest would do anything to get in the B1G. FSU would get smashed in the SEC, but would hold a unique recruiting advantage in the B1G.

Not going to happen. Those 7 schools could
Leave right now and start a new conference. Their media rights would stay with ACC. Nothing to see here.
 
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Not going to happen. Those 7 schools could
Leave right now and start a new conference. Their media rights would stay with ACC. Nothing to see here.
We had at least one board lawyer claiming the GoR is unenforceable. So we shall see.

The Big 12 would make sense for all of the ACC and PAC schools who don’t land with the B1G or SEC.
 
We had at least one board lawyer claiming the GoR is unenforceable. So we shall see.

The Big 12 would make sense for all of the ACC and PAC schools who don’t land with the B1G or SEC.
Not a lawyer but listened to several podcasts about this topic that included lawyers. This is not happening.
 
Not a lawyer but listened to several podcasts about this topic that included lawyers. This is not happening.
Which were the best podcasts about it? I listen to them when I walk my hyperactive dog and would appreciate the recommendations.
 
One Caveat. There is one entity that can make
This happen. If ESPN decides to
Which were the best podcasts about it? I listen to them when I walk my hyperactive dog and would appreciate the recommendations.
Andy Staples was the best one. He got a copy of the BIG 12 GOR and sent it to a lawyer.
 
Not a lawyer but listened to several podcasts about this topic that included lawyers. This is not happening.
10 years ago I was told by politically well connected and very bright lawyers in California that ANY Legislative effort by the national sports leagues that would help the owners at the expense of the players would be DOA in Sacramento. Too many unions with a mafia style grip on the Legislature for that to happen. The opinion was unanimous. I was told not to waste my clients' time and resources.

We went to Sacramento anyway. The stakes justified the effort.

And we won.

GOUNUII
 
What is super interesting about this development is that if a majority of the schools vote to dissolve the conference, then the GOR essentially becomes irrelevant.
 
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What is super interesting about this development is that if a majority of the schools vote to dissolve the conference, then the GOR essentially becomes irrelevant.
It’s a lot harder to dissolve a conference than you think or they would have tried it already. This is all just public lamentations because they can’t get out of the crappy deal they agreed to (without paying a ton of money).

The wild card in all this is ESPN. They could broker some kind of deal to try and make the bigger brands in the ACC more money. I wouldn’t bet on it.
 
10 years ago I was told by politically well connected and very bright lawyers in California that ANY Legislative effort by the national sports leagues that would help the owners at the expense of the players would be DOA in Sacramento. Too many unions with a mafia style grip on the Legislature for that to happen. The opinion was unanimous. I was told not to waste my clients' time and resources.

We went to Sacramento anyway. The stakes justified the effort.

And we won.

GOUNUII
Complete non sequitor but congrats on the union busting!
 
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Concur with the article that the next wave of realignment is coming, but will be relatively smaller moves, with the B1G and SEC sitting on the sidelines for now.

Once we get closer to the expiration of the ACC's GoR, that's when the seismic moves will happen.

Think the ACC schools well know that ESPN (which is bleeding $$) has little interest in upping their payout, and while the B1G broadcast partners seemingly weren't interested in ponying up additional funds (enough to not lower the per school payout) to add any additional schools, things may be different down the road in being able to broadcast games for what would be the closest thing to a "national" conference.

Also, by taking the most desirable schools in the ACC and the PAC, that means no need to pay any serious $$ for the rights to those conferences, which leaves more $$ for the B1G and SEC.
 
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The seven with the wandering eye: Clemson, Florida State, Miami, North Carolina, NC State, Virginia and Virginia Tech. The seven on the other side: Boston College, Duke, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse and Wake Forest.


Don't understand those (not just here) who keep bringing up Pitt, BC and GT as expansion candidates.

Those schools well know that they have it good in the ACC and that they aren't on the expansion list for either the B1G or the SEC (the B12 otoh...).

Even Dook has to be nervous as their only hope is if UNC insists, and don't think UNC will do that as it makes them a less appealing candidate.
 


The seven with the wandering eye: Clemson, Florida State, Miami, North Carolina, NC State, Virginia and Virginia Tech. The seven on the other side: Boston College, Duke, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse and Wake Forest.


Don't understand those (not just here) who keep bringing up Pitt, BC and GT as expansion candidates.

Those schools well know that they have it good in the ACC and that they aren't on the expansion list for either the B1G or the SEC (the B12 otoh...).

Even Dook has to be nervous as their only hope is if UNC insists, and don't think UNC will do that as it makes them a less appealing candidate.
BC or GT could make sense in the B1G if the Rutgers/Maryland logic applies: that they would help increase TV revenue by adding the Boston or Atlanta markets.

BC seems like they have a bigger following than GT. They’re also an old rival of Notre Dame.
 
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BC or GT could make sense in the B1G if the Rutgers/Maryland logic applies: that they would help increase TV revenue by adding the Boston or Atlanta markets.

BC seems like they have a bigger following than GT. They’re also an old rival of Notre Dame.
Don’t see it with BC. Both MD and Rutgers are state flagship universities and also members of AAU. BC is a small private Catholic school that has limited research and doesn’t even bring that many eyeballs in Boston. Will never happen.

Georgia Tech is also a stretch as I don’t see the BIG ever taking the non flagship public university in a state.
 
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BC or GT could make sense in the B1G if the Rutgers/Maryland logic applies: that they would help increase TV revenue by adding the Boston or Atlanta markets.

BC seems like they have a bigger following than GT. They’re also an old rival of Notre Dame.

Both schools are a drag on the per school payout for the ACC, what makes you think they wouldn't be the same (even more so) in the B1G?

Both UDub and Oregon are flagship state schools with strong FB programs and local fan bases (unlike BC and GT) and they (on their own) still wouldn't bring in enough revenue w/o having to reduce each slice of the revenue pie.

Only schools that make the cut in terms of adding enough revenue on their own are the Domers, UNC and FSU.

Schools like UDub and Oregon probably will eventually get an invite b/c USC and UCLA don't want to always be playing the Sat late nite game, and with added WC schools, the B1G can add a revenue stream with a Fri late nite game.
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GT may be in the discussion if the B1G ever expands to 24 schools.

Think the preference is to only take 1 Bay area school. so that leaves 2 slots.

UVA probably will get one since it's the flagship school for VA, would secure both the state and put a stranglehold on the DC metro area (w/ UMD), as well as keep a geographic continuity down to NC.

So that would leave the last slot to Miami, GT and maybe the other Bay area school and even Dook.

Can't see the conference leaving FSU on an island, so GT would likely get consideration along with Miami.


[cough] USC [cough] And, two centuries ago, Northwestern, Chicago, and Purdue . . . just sayin'

It was a different time/environment and most of those schools are private.

FSU, however, is a real possibility (despite UF being the state flagship school) as it is a name brand program when it comes to CFB (FSU and UF are pretty much tied in that regard), and the delta btwn the 2 schools regarding academics is smaller than that btwn MSU and UM.
 
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Concur with the article that the next wave of realignment is coming, but will be relatively smaller moves, with the B1G and SEC sitting on the sidelines for now.

Once we get closer to the expiration of the ACC's GoR, that's when the seismic moves will happen.

Think the ACC schools well know that ESPN (which is bleeding $$) has little interest in upping their payout, and while the B1G broadcast partners seemingly weren't interested in ponying up additional funds (enough to not lower the per school payout) to add any additional schools, things may be different down the road in being able to broadcast games for what would be the closest thing to a "national" conference.

Also, by taking the most desirable schools in the ACC and the PAC, that means no need to pay any serious $$ for the rights to those conferences, which leaves more $$ for the B1G and SEC.
And you would have new media centers added to the BIG and SEC pies.
 

Concur with the article that the next wave of realignment is coming, but will be relatively smaller moves, with the B1G and SEC sitting on the sidelines for now.

Once we get closer to the expiration of the ACC's GoR, that's when the seismic moves will happen.

Think the ACC schools well know that ESPN (which is bleeding $$) has little interest in upping their payout, and while the B1G broadcast partners seemingly weren't interested in ponying up additional funds (enough to not lower the per school payout) to add any additional schools, things may be different down the road in being able to broadcast games for what would be the closest thing to a "national" conference.

Also, by taking the most desirable schools in the ACC and the PAC, that means no need to pay any serious $$ for the rights to those conferences, which leaves more $$ for the B1G and SEC.
When that did not age well
 
When that did not age well

Pardon me for not have the foresight in knowing that the Presidents and Chancellors of the Pac12 schools were living in a fantasy land and totally out of touch with reality.

I've stated all along that as the B1G and SEC suck in more and more of the TV broadcast rights $$, there would be less $$ available for the other conferences.

ESPN approached the P12 in extending their contract for around the same amount the B12 ended up getting per school.

That made sense as ESPN already had the South and Texas/Oklahoma locked up with the SEC and ACC, so the P12 offered different markets as opposed to the B12 which overlapped a good bit with the SEC, and to a lesser extent, the ACC.

But the powers that be rejected that offer and countered with a ludicrous $50 million per school counter offer.

Even if USC and UCLA had still been in the fold, the P12 would have been lucky to even get close to that no, but without them, no chance they get anywhere near that.

So, ESPN ended up walking away from the table and basically offered the same deal to the B12 schools which they wisely accepted.

If the P12 had accepted that deal (probably would have been able to negotiate a little more $$, maybe $35 million per school), we'd be having a very different discussion with the P12 intact and the B12 scrambling for some kind of deal with Apple, etc.

The B1G had no intention of taking other P12 schools at the time, but once CU bolted with UA having a foot out the door, that's when the B1G reopened talks with Oregon and UDub.

I also stated this...

Both UDub and Oregon are flagship state schools with strong FB programs and local fan bases (unlike BC and GT) and they (on their own) still wouldn't bring in enough revenue w/o having to reduce each slice of the revenue pie.

Schools like UDub and Oregon probably will eventually get an invite b/c USC and UCLA don't want to always be playing the Sat late nite game, and with added WC schools, the B1G can add a revenue stream with a Fri late nite game.
.


The B1G ended up taking UDub and Oregon at heavily reduced shares.

That wouldn't have happened if the P12 had just accepted ESPN's offer.

What's interesting is how much the Domers have been pushing for the ACC to add Stanford and Cal (shows how weak the ACC is when ND, which isn't even a full member, has this much say/sway),

Adding Stanford and Cal (much less SMU) does little, if anything. in making the ACC more attractive to broadcasters/networks, etc.

Sure, by giving up a big chunk or all of its share (in the case of SMU), there will be a short-term financial bump, but not anything that would make up the gap between the B1G/SEC and the ACC.

The reason why the Domers are pushing hard for the Bay area schools is that ESPN has the right to renegotiate its deal with the ACC if the no. of schools fall below a certain amount (think it's 15).

So, if FSU and Clemson at some point decided to go for broke and leave, then the rest of the ACC schools would be in a dire situation.

By adding the Bay area schools, it would help ensure the viability of the ACC and that's what the Domers want - a place to park their Olympic sports and Stanford and Cal are Olympic sports powers.
 
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FSU and Clemson trying to leave would still be an extremely tough move to make work financially.

I just can't see it unless their fans/supporters/alums get so mad that they get forced into it, and even then it could handicap them longer than just waiting out the 12-13 years... (trying to leave in the early 2030s makes a lot more sense).

To break a 10+ year GoR, it would likely require them to borrow $200-300 million to cover a settlement to get back their TV rights from the conference along with paying the exit fee (even negotiated down).

They'd probably have to give up a pretty hefty chunk of their future (Big Ten or SEC) conference's revenue share to make the numbers work, and so where's all the gain in this?

If they're giving up $20 million a year for the next 20-25 years from their new conference to cover their ACC exit settlement, yes they're a bit ahead of where they are now, but they're still behind all their future conference-mates and for longer than otherwise if they entered as full members in the mid-2030s.

I tend to agree that everything will settle down now for another 7-8 years once we see some resolution to the final Pac-12 schools (Cal/Stanford to the ACC).

Stanford has an eventual route to the Big Ten (with Notre Dame) someday, but nothing short-term.
 
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Not surprised that NCST flipped as they can't be sure they have a spot in either the B1G or SEC.

Seems to be a matter of when and not if FSU and Clemson depart, so that leaves UNC.

Can see the Tar Heels sticking around if rest of the schools are willing to agree to uneven shares.

Doesn't have to end up being B1G or SEC money, but can see them being satisfied with less and remaining the big fish in the ACC (with their traditional BB rivals) as opposed to being just another school in the B1G.

But if the $$ difference is too large, then they probably do jump.

The question then is (if UNC jumps to the B1G), does the conf. take UVA along with UNC?

Unless things improve over the next decade or so on the gridiron, UVA doesn't bring much value, but guess if UNC wants to bring one partner, Fox Sports probably will agree to it.

Despite walking away from the negotiating table with the P12, ESPN, ultimately ends up with 6 P12 schools.

While not exactly the programs that draws viewers (still get a late night window), not having to pay for the other 6 programs did save them around 190 million/yr.
 
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Not surprised that NCST flipped as they can't be sure they have a spot in either the B1G or SEC.

Seems to be a matter of when and not if FSU and Clemson depart, so that leaves UNC.

Can see the Tar Heels sticking around if rest of the schools are willing to agree to uneven shares.

Doesn't have to end up being B1G or SEC money, but can see them being satisfied with less and remaining the big fish in the ACC (with their traditional BB rivals) as opposed to being just another school in the B1G.

But if the $$ difference is too large, then they probably do jump.

The question then is (if UNC jumps to the B1G), does the conf. take UVA along with UNC?

Unless things improve over the next decade or so on the gridiron, UVA doesn't bring much value, but guess if UNC wants to bring one partner, Fox Sports probably will agree to it.

Despite walking away from the negotiating table with the P12, ESPN, ultimately ends up with 6 P12 schools.

While not exactly the programs that draws viewers (still get a late night window), not having to pay for the other 6 programs did save them around 190 million/yr.
I’ll keep saying it as long as people keep posting it. Fsu and Clemson aren’t going anywhere for a long time (2035 maybe)
 
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