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Turnovers: The Cats' strange year

eastbaycat99

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2009
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Every week, posters on this board talk about the need to win the turnover battle and how that may be the deciding factor in the game. This year's turnover ledger has, to me, been an unusual one.

First of all, the total number of turnovers has been about even. The Cats have lost the ball 15 times and their opponents 14. The Cats did get a blocked punt, but also yielded a safety, and so you could view the total count as 16-15, or a minus 1 total.

Two things are truly unusual about the 16 number for the Cats. First, while the Cats have historically been very good in not losing fumbles, this year so far has been phenomenal. Historically, I noted after last year that Justin Jackson lost the ball fewer than 1 time in 300 touches. This year, the Cats have lost only 2 fumbles in 784 plays on offense, and both have come on sacks. The whole team has not lost a fumble on 341 regular rushing attempts. The second thing that is amazing to me, is that of 2 fumbles lost, one safety, and 13 interceptions, the only one that did not come from Thorson's hands was a T. J. Green interception. I don't mean to call Thorson out on this: sixteen turnovers in 10 games in not anywhere near a historical anomaly; nonetheless, to have all but one recorded against a single player is something that I imagine almost never happens.

Analyzing the effects of the turnovers shows that it was huge in only one game (Akron, where the Cats were -12 points), and pretty even over the rest of the year. Opponents have scored 9 touchdowns and 3 Field Goals after the Cats turned it over, along with one safety. The Cats have scored 9 touchdowns and 1 Field Goal after forcing the a turnover. With regards to the opponents scores, 7 TDs and 2 FGs came on a short field or pick/fumble TD, while 7 TDs and one FG came on a short field or pick/fumble TD for the Cats. The Cats have yielded 2 Pick 6's and one Fumble 6, while scoring once on an opponent's fumble.

In evaluating the Cats defense, 55 of 230 points allowed have come on TDs (with PAT), FGs on short fields or defensive TDs and the safety. If you remove those from the stats, the Cats are yielding a little less than 18 points a game from long drives, or 2 TDs and a little more than a field goal a game.

Finally, if you remove these points for the total to view which team's did the best in "pure" offense against the Cats, the ranking of points yielded comes to this:

Notre Dame 31
Nebraska 28
Purdue 27
Duke 21
Akron 20
Michigan 20
Rutgers 13
MSU 9
Wisconsin 3
Iowa 3

With the exception of Akron, where the defensive secondary melted down in the second half, these numbers made a huge amount of sense to me, and indicated once again that the Cats have done very well defensively against teams that are primarily run driven.

Finally, I think the coaching staff (and particularly the RB and receiver coaches) deserve a huge amount of praise for the way they have taught ball security. The fact the not a single turnover has come from the hands of a player who is not a quarterback is an amazing accomplishment.
 
Not included (and perhaps negligible, but I thought I'd include it):

The Cats are 12-for-26 (97th in nation) on fourth downs and their defense is 5-for-16 (ninth in nation). So that's three more net "turnovers" going against the Cats, though percentage wise they're so much better defensively than offensively, so it adds to the weirdness.

I wonder how much of the S&P anomalies come from going for it on fourth-and-seven from what could be field-goal range for some teams.
 
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One interesting stat to note is that NU is an NCAA leader in Fewest Penalties/Penalty Yards, and Fewest Fumbles Lost.

NCAA Stats

If you look at the list of teams with Fewest Fumbles Lost, they all seem to be having winning seasons. Perhaps, turnovers are not the problem, but fumbles lost are...

Maybe interceptions don't matter as much as fumbles b/c:
1) An interception thrown on 3-and-14 makes a bad situation a little worse, but a fumble on 3-and-2 can be devastating.
2) Interceptions are often random with batted balls, dropped passes, desperation heaves, etc.
3) An interception may just force the team to play more aggressively, and therefore may not be fatal.
3) A fumble may hurt a lot more because the team is actively trying to run out the clock and control possession.
4) A fumble after a WR catch is also problematic b/c the team likely had a 1st down and good yardage that was negated by the fumble.

Wisconsin and Iowa both imploded against us when they fumbled...

Anyways, the only stat that matters is WINS, but I agree, our team should be commended for ball security!
 
One interesting stat to note is that NU is an NCAA leader in Fewest Penalties/Penalty Yards, and Fewest Fumbles Lost.

NCAA Stats

If you look at the list of teams with Fewest Fumbles Lost, they all seem to be having winning seasons. Perhaps, turnovers are not the problem, but fumbles lost are...

Maybe interceptions don't matter as much as fumbles b/c:
1) An interception thrown on 3-and-14 makes a bad situation a little worse, but a fumble on 3-and-2 can be devastating.
2) Interceptions are often random with batted balls, dropped passes, desperation heaves, etc.
3) An interception may just force the team to play more aggressively, and therefore may not be fatal.
3) A fumble may hurt a lot more because the team is actively trying to run out the clock and control possession.
4) A fumble after a WR catch is also problematic b/c the team likely had a 1st down and good yardage that was negated by the fumble.

Wisconsin and Iowa both imploded against us when they fumbled...

Anyways, the only stat that matters is WINS, but I agree, our team should be commended for ball security!

Regarding interceptions, I never considered an interception on a long third down pass as necessarily a bad thing. So long as there is no return, it’s basically the same as a punt.
 
Regarding interceptions, I never considered an interception on a long third down pass as necessarily a bad thing. So long as there is no return, it’s basically the same as a punt.

On the other hand, a pick six is undeniably really bad!
 
Fa
Every week, posters on this board talk about the need to win the turnover battle and how that may be the deciding factor in the game. This year's turnover ledger has, to me, been an unusual one.

First of all, the total number of turnovers has been about even. The Cats have lost the ball 15 times and their opponents 14. The Cats did get a blocked punt, but also yielded a safety, and so you could view the total count as 16-15, or a minus 1 total.

Two things are truly unusual about the 16 number for the Cats. First, while the Cats have historically been very good in not losing fumbles, this year so far has been phenomenal. Historically, I noted after last year that Justin Jackson lost the ball fewer than 1 time in 300 touches. This year, the Cats have lost only 2 fumbles in 784 plays on offense, and both have come on sacks. The whole team has not lost a fumble on 341 regular rushing attempts. The second thing that is amazing to me, is that of 2 fumbles lost, one safety, and 13 interceptions, the only one that did not come from Thorson's hands was a T. J. Green interception. I don't mean to call Thorson out on this: sixteen turnovers in 10 games in not anywhere near a historical anomaly; nonetheless, to have all but one recorded against a single player is something that I imagine almost never happens.

Analyzing the effects of the turnovers shows that it was huge in only one game (Akron, where the Cats were -12 points), and pretty even over the rest of the year. Opponents have scored 9 touchdowns and 3 Field Goals after the Cats turned it over, along with one safety. The Cats have scored 9 touchdowns and 1 Field Goal after forcing the a turnover. With regards to the opponents scores, 7 TDs and 2 FGs came on a short field or pick/fumble TD, while 7 TDs and one FG came on a short field or pick/fumble TD for the Cats. The Cats have yielded 2 Pick 6's and one Fumble 6, while scoring once on an opponent's fumble.

In evaluating the Cats defense, 55 of 230 points allowed have come on TDs (with PAT), FGs on short fields or defensive TDs and the safety. If you remove those from the stats, the Cats are yielding a little less than 18 points a game from long drives, or 2 TDs and a little more than a field goal a game.

Finally, if you remove these points for the total to view which team's did the best in "pure" offense against the Cats, the ranking of points yielded comes to this:

Notre Dame 31
Nebraska 28
Purdue 27
Duke 21
Akron 20
Michigan 20
Rutgers 13
MSU 9
Wisconsin 3
Iowa 3

With the exception of Akron, where the defensive secondary melted down in the second half, these numbers made a huge amount of sense to me, and indicated once again that the Cats have done very well defensively against teams that are primarily run driven.

Finally, I think the coaching staff (and particularly the RB and receiver coaches) deserve a huge amount of praise for the way they have taught ball security. The fact the not a single turnover has come from the hands of a player who is not a quarterback is an amazing accomplishment.
Fantastic analysis, I wonder how many of the interceptions that hit receivers hands were catchable and how many were not.
 
Every week, posters on this board talk about the need to win the turnover battle and how that may be the deciding factor in the game. This year's turnover ledger has, to me, been an unusual one.

First of all, the total number of turnovers has been about even. The Cats have lost the ball 15 times and their opponents 14. The Cats did get a blocked punt, but also yielded a safety, and so you could view the total count as 16-15, or a minus 1 total.

Two things are truly unusual about the 16 number for the Cats. First, while the Cats have historically been very good in not losing fumbles, this year so far has been phenomenal. Historically, I noted after last year that Justin Jackson lost the ball fewer than 1 time in 300 touches. This year, the Cats have lost only 2 fumbles in 784 plays on offense, and both have come on sacks. The whole team has not lost a fumble on 341 regular rushing attempts. The second thing that is amazing to me, is that of 2 fumbles lost, one safety, and 13 interceptions, the only one that did not come from Thorson's hands was a T. J. Green interception. I don't mean to call Thorson out on this: sixteen turnovers in 10 games in not anywhere near a historical anomaly; nonetheless, to have all but one recorded against a single player is something that I imagine almost never happens.

Analyzing the effects of the turnovers shows that it was huge in only one game (Akron, where the Cats were -12 points), and pretty even over the rest of the year. Opponents have scored 9 touchdowns and 3 Field Goals after the Cats turned it over, along with one safety. The Cats have scored 9 touchdowns and 1 Field Goal after forcing the a turnover. With regards to the opponents scores, 7 TDs and 2 FGs came on a short field or pick/fumble TD, while 7 TDs and one FG came on a short field or pick/fumble TD for the Cats. The Cats have yielded 2 Pick 6's and one Fumble 6, while scoring once on an opponent's fumble.

In evaluating the Cats defense, 55 of 230 points allowed have come on TDs (with PAT), FGs on short fields or defensive TDs and the safety. If you remove those from the stats, the Cats are yielding a little less than 18 points a game from long drives, or 2 TDs and a little more than a field goal a game.

Finally, if you remove these points for the total to view which team's did the best in "pure" offense against the Cats, the ranking of points yielded comes to this:

Notre Dame 31
Nebraska 28
Purdue 27
Duke 21
Akron 20
Michigan 20
Rutgers 13
MSU 9
Wisconsin 3
Iowa 3

With the exception of Akron, where the defensive secondary melted down in the second half, these numbers made a huge amount of sense to me, and indicated once again that the Cats have done very well defensively against teams that are primarily run driven.

Finally, I think the coaching staff (and particularly the RB and receiver coaches) deserve a huge amount of praise for the way they have taught ball security. The fact the not a single turnover has come from the hands of a player who is not a quarterback is an amazing accomplishment.

This observation is truly amazing. All of our turnovers this year were quarterback initiated. This could very well be a first in modern football history. An outstanding find. And actually good news. Only one player has to improve in order to change the turnover balance.
 
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