Underwood hires assistant with Chicago connections

[scru]

Ron "Chin" Coleman who used to be the coach of the Mac Irvin Fire.

http://www.news-gazette.com/sports/...04-12/underwood-finalizes-coaching-staff.html

I find this quote from another story interesting...

[We] spoke with Mac Irvin Fire head coach and program director Mike Irvin for his reaction to the hire.

"I think he is one of the best assistants out here that they could have offered the job to. He definitely knows the landscape of Chicago. He definitely knows the backroads to get to everyone in Chicago. I think that will be a strong Chicago presence," Irvin said.

Many Illini fans will wonder if this hire helps with the Fire's prized prospect: 2018 five-star point guard Ayo Dosunmu.

"He'll have a good chance," Irvin said. "He'll have a good chance with everybody in Chicago. Not just Ayo."



So, are there people living in places in Chicago that Google Maps can't find? I wonder what these mysterious backroads are that he's referring to? (sarcasm alert)

I can't believe just how openly corrupt basketball recruiting is in Chicago.

 

[corbi296]

Ron "Chin" Coleman who used to be the coach of the Mac Irvin Fire.

http://www.news-gazette.com/sports/...04-12/underwood-finalizes-coaching-staff.html

I find this quote from another story interesting...

[We] spoke with Mac Irvin Fire head coach and program director Mike Irvin for his reaction to the hire.

"I think he is one of the best assistants out here that they could have offered the job to. He definitely knows the landscape of Chicago. He definitely knows the backroads to get to everyone in Chicago. I think that will be a strong Chicago presence," Irvin said.

Many Illini fans will wonder if this hire helps with the Fire's prized prospect: 2018 five-star point guard Ayo Dosunmu.

"He'll have a good chance," Irvin said. "He'll have a good chance with everybody in Chicago. Not just Ayo."



So, are there people living in places in Chicago that Google Maps can't find? I wonder what these mysterious backroads are that he's referring to? (sarcasm alert)

I can't believe just how openly corrupt basketball recruiting is in Chicago.

Come on, this type of stuff happens pretty much everywhere, not just Chicago. I will add that it's not just about money. Some of these inner city kids who play ball don't have stable family support systems and these AAU/school school coaches often provide guidance and support where there would otherwise be none. Are their motives completely altruistic? In most cases they are not but that does not mean that the kids are not deriving some benefit from their relationships with these individuals.

 

[Sec.112]

How should I say this nicely?

If you're a Chicago city high school player, and you get this speech about the INCREDIBLE high school basketball atmosphere, competition, legacy and how it can improve your game, you might want to consider who it's coming from.

The older I get, the more the myth of Chicago city hoops and its supposed "insiders" astounds me - especially if you want to talk about CPS. These guys have been selling a brand since the 90s that just doesn't exist anymore. Basketball is too big for this backstreets BS. Stunning players aren't exactly oozing out of the parks as they would love you to believe.

No doubt that if you want a GREAT player every five-to-ten years, visit our fair city. Since 1990 ... Rose, Magette, Richardson, Davis, Parker.

But if you're building a program, I still say the city itself is overrated - which is what these guys are selling. I'm not talking about the Chicagoland area. I'm talking about the city itself. The narrative is always about the city and its wink, wink deals.

Take a look at the ESPN top 100 players over the last 10 years. Chicago has 23 top-100 players. That's a lot, but not when you consider a population of 2.7 million.

I randomly chose a couple smaller cities as I did this quick survey.

Indianapolis - population 848,000 - 15 top 100s
Seattle - 668,000 - 11 top 100s

Hell, Dallas produces top 100 players at nearly the same rate per capita, 11 top-100s over ten years in a population of 1.3 million.

I'd be interested to see how Atlanta stacks up.

And when I say this, please keep in mind that I'm born and bred in the city ... a CPS grad.

I'd also be interested to ask Irvin if the city has all these "backroads" players, why are two guys on his AAU roster from Wisconsin?

These guys are selling an outdated brand. The hall of famers haven't been around for a while.

 

[corbi296]

How should I say this nicely?

If you're a Chicago city high school player, and you get this speech about the INCREDIBLE high school basketball atmosphere, competition, legacy and how it can improve your game, you might want to consider who it's coming from.

The older I get, the more the myth of Chicago city hoops and its supposed "insiders" astounds me - especially if you want to talk about CPS. These guys have been selling a brand since the 90s that just doesn't exist anymore. Basketball is too big for this backstreets BS. Stunning players aren't exactly oozing out of the parks as they would love you to believe.

No doubt that if you want a GREAT player every five-to-ten years, visit our fair city. Since 1990 ... Rose, Magette, Richardson, Davis, Parker.

But if you're building a program, I still say the city itself is overrated - which is what these guys are selling. I'm not talking about the Chicagoland area. I'm talking about the city itself. The narrative is always about the city and its wink, wink deals.

Take a look at the ESPN top 100 players over the last 10 years. Chicago has 23 top-100 players. That's a lot, but not when you consider a population of 2.7 million.

I randomly chose a couple smaller cities as I did this quick survey.

Indianapolis - population 848,000 - 15 top 100s
Seattle - 668,000 - 11 top 100s

Hell, Dallas produces top 100 players at nearly the same rate per capita, 11 top-100s over ten years in a population of 1.3 million.

I'd be interested to see how Atlanta stacks up.

And when I say this, please keep in mind that I'm born and bred in the city ... a CPS grad.

I'd also be interested to ask Irvin if the city has all these "backroads" players, why are two guys on his AAU roster from Wisconsin?

These guys are selling an outdated brand. The hall of famers haven't been around for a while.

Have to disagree. Who cares about per capita production. The reality is that if you are a college basketball coach, you are going to go where there is the biggest concentration of good basketball players, not the biggest concentration per capita. So if some tiny town in downstate Indiana population of 10 people has 1 good basketball player, are you seriously trying to argue that coaches should prioritize that town over recruiting Chicago? I don't think so.

You do have a point in saying that great basketball players are found throughout Chicagoland, not just the city. Having been involved in youth travel basketball with my youngest son, I can't imagine any area in the country having a more extensive and well developed youth basketball development system than the Chicago area. On any given weekend, you can walk into most gyms around the area and find a youth tournament with some pretty high level basketball going on even at a pretty young age. The area is basketball crazy and a lot talented players come out of this area. While the balance between the number of top players produced by the city vs. suburbs has become more balanced over the years, a lot of that has to do with the gentrification that has taken place in the city and the migration of inner city families to surrounding suburbs. Even when this is factored in, the City produces a disproportionate amount of the top players when you consider that some of the better players at private suburban schools are city kids that are commuting to the suburbs to go to school.

 

[Ubermorgen]

Mac Irvin Fire is a shoe company team. They have not participated in, nor been a member of the AAU for several years.

As far as the 2 players from Wisconsin, the NCAA allows youth teams playing in NCAA certified events to have 3 team members from an adjacent state.

 

[Sec.112]

... Who cares about per capita production ...

But isn't that a huge part of their pitch - the quality of player that comes out of the city, not just the quantity? As we see above, these guys regularly build their "resume" on the idea that THEY as coaches are better at producing players.

 

[Medill90]

How should I say this nicely?

These guys are selling an outdated brand. The hall of famers haven't been around for a while.

While I agree with much of what you've written, might it also be true that no school is more dependent on a Chicago pipeline than U of I? Not to be snarky, but perhaps that's why they've struggled.

 

[corbi296]

But isn't that a huge part of their pitch - the quality of player that comes out of the city, not just the quantity? As we see above, these guys regularly build their "resume" on the idea that THEY as coaches are better at producing players.

I didn't get that from what was posted above. While there are very good coaches in the city and the area, I think the most valid arguement for why Chicago produces so many good players is the level of competition and the amount of basketball that is played. The guy that is being hired by Illinois strikes me as a "relationship guy" more so than a guy that is the best at developing basketball players.

 

[NU Houston]

Mac Irvin Fire is a shoe company team. They have not participated in, nor been a member of the AAU for several years.

As far as the 2 players from Wisconsin, the NCAA allows youth teams playing in NCAA certified events to have 3 team members from an adjacent state.

Didn't Isiah Brown, who lived in Alaska at the time, play for an AAU team here in Houston? Maybe I'm missing the point here, and I admit to being blissfully ignorant on the details of the AAU world and "shoe company teams".

 

[corbi296]

While I agree with much of what you've written, might it also be true that no school is more dependent on a Chicago pipeline than U of I? Not to be snarky, but perhaps that's why they've struggled.

They've struggled because the elite players from Chicago are going to Duke, Kansas, Kentucky and Michigan State rather than Illinois. If one program could lock up the Chicago area consistently, they would be a perennial top 10 college basketball program.

 

[Ubermorgen]

Brown was last a member of AAU when he was 13. Looks like something may have been going on when he was 8. He is shown affiliated with a Houston team. For the balance of his years he is registered in Alaska or Washington.

If club teams are not playing in NCAA certified events, or AAU events, there are usually no restrictions on team rosters. AAU has a similar restriction of 3 players from an adjacent AAU District.

 

[Sec.112]

While I agree with much of what you've written, might it also be true that no school is more dependent on a Chicago pipeline than U of I? Not to be snarky, but perhaps that's why they've struggled.

If you want to look at it from a historical perspective, you might also include DePaul among the programs that need the city.

However, I'll use the UofI as a big fat example numero uno of this myth that the city is vital to the program.

Obviously during the days of Jimmy Collins Simeon and King high schools carried that program. (P.S. Three players from the city on the Flyin Illini.)

However since then, the Illini have had 12 team reach the round of 32. Thirteen players have been from the city, the best of which are Kiwane Garris, Deon Thomas, Luther Head and Jerry Gee. Eight players were from Peoria including Frank Williams, Sergio McClain, Jerry Hester and Marcus Griffin were on those 12 teams.

The Bill Self era that ended with Weber's team in the finals included three players from the city, Luther Head, Calvin Brock and Marcus Arnold - not exactly a strong dependency. The finals team included Head, Brock, Dee Brown, and Shaun Pruitt if we expand to the idea of the Chicago area.

 

[DaCat]

Have to disagree. Who cares about per capita production. The reality is that if you are a college basketball coach, you are going to go where there is the biggest concentration of good basketball players, not the biggest concentration per capita. So if some tiny town in downstate Indiana population of 10 people has 1 good basketball player, are you seriously trying to argue that coaches should prioritize that town over recruiting Chicago? I don't think so.

You do have a point in saying that great basketball players are found throughout Chicagoland, not just the city. Having been involved in youth travel basketball with my youngest son, I can't imagine any area in the country having a more extensive and well developed youth basketball development system than the Chicago area. On any given weekend, you can walk into most gyms around the area and find a youth tournament with some pretty high level basketball going on even at a pretty young age. The area is basketball crazy and a lot talented players come out of this area. While the balance between the number of top players produced by the city vs. suburbs has become more balanced over the years, a lot of that has to do with the gentrification that has taken place in the city and the migration of inner city families to surrounding suburbs. Even when this is factored in, the City produces a disproportionate amount of the top players when you consider that some of the better players at private suburban schools are city kids that are commuting to the suburbs to go to school.

This. Per capita data is less relevant than the absolute number in this argument. 23 top 100 players vs 10 or 11? Definitely gotta prioritize Chicago.