He was what we thought he was.Yeah but he was a prick
Washington Post story
- Thread starter Secho99
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Regarding the not commenting, Carmody was trapped by his own personality, in my opinion. He is not a BSer but instead a “tell it like it is” (dryly, even academically) type, so he would/could not go all warm and fuzzy with platitudes. He is a gentleman so he is not about to be tossing verbal grenades at anyone he feels angry at or disappointed by, especially if he had not unloaded his feelings (probably hurt) behind closed doors first -- which he may not have.
No coach wants to be known as an “excuse maker”, or a whiner, so best not to talk about untimely injuries, barriers to recruiting a deep roster, or substandard facilities etc. Finally, he is a proud guy and has a right to be considering the accolades and praise coming his way over the years. Why should he then be expected to say and see in print, “didn’t finish the transformation”, “couldn’t find a way, in the end”, “wasn’t quite good enough or persuasive enough”, or some other introspective mea culpa.
The Carmody we knew was a realist and seemed kind of self-deprecating by nature, and so he wouldn’t claim to be God’s gift to basketball who was unappreciated and then unjustly dismissed. Bob Knight he is not. By doing nothing to embarrass the program or the school, and by elevating its basketball fortunes quite a bit, he earned the right to keep his personal reflections to himself, and move on quietly. I am not surprised by that.
No coach wants to be known as an “excuse maker”, or a whiner, so best not to talk about untimely injuries, barriers to recruiting a deep roster, or substandard facilities etc. Finally, he is a proud guy and has a right to be considering the accolades and praise coming his way over the years. Why should he then be expected to say and see in print, “didn’t finish the transformation”, “couldn’t find a way, in the end”, “wasn’t quite good enough or persuasive enough”, or some other introspective mea culpa.
The Carmody we knew was a realist and seemed kind of self-deprecating by nature, and so he wouldn’t claim to be God’s gift to basketball who was unappreciated and then unjustly dismissed. Bob Knight he is not. By doing nothing to embarrass the program or the school, and by elevating its basketball fortunes quite a bit, he earned the right to keep his personal reflections to himself, and move on quietly. I am not surprised by that.
My main beef was the idiotic attacks of Phillips in here. Just ludicrous.
And I do think Carmody is prickish for saying nothing about a school that was very patient and good to him. Like the entire tenure was just a giant waste of his time. When some asks you how your day went, and you respond with "I don't want to talk about it"...that's not a positive thing AT ALL.
And I do think Carmody is prickish for saying nothing about a school that was very patient and good to him. Like the entire tenure was just a giant waste of his time. When some asks you how your day went, and you respond with "I don't want to talk about it"...that's not a positive thing AT ALL.
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This just may be a case where, at the time, the coach, the AD and others just did not know this could be done. They certainly didn't do it at Princeton or Northern Illinois.
Coming from Duke Collins had higher expectations but he also had much more information on how a cutting-edge program is run.
You know exactly what I'm talking about. Phillps left Carmody out to dry!? Please....
Do you think Phillips is doing a good job, jules?
Wow, you really know how to twist something when you just don't like a person. The quote was "It’s nothing against anyone there — it’s not. I just don’t want to talk about it.". It is exactly the kind of thing Carmody would say to a reporter. He wasn't asked about the administration or the school. He was asked about the 13 years of not making it to the NCAA tournament. He was not going to blame conditions at the school for that. What are you expecting him to say when asked why he couldn't get NU to the tournament? "Well the school backed me fully and I was just not the right person for the job. Phillips did the right thing in letting me go and Collins is a better fit." Is that what you really expect him to say? Be real. You may not like BC as a coach but respect him as a person. He did not have what was needed to take us to a tournament. We still don't know if Collins has what is needed but it is a refreshing change and one that was the right move to make. But don't be a dick about the old coach. He has not said a bad word about anything that has happened. He has never made an excuse for why he couldn't win. Just let him be and get off your rant.
And I was just starting to think how well we were playing in the sandbox this year.
Let me just throw this out there: I tend to go in the same direction as Virginia, but I'm a jerk that way. OTOH, I can somewhat understand that Billy C's wounds may not be healed.
However, if the same games are being played in three or four years - and ESPECIALLY after Phillips has left - then Carmody deserves the criticism.
I'm still looking forward to a standing "O" and uncomfortable handshake with CC on Billy C Day.
OK, Marty, that's enough of a trip in the time machine.
Let me just throw this out there: I tend to go in the same direction as Virginia, but I'm a jerk that way. OTOH, I can somewhat understand that Billy C's wounds may not be healed.
However, if the same games are being played in three or four years - and ESPECIALLY after Phillips has left - then Carmody deserves the criticism.
I'm still looking forward to a standing "O" and uncomfortable handshake with CC on Billy C Day.
OK, Marty, that's enough of a trip in the time machine.
I think that Carmody just wants to take the high road and not talk about a topic that he may not be comfortable with and he doesn't want to say anything that gets misconstrued. Of course after seeing how even essentially a "No comment" reply generates another sh$t storm around here, I don't blame him for not commenting.
What did you all want Carmody to say? I'm glad he took the high road. Any version of that story written by a Duke grad who's known Collins 20 years was going to make him out as half-villain, half-incompetent. (And I'm a huge Collins fan, btw.)
You don't think it's odd that Collins gets a bigger recruiting budget, a brand-new scoreboard, and a bigger travel budget? To me, it shows that Phillips didn't go the extra mile for Carmody and wanted to hold back those goodies for a splashy hire.
So you essentially think Phillips sabotaged Carmody. Pleeeeeeze...
Collins was pro-active in demanding that stuff. Carmody wasn't at all. He didn't even go the extra mile for recruiting...
I think Carmody will be more talkative after he retires. Carmody may be an intellectual guy more than a scream-o like Crean, but Carmody is still a competitor. He doesn't want to talk about NU because he believes he could have gotten us to the NCAAs and he doesn't believe Collins is better. How he's at Holy Cross and even though HC doesn't play NU, he views NU as competition. That's a competitor for you, and there's no apology needed for that.
I suspect that Phillips won't be our AD and Collins won't be our coach on Billy C Day, whenever that happens. Phillips will be Big Ten Commissioner and Collins will be at Duke or Notre Dame replacing K or Brey.
I never said "sabotaged." I just think Phillips always had it in the back of his mind that he wanted to save some things for "his guy." There's nothing wrong about that, either. Every AD wants to hire his own guy. I'm saying that it's easy to see why Carmody didn't like it.
Also, do you have proof that the recruiting budget and travel budget have been exponentionally increased, or are you just BSing to make your boy Carmody a vicitim?
Who knows if it represents an "exponential" increase, but from the Post article, NU is spending more now:
<<When he arrived, Collins immediately addressed concerns with the school’s recruiting budget and travel arrangements.
“I knew from my Duke experience how much that stuff mattered, especially in recruiting,” he said. “I told Jim we needed to get our boosters to help. The team needed to fly privately to games. My staff and I needed to be able to get to places quickly when recruiting. The funny thing is, as soon as he began talking to people to try to raise the extra money their reaction was, ‘Of course, where have you been in the past?’ ”>>
Sounds like a coach who knows what it takes to build a program and be proactive about it, much moreso than the previous coach. Maybe if Carmody had been more active in the recruiting game, he would've asked for such things and gotten them...
But no...surely it's just that Phillips acted like a (deleted) *eye roll*
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CCC asked for some of the things. Did BC? If he did and was not given them, then it is a valid point but if not, why are you suggesting Phillips was withholding from him? In general, if you need something, you put together a presentation to show why you need it and how it will benefit. If you don't make such a presentation, whose fault is it you are not getting additional funds? Got to realize that part of a coaches responsibilities is helping with fundraising. How much of that did BC do and how good was he at doing it? Having an out reach type of guy like CCC (similar to Fitz)probably made reaching into donors pockets easier and more successful for getting the upgrades.
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So CCC asked for it and BC didn't. Pretty good reason why it was not provided for BC
And the thing is, he's always kept his mouth shut about the inner workings of the program, even when it would have helped him to speak up. There are some stories about his tenure that seem to reflect badly on him -- one was mentioned upthread -- but notice that his side of those stories was never made public. That's not accidental. So to expect him to behave any differently now is silly. He might not be very "coachy" in his interactions with the media, but he's always been a loyal soldier wherever he's worked.
The story does not say what Carmody might have sought but didn't receive. We don't know for sure that he sought anything, but I can recall from at least one pregame shindig that he was all for a new scoreboard, only for season ticket holders to say that they asked Phillips and were told that it was not possible due to W-R Arena electrical issues.
I did not say anything about an "exponentional" increase. Can you read?
Also, private air travel is definitely a big increase. Maybe you could try flying out to Illinois and attending an actual game. I don't think that you have ever seen an NU game in person since you're an Iowa fan.
I've been to countless games. But keep up the woefully stupid personal attacks. It just makes you look like a fool...
The air travel budget is for a coach that actually takes the time to recruit! Thank goodness Phillips gets that!
Oh cool, it's the triumphant return of Purp vs. Virginia. Just what everyone on the board was seeking...NOT! You might want to make note of then fact that the mods are MUCH more active than when you did this dance the first time around, if you enjoy posting here....
But that's not at all the context of the story.
He didn't want to talk about his greatest failure as a coach, one that he was frustratingly close to. Because anything he could say would come off as an excuse as to why he didn't get the job all the way done. The Point A to Point B but not quite Point C stuff is a pretty fair assessment of Carmody's tenure and the records compared to others who have tried over the last 60+ years (including Hall of Famers) speak to that.
It's not like Feinstein asked "what do you think of Northwestern?" and Carmody said "Eff em"
But I don't think you can drop your anti-Carmody bias enough to realize he did a very good job to get us from Point A to Point B and put us in a position where someone like Collins would find our program attractive.
Hopefully we do get to Point C under Collins, so we don't have to deal with these articles much longer.
It's funny he won't admit that he is. Or that he used to pretend to be a woman. I'm not worried about the mods...I don't make personal attacks. Purp, on the other hand, won't last long.
My dislike for Carmody isn't so much that I don't believe he didn't get to point B. He def got us there. It was other things I really didn't like. Whether you want to admit it or not, he really did come across as an arrogant prick quite often. Remember when he yelled "Why do I keep doing this?" to the crowd during a game when his player made a mistake. He never referred to his players as "we", always as "they" in the post-game after losses. He was terribly unenergetic (refs never respected him) which may or may not have played a role In our atrocious record in late season important games. Etc, etc,
It's going to seem like nitpicking to the Carmody lovers (especially those who still hold a grudge), but it was a lot of little things that I found distasteful about him. Of course there were the bigger things like being a terrible recruiter (but I will give him props for bringing in Shurna who was simply amazing) and such. He really wasn't the guy to lead a high-major D1 program to the tournament. And of course, for so long anytime someone might bring something like that up, the mob of Carmody people torched them alive, which kind of made me enjoy doing it more. To me, his "I don't want to talk about it" comes across more as sour grapes than anything else.
All that said, I like playing now the role of Pollyanna (as I do now) much more. It's Mich more enjoyable and I like Collins personality so much more which makes me root even harder for him. It does kind of make me feel bad for the people who're still unable to let go of the fact Carmody was fired, because I know the thought of another coach leading them to the tourney is painful, and some (which has become obvious) can't even bring themselves to root for the team.
Fair explanation of your views. I don't agree with all of them but I respect your opinions.
Can you move on now and stop with the BC criticisms? It has been almost 3 years and NU is in a much better place now.
Move on? I didn't start this thread. I was commenting on the topic. Maybe you need to move on...
Oh no another warning from you know who. If the board becomes controlled by "burning the books types" then participation will lessen even more, to bad.
What I like about this thread is that it's all fresh material. You'd never be able to guess the names of posters by their comments.
It's one thread...is that really so difficult for you to manage. Instead of responding to my previous post, you want to be sarcastic and indignant...lol Why do people still get so upset and defensive over discussing Carmody on occasion? It's not like it's every post (I didn't even start this thread...I just commented on it). I thought I laid out my reasoning fairly well in my previous post...and that's when people suddenly stop responding. They don't want "well-reasoned", they just want to be offended.
If the rare Carmody thread is just so difficult for you to handle...I kind of feel sorry for you. Not everything is roses and cherries all the time. If this season hasn't taught us that, just go back to every previous season...
But Phillips gets called a "pussy" and nobody has any problem with it...lol
Right, so what should we all discuss, why the students don't show or why the purple seats are half empty, or why many ST holders sell tickets to opposing fans. Are any of those things OK? BTW, we have discussed other past coaches hers, like O'Neil, Winters, Falk, Foster and it just so happens that Carmody is the most recent, thus most interesting for the moment. Now let's guess who CC will bring in when that next schlorship becomes available. Maybe a 5th year PG or C. Happy now?
