Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Persa is 10th on the list all time great NU QB's. Thorson is #1. Persa got injured. Stop arguing a hypothetical.Thorson wasn’t even a dual-threat QB before his injury. Carrying the ball once or twice a game to keep the defense honest does not make you a dual-threat QB. And I appreciate Clayton, but Persa was our best overall QB in the post-1995 era by a mile.
Persa has the best season and was the most dynamic. His junior year was great, primarily because he was Hodini getting away from the rush. However, I like winning games, and NU was what 7-6 that year. His Senior year was not the same as he was robbed of his mobility. If I recall correctly he rarely ran. NU also was in the 500 range. This isn’t intended to be a Persa bash because I like just about everyone thought he was terrific. However, Thorson has to be strongly considered for the best. I have him comfortablely ahead of Kafka, CJ and Trevor. I have him slightly over Persa and Kustok. Right up there with my biased favorite of Baz.Persa is 10th on the list all time great NU QB's. Thorson is #1. Persa got injured. Stop arguing a hypothetical.
That was the description of Hughes in Athlon or Street and Smith's that year. That is why those descriptions were in quotes. Sheesh.Let’s all blast a guy who did his best and is long gone. Nice.
Persa is 10th on the list all time great NU QB's. Thorson is #1. Persa got injured. Stop arguing a hypothetical.
I will not. And it’s not a hypothetical.Persa is 10th on the list all time great NU QB's. Thorson is #1. Persa got injured. Stop arguing a hypothetical.
Persa, Baz, Siemian, Thorson, Kustok, Bacher, KafkaPersa, Basanez, Kustok
I almost put Bacher instead of Kustok.
Bacher was as explosive a QB as we've had and had some of the best individual performances ever. A gunslinger. The two game stretch against MSU and Minnesota where he put up almost 1000 yards and 9 TDs vs. 0 INTs was the peak QB performance I've ever seen. He just played on teams with the worst defenses ever.
Len Williams I guess doesn't count since he's pre-95.
I was gonna like this message bc that scramble against Michigan was so incredible, and his play all day. But then to put Thorson #1, above Persa, I had to hold off...It's so hard for me to pick, but his scramble for TD in the Michigan game is probably the best NU QB scramble ever - better than even anything Colter did.
If I had to pick, it would be Thorson though.
It was described a
Dream scenario for me is Persa comes to NU as the QB coach. I remember him saying he doesn't want to be a head coach but loves working 1 on 1 with players, which a QB essentially does.
Not gonna happen. I suspect Hunter will be a stronger passer (similar in accuracy, but stronger arm strength and downfield ability) but he won't be the dynamic run threat that Persa was.
"Chance" vs. "reality". Not meant to diminish Persa, he was an amazing QB.NU lost its last 3 games after Persa went down. I believe he would've won 2 if not all 3 games if he didn't get injured. So that also points to his value as a QB, going 7-3 with a mediocre team, with a chance to be 10-3 that year.
I was gonna like this message bc that scramble against Michigan was so incredible, and his play all day. But then to put Thorson #1, above Persa, I had to hold off...
"Chance" vs. "reality". Not meant to diminish Persa, he was an amazing QB.
I was at that blowout in Madison, and we wouldn't have won that game if there had been two Persas. In fairness, we had NO sufficient backup, but in general we were no match for the Badgers that year.I was replying to the comment that NU only finished 7-6 during Persa's junior year. When he blew out his Achilles vs. Iowa on the winning TD, NU got to 7-3. The last 3 games of that season were the Wrigley Field loss to LOLinois, the blowout loss at Madison, and the bowl loss to TT. I would argue that we would've won at least 2 out of 3, if not 3 out of 3, if Persa did not get injured and had his season cut short.
Disagree.Persa is 10th on the list all time great NU QB's. Thorson is #1. Persa got injured. Stop arguing a hypothetical.
Right, but that's two different questions.Disagree.
If we're talking about careers then yes, Thorson win's by a country mile.
If I could have any one of the post-95 QB's healthy, I'd take Persa. It's not even close.
Well the question just asks which QB. So based on ability and intangibles , I’d pick Persa.Right, but that's two different questions.Disagree.
If we're talking about careers then yes, Thorson win's by a country mile.
If I could have any one of the post-95 QB's healthy, I'd take Persa. It's not even close.
I was at that blowout in Madison, and we wouldn't have won that game if there had been two Persas. In fairness, we had NO sufficient backup, but in general we were no match for the Badgers that year.
I think the team fell apart after Persa's injury. I can't help think how badly we would've lost to other teams like Iowa that year if we didn't have Persa. He made that much difference.
Agreed. Persa carried that team on his back. Anyone who doesn’t think our recruiting and depth is light years ahead of what it was as recently as five years ago just needs to compare the roster while Persia was there to our current roster. No contest.
I know I already responded to this post, but I didn't have time to address it adequately the first time. A couple of reactions:Persa is 10th on the list all time great NU QB's. Thorson is #1. Persa got injured. Stop arguing a hypothetical.
How about the O Lines?I know I already responded to this post, but I didn't have time to address it adequately the first time. A couple of reactions:
First, I find the focus on cumulative career yards or TDs to miss the point of the OP. The question is which post-'95 QB you would choose to compete for a B1G and national title. I think that allows you to choose the snapshot of a pre-injury Persa. And saying one player was "greater" than the other because he played longer without serious injury strikes me as being the same as what Trump said about preferring heroes who didn't get caught. (Sorry for the political reference; it just seemed apt.)
Second, if you look at averages and ratings, rather than the fact that one guy started for four years rather than less than two (and therefore obviously had higher cumulative yards and TDs), the answer becomes clear. Persa's career completion percentage was an astounding 72.7%, while Thorson's was 58.4%. Persa's TD/INT ratio was 34/13, while Thorson's was 61/45. Persa's QB rating was 155.0, while Thorson's was 118.1. Moreover, in his one year as starter before his achilles injury, Persa even rushed for 519 yards (which I assume might be net of sacks).
Third, to the extent you are focusing on total career wins and bowl victories, Thorson played with a much better defense and with better RB help.
And I am not trying to disrespect Thorson at all. He was a real warrior for us--a great player and person. It's just that due to recency bias and cumulative numbers, we sometimes tend to forget how good Persa was.
I actually thought they were deficient in both eras. Persa took a lot fewer sacks because of his Houdini-like escapability.How about the O Lines?
Persa with our current defense and RBs like JJ/Larkin and Bowser would have been something. Then again we don't have any WRs nearly as talented as Ebert. I think with Persa healthy, he and Ebert break a lot of records and frankly I think Ebert gets a much better look in the NFL. It was hard to maximize him with Kain being more of a runner.
Fair enough.I really don't understand the point of all these posts analyzing our QB play recently (not attacking the merits of this one specifically but others).
Some have been targeted explicitly at CT to diminish him, which seems foolish given what the guy gave to this program.
The only thing that matters to me is winning and longevity. That's it; I don't care about style points; maybe that will change if we're in the national title hunt someday, but right now style points mean nothing. We need as many Ws as we can get, whether in overtime or by multiple touchdowns in regulation. Right now they all count the same. I don't care if we beat Rutgers by 3 points or Minnesota by 39.
As far as our best QBs go, if I needed a guy who can basically carry an offense singlehandedly, it's got to be Persa.
But nobody beats CT in terms of his longevity and commitment to working hard for this program and making winning plays in tight games over 4 years.
I really don't understand the point of all these posts analyzing our QB play recently (not attacking the merits of this one specifically but others).
Some have been targeted explicitly at CT to diminish him, which seems foolish given what the guy gave to this program.
The only thing that matters to me is winning and longevity. That's it; I don't care about style points; maybe that will change if we're in the national title hunt someday, but right now style points mean nothing. We need as many Ws as we can get, whether in overtime or by multiple touchdowns in regulation. Right now they all count the same. I don't care if we beat Rutgers by 3 points or Minnesota by 39.
As far as our best QBs go, if I needed a guy who can basically carry an offense singlehandedly, it's got to be Persa.
But nobody beats CT in terms of his longevity and commitment to working hard for this program and making winning plays in tight games over 4 years.
We apparently love our dual-threat QB's. Thorson wasn't dual threat? Anyone who thinks not, were you watching this year?-- He is just a different kind of dual threat. His record speaks to this. He is the best QB overall that we have had since before the dark ages.
I was replying to the comment that NU only finished 7-6 during Persa's junior year. When he blew out his Achilles vs. Iowa on the winning TD, NU got to 7-3. The last 3 games of that season were the Wrigley Field loss to LOLinois, the blowout loss at Madison, and the bowl loss to TT. I would argue that we would've won at least 2 out of 3, if not 3 out of 3, if Persa did not get injured and had his season cut short.
There are two discussions you can never win on this board:What's odd about this thread is that whenever we lose a game, whether it be because of injury, poor play, great play but stupid mistakes, a bad team surprising us, whatever, that is a LOSS. It's traumatic, everyone freaks out and wants to fire all the coaches and the number goes in the wrong column. The first time in quite a while I can remember that not happening is THIS YEAR, against ND and OSU, which were generally recognized as better teams who we were likely not to beat (except in ECAT's mind). Why? Because we were darn good too and we played them both well. But this is the rare exception to the usual response of going catatonic after a loss, much less a losing season (for whatever reason) Why? Clayton Thorson, along with a great D. Oh, and by the way we won a Division Title outright
(Which NU QBs (since '95) would you choose to compete for a BT ...Title). There are so many variables in winning and losing, but it is clear from past history that we value the WINNER. Thorson is the winner, this not hypothetical.
Persa was a great QB, no question, but one might remember that one of the reasons he scrambled for so many yards was because he had to. What if all he had to do was hand the ball off and pass most of the time, behind a great OLine, would his stats have been better, the same? He was a great QB for the situation at the time, but he ended up IMO pushing himself so hard in doing that, he got injured. Fact is, if we had a complete and across the board outstanding team, capable of winning a (blank) title, I would choose any of the QB's we've been discussing to lead that team. Thorson is one who did it, leading an imperfect team.
We apparently love our dual-threat QB's. Thorson wasn't dual threat? Anyone who thinks not, were you watching this year?-- He is just a different kind of dual threat. His record speaks to this. He is the best QB overall that we have had since before the dark ages.
Thorson wasn’t even a dual-threat QB before his injury. Carrying the ball once or twice a game to keep the defense honest does not make you a dual-threat QB. And I appreciate Clayton, but Persa was our best overall QB in the post-1995 era by a mile.
Ebert was great but we have several good WRs on this team. Football is a game of attrition. You need quality and depth in order to have sustained success.
Tough call. Probably go with Kafka.
Kafka was really raw (as a passer) coming into the program, but worked hard at his craft and by the time he was a SR, was able to put up 3,430 passing yds; of the Fitz-era QBs, only surpassed by one only QB (Bacher w/ 3,656 passing yds in 2007).