"Secret scrimmage" vs. Iowa State
- Thread starter FeralFelidae
- Start date
I saw some posts on another ISU board saying that while they lost to Creighton by a fair amount in that scrimmage, they weren't embarrassed.
I hope NU coaching staff got a great video of the secret scrimmage.
Maybe we put a recording device near the Iowa State coach to try to pick up everything he said.
After all Oetzelberger took over an Iowa State team that was 2-22, hit the transfer portal for players and made the Sweet 16 the next season.
Guy must be able to evaluate players, or coach them or something.
NU has to identify players early and get them before they blow up. Nwoko they identified and had him in campus, they he had a good EYBL summer and went to Miami. Same Friedhosen who went to Notre Dame. Cam Carr looked like a possibility, but Louisville and Virgina came in. Cadeau transferring to Link Academy drove Carr's stock up.. The Chicago guard they were after went to Princeton and another went to Virgina Tech.
They have Beran a four star, but he is not playing at a four star level, Simmons a four star did not pan out and he transferred to Yale. Berry was supposed to be a lights out shooter, Need Brook's and Chase to stay healthy and play to their potential.
A 4 star should get a team 15-4-4 a game. 3 star 10-3-3. The lights out shooter should shoot 3 pointers at a 40% clip and shoot 7 to 10 per game.
Hopefully, they can pull it all together this year.
They have Beran a four star, but he is not playing at a four star level, Simmons a four star did not pan out and he transferred to Yale. Berry was supposed to be a lights out shooter, Need Brook's and Chase to stay healthy and play to their potential.
A 4 star should get a team 15-4-4 a game. 3 star 10-3-3. The lights out shooter should shoot 3 pointers at a 40% clip and shoot 7 to 10 per game.
Hopefully, they can pull it all together this year.
Cats were wise to get in early on Cerda and Pickens and may still have chance with Carr. Louisville received other guard commitment today and Virginia and Tennessee are both stacked at 2 guard. He’s expected to announce soon.
I think you need to reground your expectations.
By my count, there were 3 players in the top 6 conferences last season that averaged 15 points, 4 rebounds and 4 assists per game (another ~20 players in smaller conferences, almost all of whom would've been a 3 star or below). Similarly, 13 players in all of college basketball (4 in major conferences) shot at least 40% from beyond the arc on 7 or more attempts per game. And obviously that covers 4-5 recruiting classes. It would've taken forever to tally up 3-stars, but there are about 200 of those per year, and there's no way 10-3-3 is the average...I don't even think 10 points and either 3 rebounds or 3 assists would be the average.
Nope, will not adjust.
If you are a coach and hold your players to that expectation you might get better result. Might not be every game, but it will make the players play harder.
2 point from an offensive rebound.
4 to 6 point of steals and transitions
Play breaks down and you score off a shot.
Not one play was run for the player and there is ten points
To me thats what a coach should expect, practice that way, youp,ay that way.
Right off the bat, you said it was to hard. So the players won't every try to achieve,
If you are a coach and hold your players to that expectation you might get better result. Might not be every game, but it will make the players play harder.
2 point from an offensive rebound.
4 to 6 point of steals and transitions
Play breaks down and you score off a shot.
Not one play was run for the player and there is ten points
To me thats what a coach should expect, practice that way, youp,ay that way.
Right off the bat, you said it was to hard. So the players won't every try to achieve,
So Illinois has 9 4-star recruits and 2 3-star recruits on the roster. By your logic, the team should average 155 points per game this season.
Sure, that's what an average is.
Using your logic, we want to serve the boys cookies and milk and give them a participation trophy
But in all seriousness, they are not playing up to the level of play expected
Using your logic, we want to serve the boys cookies and milk and give them a participation trophy
But in all seriousness, they are not playing up to the level of play expected
Nwoko came to NU for a visit. They were on his radar.
He was not signed and had a tremendous EYBL season. Miami came in with and offer and he ended up there,
He was not signed and had a tremendous EYBL season. Miami came in with and offer and he ended up there,
Top 100 senior Cameron Carr discusses visits as he nears decision
Few players in the class of 2023 have had a more active start to the school year or seen their recruitment take off like four-star Cameron Carr. A 6-foot-4 combo guard
247sports.com
It’s pretty clear that Beran isn’t a four-star player, no matter what the recruiting rankings said.
I do believe CCC considers star rankings in identifying recruiting priorities.
The best player on this roster is no-star Boo.
Can someone translate this into English for me please?
All the 2023 basketball recruits had no stars. They are working towards getting ranked, meaning they should have a good work ethic coming into NU.
Nothing given, but earned.
Nothing given, but earned.
I think I might go to the Chicago State game tomorrow and yell repeatedly
"Coach Collins! ZERO FIVE THIRTEEN THIRTY-ONE THIRTY-FOUR"
until they take me away for evaluation...
Collins would probably think I'm giving him Powerball numbers, but maybe, just maybe, he'd realize that it is his best starting lineup. I am confident the assistant coaches and players would get the message.
"Coach Collins! ZERO FIVE THIRTEEN THIRTY-ONE THIRTY-FOUR"
until they take me away for evaluation...
Collins would probably think I'm giving him Powerball numbers, but maybe, just maybe, he'd realize that it is his best starting lineup. I am confident the assistant coaches and players would get the message.
Barnhizer and Roper have that work ethic, there is no doubt in my mind.
Give those guys starters roles.
Audige works hard too but he thinks he is the best player on the team, when he isn't, and that is a big problem.
If Collins had the courage and insight to bring Audige off the bench, he'd play better and we'd play better.
Audige is clearly our best player. Showed that very clearly in the game vs. Quincy. He was hurt last year (missed the first seven games!) so no he should not start on the bench so that Nicholson can start..
Audidge and MN play the same spot in the CCC system?!?!? Geez, things are worse than I could have imagined. I mean PF at the 5 but MN at the 2? Or is it Audidge at the 5? I’m going to guess the latter since CCC has a history of putting the wrong guys at the 5.
Anybody remember Ben Gordon from the Bulls? Probably one of the best six man players and definite closer. And at times, he was arguably the most talented guy on the Bulls.
There is nothing to support that opinion.
There is a ton of data to say Audige hurt the team last year.
It isn't worth arguing.
I am amazed at how random people's opinions are.
Audige should come off the bench because Collins has to rein him in. So far he has failed to do that. They both have failed.
Nicholson should start over the grad transfer Verhoeven. That specific thing has nothing to do with Audige. Hopefully you knew that and thought you were being funny?
To rebut your two points:
Audige was hurt last year. Yes, he hurt the team with shot selection. What I saw in the exhibition game gave me hope that he will be better this year. He far outplayed Boo who is the second best player on the team. And Chase brings defense at an all B1G level. No one else on the team is close.
Nicholson still needs work. Verhoeven is the tallest midget between the two. Both will get minutes because both will struggle with fouls. Verhoeven has the edge because he is much more experienced and more athletic around the basket.
The guy plays great defense. He guarded the other team's best player, so no, he didn't hurt the team, and he was playing HURT. He said so much in the postgame Wednesday night. Audige was, and still is, the only player who can create his own shot. And much as I would love to see him win a starting job, anybody who watched the exhibition game realized Big Matt still needs work to get to that point. He'll get plenty of minutes in the non conference games to show he's ready.
Audige was the best player the other night. Played under control, took good shots, moved the ball and defended at a high level.
I only saw one bad shot.
If they used Matt in a screen roll situation where he is a lob threat, might benefit him. He struggles as a post up center.
Hopefully, Hungar was just nervous in his first game, Need him on the floor when they run the horns set and pick n pop on offense. His defense needs to improve a lot.
I only saw one bad shot.
If they used Matt in a screen roll situation where he is a lob threat, might benefit him. He struggles as a post up center.
Hopefully, Hungar was just nervous in his first game, Need him on the floor when they run the horns set and pick n pop on offense. His defense needs to improve a lot.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't believe Audige was playing hurt.
Not the entire season.
And even if he was a little dinged up, nobody was forcing him to try to be the man on offense.
The whole "he was hurt but he tried to be Superman anyhow, even if he was terrible on offense" doesn't work for me on any level. I think Roper is better and I prefer Barnhizer at the 3 because he is bigger.
Nicholson played fine in the exhibition against Quincy. His size is a big advantage over Verhoeven and his upside is definitely higher. I don't think the Quincy game means a hell of a lot, but since you want to base your evaluation of players on that one game, I'll point out to you that when Nicholson entered the game for the first time, when Beran was on the floor and the score was 10-7, we immediately went on a 12-2 run. And Collins took Nicholson out and brought in Luke Hunger.
Defensively, its a mixed bag with Audige. Tenacious? yes. Physical? yes. Good at defending his guy when they're basically playing one-on-one? Yes.
Did you see him get smoked for a back door cut and thunder slam by some nondescript Quincy guy? Thats also Audige. Great solo defender when he is in position. Not great team defender. Like Beran, he loses track of whats going on, gets caught in switches, etc.
Roper plays defense. Buie and Berry, not so much.
It’s going to be a long year on the court and especially on this BBall board.
Audige did get burned on the back door, but the backside help defender was not in the correct spot. That was the issue with that.
When the ball is on the string side, the weak side defenders should be just outside the key to stop back doors.. does not make sense to deny your man when your man is on the weak side.
Boo and Berry were terrible on weak side close outs. Several times each stayed with his man instead of rotating to the player with the ball. Lead to multiple open shots. That's needs to be fixed.
Matt does have a role on the team. His defense was great, was moving his feet and did a great job hedging on the screens. He does need to box out more on defensive shots and not just use his height. Also, on offense he bring the ball down to his waist too much, that's wht guards tend to bother his shot. He is also capable of making a 12-15 foot jump,shot. Maybe on double screens away from the ball, have him be the second cutter and that would open that shot for him.
When the ball is on the string side, the weak side defenders should be just outside the key to stop back doors.. does not make sense to deny your man when your man is on the weak side.
Boo and Berry were terrible on weak side close outs. Several times each stayed with his man instead of rotating to the player with the ball. Lead to multiple open shots. That's needs to be fixed.
Matt does have a role on the team. His defense was great, was moving his feet and did a great job hedging on the screens. He does need to box out more on defensive shots and not just use his height. Also, on offense he bring the ball down to his waist too much, that's wht guards tend to bother his shot. He is also capable of making a 12-15 foot jump,shot. Maybe on double screens away from the ball, have him be the second cutter and that would open that shot for him.
Couple observations:
1) Way, way too much being concluded from one game against a D2 team picked to end 12th out of 13 in their conference. Every year is the same thing. Memories of how salivating so many were around here when we scored more than 100 points against Chicago State a couple of seasons ago. We play fast now!
2) It will be the same after tonight, way too much being concluded from playing very mediocre opposition
Couple of personal instincts:
1) Audige was not exactly "hurt" last season. He got hurt, yes, but probably did not play "hurt" the whole season. It is not easy to get back from being hurt, things not going his way, and recover from that. Confidence is a weird thing in sports, and it might have affected the rest of his season. He was better the season before, but neither season he wore purple indicated he was a good at figuring out what shots to take or pass on. In fact, he was bad. He was better against Quincy. But, again, D2, mediocre opponent. Totally, without a doubt, a TBD situation. Like everyone else here, I am hopeful he has matured some. I was also of the opinion, being the best one on one (because off the ball, that's a different story) defender in the team or not, it was intriguing to have him as the 6th man. Could have helped him and the team a great deal. And, in the end, he probably would have played the same minutes
2) Verhoven is a body. One we desperately needed after our two best interior players left. I am sure he is tough and hard nosed. Again, desperately needed him. But if anyone thinks he is more than that, it feels delusional to me. His offensive skills are mediocre and, once we face real teams, it will stand out he's a bit undersized for his skill set. Again, we desperately needed him and 5 years of experience are very handy on the court
3) Big Matt has so much more potential than Verhoven. He moves better, he is stronger and he is taller. He is also way less experienced and lacking minutes on the court. Even if he committed two fouls, he looked to me more coordinated on his timing and less foul prone. Never, in a million years, did I think CC would start him over Verhoven. That's not how CC rolls. But man, I never imagined he would give 10 minutes to the obvious backup center, against freaking Quincy. A guy so obviously needing minutes. Unbelievably. Genius CC stuff again.
1) Way, way too much being concluded from one game against a D2 team picked to end 12th out of 13 in their conference. Every year is the same thing. Memories of how salivating so many were around here when we scored more than 100 points against Chicago State a couple of seasons ago. We play fast now!
2) It will be the same after tonight, way too much being concluded from playing very mediocre opposition
Couple of personal instincts:
1) Audige was not exactly "hurt" last season. He got hurt, yes, but probably did not play "hurt" the whole season. It is not easy to get back from being hurt, things not going his way, and recover from that. Confidence is a weird thing in sports, and it might have affected the rest of his season. He was better the season before, but neither season he wore purple indicated he was a good at figuring out what shots to take or pass on. In fact, he was bad. He was better against Quincy. But, again, D2, mediocre opponent. Totally, without a doubt, a TBD situation. Like everyone else here, I am hopeful he has matured some. I was also of the opinion, being the best one on one (because off the ball, that's a different story) defender in the team or not, it was intriguing to have him as the 6th man. Could have helped him and the team a great deal. And, in the end, he probably would have played the same minutes
2) Verhoven is a body. One we desperately needed after our two best interior players left. I am sure he is tough and hard nosed. Again, desperately needed him. But if anyone thinks he is more than that, it feels delusional to me. His offensive skills are mediocre and, once we face real teams, it will stand out he's a bit undersized for his skill set. Again, we desperately needed him and 5 years of experience are very handy on the court
3) Big Matt has so much more potential than Verhoven. He moves better, he is stronger and he is taller. He is also way less experienced and lacking minutes on the court. Even if he committed two fouls, he looked to me more coordinated on his timing and less foul prone. Never, in a million years, did I think CC would start him over Verhoven. That's not how CC rolls. But man, I never imagined he would give 10 minutes to the obvious backup center, against freaking Quincy. A guy so obviously needing minutes. Unbelievably. Genius CC stuff again.
And this relates to audidge how? Play the same spot? Sub one for the other?
Should be 2G 2F C or 3G F C
MN is a center. Audidge is a G.
I could possibly agree more with your personal instincts. They’re group instincts, I think.
Regarding Nicholson - I don't think he really has a jump shot outside 10 feet, but he does need to keep the ball high and try to dunk whenever he has possession near the basket. He'll get fouled a lot.
I would hope he can get position and post up to establish some semblance of an inside game in the half court. The little left-handed baby hook he made was nice to see. Whether our offense incorporates any of that is a different matter. My guess is that we'll see Matt setting screens 22 feet from the basket a lot more than we'll see him posting up. When we see him, that is.
Matt's free throw shooting looked improved from last season (small sample: 1-of-2). Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting hard for the guy. We'll agree to disagree about Audige. Go Cats!
So, a question for you Gato, who is NU’s best player? I have said Boo is our best returning player with Chase next. Then it drops quite a bit. I like Roper, but if he as a Soph is in your top 3, it doesn’t bode well for winning B1G games.
Back to my point of last year that I got crucified on. NU does not have enough talent to win many B1G games. IMO, definitely holds true this year. I realize I will get labeled a CCC apologist with that thought, but to me it is undeniable. I think our B1G wins will be in the 3-4 range and if we get more, I hope Bob does his archive search to make me look foolish! I sure hope I am wrong.
Well, who is responsible for talent acquisition? That's the biggest part of the coaching staff's job.
@Purple Pile Driver Saying NU does not have enough talent is not CCC apologism — it’s actually placing the blame for this program’s condition squarely at his feet.
