Amateur hour with Coach Fitz

[Purple Pile Driver]

They have taken a number of kids who did not end up qualifying. At least the ones that make it tend to graduate, I'll give you that.

I didn't hear anyone complaining about JUCO's when we won 27-0 last year. Minny certainly isn't the only team with lower admission standards than NU. The talent on the two teams is comparable with their JUCO's. They won because we couldn't run or pass block.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Fitz' name is mentioned often as a possible replacement to BK at ND. It has also been stated that, although a relatively "local" guy, he is not enamored with ND as they denied him a scholly during his playing days and that he will be a true blue Wildcat forever. Love him as a coach and his record speaks for itself.

You often hear this from opposing fans when you take a road trip. Seems like most every team's fan base takes shots at the HC. We have about a dozen here who come out like the locust after every crapfest.

 

[WoodersonCat]

And why is that?

Perhaps because there are more crapfests of late than we usually have?

Are you comfortable with the number of crapfests of late? Is everything OK in your eyes? Am I really less of an NU fan because I had other things to do last Saturday than watch us beat up on hapless/worthless Purdue in a season that has been generally pathetic and borderline unwatchable? Is that the new Apologists' Creed around here: if a realist takes a week off during a generally boring and uninspiring season, and we win, they are somehow now a locust who only shows up around here after crapfests? What kind of suspension of disbelief do you have to be capable of believing that to actually be true? By the way, where was EC yesterday? Is he now a non-fan too? GMAFB.

But keep bouncing that ridiculous notion around in your apologist echo chamber if you want... nobody listens to the apologists around here anymore anyway. They've blown whatever credibility they think they ever had. Their apologies and rationalization are old and tired (and in many cases have basically just morphed into ad hominem attacks anyway).

 

[xxjfgxx]

Keep them all. Nobody would ever coach here because nobody could ever succeed here. P5 academic powerhouses can never be successful in major revenue sports. I cannot think of a single coach that has ever been successful at NU and there are no smart schools that put up strong results.

Let's enjoy our nice little clean program and the family environment and pray no big time program sweeps in and poaches Fitz from us.

Either you're joking or that's the stupidest thing I've ever read.

 

[willycat]

That's a fair observation. Fitz will need to re-examine after this year, but things could sure be a whole lot worse. Lots of parity below the top dogs and I'd say Minnesota has a big edge with all the jucos and marginal qualifiers they appear to be suiting up.

Please stop with criticizing the players from JC's, etc. because they just beat NU in all aspects of the game. Maybe NU needs to look at some of the Jucos as well. They have done so before and they also need to open up the checkbook and bring in Power 5 coaches from the top on down.

 

[WoodersonCat]

It's hilarious that the same people here who can hear a political (so-called) dog whistle from a million miles away seem oblivious to what kind of dog whistle "JUCO" is.

 

[willycat]

And who do you suggest we hire who will want to deal with all the disadvantages this program has? We're still 4-4 in the BIG this year and have a good chance at a bowl bid. This was our biggest margin of defeat all year. Cutcliffe and Duke just lost 56-14 at Pitt a week after beating UNC. Kelly is 4-7 with all those 4 and 5 star recruits at Notre Dame. The pro genius Lovie Smith is 3-8 with a home loss to Purdue. Oh, maybe we could take a chance on some young college up-and-comer like Darrell Hazell was. How'd that turn out?

Don't ask me but that's a question that should be addressed to the AD. Stop with this all of the disadvantages thing. Stanford seems to be doing pretty well for years now and a loss to a program like Ill. St. is embarrassing period. say what you want about Illinois hiring Lovie but at least they made a change. I thinking that there are some good up and comers who could be better day coaching decisions then we have seen at NU for 8 plus years.

 

[Catreporter]

Don't ask me but that's a question that should be addressed to the AD. Stop with this all of the disadvantages thing. Stanford seems to be doing pretty well for years now and a loss to a program like Ill. St. is embarrassing period. say what you want about Illinois hiring Lovie but at least they made a change. I thinking that there are some good up and comers who could be better day coaching decisions then we have seen at NU for 8 plus years.

Let's see, in the last eight years, we've had two 10-win campaigns and a nine win season. Nothing worse than five wins. Looking over NU's history, I'd say that's pretty exceptional. Stanford has a lot of advantages over NU starting with location and tradition. And if you don't think NU has disadvantages compared to the rest of the state schools in the Big Ten, well I don't know what to tell you.

 

[mikewebb68]

You often hear this from opposing fans when you take a road trip. Seems like most every team's fan base takes shots at the HC. We have about a dozen here who come out like the locust after every crapfest.

I don't think it is even a dozen. They just hyperpost so much it seems that way. At any rate, the number of rational posters on this board outnumber them by a wide, wide margin. I actually think we have one of the more knowledgeable fan boards in the BIG; it is why opposing fans often stay and post long after they've played us (e.g. Tennessee).

 

[corbi296]

Let's see, in the last eight years, we've had two 10-win campaigns and a nine win season. Nothing worse than five wins. Looking over NU's history, I'd say that's pretty exceptional. Stanford has a lot of advantages over NU starting with location and tradition. And if you don't think NU has disadvantages compared to the rest of the state schools in the Big Ten, well I don't know what to tell you.

What tradition does Stanford have over NU?

 

[CatFanEd]

Keep them all. Nobody would ever coach here because nobody could ever succeed here. P5 academic powerhouses can never be successful in major revenue sports. I cannot think of a single coach that has ever been successful at NU and there are no smart schools that put up strong results.

Let's enjoy our nice little clean program and the family environment and pray no big time program sweeps in and poaches Fitz from us.

I think two Big Ten Titles and taking the Cats to Pasadena might be considered by some to have been successful at Northwestern. I can't imagine what bar you are setting to define success. Not a very well thought out or misinformed post at the very least.

 

[Catreporter]

What tradition does Stanford have over NU?

Are you kidding? They've been to the Rose Bowl multiple times while we've been twice in our history. Plunkett, Elway, Brodie etc, great QB tradition. Shall I go on....

 

[mikewebb68]

Don't ask me but that's a question that should be addressed to the AD. Stop with this all of the disadvantages thing. Stanford seems to be doing pretty well for years now and a loss to a program like Ill. St. is embarrassing period. say what you want about Illinois hiring Lovie but at least they made a change. I thinking that there are some good up and comers who could be better day coaching decisions then we have seen at NU for 8 plus years.

You're comparing Fitz to Beckman now? Really? I'll give you a chance to retract, otherwise this might even be worse than Stupor's 2-10 post....

 

[willycat]

You're comparing Fitz to Beckman now? Really? I'll give you a chance to retract, otherwise this might even be worse than Stupor's 2-10 post....

Actually I'm comparing Fitz and his inability to make changes to Illinois and there big time move to an former NFL coach. It may not work but at least they are trying to change things that are broken.

 

[mikewebb68]

Actually I'm comparing Fitz and his inability to make changes to Illinois and there big time move to an former NFL coach. It may not work but at least they are trying to change things that are broken.

But the reason they changed their head coach was because Beckman was their head coach. Are you saying that Fitz should be fired as well?

 

[stpaulcat]

Seriously. Going for 2 when down 9, then not kicking a FG on 4th at 1 at Minny 17 to at least make it a one score game, then after all that not going for it on 4th at 4 at their 44 yd or whatever, followed by punt to endzone and Minny TD drive! Is this his first season or what?

In a different game where we could more easily have regained the momentum on offense, I would say those decisions would have not been bad ones, but in THIS game, no way, and I don't see why Fitz didn't see that. We just needed points. If we had kept it closer early, we had a shot to win as we were playing better in the 4th quarter.

 

[IGNORE2]

S

Either you're joking or that's the stupidest thing I've ever read.

Sorry, forgot the /s. Really? You haven't figured out my position on this shit yet? You are as incompetent as cushing.

 

[IGNORE2]

Let's see, in the last eight years, we've had two 10-win campaigns and a nine win season. Nothing worse than five wins. Looking over NU's history, I'd say that's pretty exceptional. Stanford has a lot of advantages over NU starting with location and tradition. And if you don't think NU has disadvantages compared to the rest of the state schools in the Big Ten, well I don't know what to tell you.

We have tradition. Mediocracy, apathy, fondness for excuses. But we graduate everybody. Which is good because they won't be playing on Sundays...unless we mismanage them here.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

And why is that?

Perhaps because there are more crapfests of late than we usually have?

Are you comfortable with the number of crapfests of late? Is everything OK in your eyes? Am I really less of an NU fan because I had other things to do last Saturday than watch us beat up on hapless/worthless Purdue in a season that has been generally pathetic and borderline unwatchable? Is that the new Apologists' Creed around here: if a realist takes a week off during a generally boring and uninspiring season, and we win, they are somehow now a locust who only shows up around here after crapfests? What kind of suspension of disbelief do you have to be capable of believing that to actually be true? By the way, where was EC yesterday? Is he now a non-fan too? GMAFB.

But keep bouncing that ridiculous notion around in your apologist echo chamber if you want... nobody listens to the apologists around here anymore anyway. They've blown whatever credibility they think they ever had. Their apologies and rationalization are old and tired (and in many cases have basically just morphed into ad hominem attacks anyway).

This isn't about you, never has been. You seem to enjoy vindication, but what you routinely fail to see is that many of the so called "apologists" agree with the premise that changes to certain parts of the program are warranted.

Of course you elect to hyper post the same stuff on every single thread and then act surprised when people tire of it. I don't question anyone's fandom. In fact, some of the people I see every week have the most ridiculous posts you will ever want to see. So go ahead and start with your labeling of fans as "realists" and "apologist" because it always ends up there just moving on from the Debbie Dower versus Polyanna track of two year ago.

It's all about timing and when people are pissed off the last thing they need is an "I told you so" dude piling on and labeling them. An occasional positive thought on something who go a long way to help the credibility of the "Realist" assuming they ever had any.

 

[IGNORE2]

I think two Big Ten Titles and taking the Cats to Pasadena might be considered by some to have been successful at Northwestern. I can't imagine what bar you are setting to define success. Not a very well thought out or misinformed post at the very least.

Ok, never thought such a dripping post would need a /s. Walker, Barnett, Ara, prior Rose Bowls and such. NU can and could be an athletically relevant school in FB, BB. Duke, ND, Stanford have all proven that. Those that want to cry that we have too many disadvantages, no good coaching staff would want to come here, no good recruit would want to play in Chicago because it gets cold - I say BS. It is simply a matter of dedication by the powers that be that restrict our progress.

 

[WoodersonCat]

Let's see, in the last eight years, we've had two 10-win campaigns and a nine win season. Nothing worse than five wins. Looking over NU's history, I'd say that's pretty exceptional. Stanford has a lot of advantages over NU starting with location and tradition. And if you don't think NU has disadvantages compared to the rest of the state schools in the Big Ten, well I don't know what to tell you.

Always the caveat. Always. "Given our history..."

Loser-think pure and simple.

 

[Fitz51]

We have tradition. Mediocracy, apathy, fondness for excuses. But we graduate everybody. Which is good because they won't be playing on Sundays...unless we mismanage them here.

Burn!

 

[Hungry Jack]

I would take time to respond here but I am busy serving as King of Western Ave.

 

[FanatiCat]

I didn't hear anyone complaining about JUCO's when we won 27-0 last year. Minny certainly isn't the only team with lower admission standards than NU. The talent on the two teams is comparable with their JUCO's. They won because we couldn't run or pass block.

Minny wouldn't be able to run or pass block very well either without the 3 JUCO OL they signed for this year. They would seriously probably have 2-3 fewer wins without their JUCOs. My point is we don't have that quick fix available. Vast majority of JUCO players have academic or other red flags or just were not talented enough. To find one that meets all NU admission standards, and is good enough to start immediately in the B1G (the only reason to sign a JUCO) would be so rare as to not justify having someone spend all that time dedicated to recruiting the JUCO schools. If someone came into the radar that was not a non qualifier out of HS and truly made admissions cuts, it would be great.

We had a decent run with getting transfers from ND, USC and Stanford. Kind of like JUCO recruiting, except not.

 

[CatFanEd]

Ok, never thought such a dripping post would need a /s. Walker, Barnett, Ara, prior Rose Bowls and such. NU can and could be an athletically relevant school in FB, BB. Duke, ND, Stanford have all proven that. Those that want to cry that we have too many disadvantages, no good coaching staff would want to come here, no good recruit would want to play in Chicago because it gets cold - I say BS. It is simply a matter of dedication by the powers that be that restrict our progress.

OK. I thought you were just slipping up on your first post demonstrating a complete lack of knowledge of NU football history but now I understand where you are coming from and it happens to be leftfield. I don't think there are two better leaders at the university level I would rather have then the Shapiro/Phillips combination. Does having 250 million dollar athletic complex being built on the lakeshore mean anything to you? You are just making up negative BS.

 

[IGNORE2]

OK. I thought you were just slipping up on your first post demonstrating a complete lack of knowledge of NU football history but now I understand where you are coming from and it happens to be leftfield. I don't think there are two better leaders at the university level I would rather have then the Shapiro/Phillips combination. Does having 250 million dollar athletic complex being built on the lakeshore mean anything to you? You are just making up negative BS.

well today means that we have a mediocre football team. I suppose for you it must mean something for take early special

 

[willycat]

Minny wouldn't be able to run or pass block very well either without the 3 JUCO OL they signed for this year. They would seriously probably have 2-3 fewer wins without their JUCOs. My point is we don't have that quick fix available. Vast majority of JUCO players have academic or other red flags or just were not talented enough. To find one that meets all NU admission standards, and is good enough to start immediately in the B1G (the only reason to sign a JUCO) would be so rare as to not justify having someone spend all that time dedicated to recruiting the JUCO schools. If someone came into the radar that was not a non qualifier out of HS and truly made admissions cuts, it would be great.

We had a decent run with getting transfers from ND, USC and Stanford. Kind of like JUCO recruiting, except not.

It's been a long time since we have had any transfers that have made a difference and why not go after JC's. We have done it before and not all kids playing at that level have academic troubles. Some are there to get bigger and faster because they weren't quite ready coming out of H.S.. I doubt that some on NU's staff could spare a few days and aren't busy 365 days a year.

 

[LACatFan]

P5 academic powerhouses can never be successful in major revenue sports. I cannot think of a single coach that has ever been successful at NU and there are no smart schools that put up strong results.

Say what now? Since 2011, Stanford has appeared in the Orange, Fiesta, and 3 x times in the Rose Bowl. But don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.

 

[IGNORE2]

Say what now? Since 2011, Stanford has appeared in the Orange, Fiesta, and 3 x times in the Rose Bowl. But don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.

Again, do I really need the /s? How about ND and several national championships. How about Duke bball and the same? I was mocking the apologists that accept our mediocracy because it's the best we can hope for due to our academic constraints.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Again, do I really need the /s? How about ND and several national championships. How about Duke bball and the same? I was mocking the apologists that accept our mediocracy because it's the best we can hope for due to our academic constraints.

The difference being that we actually HAVE academic restraints. ND, Duke, and even Stanford mostly just pay lip service.

 

[WoodersonCat]

The difference being that we actually HAVE academic restraints. ND, Duke, and even Stanford mostly just pay lip service.

Then we should lower them.

This idea thst folks cling to here that winning at football doesn't improve a school's academic reputation has been disproven so many times it's not even worth arguing. Colleges have known that football success leads to more applications, more selectivity, more money and greater academic reputation since the earliest days of college football. This has been true since University of Chicsgo was in the Big Ten and Amos Alonzo Stagg was doing it. And it's happened literally everywhere. Recent relevant examples: Flutie: 30% increase in applications. John Thompson/Patrick Ewing titles: 45% increase. Northwestern 95: 21% increase. And I don't know the University of Miami numbers back in the Jimmy Johnson days but I guarantee they didn't go down...and look at how hard it is to get into Wisconsin theses days...

This is simply fact.

Frankly, the only rational position is that we are fools for not lowering our standards since it would increase both our football success and academic selectivity and profile. And it would actually increase the value of everybody's precious degrees...

We ought to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time and ought to be able to play football and graduate these kids at the same time and without having to stick our noses in the air. It sure doesn't hurt Duke or Georgetown or Stanford or even Boston College in terms of academic profile.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Then we should lower them.

This idea thst folks cling to here that winning at football doesn't improve a school's academic reputation has been disproven so many times it's not even worth arguing. Colleges have known that football success leads to more applications, more selectivity, more money and greater academic reputation since the earliest days of college football. This has been true since University of Chicsgo was in the Big Ten and Amos Alonzo Stagg was doing it. And it's happened literally everywhere. Recent relevant examples: Flutie: 30% increase in applications. John Thompson/Patrick Ewing titles: 45% increase. Northwestern 95: 21% increase. And I don't know the University of Miami numbers back in the Jimmy Johnson days but I guarantee they didn't go down...

This is simply fact.

Frankly, the only rational position is that we are fools for not lowering our standards since it would increase both our football success and academic selectivity and profile. And it would actually increase the value of everybody's precious degrees...

We ought to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time and ought to be able to play football and graduate these kids at the same time and without having to stick our noses in the air. It sure doesn't hurt Duke or Georgetown or Stanford or even Boston College in terms of academic profile.

I don't disagree. I think Fitz's academic success with his team has earned him more leeway with admissions, but wouldn't bank on it. Ever.

 

[WoodersonCat]

I don't disagree. I think Fitz's academic success with his team has earned him more leeway with admissions, but wouldn't bank on it. Ever.

The question is: why? And the answer is the same mode of thinking that still pollutes the minds of the apologists on this board...this notion that NU can't compete consistently because we have to have higher standards for athletes than everybody else. This is (1) a crutch and (2) simply not true. This mindset needs to be changed. There is simply no downside whatsoever to it.

 

[FanatiCat]

It's been a long time since we have had any transfers that have made a difference and why not go after JC's. We have done it before and not all kids playing at that level have academic troubles. Some are there to get bigger and faster because they weren't quite ready coming out of H.S.. I doubt that some on NU's staff could spare a few days and aren't busy 365 days a year.

When have we ever done it before (taken a JUCO)? I think there was a backup QB in the Barnett days. Actually upon Googling, it was Tim Hughes who I believe ended up starting the 1997 season. That is the only one I can remember.

I would rather see us go after grad transfers if we are trying to fill an immediate gap. JUCOs would not be perceived well unless they were a rare exception. NU would seem to be an appealing place for a grad transfer - a good chance to start for a B1G team and get an NU master's (or at least a year of it) for free.

 

[DaCat]

In the 80s we got a JUCO player who was a WR and special teams player. Some guy named Steve Tasker. Turned out to be halfway decent...

 

[stpaulcat]

Then we should lower them.

This idea thst folks cling to here that winning at football doesn't improve a school's academic reputation has been disproven so many times it's not even worth arguing. Colleges have known that football success leads to more applications, more selectivity, more money and greater academic reputation since the earliest days of college football. This has been true since University of Chicsgo was in the Big Ten and Amos Alonzo Stagg was doing it. And it's happened literally everywhere. Recent relevant examples: Flutie: 30% increase in applications. John Thompson/Patrick Ewing titles: 45% increase. Northwestern 95: 21% increase. And I don't know the University of Miami numbers back in the Jimmy Johnson days but I guarantee they didn't go down...and look at how hard it is to get into Wisconsin theses days...

This is simply fact.

Frankly, the only rational position is that we are fools for not lowering our standards since it would increase both our football success and academic selectivity and profile. And it would actually increase the value of everybody's precious degrees...

We ought to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time and ought to be able to play football and graduate these kids at the same time and without having to stick our noses in the air. It sure doesn't hurt Duke or Georgetown or Stanford or even Boston College in terms of academic profile.

What you are missing here is that we actually do lower standards for a number of players each year. But don't try to get anyone to talk about it. Which kind of makes this discussion pointless. We'll never do it across the board, nor should we, and I bet the other top academic schools don't ether, except for maybe the southern schools, where is too much alumni pressure not to.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

What you are missing here is that we actually do lower standards for a number of players each year. But don't try to get anyone to talk about it. Which kind of makes this discussion pointless. We'll never do it across the board, nor should we, and I bet the other top academic schools don't ether, except for maybe the southern schools, where is too much alumni pressure not to.

Yes, the standards are lowered a lot. The big myth is that those that don't get admitted would fail or even struggle. There are 1000's turned down by admission that would graduate and succeed. My daughter wasn't accepted and was fourth in her class. Went to that school down south and got straight A's. With the support system for the players they have proven as a group to succeed. I can't remember a recent academic causality, so it doesn't feel like we are pushing the envelope with admissions.

If we think the kid can succeed we should take him. Isn't that a selling point for the recruit? The NU sheepskin? No this isn't forcing a kid into basket weaving class and kicking him to the curb after eligibility, it's about getting the degree that should be a tremendous asset for the young man that he had zero chance of obtaining without football because would not have got admitted. Sounds like a good deal for both sides!

 

[WoodersonCat]

What you are missing here is that we actually do lower standards for a number of players each year. But don't try to get anyone to talk about it. Which kind of makes this discussion pointless. We'll never do it across the board, nor should we, and I bet the other top academic schools don't ether, except for maybe the southern schools, where is too much alumni pressure not to.

I'm not missing that at all. How could you possibly think I don't know that? Seriously, you think I missed that?

Lower them further. That's what I'm saying. The evidence proves that it is win win for athletics and academics. Only at NU have we somehow conned ourselves into believing this blatant, proven-wrong falsehood that lowering academics to better athletic will harm our academic reputation.

The hilarious part is that a good chunk of NU's current academic admissions selectivity and profile came precisely because of athletic success in '95, yet we still cling to this notion that we can't lower standards because it will dilute the value of everybody's precious degrees... Fact: it doesn't. The value of that degree goes up with every Big Ten title and would go up with a few Sweet Sixteen appearances.

Honestly, we have to be the dumbest "smart school" in America when it comes to this. This is the lasting stain of Bob Strotz. It needs to go.

 

[WoodersonCat]

... so it doesn't feel like we are pushing the envelope with admissions.
!

Precisely. And if we're half the academic and research institution we claim we are, let's put all that brainpower to work and come up with new ways to do what schools are supposed to do - teach - and help lesser students even better than we do now. Otherwise, all the talk about academic missions and how great we are is all just a bunch of BS. Anybody can teach the smart kids. Hell, they teach themselves. It's upping the less smart kids' academic games that is the true mark of a teacher.

 

[RevCat]

Difference is Lovie is in his 1st year, Kelly had ND playing for the NC and Cutcliffe had Duke in the ACC Championship game (granted, no gimme after the Nits have taken hits on their O-line recently).

Fitz is in his 11th season (6th w/ a division break-down) and the 'Cats haven't won its division, much less win a B1G title like his 2 predecessors.

Not saying that there should be a change at top, but can't be doing the same things over and over again.

For all the grief that Franklin gets, he, at least made the changes to his co-ordinators (and position groups) when they weren't getting the job done.

If PSU finishes out the season w/ W's (granted, no gimme after the Nits have taken hits on their O-line) and dOSU beats UM, then Franklin will get to the B1G championship game before Fitz despite being a relative newcomer and coaching in the tougher division.

Maybe one day, Franklin will beat Fitz.