Because you're dying to read them.... my thoughts on the Cats
- Thread starter TheC
- Start date
In all honesty, i think all of us recognize but fail to give due credit to CCC for changing the culture of MBB@NU. If i can be so bold as to hypothesize that maybe he’s done what Barnett did in football. I mean realistically, a losing culture with no clear path to that “winning edge” intangible. One can argue that it only takes one (or a small handful) of special players to turn a program. At the same time, it takes one bad egg to spoil that potential for everyone. I know everyone gets the bad facilities, disappointing injuries, et al. But what about the locker room culture and all that happens behind the scenes that coaches can only partially influence.
I really marvel at what looks like amazing team chemistry this year. And i look at the one major change which is a transfer out. Hard to imagine, and not hard to imagine how significant an impact this can have on that locker room culture. Think about the impact certain seniors have had in both football and BB. This year its all about nance in the BB locker room (and all the high character guys on the team.
I hope what i feel comes to bear and these players come through and execute on an amazing opportunity in front of them…. And of course, incense is burning to keep the curse of the indian burial ground at bay
So upon reflection, i continue to be impressed with the coaching staff and hope they remain patient and continue to develop these players to their full potential.
Last night was my first chance to see this year’s edition of the Cats. I liked what I saw, but don’t want to get too far over the skis yet as FDU was clearly a really bad team.
Nance’s apparent maturity was very impressive, and probably the thing that jumped out at me along with collective defensive quickness.
My concerns before I jump on a bandwagon are how Nance will hold up against B1G teams that have a strong interior presence, how Buie will do, both with regards to minimizing turnovers and creating opportunities against defenses that can better control the perimeter, and whether the team collectively will be able to rebound well in a very competitive B1G.
The upcoming tournament will tell us a lot.
I will hold back on commenting on team chemistry until they have overcome some adversity, which I am sure the rest of the season will bring.
Williams is a really good player. He has an off night last night but he’s going to have a lot of impactful games for us.
I'd say given the players on the roster, Collins cost us 3 games last year, mainly on lineups and untimely substitutions.
If he were to be a master at everything (development, strategy, in-game moves, plays ,etc) we maybe win another 3, though thats without looking for the games we could have won and making assumptions about improving some players.
I thought you were talking about "whats he worth?" salary-wise, to which I have no answer.
This is where it gets really hard for me to buy in. For one, is there a coach out there that does all this? For two, winning 3 games more this year would imply we’d win 12 games with this mythical coach. That would be the most we’ve EVER won by 2 games. This team does not have the talent to win 12 games; no team we have ever fielded had / has that talent. It’s more talent we need to change this program; it’s not the lineup usage by the coach.
I agree we need more talent. But at the same time, the talent on this team is as good as its ever been. The challenge is that we compete in one of the toughest leagues in the country which means all of our weaknesses as a team (chemistry, confidence, depth) get exposed in spades day in and day out - especially compared to other mid-major programs like the creightons and xaviers of the world.
If one truly thinks about it, the pool of talent we recruit from is very shallow. If you take into consideration that those players have the choice of stepping into well established programs with winning cultures versus stepping into who knows what and building a winning culture, very few will pick the latter.
CCC started with Law being one of those gems, and around him he recruited reasonably well. But that talent alone wasn’t enough to get over the hump. Throw in a few bad apples and the culture/depth goes sideways. We were close on Christie who could have been a game changer, but who can blame him going to state. We were close on starling. We’ll continue to be close on a number of high level recruits - thats where we need to be. But we desperately need to avoid the mistakes that create dissension and distraction on the team.
Have any of you tried to hire for a startup (first 10 people). Lots of people with experience, but very few really have the dogged determination to work through the hardships to become successful. It is f’ing hard work. And its much easier to see that the grass is greener in a situation where culture and winners are already established.
I think that CCC is gaining on it, and very anxious to see how CCC can develop the confidence of his players this season. They all want it - BAD. You can see it in their sideline demeanor more this year than ever before. Let Nance lead, and watch the young pups mature. This season could be a really fun season to watch unfold. And it very well could lead to a strong upward trend with the addition of Rowan - who looks like a leader and winner. I think Berry and the frosh grow up to become vocal leaders and the culture turns. Maybe the team picks up a surprise frontline recruit in the spring to round out the incoming class.
Been a fan since the mid 80s with insights into those late foster years. Hoping these next few years are different than the historical oscillations for success and momentum.
well, considering how those that have transferred fared elsewhere and how poorly the majority of highly rated recruits have performed here, I think eye for talent can be challenged.
At the end, it’s the whole package that gets judged. Coaches are paid handsomely to identify, recruit, develop and coach the players leading to the final results. The final results have been poor.
We did make a dance but also saw the program embroiled in controversy re vassar that clearly demonstrated some poor choices.
At this point, CCC needs to win, IMHO. Or let’s move on again.
Do you remember Vinnie “the microwave” Johnson on those Pistons championship teams? Audige would be great in the instant offense role. If he’s hot, leave him in there, if not back to the bench.
I think Matt Painter down at Purdue provides an interesting comparison.
He seems to be above average at all those aspects of running a successful basketball program.
He worked his way up through the coaching ranks, was an assistant at Southern Illinois for 4-5 years, got the head coaching job for one season, went 25-5 (17-1) and his alma mater hired him to replace Gene Keady in 2005.
With Collins, I think he has had reasonable success recruiting, but doesn't add much in terms of player development. We aren't getting top tier players, but we are getting pretty good players. I don't see a lot of growth beyond what any freshman might do on his own, just playing and maturing. I'm not claiming to be an expert, just observing.
Collins gets credit for bringing in players who should have won, in my opinion, 9 games in the Big Ten last year. Our final record (6 wins) is a reflection of missed opportunities.
Obviously if Collins brings in better players, we should expect better records. But if he did a better job developing and deploying the players we already have, we'd also see better records.
One mistake that other coaches would not have made last year was playing Robbie Beran and Anthony Gaines so much. They both played more minutes than Ryan Young. Chase Audige played 50% more minutes than Young. None of that makes any sense. The more you play your lesser players, the worse you do. I'd guesstimate a coach like Matt Painter or Tom Izzo would have gotten 11 wins out of our team last year.
This year our players are one year older and have made some progress, the incoming freshmen are at least as good as the guys we lost, the league is not as good and we are in position to see success.
Ryan Greer - huge development. Ryan Young - lots of development. Pete Nance - very good development. Buie - good development in learning to control himself. Berry - seems like a good-sized jump from FY to soph. We’ll see about Audige. Beran - my sense is he’s being asked to play a much more athletic style of play and is still learning. Lots of examples with prior recruits. Hard to say in my view that Collins and staff don’t add much in developing their players.
I agree with this.
Its a lot to ask a HS player that is at the top of the charts in athleticsm in HS to become a major contributor in one of the most physical college conferences. Few freshman are impact players in the BIG. On top of that, teams have an easier time defending NU given our relative talent and depth and can key on any players. Development and confidence doesn’t necessarily translate as rapidly in a program like NU. With Pete and Ryan playing strong and demanding defensive attention, we may see others on this team emerge with greater confidence. So long as the team plays with a “team ball” mentality, this could mark a turning point in the development of the team, players and culture.
So long as he stays healthy, we will see Beran’s game emerge. The rising tide will help all players bring their strengths to the table.
1. Identify talent
2. Recruit talent
3. Develop talent
4. Coach talent
all great and necessary qualities. Only measuring stick - win games. Based on the results, CCC is not doing his job as well as his peers.
If your response relates to admissions and a permanently flawed program as a result, then don’t put lipstick on that pig by wasting millions of $$$ on the program. Run a cellar program with a cellar budget. Spend the money on FB assistant coaches or other bad non-revenue programs that have kids that work just as hard.
If you believe the program can excel, then grade the compensated caretakers accordingly and let go of them if they do not produce the only important result - wins.
In a vacuum those words might ring true. But that’s a statement based on 4 games against inferior competition.
What has all that development given us? 3 and 6 wins over two seasons.
In the end, I hope your statement rings true by the end of the season. Fingers crossed as even if I do not think CC develops players well, I don’t think he sucks at it either.
It seems like you provide two choices - give up, or hold our coach to a standard higher than we have ever met in 80 years. I am certainly not going to give up, and I am looking for marked improvement from our past. But, I’ve stated many times, and the hugely successful football team’s results now bear it out, that we have to realize that the likelihood that we can achieve consistent sustained success in either program would be a miracle. I am personally not ready to ship Collins out as yet, as I believe there are signs we can get closer to that level (though likely not fully achieve the miracle). Of course, he has shown us success already and, fingers crossed, we have a darn good chance at it again this year. That’s not poor results for NU. It may be for Duke and many others, but it’s not for NU. Whether we agree to live in that reality for a while longer and see if we improve, or just want to keep chasing the miracle coach when ours shows some expectedly inconsistent results, seems to be our main difference of opinion.
The issue of development and wins are not perfectly correlated. Greer, for example and for all his great qualities, is certainly not the ideal recruit we all wish we could attract. He’ll never give us the number of wins we’d all want. The same can be said for most other recruits to a degree. My point is just that he has developed considerably, and that has been over his career, not just this year.
Collins has been the coach for 8 full season. We have two seasons where our conference winning percentage was above 0.35.
Carmody had the team for 13 seasons. In 8 of those we had a Big Ten winning percentage of 0.35 or higher.
Carmody had 9 of 13 seasons with an overall winning percentage of 0.48 or higher.
Collins has had 2 of 8.
The bar set by Carmody was not that high, but Collins has not raised it, despite the recruiting boost we have gotten from improved facilities.
Doesn't mean we won't do well this year, but it does mean that Collins (so far) has not been any better than Carmody.
Umm…I think you forgot something here. 🤷♂️
Sorry, a 24 win season, first NCAA bid ever and a tournament victory, plus the Cats the only Big Ten semifinal appearance ever, trumps anything Carmody did, much as I respect how he cleaned up the mess left by O'Neil.
Move
Move on? To what at this point. Tell me what super stud young coach you see ready to take on the restrictions at NU.
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