Whether you thought the bowl win was meaningful or not, how much nicer is it reading off-season articles (from outside Chicago) about the team. More than half of them end with "Northwestern defeated Pittsburgh in the Pinstripe Bowl".
Bowl Win
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This was a big win given the team we beat and its victories over PSU and the national champion. Many of us thought that we should have had a better year than we did. Terribly frustrating losses to Illinois State and WMU really hurt us - a 9 win season after a 10 win campaign was within our reach and would have been nice. The bowl win legitimized not only our expectations, but more importantly, the real quality of the team. It is something to build on for next year and for recruiting the class of 2018. Playing in NYC also helped with publicity. I was in the city for the game, and although the press largely ignored the Pinstripe Bowl leading up to it, the papers were filled with praise for NU and JJTBC afterward. The national media has picked up on that and publications are already hyping our potential to win the West next year. We do not win bowl games every year - doing so this year was big. Hard to see the doubters' reasoning.
A bowl win was obviously better than a bowl loss - and a win against Pitt is no joke - but an 8 or more win season with a loss in a higher profile bowl is more beneficial IMO. I haven't heard or read any recruits say, that Pinnstripe bowl win really convinced me that NU was the place for me.
Could not possibly disagree more. Nobody remembers the 'profile' of the bowl after the Rose or CFP games. Hell, we barely could figure out the pecking order THIS season.
I sure don't remember reading about the impact on recruits the bowl losses we had in the Outback (2x), Alamo (2x), Citrus, etc. convinced them NU was right for them. In fact, nobody remembers in 2008 and 2009, we took hugely favored programs into overtime before losing. Only the loss or win is remembered and cared about.
And BTW, the Pinstripe win was five weeks before signing day. How many recruits chose NU after that that?
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It's not that they are impressed with the profile of the bowl, it's that they are impressed by the results for the season - winning 8 or 9 games vs 6 wins. And you are right - most recruits commit either during the actual season or in the summer after the bowl season is a distant memory. The week to week results are much more impactful in my opinion, at games they may actually be attending. Winning a bowl is obviously better than losing, but it doesn't make a disappointing season successful or a successful season unsuccessful.
Yeah. Still disagree. I think to many, the 10 win season in 2015 ended with a resounding thud, getting pantsed on a national stage in the Outback Bowl in which we were thoroughly outclassed.
Conversely, a 6-6 season with only one two wins over bowl teams, has resulted in a ton of positive talk and upbeat projections rarely seen for NU even after more successful W/L seasons.
You are remembered most based on your last game I think. I think the fact that the outlook for NU seems more positive for 2017, after 6-6 season with a bowl win, is higher than it was going into 2016, with a 10-2 season and a bowl shellacking.
Right now I don't know how say, Athlon, will project next season. But after winning 10 games in 2015 and losing in a 'higher profile bowl', the early forecasts for NU for '16 definitely seemed less favorable than they do for next year, after a 6-6 season with an FCS loss, but a bowl win.
Conversely, a 6-6 season with only one two wins over bowl teams, has resulted in a ton of positive talk and upbeat projections rarely seen for NU even after more successful W/L seasons.
You are remembered most based on your last game I think. I think the fact that the outlook for NU seems more positive for 2017, after 6-6 season with a bowl win, is higher than it was going into 2016, with a 10-2 season and a bowl shellacking.
Right now I don't know how say, Athlon, will project next season. But after winning 10 games in 2015 and losing in a 'higher profile bowl', the early forecasts for NU for '16 definitely seemed less favorable than they do for next year, after a 6-6 season with an FCS loss, but a bowl win.
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Yeah I've been through this with him before... it's hopeless, just let him keep pontificating on it whenever the topic comes up and roll your eyes. He conveniently overlooks the fact that those who wanted to play an "easier" bowl were scared poop less about the prospect of matching up against a ranked Pitt team who had beaten Clemson and PSU, and preferred to get a crappier opponent. Yet now he is claiming the win over the top 25 Pitt team as a feather in the cap supporting the "play an easy bowl just to win" camp. Among other interesting logical leaps. Whatever, to each their own.....
Well, I'm basing my opinions on what I'm actually seeing and have seen. A 10 win season with a bowl loss in a Jan 1 bowl has garnered less positive press momentum and optimistic team outlook for the next season than a 6-6 season with a bowl win in a 'lesser bowl'. Those things are pretty obvious, I believe.
Now you want to say that has only happened because Pitt was a ranked team, where I believe the quality of the opponent or the prestige of the game are easily forgotten and relatively meaningless at this point in NU's development.
I believe the win in the Gator Bowl demonstrates that. Few would argue we received a tremendous perception bump after beating Mississippi State in the Gator Bowl. Right? But Mississippi State wasn't even in the AP poll prior to that game, not having a single vote for the Top 25 at the end of the regular season. They were only 4-4 in conference, and beat only Auburn, Arkansas, Tennessee and Kentucky in conference, all of whom had losing records that season. Furthermore, their non con wins were over Jacksonville State, Troy, Middle Tennessee and South Alabama. Hardly P5 powers. In fact, Miss St's only wins against teams with winning records that year were against FCS Jackson State and Miss Tenn. Finally, they were 1-4 their last five regular season games that year, literally limping into the bowl game.
All told, Mississippi State was a pretty crappy bowl opponent. Yet nobody remembers or talks about that anymore, only that we won that bowl game. Just as nobody talks about how heavily favored Tennessee (2x), Missouri and Auburn were over us, in what were then higher prestige bowls, or how close two of those games were, only that we lost.
Now you want to say that has only happened because Pitt was a ranked team, where I believe the quality of the opponent or the prestige of the game are easily forgotten and relatively meaningless at this point in NU's development.
I believe the win in the Gator Bowl demonstrates that. Few would argue we received a tremendous perception bump after beating Mississippi State in the Gator Bowl. Right? But Mississippi State wasn't even in the AP poll prior to that game, not having a single vote for the Top 25 at the end of the regular season. They were only 4-4 in conference, and beat only Auburn, Arkansas, Tennessee and Kentucky in conference, all of whom had losing records that season. Furthermore, their non con wins were over Jacksonville State, Troy, Middle Tennessee and South Alabama. Hardly P5 powers. In fact, Miss St's only wins against teams with winning records that year were against FCS Jackson State and Miss Tenn. Finally, they were 1-4 their last five regular season games that year, literally limping into the bowl game.
All told, Mississippi State was a pretty crappy bowl opponent. Yet nobody remembers or talks about that anymore, only that we won that bowl game. Just as nobody talks about how heavily favored Tennessee (2x), Missouri and Auburn were over us, in what were then higher prestige bowls, or how close two of those games were, only that we lost.
Where is all this obvious positive press you are referring to? I'm not seeing it in Chicago, but I may be out of touch. I know J Lehman from BTN picked NU in the west next year, but he did that before the bowl game and based on the returning talent. Going into last year a number of BTN analysts were bullish on NU to challenge iowa and Wisconsin as well. Any positive press is based more on having a 2 year starter at QB entering his 3rd year, an all big ten caliber RB and an top tier in the big ten defense returning mostly in tact.
Not sure either who you are saying 'talks about' the fact that we won the gator bowl and lost these others. Who talks, the media, recruits, message board nimrods? They only reason the gator bowl win is mildly memorable is because of the drought. If Minnesota or Purdue had beaten MSU no one would think twice about it. as NU continues to win bowl games these bottom tier bowl game wins will be less and less meaningful.
Not sure either who you are saying 'talks about' the fact that we won the gator bowl and lost these others. Who talks, the media, recruits, message board nimrods? They only reason the gator bowl win is mildly memorable is because of the drought. If Minnesota or Purdue had beaten MSU no one would think twice about it. as NU continues to win bowl games these bottom tier bowl game wins will be less and less meaningful.
I think I disagree with every single paragraph of this. And I also disagree with a couple of your "few would argue" or similar statements.
- I think you're imagining a perception bump from this offseason relative to last
- again, if we had beaten e.g. BC no one would have cared
- Miss St was a decent team. Not a great team but 8-4 in the SEC is no joke. And the "perception bump" wasn't really that so much as that we finally got the monkey off our backs.
- the Missouri and Auburn losses were quite exciting, and I think the Auburn one in particular helped our perception. Tennessee is a different story, but then again we shouldn't lose that game 45-6.
I believe you're conflating the ex post impact of winning / losing with the ex ante perception of good / bad / in between opponent. And keep in mind there are gradations of all these things. No one is saying we should play Bama every year, just that playing good teams that are on our level or slightly favored vs us (which is what usually happens in the B1G) is better than beating patsies where we are 10 pt favorites.
But in any event, agree to disagree........ Happy Friday!
The three biggest "perception bump" seasons since I have been following NU football were 1995, 1996 and 2000 which all were great regular seasons with bowl losses. It seems like you are telling me NU would have been better off losing to Michigan and Minnesota in 2000 but winning the motor city bowl against Toledo,
I think there may be some difference of perception here based on distance from Evanston. Outside of the B1G footprint few follow our in season record. Bowl games are a national event and the whole country knows when we head to a bowl game. Do well there and the lasting impression is much more expansive.
There is no greater argument than I can make about the perception of a bowl win or loss than your own recollection, or lack thereof, of the opponent we played in the Gator Bowl. I told you their relevant pedigree of Mississippi State. And it was not 8-4 in the SEC. It was 4-4 with 4 wins against dismal opponents. There was ONE win against a FCS team with a winning record. If their record was at all impressive, being in the SEC, they would have gardnered at least a single Top 25 AP vote. But they didn't get one, and they weren't anywhere near the Top 40 in the AP poll.
Ricko, you're also making my point for me in calling Miss St. a decent team........based on their Ws and Ls. As I'm arguing about the quality of the opponents being largely forgotten when talking about a bowl W or L, and you are stressing its importance, you are calling Miss St. a 'decent team' based completely on their Ws and ignoring the quality of their opponents that season.
Few, if anyone outside the NU family, remembers the bowl pecking order that year or the relative 'prestige' of the bowl. Obviously, the recollection of the quality of the opponent isn't that clear.
But you do remember the W. That there was a W. That is what sticks, and can't be faded or diminished.
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I'm not sure this is all about winning or losing the bowl game.
Winning 10 games was great but it was a painful season for me where we got killed when we lost. I felt worse about the losses than I felt good about the wins. I know, I know, I don't appreciate good defensive football. The bowl game was just embarrassing.
Last season we totally bombed losing to ISU but otherwise our loses were competitive and the team improved as the season went on. The bowl game was the team's best and left me proud.
Not sure how that translated to recruiting but we may have an idea in about 10 months.
Winning 10 games was great but it was a painful season for me where we got killed when we lost. I felt worse about the losses than I felt good about the wins. I know, I know, I don't appreciate good defensive football. The bowl game was just embarrassing.
Last season we totally bombed losing to ISU but otherwise our loses were competitive and the team improved as the season went on. The bowl game was the team's best and left me proud.
Not sure how that translated to recruiting but we may have an idea in about 10 months.
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The losses to ISU and WMU were at the very beginning of the season. Everyone considers those aberrations and a very slow start. Recruits don't care about them. They care about us beating MSU soundly and playing in the Shoe very competitively with OSU. And they definitely remember us beating Pitt , especially because not many thought we would. The victory in the Pinstripe Bowl wipes out our record and losses . It was big time special .Recruits picture themselves on Yankee field raising that trophy on National television with their coaches , family , and friends watching .
