Up 8 with 4 minutes to go and we decide to stop running the offense and try to kill the clock????
This one’s on the Coach. Should have had this one.
This one’s on the Coach. Should have had this one.
CCC cost us this one
- Thread starter Catfanincolo
- Start date
100%. I like this team and actually think Collins has had one of his better years (I know that sounds ridiculous)...but this was awful coaching down the stretch. Such a soft and scared approach.
It’s the most frustrating part of the Collins regime. He seems not to learn from it, as it happens again and again. Combine that with a young team that freezes up anyway and that doesn’t have confidence.
Agree completely.,I generally like what Collins has done this year. But he should have showed more confidence in his team and let them keep playing.
Ridiculous. It’s not like we were even asking to stay composed in a close game. It was just holding on to a comfortable lead.
I guess we could not do it against Hartford. So why not Purdue.
Where was the time out if the players were not continuing to run the offense? Saving it for what?
I guess we could not do it against Hartford. So why not Purdue.
Where was the time out if the players were not continuing to run the offense? Saving it for what?
Collins has said he wants the players to be really pissed off about losing. Because the tournament team lost tough games and got pissed.
Mission accomplished. We should start winning now. Cause I don’t think they can get more pissed off.
Disheartening. What is going on within the team? At what point do the players lose confidence in the coach and start doubting his decisions? We can’t be far from that
Mission accomplished. We should start winning now. Cause I don’t think they can get more pissed off.
Disheartening. What is going on within the team? At what point do the players lose confidence in the coach and start doubting his decisions? We can’t be far from that
i get the argument about stall ball, but beran got 2 wide open looks. on the other end PU needed shots and they made them.
likewise the cats end up running offense from 12 seconds left on the clock at many points in the game - not just the end.
what was more disappointing was the lack of defense - gave up 10-12 points in a row without a stop. what was the lead 58-49? and the team definitely suffers from the "clutch gene
Momentum is so important. And we voluntarily gave momentum away when we went to the stall.
We are there. 3-13 in games decided by five points or less last two seasons. Those aren’t games decided by admissions, injuries or transfers. Those are competitive games where NU was in it down to the end. That’s 16 opportunities to win — and 13 failures.
When you are up 8 with 4 minutes to go and you are in the bonus YOU DON'T NEED TO BE JACKING UP LAST SECOND 3'S which is all we did in the last 4 minutes. So they didnt go in - my point is we didnt need to be taking those in the first place.
Those were not terrible looks for Beran. But he's a true freshman. At the end of the shot clock. When NU doesn't need three points. Surely that can't be the best option.
this is why someone posted "would you be mad if collins left" and others argued the program is in bad shape. I think the program is in a really good position to be very good (at least very good for NU standards). I can see how some feel this is awful and bad and poor coaching. i think this is building a foundation for future success
I thought this summed it up really well. Tough night for the Cats.
100% correct this is coaching. Fitzgerald had same problem for years until he finally realized when you have a makeable 3rd down that will guarantee the win with 2 minutes to go, being aggressive and taking matters into your own hands is a helluva lot better option then hoping the opponent doesn't come through at your expense.
I'm not trying to make excuse for Collins. It was a horrible ending. In fact I believe my argument puts it in a worse light.
I don't believe they were purposely trying to stall. I don't know what Buie was thinking, but I thought he was waiting for someone to move off the ball, and everyone just stood there. Also, after a couple of those Buie possessions, Collins wanted the ball out of Buie's hands.
I was sitting in the upper left corner of the TV view. I also thought Beran was the go-to target which I don't agree with either. He's third on my list at best.
Whether they stalled or were very poorly prepared, this one is on Collins.
I don't believe they were purposely trying to stall. I don't know what Buie was thinking, but I thought he was waiting for someone to move off the ball, and everyone just stood there. Also, after a couple of those Buie possessions, Collins wanted the ball out of Buie's hands.
I was sitting in the upper left corner of the TV view. I also thought Beran was the go-to target which I don't agree with either. He's third on my list at best.
Whether they stalled or were very poorly prepared, this one is on Collins.
On the other hand, the out of bounds play with three seconds left that resulted in Spencer shooting an uncontested three was brilliant coaching.
on the flip side - when purdue made their run they had i think two dribble weave or dribble hand off and drives/jumpers/floaters. not great plays by any means. the purdue guys made plays. they played aggresive man to man
also the shot fake step back 3 over kopp. not a great play but it went in so its a hell of a shot. the shots went in so "painter is a good coach" but he did nothing brilliant. Purdue nutted up and made plays
to be fair - the final play was great - and stefanovic or however its spelled hit a ballasy shot
also the shot fake step back 3 over kopp. not a great play but it went in so its a hell of a shot. the shots went in so "painter is a good coach" but he did nothing brilliant. Purdue nutted up and made plays
to be fair - the final play was great - and stefanovic or however its spelled hit a ballasy shot
this is why Collins should be fired. This is not a one off thing. It’s been like this for 7 years. The one great year by nu standards was bc BMac had a year for the ages at the of games. I don’t know where Collins learned this end game strategy. When the cats were up 8 the very nice Purdue fans behind me were going to leave - I suggested they stay ....Collins might be the worst end of game coach ever. It’s a seven year issue ... it should cost him his job
I'm a Purdue fan but I actually thought he was doing the right thing by shortening the game down the stretch. We hadn't scored a field goal from like the 9-minute mark to the 3-minute mark. He was betting that we wouldn't score 4 straight field goals in the last 3 minutes after having not seen us score 1 in the previous 6. I'd take those odds if I were him.
We nearly beat OSU and went dancing under Carmody playing stall ball ... *for an entire game*. Bottom line, no one complains about the burn offense when players hit shots.
One more reason in favor of the decision to take the air out of the ball? We’d made four field goals in the previous 8 minutes. And turned it over 3 times. It’s not exactly like we were humming on all cylinders.
One of the big problems about us trying stall balls is we are not good at it. Guys hang onto the ball for WAY too long...often not even trying to advance the ball and see if there's a decent option until there's like 5-7 seconds left. Buie and Spencer both did this. Buie just clanged a contested 3 after holding the ball the entire shot clock, and Spencer ended up fumbling the ball away on his drive to the left baseline. Jared Jones did have a decent look one a prior possession but everything was to disjointed and obviously the team wasn't on the same page so he ended up giving it back to Spencer, who tried to give it back to him with 2 seconds left after getting stuffed in the lane.
If you're going to do it, kill some clock and then go into some semblance of a normal offensive flow with 12-15 seconds left so you at least have time for a couple passes and maybe a really good look off of it. That philosophy really shouldn't be that hard to coach.
If you're going to do it, kill some clock and then go into some semblance of a normal offensive flow with 12-15 seconds left so you at least have time for a couple passes and maybe a really good look off of it. That philosophy really shouldn't be that hard to coach.
Thanks for the input. Good clutch finish by the Boilers; congrats on the win. BUT, with such an inexperienced group as ours, I would argue that what NU should be doing at the end of tight games is to find out who can make things HAPPEN that will put the game away. We learned nothing tonight except that “stall ball” (which anyone SHOULD be able to do without screwing it up) can put the team into a virtual coma and provides players with the mental “down time”, while standing around, to let the “here we go again” negative thoughts into their collective psyche. We’ve learned THAT enough times; we didn’t need to learn it again against a good team like yours.
That play came from Brian James, the designated in bounds coach. Same coach who drew up the Taphorn-Pardon play vs. Michigan
I like looking at Bart Torvik's FUN stat, which is "fortune unexplained by numbers." We rank 351st out of 353 teams, with an actual winning % of more than 17% less what it should be based on our statistical profile. That means we should be 10-11 but are 6-15. We were 314th in this stat last year and 257th two years ago.
Torvik actually has us ranked 95th in the country overall, one spot below Bradley and one ahead of North Carolina. There's no team with a worse winning percentage than us until you get to 240th (St. Joseph's at 4-18).
As much as I want to be upbeat like Heywood, I do think coaching has let us down this year and last. These guys have played well enough to have a few more wins, and that's not even counting the Merrimack and Radford debacles.
I do share Heywood's view that we're in good shape with talent going into next year, but another season of giving away 4-5 games we should win could be the difference between being solidly in the NCAA tourney and sitting out of the postseason completely. And as another poster said in this thread, that has nothing to do with admission standards.
That's because Purdue played with intensity down the stretch. We turned it off. That affects the defensive end too. Stall ball doesn't work. The other teams senses the change in energy and then they realize they can be the aggressors. We've run the experiment over and over and over. I think the data are pretty conclusive.
All this debate on whether stall ball was a good strategy? With 4 minutes to go? No one plays stall ball with 4 minutes to go, up by 8. Up by 20, sure. Up by 8, maybe under 2 minutes is a defensible strategy.
Wondering why Purdue had not hit a shot for minutes and went on a 11-0 run? We did a good job giving them confidence. Look no further than stall ball that early is telling the other team “look, we’re shitting out pants over here, so it’s up to you to make a run or not”
Wondering why Purdue had not hit a shot for minutes and went on a 11-0 run? We did a good job giving them confidence. Look no further than stall ball that early is telling the other team “look, we’re shitting out pants over here, so it’s up to you to make a run or not”
One of those Beran looks was taken too early. And I'd argue that easier two's shouldn't be completely dismissed when you're up 4-6 pts and under two minutes.
Spencer always hangs onto the ball to long and Boo did the same last night. Maybe he's still hurting a bit and Beran also was limping at times. Seemed like they never started the offense until the shot clock was down to 12 seconds.
Anyone remember the tourney season and games like Dayton where NU would blow the doors off a team in the first half and then barely escape in the end? Same thing is happening now. Only NU doesn’t have the talent to get huge leads. The leads are still big enough to win, but Collins refuses to change his strategy, and NU no longer barely wins. He’s a good enough coach to usually have his team competitive. I hope he matures to be a coach who’s good enough to learn from his many repeated mistakes.
Anyone notice that Nance, Young and Turner went 2 for 17 and Young’s turnover cost NU a chance to win the game. Nance needs to take his game to the paint. Young needs to play with the physicality needed in the Big 10. Turner was supposed to be leader off the bench and make some key baskets, but he has struggled. But the simplistic fan reaction is to blame the coaches. That will always be the case. Too bad no one realizes that players have to make the winning plays at the end of the game to win games.
You gotta be kidding on Young. That was probably the only truly aggressive play ran in 4 minutes. Not a coincidence that it was with the game tied. So the ball slipped. It happens.
