CFP open thread

[NUCat320]

I doubt that our “championship” today is any more interesting than what would have come out of a more traditional bowl alignment.

Just making it up, but you’d have some interesting games, some blowouts, the chance to argue about it, and, perhaps most importantly, *meaningful* games on January 1.
Mich v Utah in Rose
Alabama v Pitt in Sugar
Cincy v Georgia in Fiesta
Notre Dame v Ok St in Cotton
OSU v Mississippi in Orange
Mississippi v Wake in Peach

In that alignment, you potentially get to argue for four national champs (Cincy + the one-loss teams), including two different ‘yeah but XX beat YY’ arguments and a ‘goddammit ND isn’t even a conference champ’ argument and countless other things.

(Aside, ND should schedule a rotating 13th game every year, played at a rotating neutral site and aired on NBC, versus a TBD opponent and that is a) ranked in the top 20 and b) not in a conference championship game. )

 

[JT2311]

When do they study for finals?

FCS does a 24 team playoff under a similar timeline so I’m sure it can be done with the academic schedule.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

I would still expand because of what has happened with the rest of the NY6 bowls. Cap the regular season at 11 games and do the 12th game like the B1G did last year where you play your equal division finisher. Play the first round Dec 11th (using this year as an example) We would’ve had some really solid 5-12 matchups this year. Play the next round the week after at the Peach, Cotton, Orange and Fiesta bowls. Semi Finals are the Rose and Sugar on the first then title game is bid out. Yes Georgia and Alabama still roll to the final but we get some fun playoff matchups and some on campus. With the increase in TV $ players on playoff participants get a cut if the money.

I would prefer we get to the 4 16-team super conference model and each team plays a 9 game conference schedule plus one game against the equivalent finisher in each other conference. Then maybe a 6 team playoff with the four winners and two at larges. The other conferences are out and follow basically the FCs model (which is what is mostly going to happen to them within five years, by the way).

 

[AdamOnFirst]

I doubt that our “championship” today is any more interesting than what would have come out of a more traditional bowl alignment.

Just making it up, but you’d have some interesting games, some blowouts, the chance to argue about it, and, perhaps most importantly, *meaningful* games on January 1.
Mich v Utah in Rose
Alabama v Pitt in Sugar
Cincy v Georgia in Fiesta
Notre Dame v Ok St in Cotton
OSU v Mississippi in Orange
Mississippi v Wake in Peach

In that alignment, you potentially get to argue for four national champs (Cincy + the one-loss teams), including two different ‘yeah but XX beat YY’ arguments and a ‘goddammit ND isn’t even a conference champ’ argument and countless other things.

(Aside, ND should schedule a rotating 13th game every year, played at a rotating neutral site and aired on NBC, versus a TBD opponent and that is a) ranked in the top 20 and b) not in a conference championship game. )

Notre Dame should just join the GD ACC already. ****ing annoying assholes.

 

[FeralFelidae]

I would prefer we get to the 4 16-team super conference model and each team plays a 9 game conference schedule plus one game against the equivalent finisher in each other conference. Then maybe a 6 team playoff with the four winners and two at larges. The other conferences are out and follow basically the FCs model (which is what is mostly going to happen to them within five years, by the way).

That sounds terrible.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

That sounds terrible.

To each their own!

Non major conference football is in the middle of - not facing in the future, currently experiencing - a financial calamity from the pandemic that qualifies as a full scale extinction event across a major portion of the sport. This isn’t conjecture on my part, this is the real financial reality at many, many schools

 

[NUCat320]

To each their own!

Non major conference football is in the middle of - not facing in the future, currently experiencing - a financial calamity from the pandemic that qualifies as a full scale extinction event across a major portion of the sport. This isn’t conjecture on my part, this is the real financial reality at many, many schools

A 64-team D1 seems inevitable. (Could it get to 80? Would NU be included along the 64?)

FCS football is great. The MAC should head there (and the Sun Belt schools should return).

At some point soon, schools effectively creating NIL arrangements will significantly reduce the value of the actual scholarship — perhaps rendering the 85-scholarship limit moot.

 

[FeralFelidae]

A 64-team D1 seems inevitable. (Could it get to 80? Would NU be included along the 64?)

FCS football is great. The MAC should head there (and the Sun Belt schools should return).

At some point soon, schools effectively creating NIL arrangements will significantly reduce the value of the actual scholarship — perhaps rendering the 85-scholarship limit moot.

The MAC just beat the PAC in the Sun Bowl.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

A 64-team D1 seems inevitable. (Could it get to 80? Would NU be included along the 64?)

FCS football is great. The MAC should head there (and the Sun Belt schools should return).

At some point soon, schools effectively creating NIL arrangements will significantly reduce the value of the actual scholarship — perhaps rendering the 85-scholarship limit moot.

There are currently 65 power five programs, I believe, and one would imagine most of those are safe. Really, the only question is the fate of the Big 12. NU, as a founding and protected member of the richest conference, is completely secure in our place as part of things. My guess would be if the Big 12 ends up boxed out by The Alliance and the SEC, we get something close to what I described. If the Big 12 cobbles things together, we get something else.

I too enjoy and am involved in FCS football. A lot of FCS programs won’t make it to 2030 with scholarships. A lot more will move up and join leagues like the MAC. A lot of G5 teams that are weaker will also go non scholarship. After a huge percentage of the G5 and FCS go non-scholarship or cut the sport, It’s unclear if there will still be separate FCS and G5 levels or if they’ll have mostly merged.

The scholarship number is far from moot to these schools. Scholarships are expensive as shit. 85, 55, and 0 are all massively different revenue requirements, to say nothing of having the resources to compete.

These are the conversations happening at the highest levels of dozens of D1 athletics departments across the country right now.

 

[CatManTrue]

Why did Utah just return a kickoff from the 3 for a 97 yard TD against OSU in the Rose Bowl?

Don’t they know that you should always fair catch if anywhere near the endzone? Genyk, please give them a call to explain.

 

[FeralFelidae]

There are currently 65 power five programs, I believe, and one would imagine most of those are safe. Really, the only question is the fate of the Big 12. NU, as a founding and protected member of the richest conference, is completely secure in our place as part of things. My guess would be if the Big 12 ends up boxed out by The Alliance and the SEC, we get something close to what I described. If the Big 12 cobbles things together, we get something else.

I too enjoy and am involved in FCS football. A lot of FCS programs won’t make it to 2030 with scholarships. A lot more will move up and join leagues like the MAC. A lot of G5 teams that are weaker will also go non scholarship. After a huge percentage of the G5 and FCS go non-scholarship or cut the sport, It’s unclear if there will still be separate FCS and G5 levels or if they’ll have mostly merged.

The scholarship number is far from moot to these schools. Scholarships are expensive as shit. 85, 55, and 0 are all massively different revenue requirements, to say nothing of having the resources to compete.

These are the conversations happening at the highest levels of dozens of D1 athletics departments across the country right now.

Some tell us that these scholarships are nothing of value, anyway. When these football scholarships go away, along with all the women's scholarships that balanced them, I guess these lost opportunities for actual student-athletes are the price we have to pay to satiate the greed of the remaining 64-team superconference that you yearn for.

Why would I continue to throw my support behind such an arrangement? It feels so dirty.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

Some tell us that these scholarships are nothing of value, anyway. When these football scholarships go away, along with all the women's scholarships that balanced them, I guess these lost opportunities for actual student-athletes are the price we have to pay to satiate the greed of the remaining 64-team superconference that you yearn for.

Why would I continue to throw my support behind such an arrangement? It feels so dirty.

Reducing the cost of football is, in part, a way to minimize cuts to other sports for these schools. Football is hit a cash cow at these G5 and FCS schools. In fact, at the ones who are going to cut schollies, it’s often a net drain and right now is at a huge deficit. It’s a totally different economic model than the P5.

 

[phatcat]

Some tell us that these scholarships are nothing of value, anyway. When these football scholarships go away, along with all the women's scholarships that balanced them, I guess these lost opportunities for actual student-athletes are the price we have to pay to satiate the greed of the remaining 64-team superconference that you yearn for.

Why would I continue to throw my support behind such an arrangement? It feels so dirty.

Why do the football players have to risk life and limb to support the other programs?

 

[stpaulcat]

If the title game is all SEC, I wouldn't be surprised if the ratings were really down. I for one will boycott it for sure. Cincinnati and now Michigan are making their respective conferences looking really bad. I am just sticking with NU, my alma maters, and the BIG anymore if this 🗑️ continues. Some ACC as well. Everything is about the $$$$$. Herbstreit asked why the sport was dying, well pal we are witnessing the answer right here and now. The NCAA is corrupt and has sniffed the $$$$ to let this get out of control. This is why I am not sure NU will be able to compete without "selling out" at some point, which is a big reason I became a NU fan in the first place. It is just a sad state of affairs.

Post of the 2020's.

 

[Jaguar 88]

A 64-team D1 seems inevitable. (Could it get to 80? Would NU be included along the 64?)

FCS football is great. The MAC should head there (and the Sun Belt schools should return).

At some point soon, schools effectively creating NIL arrangements will significantly reduce the value of the actual scholarship — perhaps rendering the 85-scholarship limit moot.

The MAC deserves to be in FSB. They did decent in their bowls and can still knock off lesser BIG teams. NI could have knocked off NU in all probability this past season.

 

[StreamCat]

Yep, let’s keep tinkering until we really screw it up.

 

[catfans5]

Why do the football players have to risk life and limb to support the other programs?

It is called Title IX. If you look at the racial makeup up of the football participants and the racial make up of women’s soccer, lacrosse and soccer, one can make the argument that you have African American makes, some from low income homes, supporting or paying for welll off white females to go school for free.

 

[CatManTrue]

It is called Title IX. If you look at the racial makeup up of the football participants and the racial make up of women’s soccer, lacrosse and soccer, one can make the argument that you have African American makes, some from low income homes, supporting or paying for welll off white females to go school for free.

Interesting… Hot take! I hadn’t thought of it that way before. Let’s get woke in this thread!

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

It is called Title IX. If you look at the racial makeup up of the football participants and the racial make up of women’s soccer, lacrosse and soccer, one can make the argument that you have African American makes, some from low income homes, supporting or paying for welll off white females to go school for free.

I’m guessing this guy would agree with the argument you are referencing in your post above.

 

[catfans5]

Interesting… Hot take! I hadn’t thought of it that way before. Let’s get woke in this thread!

Not woke. There was an article about this in either 2015 or 2016. This was not an original thought by me. Two of my African American ex-law partners also pointed it out to me. I had another ex partner who was physically destroyed by his playing career. It’s why I have no objection to the players getting $. They are being used. They should get the $ while they can.

 

[NUCat320]

Not woke. There was an article about this in either 2015 or 2016. This was not an original thought by me. Two of my African American ex-law partners also pointed it out to me. I had another ex partner who was physically destroyed by his playing career. It’s why I have no objection to the players getting $. They are being used. They should get the $ while they can.

There is great irony in young suburban athletes doing years of private coaching and travel teams all in the name of ‘scholarships’. Like, you’re effectively paying tuition to those coaches and club teams, and you can even have your choice of schools versus just the ones that eventually recruit you.

 

[zeek55]

I doubt that our “championship” today is any more interesting than what would have come out of a more traditional bowl alignment.

Just making it up, but you’d have some interesting games, some blowouts, the chance to argue about it, and, perhaps most importantly, *meaningful* games on January 1.
Mich v Utah in Rose
Alabama v Pitt in Sugar
Cincy v Georgia in Fiesta
Notre Dame v Ok St in Cotton
OSU v Mississippi in Orange
Mississippi v Wake in Peach

In that alignment, you potentially get to argue for four national champs (Cincy + the one-loss teams), including two different ‘yeah but XX beat YY’ arguments and a ‘goddammit ND isn’t even a conference champ’ argument and countless other things.

(Aside, ND should schedule a rotating 13th game every year, played at a rotating neutral site and aired on NBC, versus a TBD opponent and that is a) ranked in the top 20 and b) not in a conference championship game. )

Yeah, the best format for a playoff for me is to use a +1 or CFP after the bowl season is played out normally.

Expanding the playoff to 12 is a turnoff to me of sorts because it just seems unlikely that there's more than 2-4 teams that are ever really contenders.

Most of the semifinals that have been played have been huge blowouts. Doesn't mean the teams didn't belong there; Michigan and Cincy were easily the 2 best teams that weren't Alabama or Georgia, but I don't see the argument for including ND, Ohio State, or whoever else in this discussion this year. It really was just 2 teams ahead of the rest.

In many years, it's mostly just a 2-4 team affair; which is why doing a +1 (or CFP 4) after a traditional NY6 sounds a lot better than a 12 team playoff.

You'd get to expand the playoff while keeping the traditional bowl season meaningful.

 

[corbi296]

There is great irony in young suburban athletes doing years of private coaching and travel teams all in the name of ‘scholarships’. Like, you’re effectively paying tuition to those coaches and club teams, and you can even have your choice of schools versus just the ones that eventually recruit you.

not all those suburban athletes and their parents are doing all that with a meaningful expectation that it will help their kid get a Scholarship. Maybe a hope/dream but they make that investment because they want to help their kids realize the value of hard work in achieving their goal of excelling at sports, and because they want to give their kids the opportunity to derive the benefits of participating in team sports for as long as possible. I know that was the case for me and my kids.

 

[No Chores]

It seems clear after the bowl games that Alabama and Georgia are the best teams in the country. I'm not convinced, however, that the SEC is the toughest conference in the country. Their record in bowl games presently stands at 5 and 6. If Kansas State upsets LSU on January 4th, a great way for Kelly to begin his tenure at LSU, the conference will finish with a bowl record of 5 and 7. 7 bowl game losses is not very impressive in my mind. The BIG finished at 6 and 4. Also, for the most part, the SEC's out of conference schedule is a joke, and is designed to keep their teams healthy.

 

[NUCat320]

not all those suburban athletes and their parents are doing all that with a meaningful expectation that it will help their kid get a Scholarship. Maybe a hope/dream but they make that investment because they want to help their kids realize the value of hard work in achieving their goal of excelling at sports, and because they want to give their kids the opportunity to derive the benefits of participating in team sports for as long as possible. I know that was the case for me and my kids.

Yup, I absolutely agree.
Memories. Hard work. Being part of a team. The joy of being really good at something. Better than video games. The joy of getting better. Enjoying Hampton Inn breakfasts. All perfectly valid reasons.

‘Scholarships’ just never makes sense. Financially speaking, youth sports are more of a consumption good than an investment. (For the reasons above, they can be considered an investment in their human capital.)

 

[catfans5]

not all those suburban athletes and their parents are doing all that with a meaningful expectation that it will help their kid get a Scholarship. Maybe a hope/dream but they make that investment because they want to help their kids realize the value of hard work in achieving their goal of excelling at sports, and because they want to give their kids the opportunity to derive the benefits of participating in team sports for as long as possible. I know that was the case for me and my kids.

Once we hit high school, I am speaking to girl’s sports, the prevailing thought amongst parents, talking with them on road trips, was the girls playing in college, either Division I, II or III. They can get $ at every level, though it may be disguised as something else or get into a college because they are an athlete. When my wife and I talked with bball and soccer travel or AAU coaches they were shocked that we were not looking to use the sport as an avenue for college. We were/are a distinct minority.

 

[FeralFelidae]

Why do the football players have to risk life and limb to support the other programs?

Didn't we lose Izzy Scane for the season with an injury? What's this nonsense that the gals aren't pulling their weight?

If the colleges are no longer in the business of providing education opportunities for student-athletes, men AND women, then I really don't see a reason to continue following them. I hope it all comes crashing down. The. SEC would live on as a pro league, but they have no shame and their priorities are backwards, and the rest of us would see them for the farce they are.

 

[phatcat]

Didn't we lose Izzy Scane for the season with an injury? What's this nonsense that the gals aren't pulling their weight?

If the colleges are no longer in the business of providing education opportunities for student-athletes, men AND women, then I really don't see a reason to continue following them. I hope it all comes crashing down. The. SEC would live on as a pro league, but they have no shame and their priorities are backwards, and the rest of us would see them for the farce they are.

A) I said "other programs" not "girls", meaning, and including, men's sports such as golf. B) I am talking about how football brings in 85% of the revenue (and men's BB like 14% of the rest) and they are at far worse risk than most other sports. For every Izzy, there are 10 Jangos. Intentionally colliding with people for months at a time cause a little more lasting damage than an unfortunate injury like hers.

Football is like a shark and the rest of the sports are remorae, or worse, sea lampreys

 

[FeralFelidae]

A) I said "other programs" not "girls", meaning, and including, men's sports such as golf. B) I am talking about how football brings in 85% of the revenue (and men's BB like 14% of the rest) and they are at far worse risk than most other sports. For every Izzy, there are 10 Jangos. Intentionally colliding with people for months at a time cause a little more lasting damage than an unfortunate injury like hers.

Football is like a shark and the rest of the sports are remorae, or worse, sea lampreys

For the men, at least, for the non-revenue sports, don't they typically award partial scholarships? (Like baseball.) Sure, football is more punishing, but they're getting full rides.