Just saying that if he decided to no longer play BB and still stay at NU there are other ways of doing it without handcuffing the program. Generally at low or no cost as he is also a minority student. Mr. Turner exited the program but still was able to stay at NU without it counting against the scholarship limits so you know it is possible. . It might not be as beneficial as an athletic scholarship but would still be a pretty reasonable cost. Have a friend who sent his daughter to NU and his total cost was $8K for 4years. An athletic scholarship is sort of a working scholarship. While I agree he earned the first year at NU (maybe even the second), but I disagree that he has earned 4 years of that type of scholarship. IF he wants to stay, at NU as a regular student, fine but other ways of doing it should be explored just like other students because at this point, that is what he is.
Charlie Moore
- Thread starter Secho99
- Start date
Does NU just hand over money to minority students? Vassar is from a well-educated family.
Turner took a leave of absence from the program and lost his scholarship as a result. I have no idea what he did to pay for his education after that. Do you?
It doesn't matter what you agree with. Northwestern offers guaranteed four-year scholarships to basketball players, so that's what Vassar has.
I suppose it's possible that Vassar quit the program and NU is, out of the kindness of its heart, continuing to pay for his education until someone is found to take the scholarship. But if that was the case you would think they would say so, both because it would be a great PR move for the university and so that people wouldn't be making unfounded attacks on Vassar's character.
Why would he do that? Pretty sure that CCC decided he didn't want Vassar, not the other way around. So, why would he agree to pay anything when he did his part. He developed his game, earned a full ride and signed. Let's say Vassar had grown 6 inches and developed skills making him maybe the next Micheal Jordan - but didn't want to be here. He says he rather play at MI State, or Indiana - it will improve his chances to be a number one pick. NU is holding him down. Would you contend that CCC agree to waive any restrictions on such a transfer?
Yet, because CCC probably felt Vassar wasn't what he wanted anymore and removed him from the team, then Vassar should transfer to a lesser school or pay for his education. That is ridiculous. Again, the student athletes are already exploited. This one small benefit that the school is married to them as long as they follow the rules is a minor concession.
It is a working scholarship, only the boss doesn't want him to work. The contract is four years.
Glad to see that you agree that these so-called "student atlethe" are workers. You or anyone else knows what has been said between Collins and Vassar but we do know the he stated that he planned on transferring. Yes, he is working the system but he sure seems like he is into it for himself only and doing anything to earn his schlorship.
Ok, and CCC is a philanthropist. Working for free too? Seeking the best character students without interest in skill for scholarships? Each and every part is working for themselves. Vassar clearly worked hard to earn a D1 scholarship. And there is no way he has broken the covenants of his scholarship since he still receives it. If he is gaming the system, then no more than CCC and NU tried to game it to move Vassar out of the program. And in that case, they lost. They were outflanked by an 18 year old. Brilliant. So, blame Vassar for not simply surrendering what he worked most of his life to achieve? Hah.
CCC signed him. CCC decided he does not want him on the team. And what ever led to this point did not break the rules allowing NU to retrieve the scholarship - at this point. Every single part of this is on CCC and NU. Not the 18 year kid that wanted a top shelf education paid by his years developing his basketball talents. Vassar did his job.
Sure, except I have not read anything about Cook wanting to transfer or not getting along with his coaches and teammates.
Basically there is a lot of need based money available at NU. Maybe not as easy to get as at say Harvard where any family that makes below a certain amount goes for free but close enough. I know of preferred walk ons and others that got substantial help so I know programs are available. As a minority, probably closer to the head of the line for assistance than the people I am talking about.
Sorry, but you must be completely out of your mind. If Virginia and I are agreeing on something, you're pretty much sure to be dead wrong about whatever you're babbling on about. You can't compare Ash or Quinn Cook to Vassar. Ash did not "threaten" to transfer and I never saw anything about Cook doing that at Duke.
Coach Collins made a big error in recruiting Vassar. Now Coach is suffering the consequences and bravo to Vassar for staying in school on NU's dime. But, Vassar's situation has nothing to do with Ash's situation. From my vantage point, Ash has had a great attitude.
As far as I know, we don't have any information on Turner paying his own way now. Usually when a player retires due to medical reasons, for example (not saying that's what happened with Mike), NU puts out a release, but under Coach Collins, we have seen nondisclosure agreements and players racing to get out of Dodge.
While I do not know exactly what Turner did, I have to imagine that he applied for available aid and scholarships. DO you see him as having ponied up $65K?
When Vassar stated that he intended to transfer doesn't that mean that he basically took a leave of absence as well? If he did not show up to practice this year wouldn't that void the contract? If Turner lost his scholarship because of that action...
But numbers say that his scholarship did not count against the total so it was taken care of in some other manner.
I have no idea, which was my point. But I find it highly unlikely that NU paid his way outside of any financial aid he may have received.
Yes, which is why the most logical conclusion is that Vassar didn't leave the team voluntarily.
Among all the "logical conclusions," and qualifiers such as "pretty sure," "probably" and "whatever led to this point," when are we going to discuss a FACT - one of an incredibly precious few - that Xyzbob (and others to a lesser extent) very obviously choose to ignore?
Until you want to acknowledge Vassar's travels, you're banging your head and looking to kill the staff about what you're "pretty sure" a coach has "probably" done versus what a kid has always done.
Good luck in that battle.
Facts:
1) If you quit the team, you lose your scholarship.
2) If you are kicked off the team for cause -- violation of rules, poor academics, etc. -- you lose your scholarship.
3) Vassar still has his scholarship.
Conclusions:
1) Vassar neither quit nor was kicked off for cause.
or
2) Vassar quit or was kicked off for cause, and the school is continuing to honor his scholarship anyway in a break from all known history.
His "travels" don't really factor into it.
Also, I'm not "looking to kill the staff" -- I've said on multiple occasions that I have absolutely no problem with Collins asking players to leave, if indeed he has done so.
2) Coble was kicked off the team for cause and retained his scholarship. (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...20101121_1_kevin-coble-nu-basketball-red-flag)
My apologies for the killing the staff comment Styre. I appreciate your reasonable counter-point in this whole discussion.
Good point. Though in his case, he graduated in December, so his bill for that quarter might already have been paid. And the way it was presented to the public was that he had decided to quit to rehab his foot and finish his studies as soon as possible. But there is precedent, you're right.
A whole lot of speculation in this thread. We don't know if Vassar still has his scholarship, or if he's actively out shopping his services. We don't know where the scholarship is coming from that's supposedly been offered to Moore. Or that was offered to Canyon Barry before him, or to the Kent State kid we are supposedly offering. We don't know if Vassar quit the team and then changed his mind, if Collins strongly suggested he leave, or if he is Santa Claus and is voluntarily paying for Vassar's education out of the goodness of his heart. So much we don't know. Boy we got opinions though.
Fact is, JV was a risky offer at the time he was offered. Anybody with a track record like his - five high schools, four states, I think - could be considered a risk. CCC fell in love with the athleticism in hopes of finding his own Nate Robinson. Turns out, JV wasn't Nate Robinson. (He wasn't Amare Stoudemire, who had a similarly nomadic high school experience, either.)
Turns out, JV also didn't have the best experience as a high school nomad, and turns out that nobody else sees him as the next Nate Robinson.
I like the idea that JV likes NU, values the opportunity that NU offered him of its own free will, and has chosen to plan for his *life* rather than a pro basketball future that isn't happening. This is a *good* decision.
Honestly, with NU halfway through a four year commitment, the best thing nu could do is hold onto him for two more years (you know, because that's what they offered), and celebrate him on senior day as an example of NU being a big time place that does things The Right Way.
JV was a terrible recruiting miss. He can still be an asset to the program. (Remember the 'James Montgomery gets a schollie' video?)
I am not going to weigh in most of this because I don't know any of the facts and really don't understand how this happened, but I will say that there is no way in hell we should celebrate him on senior day. He ain't on the team for whatever reason so there is nothing to celebrate. We have a walk-on on the team that is less talented than JV so it can't just be a talent issue. Collins has decided the team is better off without JV on the team. Nothing to celebrate from a basketball perspective. If he stays for 4 years, I hope he gets his degree and has a successful career in whatever he chooses. He can celebrate with the rest of the graduates at graduation.
I haven't read anything like that about Vassar other than the speculation and conjecture here.
Ok for you to have an opinion. Doesn't make it true, valid or any better than mine. I do not believe Vassar chose to transfer. Announcement came from athletic department. I do not believe Vassar broke any rules that would justify his dismissal. I think Vassar underperformed and felt he was better than the chances he was given. I believe Ash underperformed and seemingly never gained CCC's confidence. In that, I find similarity.
None of know about either player's popularity or whether that should even be relevant.
Ash will play at least 15-20 minutes per game next year! Ash is one of fastest kids on team and one of best defensive players.
Except Vassar DID announce that he was going to transfer to another program, while Ash actually fulfilled his end of the bargain and continued to practice and play with the team to earn his schlorship.
Well, Northwestern and Chris Collins announced he was transferring. I've never actually seen Vassar quoted about the intention to transfer. I sense that he was volun-told to transfer.
The text of the release, still available at NUSports.com:
VASSAR TO TRANSFER FROM NORTHWESTERN
March 30, 2015
EVANSTON, Ill. - Freshman guard Johnnie Vassar will transfer from Northwestern University head men's basketball coach Chris Collins announced today.
"Johnnie let us know that he has chosen to pursue another university to continue his career," Collins said. "We support his decision and enjoyed having him as a member of the program this season. He is a talented player with a bright future and we wish him nothing but the best in everything he does going forward."
Vassar appeared in 18 games off the bench as a true freshman during the 2014-15 season.
Ah. the quote actually does say that "Johnnie let us know the HE HAS CHOSEN to pursue another university. Nowhere does it show that he was volun-told by anyone. Wonder why he changed his mind, which is something that he has done numerous times during his basketball playing days.
Sometimes players "chose" to do what their coach suggests. Of course, none of us know what really took place in this relationship between Vassar and Collins. Nor do any of us know if anything has changed in that relationship. I'm still amazed there's not one reporter or media type who seems to have the gumption to ask Collins or Vassar about what REALLY happened. I realize NU is not a major beat in the Chicago media, but you'd think Teddy or somebody would be curious enough to dig into this situation, particularly now that NU seems to be recruiting again for 2016. Guess not...
Haven't read up on this one, but how do we know for sure he is still enrolled at NU? Is there an article stating that? Did Collins say that? Or are we just guessing because there hasn't been a press release on an official transfer.
Just out, "Willycat texted me last night and stated he felt my points were spot on and reflected a real understanding and grip of the situation. He also stated he only banters on the Board to keep the conversation lively."
Book that quote right next to the NU release.
Don't we live in a tweeting, social media world. I am not hip enough to find Vassar on social media - but I'm curious if he announced committing to the Cats originally. If so, I wonder if there is anything about his intentions since March 2015 through today. I can put many words in willy's mouth to serve my own end, doesn't make them any more his words than those released by NU on Vassar's behalf.
Too lazy to find links, but it has been widely reported and acknowledged by NU and CCC that Vassar continues to attend NU on BBall scholarship.
Still, there have to be a few rogue independent reporting types out there.
I said weeks ago that Lou V is noticeably quiet on these threads. I wonder if it would break any covenant for him to simply acknowledge that certain powers have deemed this topic off limits. Hey Lou? Or even that you do not wish to answer the question - that would be nice enough.
More of an anarchist than standing towards a wing, but I am enjoying this year's Presidential circus on both sides. But why does the question invoke conspiracy theorist labeling? Seems this is a simple question for the Board moderator - a man that posts regularly, and often responsively. If he says, no Bob, no one has discouraged me from this topic, then I would believe him. And then I would ask him if he would seek out Vassar and other relevant people and do a story. In comparison to the puff pieces Lou and Rivals offers, don't insult me by saying it's a waste of time. If such a story was offered, I would pony up and subscribe. Not that my subscription shatters the Rival world, but I know it's more than most those puff pieces generate.
Couldn't it also be that NU told Vassar it would honor his scholarship as long as a scholarship exists, but that it could be awarded to someone else at any time? It works that way with walk-ons sometimes--a guy might get an otherwise unfilled scholarship when he's a junior, but loses the scholarship as a senior because it goes to a new recruit.
NU was recruiting Kipper Nichols in spring 2015, after Vassar announced he was transferring, but Nichols went somewhere else. Perhaps if Nichols had committed to NU, Vassar's scholarship would have been Nichols', and perhaps the same thing would apply to Barry.
NU proudly offers four year scholarships. NU missed here. Frankly, perhaps a four year scholarship offer was one of the reasons JV chose NU over his handful of offers.
Is NU the only Power 5 program that guarantees four year scholarships? Thought the NCAA mandated that guarantee recently. Yes/No.
Four year scholarships had not been allowed. Now, as of 3-5 years ago, they can be offered. Previously, all scholarships were a one year renewable contract.
If the JV situation were to happen at, say, Michigan State (no idea, just guessing), JV could have been not renewed instead of 'asked to transfer' / 'had his choice to transfer sent via press release'.
(Edit: it looks like it started during the 2012-13 academic year.)
http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaaf/wri...4-year-scholarships-to-athletes-but-many-dont
