Collins’ Future

[ballerog711]

You guys definitely have had a different experience than me. I just started watching last year.

But from a culture perspective that's needed to win I can see a change. The bad shot selection has decreased and holding the players accountable has changed.

Yes they still struggle to make layups and foul shots, but last game instead of starting to chuck and duck, they found a way to get MN touches where he could get easy baskets. They executed the play against Michigan st.

Thats just my take.

 

[ballerog711]

Who is going to be a fan for 40 years for a team that stinks. Anything is possible

 

[NJCat]

Who is going to be a fan for 40 years for a team that stinks. Anything is possible

Well, I've done it. Been a fan of stinky NU teams for 48 years.

 

[ballerog711]

I am red Sox fan for 50 years, first 40 weren't good I'm with ya.

With the recruits most do not live up to the hype, so I am just hoping we find some hard working kids that make a difference.

 

[GatoLouco]

2 years ago, 3 games into the B1G season, we were 6-1.

Last year, 1 game into the B1G season we were 8-2.

This year, 1 game into the B1G we are 7-2.

I'll wait.

 

[SDakaGordie]

Collins has proven (again) that he is a competent coach, which is way above the many negative opinions of this board and the Twitter-sphere. I’m not really sure how an opinion of his coaching would change a lot from now through the end of the season, as our main risks to achieving more then we did last year are injuries and fatigue, given our limited bench.

We can get good open shots - we just can’t make them. That’s the talent level - not the coaching level. We can resurrect the conversations about his recruiting ability, but it’s still arguably the best we’ve seen at NU, despite our continued limitations relative to the other teams. Just look at how many of guys he coached are still playing in pro leagues.

He has always had a relatively good defense, and the addition of Lowery appears to have brought it to an elite level that we have NEVER seen before in our lives. The omission of Nance and Young and Kopp and our elite defense are not uncorrelated.

He ain’t perfect, but none are. He’s more than a solid coach. I wish we could say that about Gragg in his position - he’s off to a really bad start when it comes to his observations about, and actions toward, Collins. And that is unfairly impacting Collins’ ability to perform.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Collins has proven (again) that he is a competent coach, which is way above the many negative opinions of this board and the Twitter-sphere. I’m not really sure how an opinion of his coaching would change a lot from now through the end of the season, as our main risks to achieving more then we did last year are injuries and fatigue, given our limited bench.

We can get good open shots - we just can’t make them. That’s the talent level - not the coaching level. We can resurrect the conversations about his recruiting ability, but it’s still arguably the best we’ve seen at NU, despite our continued limitations relative to the other teams. Just look at how many of guys he coached are still playing in pro leagues.

He has always had a relatively good defense, and the addition of Lowery appears to have brought it to an elite level that we have NEVER seen before in our lives. The omission of Nance and Young and Kopp and our elite defense are not uncorrelated.

He ain’t perfect, but none are. He’s more than a solid coach. I wish we could say that about Gragg in his position - he’s off to a really bad start when it comes to his observations about, and actions toward, Collins. And that is unfairly impacting Collins’ ability to perform.

Come on man, don't start us down that path again.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Unless Bo and Chase return for their freebie Covid year, next year will be a train wreck. Who is going to play PG? A true FY? Who is going to transfer into a program with a lame duck HC? The team will be young, and well below the scholarship limit. The only reason to keep him is to avoid 1 year of the buy-out.

Exactly. Probably have to find a grad transfer to play those guard spots. You don't exactly get the cream of the crop there--certainly likely not going to find someone with Chase's athleticism on defense or Boo's handle and volume score capabilities.

I would think CCC would try to get as much development out of MN, Hunger, Brooks, and Martinelli to take over some of the offensive load for next season (assuming CCC thinks he will get at least one more year).

 

[NUera]

Who is going to be a fan for 40 years for a team that stinks. Anything is possible

I'm halfway there.

 

[clarificationcat]

Collins has proven (again) that he is a competent coach, which is way above the many negative opinions of this board and the Twitter-sphere. I’m not really sure how an opinion of his coaching would change a lot from now through the end of the season, as our main risks to achieving more then we did last year are injuries and fatigue, given our limited bench.

We can get good open shots - we just can’t make them. That’s the talent level - not the coaching level. We can resurrect the conversations about his recruiting ability, but it’s still arguably the best we’ve seen at NU, despite our continued limitations relative to the other teams. Just look at how many of guys he coached are still playing in pro leagues.

He has always had a relatively good defense, and the addition of Lowery appears to have brought it to an elite level that we have NEVER seen before in our lives. The omission of Nance and Young and Kopp and our elite defense are not uncorrelated.

He ain’t perfect, but none are. He’s more than a solid coach. I wish we could say that about Gragg in his position - he’s off to a really bad start when it comes to his observations about, and actions toward, Collins. And that is unfairly impacting Collins’ ability to perform.

The depth is the best I have seen but he hasn't been able to recruit any stars since his first couple of recruiting classes. He's had enough recruiting classes to find a couple of guys outside the top 150 who are really good players and that hasn't happened. That's critical for success at Northwestern.

Talent wins games in basketball a lot more than coaching, as you know. Our offense under Carmody was awful when he had bad players and good when he had good players. Same coach. Same scheme that many folks seems to love so much. But vastly different results once Shurna, Thompson and Crawford showed up on campus. If you substituted Shurna for Beran or even Crawford for Audige or Thompson for Buie on last year's team, we probably go to the tournament.

I think Collins is a pretty good coach. Far better schematically than folks give him credit for on this board. But at some point you probably have to conclude that he's not very good at evaluating/developing players outside of the top 150.

 

[CappyNU]

I'm halfway there.

 

[ballerog711]

If Lowry and battle stay, the the entire staff should stay.

Most practices are run by the assistan coaches. I don't think they along with McIntosh are patting the boys on the back and saying nice try. You can see they are focusing in defense and with most of the players returning the defense should be better.

Plus they went out and found the next set of recruits who fit what they want to do. Might not be our choice, but they have a plan.

Now everyone was excited about Carr coming in as a recruit. His play took off all the sudden this year. Do you realize that Elliot Cadeau transferred to Link Academy this year. He is the #1 point guard for 2024. So is Carr that good or a product of his environment. He made need a top guard to succeed

Simmons last year, top 4 star recruit, but this was not a good situation. Wanted to be closer to home and struggled in the big 10 environment as his body did not develop.

Ryan Greer was OK coming out, and was an important piece of the team. Very smart player. He was not a product of this staff, but the players coming in seem to be of the same mold

 

[Hungry Jack]

Were BMac, Lindsey, and Pardon considered top-level talents (rhetorical question). Law was a 4 star but he was probably the only top 200-type kid on that NCAA roster.

Has recruiting / ranking changed that much that he cannot find players like this again?

 

[TheC]

I'm not smart enough to figure out why some coaches succeed and some coaches fail. But clearly, there is a difference. Some coaches can take unheralded recruits and develop them into really good college players. Whether that's teaching, development, motivation, identification of that "it" factor when recruiting, whatever.... Some coaches can assemble a bunch of average pieces to make the whole better than the sum of it's parts. Again, is that scheme? Motivation? Development? I just don't know. Some coaches can take a roster of highly recruited players and produce a mediocre team. What are they doing wrong? I'm not sure, but it is usually easy to tell the good coaches from the bad.

I can't tell you exactly what Collins does wrong, but his teams just haven't been any good except for that one magical year. And at the risk of getting slammed here, I don't think this year's team is very good at all and I fear the upcoming BIG season will bear that out. (And I really hope one of you will get to quote this in March to laugh at me). At the end of the day, you are what your record says you are.

 

[GatoLouco]

Has recruiting / ranking changed that much that he cannot find players like this again?

247 composites

Boo was #327
Chase was not even ranked
Ryan Young was #348

Only active player that, so far, can be argued is as good or better than these guys, while being a top #150 recruit, is Pete Nance.

For reference:
McIntosh #214
Pardon #300
Lindsey #281

 

[clarificationcat]

If Lowry and battle stay, the the entire staff should stay.

Most practices are run by the assistan coaches. I don't think they along with McIntosh are patting the boys on the back and saying nice try. You can see they are focusing in defense and with most of the players returning the defense should be better.

Plus they went out and found the next set of recruits who fit what they want to do. Might not be our choice, but they have a plan.

Now everyone was excited about Carr coming in as a recruit. His play took off all the sudden this year. Do you realize that Elliot Cadeau transferred to Link Academy this year. He is the #1 point guard for 2024. So is Carr that good or a product of his environment. He made need a top guard to succeed

Simmons last year, top 4 star recruit, but this was not a good situation. Wanted to be closer to home and struggled in the big 10 environment as his body did not develop.

Ryan Greer was OK coming out, and was an important piece of the team. Very smart player. He was not a product of this staff, but the players coming in seem to be of the same mold

247 composites

Boo was #327
Chase was not even ranked
Ryan Young was #348

Only active player that, so far, can be argued is as good or better than these guys, while being a top #150 recruit, is Pete Nance.

For reference:
McIntosh #214
Pardon #300
Lindsey #281

BMac was just misevaluated by the services, though. He chose us over some really good programs and was an impact player immediately. He should have been a 4-star. Lindsey had an Iowa offer, I think, among others, and should have been in the top 200 just on his size and shooting stroke. Pardon was just a great find.

 

[SDakaGordie]

I'm not smart enough to figure out why some coaches succeed and some coaches fail. But clearly, there is a difference. Some coaches can take unheralded recruits and develop them into really good college players. Whether that's teaching, development, motivation, identification of that "it" factor when recruiting, whatever.... Some coaches can assemble a bunch of average pieces to make the whole better than the sum of it's parts. Again, is that scheme? Motivation? Development? I just don't know. Some coaches can take a roster of highly recruited players and produce a mediocre team. What are they doing wrong? I'm not sure, but it is usually easy to tell the good coaches from the bad.

I can't tell you exactly what Collins does wrong, but his teams just haven't been any good except for that one magical year. And at the risk of getting slammed here, I don't think this year's team is very good at all and I fear the upcoming BIG season will bear that out. (And I really hope one of you will get to quote this in March to laugh at me). At the end of the day, you are what your record says you are.

Your negativism is remarkable, and it clearly shrouds a clear view. Here are two examples:

Who the heck are these great coaches in the Power 5 conferences? And tell me it’s not because they have great players.

NU has clearly been a very competitive team, just missing that Alpha player who can win 1:1 battles. (That’s way more than we can say about football the last 3 or so years. And look at our women’s team; not competitive at all against top teams after losing one player. Do you think Fitz and Coach Joe suck?).

 

[NUCat320]

247 composites

Boo was #327
Chase was not even ranked
Ryan Young was #348

Only active player that, so far, can be argued is as good or better than these guys, while being a top #150 recruit, is Pete Nance.

For reference:
McIntosh #214
Pardon #300
Lindsey #281

Mc had an Indiana State commit early, which pushed down his rating. He held to NU after IU came calling. I think Lindsey had some post-junior injury issues, but did get that Iowa offer in addition to NU.

Those rankings make it all the more strange that CCC spent so much time chasing unlikely four-stars. NU’s best team ever was built on unheralded guys who came to NU to be the first. Let’s find others who want to make history, rather than just stand and shoot and be tall.

 

[clarificationcat]

I'm not smart enough to figure out why some coaches succeed and some coaches fail. But clearly, there is a difference. Some coaches can take unheralded recruits and develop them into really good college players. Whether that's teaching, development, motivation, identification of that "it" factor when recruiting, whatever.... Some coaches can assemble a bunch of average pieces to make the whole better than the sum of it's parts. Again, is that scheme? Motivation? Development? I just don't know. Some coaches can take a roster of highly recruited players and produce a mediocre team. What are they doing wrong? I'm not sure, but it is usually easy to tell the good coaches from the bad.

I can't tell you exactly what Collins does wrong, but his teams just haven't been any good except for that one magical year. And at the risk of getting slammed here, I don't think this year's team is very good at all and I fear the upcoming BIG season will bear that out. (And I really hope one of you will get to quote this in March to laugh at me). At the end of the day, you are what your record says you are.

In your view, what teams in the past 30 years were any good other than the tournament team? 9 B1G teams made the tournament last year and Providence won the Big East so it was a really tough schedule. I though we were a pretty good team by Northwestern standards (not something to be proud of). Some missed free throws away from finishing close to .500 in the conference.

 

[TheC]

Your negativism is remarkable, and it clearly shrouds a clear view. Here are two examples:

Who the heck are these great coaches in the Power 5 conferences? And tell me it’s not because they have great players.

NU has clearly been a very competitive team, just missing that Alpha player who can win 1:1 battles. (That’s way more than we can say about football the last 3 or so years. And look at our women’s team; not competitive at all against top teams after losing one player. Do you think Fitz and Coach Joe suck?).

Listen, I'm really not interested in engaging in a debate with you about whether Collins should stay or not. He is now the third longest tenured coach in the BIG and he has had only one season where the team was even competitive for any possible postseason play. I don't care if we are Northwestern. That's simply not good enough. Even Carmody had the team competing for the postseason well into the year multiple times.

He is 68-92 since that NCAA team. He is 26-71 in the BIG since then. The last four years has seen us in 14th, 13th, 12th and tied for 10th place. We are clearly not a very competitive team. If you want to give him credit because we don't get blown out in every game, that is fine. But I don't have to agree with that.

Ok... now I'm just doing what I said I didn't want to do. The point is, I'm not really discussing anymore whether he should stay or go. He should be gone after this season. I fully expect that to happen. I was just raising the discussion of what makes a coach successful. It isn't just that they are leading top programs. All those coaches were great coaches somewhere else before they got promoted to these top schools (except Jon Scheyer!)

 

[TheC]

In your view, what teams in the past 30 years were any good other than the tournament team? 9 B1G teams made the tournament last year and Providence won the Big East so it was a really tough schedule. I though we were a pretty good team by Northwestern standards (not something to be proud of). Some missed free throws away from finishing close to .500 in the conference.

I don't disagree that using Northwestern standards makes an awful lot acceptable. I guess the question is whether the infusion of major resources means we should no longer be grading on such a steep curve. The next coach may also fail at Northwestern because this job is impossible, but we don't know that yet. Collins has had 10 years now. 10 years!! The only thing we do know is that he is not the answer. If we don't move on, I feel like we are just admitting things will never get better. And recruits get that. Which is why it is more likely things will get even worse if we don't make a move.

 

[hoosboot]

Mc had an Indiana State commit early, which pushed down his rating. He held to NU after IU came calling. I think Lindsey had some post-junior injury issues, but did get that Iowa offer in addition to NU.

Those rankings make it all the more strange that CCC spent so much time chasing unlikely four-stars. NU’s best team ever was built on unheralded guys who came to NU to be the first. Let’s find others who want to make history, rather than just stand and shoot and be tall.

You've nailed what I think is the problem with the program currently. It's not scheme or any individual recruit. It's that recruiting focused more on getting highly ranked players instead of trying to piece together a team that fit and developed together. NU's top 50-150 players didn't fit together and develop as a unit/program as compared to Iowa's and Purdue's recruits. The NCAA squad was a team that played better than the sum of its part would indicate. I don't think you can say the same thing about the subsequent teams.

At least that's my take on it.

 

[wildcatpn]

I don't disagree that using Northwestern standards makes an awful lot acceptable. I guess the question is whether the infusion of major resources means we should no longer be grading on such a steep curve. The next coach may also fail at Northwestern because this job is impossible, but we don't know that yet. Collins has had 10 years now. 10 years!! The only thing we do know is that he is not the answer. If we don't move on, I feel like we are just admitting things will never get better. And recruits get that. Which is why it is more likely things will get even worse if we don't make a move.

And if we don't move on recruiting will continue to be affected like this last class. In my opinion it's NCAA tourney this season or he should be gone. And like i've said before, I don't think he's a bad coach. But you can't just keep accepting such poor results over and over. NU has now proven they will invest in the revenue programs which I think means they expect wins. Collins has not delivered that.

 

[DaCat]

247 composites

Boo was #327
Chase was not even ranked
Ryan Young was #348

Only active player that, so far, can be argued is as good or better than these guys, while being a top #150 recruit, is Pete Nance.

For reference:
McIntosh #214
Pardon #300
Lindsey #281

On the surface, Collins seems to be a good recruiter. The results tell a different story.

 

[NUCat320]

Who is going to be a fan for 40 years for a team that stinks. Anything is possible

How’d you choose this program, this year? A tuition check, I imagine?

 

[clarificationcat]

I don't disagree that using Northwestern standards makes an awful lot acceptable. I guess the question is whether the infusion of major resources means we should no longer be grading on such a steep curve. The next coach may also fail at Northwestern because this job is impossible, but we don't know that yet. Collins has had 10 years now. 10 years!! The only thing we do know is that he is not the answer. If we don't move on, I feel like we are just admitting things will never get better. And recruits get that. Which is why it is more likely things will get even worse if we don't make a move.

I don't disagree that he needs to go. We needed to make the tournament last year and we didn't and it looks like the program is in decline from a talent perspective. I was more reacting to your statement that only one of his teams was ever "any good". If the standard is making the NCAA tournament or being on the bubble, then I agree. Otherwise, I thought that last year's team was good (some of the results aside) and the team the year before the tournament was pretty good (considering that Law had to sit out the season). I thought he did a good to very good job of coaching his first four seasons.

I don't really take anything from making the NIT. We still finished below .500 in the conference during those seasons, which is all that really matters. Carmody raised the bar but the results of those teams in conference were not much better than last year. Collins got the team to the tournament in 4 years and showed it's achievable. Hopefully, the next coach can build on that. Or, better yet, this team shocks the world (and me) and makes the tournament and Collins uses the momentum to get a great recruiting class.

 

[ballerog711]

We like hoops and one of my kids friends attends. Had seen Hungar in High school and liked his game.

Nu is the boston college of the Midwest just not as screwed up.

 

[ballerog711]

Use to like the northfield program in New england but they just changed coaches

 

[SDakaGordie]

Listen, I'm really not interested in engaging in a debate with you about whether Collins should stay or not. He is now the third longest tenured coach in the BIG and he has had only one season where the team was even competitive for any possible postseason play. I don't care if we are Northwestern. That's simply not good enough. Even Carmody had the team competing for the postseason well into the year multiple times.

He is 68-92 since that NCAA team. He is 26-71 in the BIG since then. The last four years has seen us in 14th, 13th, 12th and tied for 10th place. We are clearly not a very competitive team. If you want to give him credit because we don't get blown out in every game, that is fine. But I don't have to agree with that.

Ok... now I'm just doing what I said I didn't want to do. The point is, I'm not really discussing anymore whether he should stay or go. He should be gone after this season. I fully expect that to happen. I was just raising the discussion of what makes a coach successful. It isn't just that they are leading top programs. All those coaches were great coaches somewhere else before they got promoted to these top schools (except Jon Scheyer!)

Thanks for a balanced post, unlike many of your prior ones with highly emotional rants.

I do give him more credit than just wins/loss record. (We certainly do for Fitz). We are different; there’s no getting around that, so it’s hard to not “care”. If we hold Collins to a pure, standalone stat that does not adjust for this difference, like W/L, we are inherently misjudging his ability. This will likely mean that, if we put another coach in here, he/she is very unlikely to do better. Our history supports that and will continue to. Until we become like other schools and he has no obstacles, we can’t truly make a fair comparison of his ability.

Unfortunately, misguided popular sentiment will likely be the reason for the death of Collins’ career at NU.

 

[CappyNU]

Thanks for a balanced post, unlike many of your prior ones with highly emotional rants.

Just pretend that TheC in game threads and TheC in all other threads are two entirely different people, and you'll be good.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Fitz is 65-76 in games against Big Ten opponents. 8 seasons with winning records against the Big Ten. Ten bowl games in 17 seasons.

Collins is 57 - 113 in games against Big Ten opponents. 1 season with a winning record of the 9 he has been coach. One post season tournament.

On top of those vast differences, Fitgerald was a star player for Northwestern. Collins.... was not.

 

[vee4three]

Thanks for a balanced post, unlike many of your prior ones with highly emotional rants.

I do give him more credit than just wins/loss record. (We certainly do for Fitz). We are different; there’s no getting around that, so it’s hard to not “care”. If we hold Collins to a pure, standalone stat that does not adjust for this difference, like W/L, we are inherently misjudging his ability. This will likely mean that, if we put another coach in here, he/she is very unlikely to do better. Our history supports that and will continue to. Until we become like other schools and he has no obstacles, we can’t truly make a fair comparison of his ability.

Unfortunately, misguided popular sentiment will likely be the reason for the death of Collins’ career at NU.

Collins is already graded on a curve for Northwestern being different, though – it’s year 10 of his tenure, and they’ve been to one (very glorious) NCAA tournament. That doesn’t fly at basically any other power conference program. Sure, it can technically get worse. But it’s not unreasonable to aspire to be what, say, Rutgers has become under Pikiell. At this point, I think a coaching change is more likely to achieve that. And that doesn’t imply that Collins is a bad coach.

I don’t buy the argument that Dr. Gragg’s public comments substantially hampered recruiting. Collins is only signed through 2025 and has had five straight losing seasons…a prospect that can’t figure out he’s on the hot seat likely isn’t getting through admissions, anyway. And if Dr. Gragg had a heavy hand in forcing the changes on the coaching staff, then good on him.

Let’s not ignore the positives in place now that previous coaches haven’t enjoyed. University leadership seems more invested in athletic success than ever. There are state-of-the-art facilities, including a scoreboard that no longer looks like it carries Ms. Pac-Man. Of course there are still challenges. The Big Ten is tough, but it’s a lot tougher when you lose *four games* against the other four teams that missed the tourney, like last year. Admissions shrinks the talent pool and reduces the margin for error, but they’ve also let in a handful of transfers lately, and it didn’t seem like they were to blame for two 5-star recruits who were former ball boys going elsewhere. Each year I bet you could field multiple squads capable of earning at-large NCAA bids using only players who could get into Northwestern.

Maybe the curve can be a little less generous?

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I'm not smart enough to figure out why some coaches succeed and some coaches fail. But clearly, there is a difference. Some coaches can take unheralded recruits and develop them into really good college players. Whether that's teaching, development, motivation, identification of that "it" factor when recruiting, whatever.... Some coaches can assemble a bunch of average pieces to make the whole better than the sum of it's parts. Again, is that scheme? Motivation? Development? I just don't know. Some coaches can take a roster of highly recruited players and produce a mediocre team. What are they doing wrong? I'm not sure, but it is usually easy to tell the good coaches from the bad.

I can't tell you exactly what Collins does wrong, but his teams just haven't been any good except for that one magical year. And at the risk of getting slammed here, I don't think this year's team is very good at all and I fear the upcoming BIG season will bear that out. (And I really hope one of you will get to quote this in March to laugh at me). At the end of the day, you are what your record says you are.

A good coach is worth at least 5 points per game, maybe as many as 10, versus a bad coach.
with the same roster of players...

Selecting his lineups, teaching fundamentals, building the confidence of his players, figuring out who plays better with whom, scouting the opponent, figuring out their weaknesses and how to exploit them, figuring out the best ways to counter an opponents strengths, designing an offense, teaching the players how to execute it, teaching defense, all the in-game decisions, running specific plays duirng the course of a game, working the refs for calls, keeping the players under control and energized, providing emotional support when needed..... there are so many things that, in aggregate, determine success.

 

[clarificationcat]

Fitz is 65-76 in games against Big Ten opponents. 8 seasons with winning records against the Big Ten. Ten bowl games in 17 seasons.

Collins is 57 - 113 in games against Big Ten opponents. 1 season with a winning record of the 9 he has been coach. One post season tournament.

On top of those vast differences, Fitgerald was a star player for Northwestern. Collins.... was not.

Football and basketball are apples and oranges. The conference is not nearly as good in football. There is a much larger pool of players that we can recruit and less schools to compete with. And development plays a much bigger part in football. It’s much easier to project basketball players than football players. Not many 3 stars make the NBA.

Fitz has earned more time. I agree. But there are very good reasons why we’ve had one winning record in the conference in the past 50 years.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Football and basketball are apples and oranges. The conference is not nearly as good in football. There is a much larger pool of players that we can recruit and less schools to compete with. And development plays a much bigger part in football. It’s much easier to project basketball players than football players. Not many 3 stars make the NBA.

Fitz has earned more time. I agree. But there are very good reasons why we’ve had one winning record in the conference in the past 50 years.

I think Fitz faces a bigger challenge than Collins.
Collins, quite literally, has to recruit 2 good players a year.
And with the new transfer rules, the situation is even more in favor of the basketball coach.

(side note - the admission standards are the same, the lame fan base is the same and the attractiveness of the university is the same)

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

A good coach is worth at least 5 points per game, maybe as many as 10, versus a bad coach.
with the same roster of players...

Selecting his lineups, teaching fundamentals, building the confidence of his players, figuring out who plays better with whom, scouting the opponent, figuring out their weaknesses and how to exploit them, figuring out the best ways to counter an opponents strengths, designing an offense, teaching the players how to execute it, teaching defense, all the in-game decisions, running specific plays duirng the course of a game, working the refs for calls, keeping the players under control and energized, providing emotional support when needed..... there are so many things that, in aggregate, determine success.

5-10 points a game. Wow. If that is the case I would say colleges are way underpaid.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I think Fitz faces a bigger challenge than Collins.
Collins, quite literally, has to recruit 2 good players a year.
And with the new transfer rules, the situation is even more in favor of the basketball coach.

(side note - the admission standards are the same, the lame fan base is the same and the attractiveness of the university is the same)

Is the history the same? You just not easy to land 2 studs with NU’s history. How about the overall college experience of AA players at NU? Does NU socially provide a comfortable environment when they seem to have a limited population of AA students that come from similar backgrounds? I don’t know the answer to that, but it is worth consideration.

I never bought the argument that it is easier in basketball. In fact, I would argue Coaching is more impactful at the football level than at the basketball level in college sports. Look at our football team once we lost Coach Hank. Elite defense to a team that can’t stop SIU. How about Illinois with Lovie? Bert comes in and gets two excellent coordinators and turn from a laughingstock to winning games. If CCC was Coaching Illinois as an example, I bet a large sum of money that he leads them to the tourney and likely a high seed. Talent wins in basketball.

I don’t feel CCC will be back. Dead man walking in my view. I expect NU to work hard and compete but still lose the majority of their B1G games.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Collins has proven (again) that he is a competent coach, which is way above the many negative opinions of this board and the Twitter-sphere. I’m not really sure how an opinion of his coaching would change a lot from now through the end of the season, as our main risks to achieving more then we did last year are injuries and fatigue, given our limited bench.

We can get good open shots - we just can’t make them. That’s the talent level - not the coaching level. We can resurrect the conversations about his recruiting ability, but it’s still arguably the best we’ve seen at NU, despite our continued limitations relative to the other teams. Just look at how many of guys he coached are still playing in pro leagues.

He has always had a relatively good defense, and the addition of Lowery appears to have brought it to an elite level that we have NEVER seen before in our lives. The omission of Nance and Young and Kopp and our elite defense are not uncorrelated.

He ain’t perfect, but none are. He’s more than a solid coach. I wish we could say that about Gragg in his position - he’s off to a really bad start when it comes to his observations about, and actions toward, Collins. And that is unfairly impacting Collins’ ability to perform.

The fact that the staff figured out the ONLY way they have to potentially beat a good team is on the defensive end is exactly what Coaches are supposed to do. For all his faults, CCC should get credit for emphasizing that defensive mindset when we have VERY sub-par offensive weapons.

 

[Hungry Jack]

My son, age 12, is in his second year of organized basketball. He did a few camps, but basically learned by playing with school buds. He's done well without any real coaching. Watching his games, it's maddening to realize that a bit of coaching (their coach is a staff teacher at his small private school) would really help them, especially with offensive sets. But I think the coach does little about this.

They have 2 very good guards, and Little Hungry has enough size and moxie to work inside. I and a few other dads are on them constantly to run pick and rolls, and use my son to set high ball screens to get open looks (both guards can hit 3s given a bit of space). I think they would clean up if they did this more often. They are 7-2 so I cannot complain too much, but more coaching could really make them better.

 

[TheC]

My son, age 12, is in his second year of organized basketball. He did a few camps, but basically learned by playing with school buds. He's done well without any real coaching. Watching his games, it's maddening to realize that a bit of coaching (their coach is a staff teacher at his small private school) would really help them, especially with offensive sets. But I think the coach does little about this.

They have 2 very good guards, and Little Hungry has enough size and moxie to work inside. I and a few other dads are on them constantly to run pick and rolls, and use my son to set high ball screens to get open looks (both guards can hit 3s given a bit of space). I think they would clean up if they did this more often. They are 7-2 so I cannot complain too much, but more coaching could really make them better.

There is nothing more frustrating and a greater test of personal restraint and character than when you know you know more about the game than your kid's coach.