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Fr. top-100 4-star Georgetown 6-8 235 PF Agau to grad/transfer w. 2 years left

FeliSilvestris

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Oct 22, 2004
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Georgetown's 6-8 235 PF Akoy Agau (<--) will graduate and transfer (<--) with 2 years of eligibility left. He averaged 4.5 points and 4.3 rebounds in 15 minutes per game last season. He may have some range as a 'big', since he took 14 3P's, although only hit 21% of them. Excellent (85%) at the FT line. Out of HS, he was a top 100 4-star recruit, who originally enrolled at Louisville and missed his sophomore season b/c of a torn ACL. No sure of his academic profile.
 
Can he play guard?
I'd be surprised if he did. But as stated elsewhere, NU expects to have 5 guards for next season (assuming Gaines can provide some help) to cover 2 positions, which seems at least adequate. Only 6 players to cover the other 3 positions (sF, PF and C) seems much more uncomfortable to me, especially considering 2 of them are coming back from major injury.
 
hmmmm, not a bad prospect. Sounds somewhat like Skelly size wise and skill wise. A few more pounds, a little higher free throw percentage, a little lower from 3... I wouldn't mind a full roster next year but we should admit we really don't need anybody (at least not much). 5 more fouls (or more size) in the post or one more shooter off the bench is about all we could possibly need, although technically we are losing a starting 4. Don't expect a lot of interest.
 
I wouldn't mind a full roster next year but we should admit we really don't need anybody (at least not much).
Why not? Do we need to be reminded of "injuries" when two of our 6 "bigs" lost last season for that reason (which may or may not have affected their game)? Another one lost the preceding season, for the same reason. How many of the 6 bodies to cover sF, PF and C will lose significant playing time this upcoming season (possibly the entire season)?
 
I'm happy with whoever (if anybody) the staff gets. I have to say, though, that I really see it this way: 4 guys to cover two post positions (Benson, Pardon, Falzon, and Skelly), four guys to cover two wing spots (Law, Lindsey, Rap and Gaines) and three guys to cover the PG (Mac, Ash and Brown).Of course some of those guys can swing between positions, too. We've been playing two and three guys short the last couple of years due to injury and JV's scholarship not being available, and we know that no coach typically plays more than a 9-man rotation. So, BARRING INJURY (there, I said it), I'm thinking NU is in pretty good shape right now.
 
4 guys to cover two post positions (Benson, Pardon, Falzon, and Skelly), four guys to cover two wing spots (Law, Lindsey, Rap and Gaines) and three guys to cover the PG (Mac, Ash and Brown)..
You are certainly entitled to view things your way. But just because you call a player a "wing" doesn't make him acquire the skill set to be effective playing both SG and sF. Some players are called wings because they do have those skills. Not every relatively tall guard can play EFFECTIVELY as a sF. Just like not every sF can be effective as a shooting guard (of course he can try if asked, but won't necessarily do well). A natural SG may have difficulties guarding opposing sF's, just like a natural sF may possibly lack (for example) the quickness to effectively defend opposing guards.
Best I can tell most everyone calls Lindsey a SG (not a sF, not a wing, not a "combo guard"). He was recruited as such, and seems to play as one. He is NOT a wing. He's a guard. Equivalently for Law, as a small forward (as opposed to a wing or a guard). The positions follow the respective skill set.
 
Then why does Collins call Scottie and Vic "Wings"? Numerous interviews last season caught CCC calling these guys Wings, not SG or Combo Guards.
I haven't listened those interviews, and hence can't comment. You can however look at the recruiting and current profiles of those players at mayor sites and see how they are called. To me for Lindsey to play as a sF seems a bit more plausible than for Law to play as a guard. Either one would do his best if asked for whatever reasons, though.
 
We need some BigTen size beef to bang with the BigTen bodies. Pardon and Benson not enough. Sign the guy if he can play!
 
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I haven't listened those interviews, and hence can't comment. You can however look at the recruiting and current profiles of those players at mayor sites and see how they are called. To me for Lindsey to play as a sF seems a bit more plausible than for Law to play as a guard. Either one would do his best if asked for whatever reasons, though.
Note the NU press release on AJ Turner today -- he's a "wing" -- not a small forward or a two guard. Wings generally play interchangeable spots on the floor in the offense. Defensive assignments are determined by best initial matchups but in today's game switching is mandatory and the more long, athletic players you have at every position the better off you are.

The terms "small forward" and "shooting guard" are anachronisms in today's game, which requires players who can shoot the three from "the wing" and the baseline, guard multiple positions and handle the ball in the pick and roll.
 
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Note the NU press release on AJ Turner today -- he's a "wing" -- not a small forward or a two guard. Wings generally play interchangeable spots on the floor in the offense. Defensive assignments are determined by best initial matchups but in today's game switching is mandatory and the more long, athletic players you have at every position the better off you are.

The terms "small forward" and "shooting guard" are anachronisms
The same release describes him as "a 6-foot-7 forward". You'd have to ask the NU coaching staff what exactly do they mean by "a wing". It may be something other than he can play as a traditional guard.

For the purpose of this discussion (depth chart, needs, etc) the key is whether a player can EFFECTIVELY perform a similar role as another (however they are called). Even if Law and Lindsey are both called "wing" under certain basketball terminology, if a Lindsey-type player cannot effectively replace a Law-type player (and/or vice-versa) they are in fact different types of players (however they are called). That's a key.

If SG and sF are "anachronisms" it seems the vast majority of reputable basketball sites are yet to "catch up". For them, Lindsey-types are still SG and Law-types continue to be sF. I suppose they have their reasons to use the traditional terminology. So do I.
 
The same release describes him as "a 6-foot-7 forward". You'd have to ask the NU coaching staff what exactly do they mean by "a wing". It may be something other than he can play as a traditional guard.

For the purpose of this discussion (depth chart, needs, etc) the key is whether a player can EFFECTIVELY perform a similar role as another (however they are called). Even if Law and Lindsey are both called "wing" under certain basketball terminology, if a Lindsey-type player cannot effectively replace a Law-type player (and/or vice-versa) they are in fact different types of players (however they are called). That's a key.

If SG and sF are "anachronisms" it seems the vast majority of reputable basketball sites are yet to "catch up". For them, Lindsey-types are still SG and Law-types continue to be sF. I suppose they have their reasons to use the traditional terminology. So do I.
And of course a Lindsey type player can effectively replace a Law type player because they are playing essentially the same position in NU's system. The wing roles are largely interchangeable. Do different players bring different skills to those roles? Of course, each player is different. But I'd bet if you asked CC to break down his roster by position, he'd give you a break down by post players, wings and points.
 
And of course a Lindsey type player can effectively replace a Law type player because they are playing essentially the same position in NU's system....I'd bet if you asked CC to break down his roster by position, he'd give you a break down by post players, wings and points.
First, 50% of the time (roughly) BkB players actually play D. Recently, NU has been primarily playing m2m D, so the NU D scheme is simply to ask each player to guard a specific opponent. I am pretty sure (correct me if I am wrong) that under most game situations Lindsey (and similar) guards (no pun intended) an opposing player that in the traditional terminology that most major sites use is called a guard, whereas Law guards one that most view as a small forward. Would you bet against that? I'm pretty sure I'd win that bet.

Secondly, actual stats (including offense) are consistent with the claim that Law actually plays closer to a traditional sF, while Lindsey's actual role is close to that of a (traditional) SG. Both averaged slightly over 30m, and are physically comparable (Scottie a bit shorter but also a bit heavier which makes him more compact, which helps, for example, establishing position for rebounds). If they were playing very similar roles, key stats would be very similar. Are they? Not really.

Reb: Law pulled down almost 6 pg, whereas Lindsey was under 4, with Law pulling down almost three-times as many (300% more) OR. You may claim that Law just happens to be a MUCH better rebounder, for whatever reasons. A more plausible explanation is that Law simply tends to play closer to the basket, which gives him a far better chance of pulling down Rebs.
3P: Law had a higher success rate, but Lindsey actually took far more (5.6 vs 4.1), which is also consistent with Lindsey playing farther from the basket (as a SG would compared to a sF).
BLK: Law had significantly more blocks (0.5 vs 0.3), again, consistent with the sF vs SG roles.
A: OTOH, Lindsey had significantly more assists (2.3 vs 1.8).
And so on.

The actual stats support strongly the claim that, however their roles are called, Law actually did play the role of a sF (or very close to that), whereas Lindsey's role was (very close to) that of a SG. The traditional terminology seems to work well in this case.
 
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First, 50% of the time (roughly) BkB players actually play D. Recently, NU has been primarily playing m2m D, so the NU D scheme is simply to ask each player to guard a specific opponent. I am pretty sure (correct me if I am wrong) that under most game situations Lindsey (and similar) guards (no pun intended) an opposing player that in the traditional terminology that most major sites use is called a guard, whereas Law guards one that most view as a small forward. Would you bet against that? I'm pretty sure I'd win that bet.

Secondly, actual stats (including offense) are consistent with the claim that Law actually plays closer to a traditional sF, while Lindsey's actual role is close to that of a (traditional) SG. Both averaged slightly over 30m, and are physically comparable (Scottie a bit shorter but also a bit heavier which makes him more compact, which helps, for example, establishing position for rebounds). If they were playing very similar roles, key stats would be very similar. Are they? Not really.

Reb: Law pulled down almost 6 pg, whereas Lindsey was under 4, with Law pulling down almost three-times as many (300% more) OR. You may claim that Law just happens to be a MUCH better rebounder, for whatever reasons. A more plausible explanation is that Law simply tends to play closer to the basket, which gives him a far better chance of pulling down Rebs.
3P: Law had a higher success rate, but Lindsey actually took far more (5.6 vs 4.1), which is also consistent with Lindsey playing farther from the basket (as a SG would compared to a sF).
BLK: Law had significantly more blocks (0.5 vs 0.3), again, consistent with the sF vs SG roles.
A: OTOH, Lindsey had significantly more assists (2.3 vs 1.8).
And so on.

The actual stats support strongly the claim that, however their roles are called, Law actually did play the role of a sF (or very close to that), whereas Lindsey's role was (very close to) that of a SG. The traditional terminology seems to work well in this case.

You really just like argument for the sake of argument, don't you?
 
Bingo. Takes contrary positions just for the sake of debate. Very tired.
If you actually point out something wrong with my argument you'd contribute to the debate. Otherwise you are simply being a pest and trolling. Find yourself something useful to do with your time.
 
If you actually point out something wrong with my argument you'd contribute to the debate. Otherwise you are simply being a pest and trolling. Find yourself something useful to do with your time.

The bigger question is why the "argument" or "debate" even exists in the first place. Mostly seems like you've just decided to argue for no apparent reason.
 
If you actually point out something wrong with my argument you'd contribute to the debate. Otherwise you are simply being a pest and trolling. Find yourself something useful to do with your time.

Yeah but nobody wants to do that especially over and over when they think that is going to be the outcome.
 
Regarding the wingy thingy argument, Law had the job more often than not of guarding the opponent's most dangerous perimeter player, whether it was Melo Trimble, Peter Jok, Derrick Walton, or Bronson Koenig. Check out some old games if you have them. We also switched on defense, sometimes completely without regard to position. Recall the Pardon on Derrick Walton moments against U of M (terrible moments, for the most part). Wing is not an overly vague label, especially for a player with flexibility on defense.
 
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Regarding the wingy thingy argument, Law had the job more often than not of guarding the opponent's most dangerous perimeter player
Nothing wrong with using the terminology "wing" as a subgroup that includes SG's and sF's. You can also refer to "back court" players (or guards) vs "front court" players (C+forwards). Using those categories make some sense because the mentioned positions respectively share SOME common attributes.
The mistake that some are making is to assume that when players belong to the same sub-group or category they are (mostly) exchangeable, as some have been arguing explicitly, or implicitly (by assuming that a SG can be an effective backup of a sF and vice-versa). A PG and a SG are both guards (obviously), but not every SG will do reasonably well as a PG (although some might, which is why the term "combo guard" is sometimes used). Likewise an excellent PG may not be a reasonable SG backup (if he isn't a great shooter, even if he does everything else exceptionally well). Same for a SG playing as sF (may possibly lack height/strength), or a sF playing as SG (may lack quickness, or penetration ability, etc). Similarly with PF playing as C and vice-versa; yes they may try, but may not do well enough, which would put their team at a disadvantage.
A college team has enough scholarships to aim to have at least two players at each of the 5 traditional positions. That should be the goal.
 
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EvanstonCat brought up THIS ARTICLE (<--).
Pretty bad article if you asked me. Seems like his source (tying Agau to NU) is this very thread!
Furthermore, he implies that Agau's apparent interest in an MBA is a good thing, because of Kellogg's rep. In fact, it may be terrible, since it seems extremely rare for KGSM to admit students directly from college, and we don't even know how strong a student he is, and how high his standardized test scores are.
OTOH, as discussed above, NU BkB's only upcoming Fr is a guard, joining 4 others to cover the two 2 guard spots. The fact that he isn't a guard is actually good, not bad as the article implies.
 
EvanstonCat brought up THIS ARTICLE (<--).
Pretty bad article if you asked me. Seems like his source (tying Agau to NU) is this very thread!
Furthermore, he implies that Agau's apparent interest in an MBA is a good thing, because of Kellogg's rep. In fact, it may be terrible, since it seems extremely rare for KGSM to admit students directly from college, and we don't even know how strong a student he is, and how high his standardized test scores are.
OTOH, as discussed above, NU BkB's only upcoming Fr is a guard, joining 4 others to cover the two 2 guard spots. The fact that he isn't a guard is actually good, not bad as the article implies.
Sorry but numbers don't always tell the whole story. Mac, runs the NU offense and if he goes down and there is not a grad transfer type PG on the roster the season could go down quickly. Ash and Brown haven't shown PG abilities, Gaines is an unknown and Lindsey is no Mac. Having said that, while I feel the need to add a guard, I go along with filling the 13th schlorship, regardless of position.
 
Sorry but numbers don't always tell the whole story. Mac, runs the NU offense and if he goes down and there is not a grad transfer type PG on the roster the season could go down quickly. Ash and Brown haven't shown PG abilities, Gaines is an unknown and Lindsey is no Mac. Having said that, while I feel the need to add a guard, I go along with filling the 13th schlorship, regardless of position.
But you can also express reservations about the big/biggish players. Law has no real scholarship backup (calling a SG 'wing' doesn't mean he would do well replacing Law). Falzon and R.I. are both coming from a season they (mostly) missed because of injury (who knows how that has affected their game) and that would have been RI's first season. Benson has shown potential in his only season, but still averaged only 2 pts, 1.6 Rebs in 8min. Skelly is certainly experienced, yet only averaged 5.9 pts 3.7Rebs in 17 min (not bad at all, but far from stellar).
That said, a case can be made for a B1G-ready grad transfer PG. Unfortunately there aren't many left (see THIS POST). Small-conference ones may be available, but it is extremely difficult to project how they would do facing B1G-level competition.
In all the staff may just take the best available qualifying player. At the end of the day, no one knows how injury will affect the various positions.
 
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The key selling point of SMU was playing in their intimate Moody Coliseum
 
Yeah, Moody seats 7,000 so he didn't fancy spending his final season in the (mostly empty) 18,500 seat Allstate Arena!;)
If/when the Wildcats challenge for a Big Ten title the all-time NU attendance record might be set at All State.
 
If/when the Wildcats challenge for a Big Ten title the all-time NU attendance record might be set at All State.

Not saying much, would imply attendance of >10,653 (set in the 1956 NCAA Finals game between San Francisco and Iowa) or just over half of Allstate Arena capacity! ;)
 
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Expecting a few sell outs at Allstate this winter, should be quite an atmosphere when it happens. Can't wait for season to begin!
 
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