The interior advantage that allowed 6'6" Lundy to dunk right over Nicholson? Did your seats not allow you to see that Nicholson had hands of granite which prevented him from handling the ball competently and putting up some of the worst layup attempts I've ever seen?
Game thread for Penn State vs. NU
- Thread starter mshelton33
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Buie had so many assists and points offense off his iso. Buie against #10 was a mismatch you want to exploit. Have to box out and get rebounds.
Agreed, Verhoven caught a nice pass from Boo and converted, was active on the boards. Played good defense. Had no problem with his game.
Matt might be tired, has logged a lot of minutes for the first time in his career this year. Penn St is a small team and he should have owned the boards from the beginning, he continues to improve and work hard.
How about Berry, I raised concerns about his shooting and people threw out the 39% from 3. On the broadcast the mentioned that he used to be 39% and how was in the low 20's this year. He has been great on defense and busts his ass in the court, but his main job is to be a shooter. Every team jn the Big10 has a shooter they can count on but NU.
Teams have figured out Chase, needs to go back jn the lab and have something for the tournament. Maybe work a hesi then cross back and go left. Most of his shot attempts are going right and teams are jamming him.
Barnhizor is going to be good. Needs a quicker first step.
Matt did not play well, Verhoeven did nice things. But I still can't understand how folks disregard Matt not playing. It was like saying "hey, you guys are better than us, so we have to really re-adjust or we stand no chance against you. We will give away our strengths because you are better".
You don't leave Buie out of a very very large chunk of the game if he is struggling. You re-insert and re-evaluate.
Had the dude gotten a rebound late that would have tipped the scale, playing horrible or not, we'd be here full of joy.
It's the old tendency of seeing games as static, that one decision does not impact things. That if you just removed Verhoeven and put Matt, everything else remains the same. Ludicrous.
And, yes, we probably would still lose the game. We were horrible, horrible.
Now the more pressing question. Do you sleep? Are you a vampire? Do you work second shift?
You are arguing with basketball instincts on par with my wife's. Who is a "go sports team" type of gal.
You make a decent point. It's worth discussing. It was a bit odd.
But the babbling Nicholson discussion out here shades the fact that he's a replacement-level B10 big - on a good night. So when he's not playing well and we have the rare occurrence that TV is playing a bit out of his mind, the difference is a coin flip.
If you would have told me that Penn State would have scored 61 points in regulation I would have taken that in a heartbeat. While I did not like our strategy on D in the 2nd half especially the last 6 or 7 minutes we still should have won this game.
Sometimes your offense has to win you a game and that really is not asking much when all you have to do is score in the high 60’s. We had quite a few great scoring opportunities in close and we just did not make them. Simple as that.
On the BTN after the game Rapheal Davis and Weber were talking and at the end of their discussion of the game Weber said it really is a simple game. Make shots.
We have to have Berry or Audige step up and get the ball in the basket. I pick those two out because they have the talent to be a much more consistent scorer than Beran. Robbie is what he is he can score a little bit but he just seems to disappear on offense for long stretches. All those guys I mentioned bust their butt on D, however if we want to have a nice run in the BT tourney and win a couple of games in the dance at least 1 and preferably 2 Of Berry Audige or Beran have to start producing on the offensive side.
Sometimes your offense has to win you a game and that really is not asking much when all you have to do is score in the high 60’s. We had quite a few great scoring opportunities in close and we just did not make them. Simple as that.
On the BTN after the game Rapheal Davis and Weber were talking and at the end of their discussion of the game Weber said it really is a simple game. Make shots.
We have to have Berry or Audige step up and get the ball in the basket. I pick those two out because they have the talent to be a much more consistent scorer than Beran. Robbie is what he is he can score a little bit but he just seems to disappear on offense for long stretches. All those guys I mentioned bust their butt on D, however if we want to have a nice run in the BT tourney and win a couple of games in the dance at least 1 and preferably 2 Of Berry Audige or Beran have to start producing on the offensive side.
I can see your point, but I don't agree with this. For me, there are clearly 3 guys above the rest. But, after that, I would not trade Matt for Nebraska's Walker, and he is a decent player. Same for WI's Crawl. There are several young bigs that have a higher ceiling than Matt. We just saw two of them yesterday in the MD/OSU game. But, right now, I'd rather have Matt.
He is what he is, he gives you what he gives you. While it will be maddening to see him not being able to finish the most basic short range bunnies, he is very good with other things.
The issue is how you use your players. Yesterday, CC felt he needed to match smaller with smaller for some reason. And bizarrely not by doing away with a 5, but just sitting down Matt. Verhoevan has, IMO, one advantage over Matt, he finishes marginally better around the rim (except if it's a dunk). Everything else is, in my mind, in Matt's favor.
Again, don't think we'd win with Matt out there. And Verhoeven played decently. But who knows, a couple of offensive rebounds by Matt and he could be a hero.
And again, basketball does not work by take Verhoeven out, put Matt in, and as Matt was playing poorly and Verhoeven was playing decently, we were better off with Verhoeven.
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The book is most definitely out on stopping NU's offense. Stop Boo and make someone else step up. Chase stepped up against Purdue, but otherwise there is not enough stepping up of any non-Boo player. Barnhizer almost made up for it yesterday, but not quite.
In contrast there's Pickett. NU "stopped" him, and he just smartly found open teammates who got it done, plain and simple.
Look, I think Nicholson has largely been great this year, well beyond what I expected. But I don't think he makes the block that TV did when Brooks was able to throw it off the PSU guy on the ground. Torvik's Defensive Box Plus/Minus stat had TV at 5.0, 2nd-best on the team, vs Nicholson's -2.2. It also didn't help that Beran and Berry had terrible games, and Audige was a black hole on offense.
We lost this game because we shot 25 mid-range jumpers and made 9 of them (Buie's floaters counted as mid-range, I guess), and only made 3-13 layups against a team that played a total of 22 out of 225 minutes with players taller than 6'6".
We played Pickett extremely well. Held him to his fewest points in a game against a P6 opponent this year. Unfortunately, as I had mentioned in scouting them, he is the best passer in the Big Ten and showed it last night. Funk had his best game in a month, Wynter unfortunately seems to have figured out how to play in the Big Ten the last four games and killed us. I should've known things would go sideways when Lundy hit that ridiculous banked-in 3 at the start of the game.
I also felt that we got the short end of the Larry Scirotto stick last night, which is just a terrible thing for him to do to his alma mater. /s
Edit: It's also frankly ridiculous that Buie went 1-7 on layups last night and shot 0 free throws, the first time that has happened in a Big Ten game this year, meanwhile Verhoeven clearly blocks a 3-pointer but brushes the fingertips of the shooter and gets called for a 3-shot foul.
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This! This board can be so predictable. TVH played a very good game. Probably no worse than our third best player. Big Matt did nothing in his brief time. Of course, it is possible he explodes a few Nicholbomb’s and becomes a defensive force later in the game, but how about flashing something in the 10 minutes you are out there. Anything. Again, like you, Big Matt has been much more than I expected, he is a fine player when the match up’s work. It’s not like he is going to drop 20 points on PSU because their tallest guy is 6’6. I certainly would have been calling out CCC if he sat a hot TVH.
It’s pretty simple, if we can make shots REASONABLY well, we can win against almost anyone. Chase was brutal last night, Berry and Beran didn’t do nearly enough. Boo is a marked man, someone else has to step up when he is forced to give up the ball. Barney did, but he was on an island by himself.
TVH was the third best player for NU last night in my mind. He also might be the best at knowing his role outside of Buie. He had a lot of big time rebounds and had some nice defensive plays for us. What makes him such a valuable player is how different he is from Nicholson. He was perfect for a game like yesterday. I love what Big Matt can bring but his limitations are shown against a smaller lineup like PSU.
Big Matt didn’t have the mobility on defense and TVH was playing great defensively. The height advantage Big Matt brings would have been awesome if he could score in the post. He’s not that type of player.
I don’t agree that he’s a replacement level big. He’s a very good post defender and mobile for a 7 footer. He’s a solid B1G center. One of the better post defenders.
When the tallest player on the other team is 6’6” you’re not going to do much post up defense. TVH made some plays out there Matt was not going to make. In order to sacrifice the mobility on defense Matt needs to take advantage of the height advantage offensively.
I understand the “make the opponent adjust to you mentality” but Matt isn’t dominant enough to force that this year. We made them adjust to Buie offensively and Barnhizer was the only other person picking up the slack. Frankly need more than that. Need Beran or Berry or Audige to score the ball.
The lineups and minutes especially at the 5 are not why NU lost this game. The brutal offense from anyone not named Buie and Barnhizer is. TVH, Barnhizer, and Buie played well. Audige did well defensively but offensively poorly. Somebody has to step up if NU wants to win more games.
I don’t agree that he’s a replacement level big. He’s a very good post defender and mobile for a 7 footer. He’s a solid B1G center. One of the better post defenders.
When the tallest player on the other team is 6’6” you’re not going to do much post up defense. TVH made some plays out there Matt was not going to make. In order to sacrifice the mobility on defense Matt needs to take advantage of the height advantage offensively.
I understand the “make the opponent adjust to you mentality” but Matt isn’t dominant enough to force that this year. We made them adjust to Buie offensively and Barnhizer was the only other person picking up the slack. Frankly need more than that. Need Beran or Berry or Audige to score the ball.
The lineups and minutes especially at the 5 are not why NU lost this game. The brutal offense from anyone not named Buie and Barnhizer is. TVH, Barnhizer, and Buie played well. Audige did well defensively but offensively poorly. Somebody has to step up if NU wants to win more games.
Agree with you and PPD. TVH played a good ballgame last night. Got some offensive rebounds nice defensive plays an all around good solid game. Can't take anything away from him.
As far as Matt is concerned he is getting on the job training. Played only 88 minutes his first two years in the program. Wish he would have played more last year but that is water under the bridge. He may be hitting a wall the last couple of weeks but that is understandable as he is getting his first extended play in college ball.
TVH just played better than Matt when he was in there. Also a better match up when Tydus was in.
Regardless of who played the five we lost because we needed one more guy to put the ball in the basket besides BOO and BROOKS.
My last comment on the Nicholson discussion.
1) TKFH, one of the qualities nobody discusses in the Nicholson evaluation is why NU - and a fresh view from the outside in Lowry - decided in the off-season that EVERY ball into the post would need to be double-teamed. It's pretty obvious they were trying to cover a weakness. So I'm not sure I buy that he's a good post defender. I think his defense has been nicely hidden, but then forces the defensive weakness we've seen on the perimeter.
2) Gato, his one-on-one defense is one of the reasons I'd be awfully hesitant to swap him for most B10 big men.
3) Pure and simple ... if you can't differentiate yourself from friggin' Beran and TV in this rotation, then you're just "a guy." EDIT: A guy for now. Yes, there could be some improvement.
Okay, that's enough from me. TKFH is right. The 5 is not why they lost last night. Cappy makes a good point about the 9-25 mid-range jumpers. If NU could have those five or six EASY, WIDE open missed jumpers in the lane, this is a different discussion.
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tbh, I thought that if they couldn't close in regulation they would lose in OT. And then they had three empty possessions and I was pretty confident it was over before the buzzer.
One other yet to be mentioned comment is an obvious but important one - it’s a team game and the guys not getting all of the defense’s attention have to step up. Wynter, Lundy and Funk did for them; Audige, Berry and Beran did not for us.
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Lundy beat somebody in the corner, drove down the baseline and slammed it. Nicholson tried to come over, was screened and didn't get there. Such a weak argument.
Had Nicholson played his normal minutes we win the game. PSU had nobody that could defend him, but unfortunately we never went inside, then Collins benched him.
The team that is supposed to win does not depart from what it does normally until the game warrants it.
Make the opponent play you at your best.
When you play your backup center, who is clearly a step below the starter, for 30+ minutes, you are making a huge mistake.
It might be different if we were way behind, but we weren't.
Aren't you the guy who said Barnhizer was terrible?
The team's ascendance this year is directly tied to Buie, Barnhizer and Nicholson.
Collins made the appropriate adjustment when it was warranted, something you criticize him for never doing, and yet you now can’t accept it because of your bias for Nicholson.
So I say that your boy is imperfect and now we're going to start calling things out. Talk about a weak argument. Yawn.
You might also want to look up my other comments about Barhizer since you're keeping score. I'm perfectly fine with my early season guess about his shooting trending toward wrong.
Gee, do you really think that is part of the reason for the improvement, SD? A key strategic difference? Nah, it couldn't be.
Alright, let the bad vibes from this game remain contained within this thread, we have other things to be happier about.
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