Get worse to get better?

[CommodoresAndCats]

By no means am I giving up on the season, however I've see some systemic issues stemming from the team's lack of depth the past two season where we've had trouble finishing close games, becoming too reliant on a couple of scorers and with foul trouble on key guys.

Collins is an extremely competitive guy and wants to win every game, I get that. However, I wonder if playing such a short rotation in every close game is neglecting the big picture for our program. The starters seem to get run into the ground with fatigue and the young guys stuck on the bench seem to stunt their development, only furthering the need for Collins to play his top guys.

Collins' first recruiting class was good, no doubt about it, but a lot of those guys played by necessity and had the chance to work through their mistakes. I wonder if we have other young guys on the bench that could develop into much better players by getting some more time to work through things in real live games thereby giving the team some much needed depth. Maybe taking one step back could lead to two steps forward... just a thought.

 

[NJCat]

By no means am I giving up on the season, however I've see some systemic issues stemming from the team's lack of depth the past two season where we've had trouble finishing close games, becoming too reliant on a couple of scorers and with foul trouble on key guys.

Collins is an extremely competitive guy and wants to win every game, I get that. However, I wonder if playing such a short rotation in every close game is neglecting the big picture for our program. The starters seem to get run into the ground with fatigue and the young guys stuck on the bench seem to stunt their development, only furthering the need for Collins to play his top guys.

Collins' first recruiting class was good, no doubt about it, but a lot of those guys played by necessity and had the chance to work through their mistakes. I wonder if we have other young guys on the bench that could develop into much better players by getting some more time to work through things in real live games thereby giving the team some much needed depth. Maybe taking one step back could lead to two steps forward... just a thought.

I think you'll see the step back next season. I believe Collins is all-in this year with Vic and Dererk. They still have an outside shot at the NCAA. Next year the team will be extremely young and he will have to play Greer, Nance, Kopp and Ryan Young, plus his incoming Freshmen. Enjoy this season because growing pains will be evident next.

 

[ubercat]

As Collins (and Peter Gabriel) once sang:

"You've got to get in to get out."

 

[Medill90]

By no means am I giving up on the season, however I've see some systemic issues stemming from the team's lack of depth the past two season where we've had trouble finishing close games, becoming too reliant on a couple of scorers and with foul trouble on key guys.

Collins is an extremely competitive guy and wants to win every game, I get that. However, I wonder if playing such a short rotation in every close game is neglecting the big picture for our program. The starters seem to get run into the ground with fatigue and the young guys stuck on the bench seem to stunt their development, only furthering the need for Collins to play his top guys.

Collins' first recruiting class was good, no doubt about it, but a lot of those guys played by necessity and had the chance to work through their mistakes. I wonder if we have other young guys on the bench that could develop into much better players by getting some more time to work through things in real live games thereby giving the team some much needed depth. Maybe taking one step back could lead to two steps forward... just a thought.

I'm of the opinion that the frosh can help and Benson can help as they did Friday night. And the more they are used now, the more able they will be in the last third of the season.

However, parity from top to bottom combined with a coach who leans towards a short bench get in the way of that. He'll play six, maybe seven in the second half of games.

Next year may be difficult.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I'm of the opinion that the frosh can help and Benson can help as they did Friday night. And the more they are used now, the more able they will be in the last third of the season.

However, parity from top to bottom combined with a coach who leans towards a short bench get in the way of that. He'll play six, maybe seven in the second half of games.

Next year may be difficult.

Next year will be difficult.

 

[mikewebb68]

By no means am I giving up on the season, however I've see some systemic issues stemming from the team's lack of depth the past two season where we've had trouble finishing close games, becoming too reliant on a couple of scorers and with foul trouble on key guys.

Collins is an extremely competitive guy and wants to win every game, I get that. However, I wonder if playing such a short rotation in every close game is neglecting the big picture for our program. The starters seem to get run into the ground with fatigue and the young guys stuck on the bench seem to stunt their development, only furthering the need for Collins to play his top guys.

Collins' first recruiting class was good, no doubt about it, but a lot of those guys played by necessity and had the chance to work through their mistakes. I wonder if we have other young guys on the bench that could develop into much better players by getting some more time to work through things in real live games thereby giving the team some much needed depth. Maybe taking one step back could lead to two steps forward... just a thought.

We came back from way down to beat DePaul and nearly beat a top-5 team with the same "short rotation" and both times it was the other team that looked tired, because, in fact, most teams don't go very deep. Even OU with all their senior depth had to rely on OT to get to finally exhaust us...and they were plenty tired as well.

 

[Sec.112]

I dont disagree with your theory at all, Commodore. However, I see pros and cons all over the place. Here's just a couple.

Con: When comparing the first class to this group, I could see a well-prepared point guard making a huge difference.

Pro: If Nance plays like he did against Oklahoma, is a general rotation of Law, Pardon, Nance, Kopp and fill-in-the-blank much worse than Turner, Gaines and Taylor in the three questionable spots? I'd argue no.

However, that was the first game where Nance didn't look very tentative.

I agree if you want to tell me the Turner-Gaines group has more immediate potential.

I'll also agree if you want to tell me the freshmen group has a lower floor.

But we're 12 games in now, and Turner and Taylor are beyond potential.They shouldn't have the questions that freshmen do.

If Oklahoma Nance is what the staff sees in practice, I'd have no problem opening things up with what we already see from Kopp.

 

[Fitz51]

Next year will be difficult.

Great that our respite between last year and next year is this season: good but not good enough.

 

[Cat Fan in Buckeye Land]

It’s hard to consistently win at the level that all of us would like to see when you’re not one of the programs that has been doing it over an extended period of time. I see South Carolina went to the Final Four two years ago, missed the tournament last year, and has struggled to a 4-7 start this season. Last year’s darlings, Loyola, is only 7-6 to start this year. Recruiting is a lot of projection. Everybody develops at a different rate. I think NU has good infrastructure with the coaching staff, facilities, and support. I just want for them to be the best Northwestern they can be every year! Definitely hopeful for consistent NCAA appearances going forward, and with the trajectory of the program presently, that seems more likely than it has ever been.

 

[Catreporter]

It’s hard to consistently win at the level that all of us would like to see when you’re not one of the programs that has been doing it over an extended period of time. I see South Carolina went to the Final Four two years ago, missed the tournament last year, and has struggled to a 4-7 start this season. Last year’s darlings, Loyola, is only 7-6 to start this year. Recruiting is a lot of projection. Everybody develops at a different rate. I think NU has good infrastructure with the coaching staff, facilities, and support. I just want for them to be the best Northwestern they can be every year! Definitely hopeful for consistent NCAA appearances going forward, and with the trajectory of the program presently, that seems more likely than it has ever been.

Ah, some perspective!

 

[ricko654321]

By no means am I giving up on the season, however I've see some systemic issues stemming from the team's lack of depth the past two season where we've had trouble finishing close games, becoming too reliant on a couple of scorers and with foul trouble on key guys.

Collins is an extremely competitive guy and wants to win every game, I get that. However, I wonder if playing such a short rotation in every close game is neglecting the big picture for our program. The starters seem to get run into the ground with fatigue and the young guys stuck on the bench seem to stunt their development, only furthering the need for Collins to play his top guys.

Collins' first recruiting class was good, no doubt about it, but a lot of those guys played by necessity and had the chance to work through their mistakes. I wonder if we have other young guys on the bench that could develop into much better players by getting some more time to work through things in real live games thereby giving the team some much needed depth. Maybe taking one step back could lead to two steps forward... just a thought.

I’m not sure I would phrase it exactly the same philosophically, but I agree with your point that we need to give the depth players more time. It’s hurting us late in games. I was watching the Okla game with a buddy who is a CBB fan but not necessarily NU. At about 10 mins left in the game I saw us go to our final 5 (starters plus Gaines in for Kopp) and I turned to him and said “well there’s our last sub of the game, these 5 are playing the rest of the way.” He was a bit surprised. I’m not 100% sure but I think that ended up happening (there might have been a situational sub or two for specific plays). Even in the NBA most teams continue a player rotation until 3-4 mins to go.

CC should just map out a plan in advance of a given game and force himself to stick to it so our top 5 don’t get burned out. Sometimes Fitz’s structured plans for PT are annoying and frustrating, but maybe CC needs to be a little bit more annoyingly frustrating and stubborn and just force himself to use the rotation until it gets to, say, the 4 minute timeout.

 

[PZAZ]

For next year, we may have another transfer - don't think we'll renew Falzon for another year either.

 

[IGNORE2]

For next year, we may have another transfer - don't think we'll renew Falzon for another year either.

That’s my curiousity too. But we have to fill Pardon, Law, Ash and the standard unused seat. So Falzon will call for five recruits. That’s quite a lot. And I hope the honorary Vassar unused scholarship hasn’t been soo successful that it expands to two schollie.

How has RI been doing lately?

 

[NJCat]

How has RI been doing lately?

He's been fine. Went for 14 points in 30 minutes @Penn State. Averaging 31 minutes, 15 points and 9.7 boards in 12 games this season.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

wow, just saw who we open up with in 2019. We are going to get crushed on January 3rd. Gotta pick up the pieces after 0-3 and try to go 10-7 the rest of the way and win maybe 2 in the tournament to have a chance to dance.

 

[PZAZ]

Not sure I agree after seeing how we played against UM, IU and OU

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

We can beat anybody in the conference

 

[hdhntr1]

By no means am I giving up on the season, however I've see some systemic issues stemming from the team's lack of depth the past two season where we've had trouble finishing close games, becoming too reliant on a couple of scorers and with foul trouble on key guys.

Collins is an extremely competitive guy and wants to win every game, I get that. However, I wonder if playing such a short rotation in every close game is neglecting the big picture for our program. The starters seem to get run into the ground with fatigue and the young guys stuck on the bench seem to stunt their development, only furthering the need for Collins to play his top guys.

Collins' first recruiting class was good, no doubt about it, but a lot of those guys played by necessity and had the chance to work through their mistakes. I wonder if we have other young guys on the bench that could develop into much better players by getting some more time to work through things in real live games thereby giving the team some much needed depth. Maybe taking one step back could lead to two steps forward... just a thought.

I think you would find that an awful lot of teams use pretty short benches as they get into the heart of their season

 

[NUCat320]

The only guys who have earned 34 mpg status - by virtue of on-court success at Northwestern - are Law and Pardon. While it’s good to have a core rotation, and it’s bad for players to fear mistakes, the other 132 minutes should be something of a pick ‘em.

In particular, I think Taylor is being given minutes by proclamation that he hasn’t earned. There’s a possibility that a more deferential offensive player getting more minutes (either of the core frosh) simply gives Law the opportunity to unleash his repertoire even more.