Just something to ponder

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Both were listed as three stars by the time they got here. I know at one time Cobb was listed as a 4 star but then dropped back. I never recall Sina as being listed as a 4 star and you have to be there generally to sniff top 100. Rivals listed him as #121.

Yes, you made that clear in your previous posts.

I was merely pointing out why Sina (and Cobb) was mentioned as a top 100 player/four star prospect by a previous poster...because during his recruitment period he was indeed considered a four star caliber (CBS sports link). This article has him #75 ESPN & #90 Rivals at the time of his commitment.

He (and Cobb) dropped by the time the final rivals rankings were released (known by some as the NU "bump").

 

[NJCat]

I never recall Sina as being listed as a 4 star and you have to be there generally to sniff top 100. Rivals listed him as #121.

247 has Sina as a 4* at #116, pretty consistent with Rivals.

And FWIW, if you look at the current Rival rankings, the first 132 players are 5 or 4* players, with the last 4* being (ironically) Jordan Lathon.....last year 4* extended down to 135. In Sina's class 4* cut-off was 113, so he missed by 8 spots.

 

[phatcat]

Really surprised that you and the "likes " seem to think that they would trade Collins for Falk, Foster or Carmody. Sorry but I do feel that I know what I'm Falking talking about.

Nah I just wanted to make some dumb puns (yes that is redundant)

 

[willycat]

This is pretty disingenuous to a great Wildcat.

You do know that Reggie is the only former Northwestern player currently on an NBA roster, right?

I'll just add that we are talking about what they did in college not the NBA. Hearn wasn't a starter until his senior year and BMac started as a freshman.

 

[willycat]

So, you're saying we aren't on an upward trajectory currently?

Of course we are and it certainly accelerated when Collins came on the scene.

 

[willycat]

Definitely.

By the time he was an upperclassmen at NU though, it was clear Reggie was a talented player (regardless of work ethic, you can't land on an NBA roster without raw ability)...something Willy was quite dismissive of (and hence my response).

Sure Hearn had a good couple of seasons on a not very good team. Do you think he would have started on last years squad?

 

[willycat]

Nah I just wanted to make some dumb puns (yes that is redundant)

You succeeded, congratulations.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

I'll just add that we are talking about what they did in college not the NBA. Hearn wasn't a starter until his senior year and BMac started as a freshman.

Then why say "Hearn wasn't close to being as talented as BMac and Lindsey"?

As outstanding a work ethic that Reggie has, he didn't suddenly develop natural abilities in the D-League...his talent was apparent in Evanston, he simply didn't have the numbers of the other two because he was stuck behind Crawford and Cobb early on in his career, two very good basketball players in their own right.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Sure Hearn had a good couple of seasons on a not very good team. Do you think he would have started on last years squad?

Absolutely, but it really doesn't matter because Scottie/Sanjay would have still received the bulk of their minutes. Adding Reggie to last year's team would have allowed for more creative/effective line up combinations.

Also on your "a good couple of seasons on a not very good team" comment:

Reggie's emergence happened during his junior year...one in which the team was on the bubble up until the BTT loss. I wouldn't call that team "not very good", at the very least by NU standards.

 

[hoosboot]

Of course we are and it certainly accelerated when Collins came on the scene.

I agree that we are on a generally upward trajectory, but it's odd to hear that from you given that your rationale for why we weren't on an upward trajectory prior to CCC is a losing season and a losing conference record. That's unfortunately what we have right now.

Well...it's not really odd since you rarely are consistent in your application of principles, but you get the gist of it.

 

[Medill90]

Both were listed as three stars by the time they got here. I know at one time Cobb was listed as a 4 star but then dropped back. I never recall Sina as being listed as a 4 star and you have to be there generally to sniff top 100. Rivals listed him as #121. So by the time they were in a position to come (LOI) , neither was top 100. Whereas both Nance and Kopp after signing are still well into top 100 and Lathon is still a 4 star and well into top 150

Sina was definitely four star when he committed. Maybe not all three services, but he was a four star and really didn't slide that much.

 

[MysticCat]

Of course we are and it certainly accelerated when Collins came on the scene.

9th place average.

10th with his own guys.

Hope it doesn’t keep accelerating at this pace.

 

[willycat]

I agree that we are on a generally upward trajectory, but it's odd to hear that from you given that your rationale for why we weren't on an upward trajectory prior to CCC is a losing season and a losing conference record. That's unfortunately what we have right now.

Well...it's not really odd since you rarely are consistent in your application of principles, but you get the gist of it.

And you don't what the hell your talking about. If you consider what happened during Carmody's 13 years an upward trajectory then let's look at the facts. His last season the overall record was 13-19 and he never had a winning conference record, never. So yes I consider that the program is on an upward swing since Collins arrived, although I guess you could just choose to ignore that he is the first NU BB coach to get his team in the NCAA Tournament.

 

[willycat]

Sina was definitely four star when he committed. Maybe not all three services, but he was a four star and really didn't slide that much.

Still he certainly slide when he tried to play Div. I BB. Sure glad Collins got BMac to replace him.

 

[EagerFan]

From what I recall, the big change in Reggie getting more court time was the (successful) effort he put into his 3 game, which he hadn’t developed as a high school center.

You couldn’t get on the court as a guard/forward with Carmody if you couldn’t hit the three. The same reason (or at least one of them) guys like Jeff Ryan and Mike Capocci saw very limited minutes.

 

[hoosboot]

And you don't what the hell your talking about.

Says the guy who says the only NU player in the NBA,

"was a over achieving walk-on and weren't close to being as talented as BMac and Lindsey."

ROTFLMAO. I'm super stoked about NU's hoops program and the potential it holds. I'm a big supporter of our student-athletes and coaches. All of them. You should try it some time.

If you consider what happened during Carmody's 13 years an upward trajectory then let's look at the facts. His last season the overall record was 13-19 and he never had a winning conference record, never. So yes I consider that the program is on an upward swing since Collins arrived, although I guess you could just choose to ignore that he is the first NU BB coach to get his team in the NCAA Tournament.

It seems like you don't understand how a trajectory works (you take a starting data point and graph ensuing data points), you don't realize that our record this season is perilously close to Coach Carmody's last season, and you don't understand how to consistently apply principles with data.

Other than that, you totally know what you're talking about.

 

[Katatonic]

the program historically only made the NITs once every 4-5 years (if that)

Every 25 years actually.

Fair enough - lol!

Should have made it clear that it was since I made it to campus.

So BCs last team just wasn’t as good (no mention of injuries), but CCs is a question of chemistry? Interesting. Oh, that’s right, Bmac missed one and a half games. He was really on a tear before that though.

Swop was great. And Hearn who you glance over is the first NBA player since Esch, for Christ’s sake. Think anyone on this roster is gonna sniff the NBA?

In addition to losing Cobb, Crawford, Swop and Lumpkin for the season, Hearn, Olah, Marcotullio and a bunch of other missed time.

It's a fun topic and all, but Devin Nunes called and needs you back in the office to finish up that memo you were working on.

As usual w/ tRumpkins, you project your characteristics onto others.

That's not how Hearn described it when he wrote a multi-part article about his experience. But then every coach in college basketball missed on Hearn.

The difference is that Hearn had 3 schools on his list as a prospective walk-on - Butler, ND and NU.

The other 2 schools basically told him that they had no interest; after looking at his HS tape, Henderson told Hearn that he could walk-on, but that there would be no guarantee of a roster spot and that he likely wouldn't see significant playing time until his JR year.


Even Walker gives Cobb credit (where credit is due).

It was like Jershon willed the team to win. He had some impressive snapshots of great play during his five years at NU. He was a Top 100 recruit (closer to 100) but he was healthy this year, I believe we win at least three-five other games and would be at 10-7 (see Md. loss when he could not box out and Dez Wells jumped over him, the close losses to MSU, UM and OSU also come to mind). Well, we still have his performance against UM to remember what a competitor he is. Hopefully, he plays on Saturday and we pull it out against Franny and the Eye Gouger.

But hey, maybe Willy can dismiss Walker, but what about CC and BMac?

"We have to scrounge out points from all those other guys," Collins said. "I feel badly for JerShon because he's a really good player. He's just a shell of what he was. And that hurts me because I hate seeing that as a senior. But I love what he's trying to do for our team, and getting out there and battling.

For a freshman such as Bryant McIntosh, watching Cobb persevere provides an important life lesson.

"You feel bad for him because you know how great a player he could be if he was healthy," McIntosh said. "He's putting his heart on the line. He is giving us everything he's got."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-northwestern-basketball-spt-0209-20150208-story.html

And for someone who loves stars/rankings - Cobb did alright for himself.

Cobb, a 4-star recruit according to Rivals.com, helped Columbia (Ga.) High to a 127-14 record during his prep career. He averaged 23.2 points and 7.8 rebounds as a senior and was a two-time Class AAA first-team all-state selection.

Note - Rivals eventually dropped Cobb down to 3-stars, but at one point was a 4* and ranked in the Top 100.


Cobb was simply a warrior.

JerShon Cobb hobbled into the media room, his right foot in a boot, the pain of stress fractures evident.

None of that could wipe the smile off his face as he proudly proclaimed, “I’m undefeated in Senior Nights in my career.”

What a night it was. In what was undoubtedly his best game of the season, Cobb dropped 14 points while hauling in eight rebounds. With Northwestern trailing late in regulation, he scored nine straight and was so in the zone that when a reporter later asked about that stretch, Cobb remarked, “Really? I didn’t know that.”

The fifth-year senior has battled injuries throughout his career. He missed an entire season because of off-the-court issues. After taking a seat on the bench for the last six games, the 82-78 double-overtime win against Michigan was his last hurrah at Welsh-Ryan Arena. Can you imagine a more poetic ending?

And it almost didn’t happen.

Up until Monday afternoon, Chris Collins was labeling Cobb as questionable for the game. NU had been targeting Senior Night for his return, but it still wasn’t clear if he’d be ready. Then, Cobb came up to his coach and said, “I’m playing tomorrow.”

“I thought I was coaching LeBron or something,” Collins said.

Cobb would get the start, but his minutes would still be based on how well he played. When all was said and done, he had seen a season-high 33 minutes. And he had earned every one of them.

https://247sports.com/college/northwestern/Article/Midwest-BOOM-7-on-7-Honor-Roll-115366343

During his freshman season, coach Bill Carmody hailed him for his scoring ability and savvy; Cobb had a great feel for drawing contact and spacing defenders to set up assists. But he needed hip surgery after the season, and hip tendinitis and back issues dogged him as a sophomore.

Still he scored 24 points against Minnesota in a Big Ten tournament loss and followed that with an 8-for-10 shooting night in an NIT victory over Akron.

During his freshman season, coach Bill Carmody hailed him for his scoring ability and savvy; Cobb had a great feel for drawing contact and spacing defenders to set up assists. But he needed hip surgery after the season, and hip tendinitis and back issues dogged him as a sophomore.

"I could always break down (a defender) and get my own shot," he said. "It's hard now. I have to use (screens) around me to get my shots."

Asked if the challenge is more mental or physical, Cobb said both.

"I don't think I'm as quick or as mobile as I was," he said, "and in the back of my head, maybe I can't go left because I can't step off this right foot … so maybe I need to go right. It's a mental block."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...obb-derrick-rose-spt-0226-20150225-story.html

 

[Katatonic]

Correction...the Cobb and Hearn backcourt would have been better defensively, but would have struggled to score anywhere nearly as effectively as BMac and Lindsey. Alternately, I think Crawford and Swop would have been better scorers, but Law and Lumpkin would have been subtantially better defensively.

Don't think the gap offensively would have been a great as you make it out to be.

Cobb could not only drive to the basket, but he has been one of a handful of 'Cats who could create his own shot (had a mean step-back jumper).

Cobb had a career FG% of 40.5.
BMac is at 41%.

When it comes to eFG%, they switch places w/ Cobb being slightly higher (47.8% vs. 46.6%).

Hearn had a career FG% of 45.7% and an eFG% of 53.6.

Lindsey is at 41.5% and 50.6% respectively.

Also don't think the 2Ls would have been substantially better on D (better, but not substantially better).

Swop and Law are very similar - tall, lanky w/ some hops.

So basically a wash.

Lumpkin is the wild-card here as he is the swiss-army knife on D and can do things that Law, Swop or Crawford can't do - that is, defend all 5 positions.

CC's 2nd best defensive team was the '13-14 squad w/ Cobb, Crawford and a young Lumpkin (imagine if they had a 2nd year Pardon manning the paint).

I'll just add that we are talking about what they did in college not the NBA. Hearn wasn't a starter until his senior year and BMac started as a freshman.

Do you always take an overly simplistic/superficial take on things?

Oh, wait...

Not to mention, not getting the facts straight.

Hearn did start during his JR year.

In fact started the season as the starter at the 2 spot.

Now, maybe that was due to both Cobb and Marco being hurt at the start of the season, but even when Cobb and Marco came back (w/ Cobb getting injured again) Hearn kept the starting gig due to his play (if Cobb had been healthy, may have split that role).

Note how you reference BMac and not Lindsey.

Lindsey didn't start as a frosh, much less until his JR season.

I guess we should devalue Lindsey based on that.

Now, Hearn didn't score as much a Lindsey did during his JR season, but Hearn had to split time in the backfield w/ 2 other talented players, Cobb (when healthy enough to play) and Marco.

Still, Hearn avg'd 26.1 minutes per game (not that much less than the 30.6 Scottie avg'd).

Hearn shot an exemplary .486 from the field, including .371 from the arc.

Lindsey shot .424 from the field last season and .322 from behind the line.

Scottie was lucky that the only competition he had for minutes last year was Ash.

In his soph year, Lindsey couldn't beat out Demps for the starting spot - which is no shame.

Prior to that, Scottie couldn't beat out Demps or a hurt Cobb (again, no shame in that).

And Hearn played hard on D and didn't take plays (or entire games) off like we have seen Scottie do.

The thing is, you have a looong track record of trying to diminish anything that BC had done or anyone who had ties w/ him.

Luckily for the program, CC is a bigger man than you.

Not only has CC given BC the credit he is due (for building up the program to the level he did), CC absolutely loooooved Sanjay.

Lost track of the # of times (after a game) where CC would be quoted saying how he loves Sanjay.

The Wildcats had their own David Ross last season. His name was Sanjay Lumpkin.

"He held us all together," coach Chris Collins said.

"He was our toughness guy," Law said. "We could always depend on him to do the little things.

"A glue guy is just as important as a star. He keeps everyone together and keeps the engine running smoothly. Last year when Sanjay was out there, we all felt more comfortable defensively."

And let's not forget Lumpkin's work on O.

Said Law: "I felt like his six points were the most important six points of the game."

Indeed, Lumpkin averaged exactly three buckets, ranking sixth on the team.

While not a volume scores, Lumpkin was a highly efficient one.

Same went for Tap - and that efficiency can be the difference btwn a W and an L in a close game.

Speaking of Nate -

"Nate made the team morale go way up," Law said.

Collins called him "as good a teammate as there is. He watched guys like Vic and Scottie emerge as stars. There's a tendency for all of us to not want the guys in front of us to do well. It's human nature. He genuinely enjoyed the successes of his teammates."

Taphorn was also the unofficial team chef. He lived with Lumpkin and would invite the entire team over for feasts the night before games.

"His fettuccine alfredo with chicken and bacon was to die for," McIntosh said.

And I think this quote from Law says it all.

"We won games last year," Law said, "because of our chemistry and being tight-knit."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...ross-greenstein-spt-1013-20171012-column.html

Where was the chemistry and being tight-knit this season?

The starters had played w/ each other for at least 2 seasons and the only addition to the roster was Gaines.

Aside from the whole team chemistry and leadership thing, who exactly would have been able to fill Lumpkin's starting role at the 4 last season, or for that matter, Tap's role as the 3 pt specialist off the bench?

The defense efficiency ranking dropped all the way down to 125th this season after being ranked 42nd last year.

Gee, I wonder what the cause for such a disparity and drop could be?

And not that the team's efficiency on O was all that great last season, it actually dropped this season.

 

[willycat]

Don't think the gap offensively would have been a great as you make it out to be.

Cobb could not only drive to the basket, but he has been one of a handful of 'Cats who could create his own shot (had a mean step-back jumper).

Cobb had a career FG% of 40.5.
BMac is at 41%.

When it comes to eFG%, they switch places w/ Cobb being slightly higher (47.8% vs. 46.6%).

Hearn had a career FG% of 45.7% and an eFG% of 53.6.

Lindsey is at 41.5% and 50.6% respectively.

Also don't think the 2Ls would have been substantially better on D (better, but not substantially better).

Swop and Law are very similar - tall, lanky w/ some hops.

So basically a wash.

Lumpkin is the wild-card here as he is the swiss-army knife on D and can do things that Law, Swop or Crawford can't do - that is, defend all 5 positions.

CC's 2nd best defensive team was the '13-14 squad w/ Cobb, Crawford and a young Lumpkin (imagine if they had a 2nd year Pardon manning the paint).




Do you always take an overly simplistic/superficial take on things?

Oh, wait...

Not to mention, not getting the facts straight.

Hearn did start during his JR year.

In fact started the season as the starter at the 2 spot.

Now, maybe that was due to both Cobb and Marco being hurt at the start of the season, but even when Cobb and Marco came back (w/ Cobb getting injured again) Hearn kept the starting gig due to his play (if Cobb had been healthy, may have split that role).

Note how you reference BMac and not Lindsey.

Lindsey didn't start as a frosh, much less until his JR season.

I guess we should devalue Lindsey based on that.

Now, Hearn didn't score as much a Lindsey did during his JR season, but Hearn had to split time in the backfield w/ 2 other talented players, Cobb (when healthy enough to play) and Marco.

Still, Hearn avg'd 26.1 minutes per game (not that much less than the 30.6 Scottie avg'd).

Hearn shot an exemplary .486 from the field, including .371 from the arc.

Lindsey shot .424 from the field last season and .322 from behind the line.

Scottie was lucky that the only competition he had for minutes last year was Ash.

In his soph year, Lindsey couldn't beat out Demps for the starting spot - which is no shame.

Prior to that, Scottie couldn't beat out Demps or a hurt Cobb (again, no shame in that).

And Hearn played hard on D and didn't take plays (or entire games) off like we have seen Scottie do.

The thing is, you have a looong track record of trying to diminish anything that BC had done or anyone who had ties w/ him.

Luckily for the program, CC is a bigger man than you.

Not only has CC given BC the credit he is due (for building up the program to the level he did), CC absolutely loooooved Sanjay.

Lost track of the # of times (after a game) where CC would be quoted saying how he loves Sanjay.





And let's not forget Lumpkin's work on O.



While not a volume scores, Lumpkin was a highly efficient one.

Same went for Tap - and that efficiency can be the difference btwn a W and an L in a close game.

Speaking of Nate -



And I think this quote from Law says it all.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...ross-greenstein-spt-1013-20171012-column.html

Where was the chemistry and being tight-knit this season?

The starters had played w/ each other for at least 2 seasons and the only addition to the roster was Gaines.

Aside from the whole team chemistry and leadership thing, who exactly would have been able to fill Lumpkin's starting role at the 4 last season, or for that matter, Tap's role as the 3 pt specialist off the bench?

The defense efficiency ranking dropped all the way down to 125th this season after being ranked 42nd last year.

Gee, I wonder what the cause for such a disparity and drop could be?

And not that the team's efficiency on O was all that great last season, it actually dropped this season.

Wow are your fingers bleeding . I get it you love Hearn and have a spot in your heart for Carmody. Just will ask, again... Who would you rather have as the coach at NU? Collins or Carmody? Maybe K.O.?

 

[hdhntr1]

247 has Sina as a 4* at #116, pretty consistent with Rivals.

And FWIW, if you look at the current Rival rankings, the first 132 players are 5 or 4* players, with the last 4* being (ironically) Jordan Lathon.....last year 4* extended down to 135. In Sina's class 4* cut-off was 113, so he missed by 8 spots.

The point was that while he was a top 150 player, he was not top 100. Whereas this year alone, we have two guys that are not just barely in the top 100 but solidly in.

 

[NJCat]

The point was that while he was a top 150 player, he was not top 100. Whereas this year alone, we have two guys that are not just barely in the top 100 but solidly in.

Agree. But it is ironic that Sina was a higher ranked prospect than either of the two best point guards Collins has recruited.....

 

[Medill90]

Sina played major minutes at Seton Hall and then, again, at GWU after he transferred. IIRC, 30ish minutes a game.

The Seton Hall situation was a real mess.

 

[NJCat]

Sina played major minutes at Seton Hall and then, again, at GWU after he transferred. IIRC, 30ish minutes a game.

The Seton Hall situation was a real mess.

Yep. He averaged 32 minutes and started all 34 games his year at GW. He also averaged 32 minutes his second season at SHU. Good player, would have been fine at NU. No regrets getting BMac however, he was a fine player at NU as a 4-year starter!!

 

[hoosboot]

Wow are your fingers bleeding . I get it you love Hearn and have a spot in your heart for Carmody. Just will ask, again... Who would you rather have as the coach at NU? Collins or Carmody? Maybe K.O.?

 

[hdhntr1]

Agree. But it is ironic that Sina was a higher ranked prospect than either of the two best point guards Collins has recruited.....

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn on occasion . It only took BC 13 years . CCC goes after Lead Guards and likely kids that fit that role are sort of tweeners and less likely to be rated as highly. And with the ratings, not sure you could say Lathon is rated below. Maybe Sina's class was weaker leading to less four stars. BMac, yes as he was not top 150 but it was CCCs first year and I will gladly take what we got from him

 

[NJCat]

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn on occasion . It only took BC 13 years .

Look, I'm not trying to reopen the BC debate. But the blind squirrel found Crawford, Shurna, Coble, Cobb, Jitim, Vedran, MJ II, Moore just to name a few, so it isn't like Sina would have been the first decent player in those 13 years.....most of those guys were named to the All Big 10 teams, and Shurna was better than anyone Collins has recruited to date. Kid led the Big 10 in scoring, was first team All Big 10, and was an All American.

 

[willycat]

Look, I'm not trying to reopen the BC debate. But the blind squirrel found Crawford, Shurna, Coble, Cobb, Jitim, Vedran, MJ II, Moore just to name a few, so it isn't like Sina would have been the first decent player in those 13 years.....most of those guys were named to the All Big 10 teams, and Shurna was better than anyone Collins has recruited to date. Kid led the Big 10 in scoring, was first team All Big 10, and was an All American.

Guess it must have been bad coaching, if NU did not make "The Dance", with all of those top performing kids over 13 seasons.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

Absolutely, but it really doesn't matter because Scottie/Sanjay would have still received the bulk of their minutes. Adding Reggie to last year's team would have allowed for more creative/effective line up combinations.

Also on your "a good couple of seasons on a not very good team" comment:

Reggie's emergence happened during his junior year...one in which the team was on the bubble up until the BTT loss. I wouldn't call that team "not very good", at the very least by NU standards.

Scottie looked like an NBA pro in last game

 

[NJCat]

Guess it must have been bad coaching, if NU did not make "The Dance", with all of those top performing kids over 13 seasons.

Yep. It was also not having enough good players at the same time. Which is also bad coaching (bad recruiting which is the job of the coaches).

 

[hoosboot]

Guess it must have been bad coaching, if NU did not make "The Dance", with all of those top performing kids over 13 seasons.

 

[Katatonic]

Wow are your fingers bleeding . I get it you love Hearn and have a spot in your heart for Carmody. Just will ask, again... Who would you rather have as the coach at NU? Collins or Carmody? Maybe K.O.?

Notice how you didn't have anything of merit to rebut anything I had posted.

Wouldn't say that I love Hearn.

While I respected the way his worked his way up to being starter by his JR year, like many I didn't fully appreciate him until he had left the program.

There are the guys who were/are my faves - Jitim, Juice, Johnny, Lumpkin and Pardon.

Would put Hearn in the grouping just below w/ Hardy, Cobb, Tap, BMac and Law.

I'm sure, I'll find a new fave (or 2) in the incoming crop of frosh, but right now, the one who is closest in joining Pardon is Gaines.

And this isn't solely based on play on the court - but character, personality and toughness.

And not surprisingly, you haven't been paying attention (which is why you tend to MIS-characterize what I and others have stated).

Numerous times now, I've stated that I'd rather have CC than BC as I am a believer in being more defense oriented, that there are limitations to recruiting when it comes to the Princeton O (aside from CC just being a more natural recruiter) and that while BC's teams may show more consistency, that CC's teams will reach higher highs.

Is that good enough for you?

Heck, I even stated that Phillips should have let BC go EARLIER than he did.

Phillips clearly didn't fully support BC and it wasn't good for the program to have people (esp. recruits) wonder every year if this would be the year that Phillips fired BC.

Phillips should have let BC go after Shurna's final year, but waited until an injury-plagued, losing season to make his move (the guys on the team were actually surprised that BC got fired b/c they thought all the injuries would buy BC another year, but I wasn't).

Guess it must have been bad coaching, if NU did not make "The Dance", with all of those top performing kids over 13 seasons.

Was actually good coaching (not that BC didn't make some mistakes - one was not playing Hearn enough in a narrow loss to UI; BC fessed up and told Hearn he should've played him more).

Was not good enough recruiting - to cover up for the inevitable injuries.

Kinda like this year, huh?

In what is the weakest B1G in some time.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

The point was that while he was a top 150 player, he was not top 100

Hey Hdhntr, did you check out my reply with the links?

I ask because both of them list Sina as a four star prior to his NU decomittment and LOI with Seton Hall. The later points out Jaren as a top 100 prospect (ESPN 75, Rivals 90).

 

[Katatonic]

Sure Hearn had a good couple of seasons on a not very good team. Do you think he would have started on last years squad?

Actually think there would have been a chance that Reggie would have (over Scottie).

Hearn was a more efficient scorer and didn't take halves (or games) off when it came to D.

At the very least, Reggie would have gotten starter-type minutes - if he had come off the bench.

Hearn also brought a physicality that was missing w/o Lumpkin (can't expect Pardon to carry the burden by his lonesome; altho Gaines did his best as a young'un).

If we're talking this season, Hearn definitely would have been in the starting rotation - likely at the 3 spot (basically taking Crawford's role as an undersized 3).

Law would move over to the 4-spot and think he wouldn't have missed a beat, as Swop was a rebounding machine despite his similar lanky build.

 

[hdhntr1]

Look, I'm not trying to reopen the BC debate. But the blind squirrel found Crawford, Shurna, Coble, Cobb, Jitim, Vedran, MJ II, Moore just to name a few, so it isn't like Sina would have been the first decent player in those 13 years.....most of those guys were named to the All Big 10 teams, and Shurna was better than anyone Collins has recruited to date. Kid led the Big 10 in scoring, was first team All Big 10, and was an All American.

He did not find Jitim. And several were TH as recruiting had fallen through the floor before he arrived. We are talking recruiting and not talent evaluation to fit a particular system. How many other offers did BC and company have to compete against for those guys? Cobb yes but I don't think there were many for Shurna, Crawford etc.

 

[hdhntr1]

Notice how you didn't have anything of merit to rebut anything I had posted.

Wouldn't say that I love Hearn.

While I respected the way his worked his way up to being starter by his JR year, like many I didn't fully appreciate him until he had left the program.

There are the guys who were/are my faves - Jitim, Juice, Johnny, Lumpkin and Pardon.

Would put Hearn in the grouping just below w/ Hardy, Cobb, Tap, BMac and Law.

I'm sure, I'll find a new fave (or 2) in the incoming crop of frosh, but right now, the one who is closest in joining Pardon is Gaines.

And this isn't solely based on play on the court - but character, personality and toughness.

And not surprisingly, you haven't been paying attention (which is why you tend to MIS-characterize what I and others have stated).

Numerous times now, I've stated that I'd rather have CC than BC as I am a believer in being more defense oriented, that there are limitations to recruiting when it comes to the Princeton O (aside from CC just being a more natural recruiter) and that while BC's teams may show more consistency, that CC's teams will reach higher highs.

Is that good enough for you?

Heck, I even stated that Phillips should have let BC go EARLIER than he did.

Phillips clearly didn't fully support BC and it wasn't good for the program to have people (esp. recruits) wonder every year if this would be the year that Phillips fired BC.

Phillips should have let BC go after Shurna's final year, but waited until an injury-plagued, losing season to make his move (the guys on the team were actually surprised that BC got fired b/c they thought all the injuries would buy BC another year, but I wasn't).




Was actually good coaching (not that BC didn't make some mistakes - one was not playing Hearn enough in a narrow loss to UI; BC fessed up and told Hearn he should've played him more).

Was not good enough recruiting - to cover up for the inevitable injuries.

Kinda like this year, huh?

In what is the weakest B1G in some time.

Not sure you can say BC teams showed a lot of consistency. He had 5 seasons where he won 4 (4 three or less) or less BIG games(including his last year) . CCC has never won less than 6. As far as Phillips support of BC, have to disagree as he extended him after the awful 7th and 8th seasons where NU won a total of 3 BIG games combined. have to say that BC really didn't support Phillips much either. Wouldn't put himself out there to do the fundraising thing. While I was fine with BC getting one more year, I do feel it was time to move on either that year or one year later.

 

[willycat]

He did not find Jitim. And several were TH as recruiting had fallen through the floor before he arrived. We are talking recruiting and not talent evaluation to fit a particular system. How many other offers did BC and company have to compete against for those guys? Cobb yes but I don't think there were many for Shurna, Crawford etc.

Also very few for Coble. Talked with a close source of his a few times and found that he played in a low rated private school league in Arizona. He had to travel the country during the summer to showcases to even get some recruiting notice.

 

[Medill90]

I've always made the argument that since the athletic director's job performance will be judged in great part by how the revenue sports perform, he has every right to choose the coaches.

That would be the case if Carmody was a marketing manager making $100k instead of a bball coach making $1 million.

Personally, that last year wasn't Carmody's fault but he had run out of string. I didn't like it, but I don't think Phillips deserves blame. And, IIRC, Collins wasn't yet here so he can't be blamed either.

 

[Styre]

As far as Phillips support of BC, have to disagree as he extended him after the awful 7th and 8th seasons where NU won a total of 3 BIG games combined.

Phillips extended Carmody midway through the 2010-11 season on the heels of two straight NIT appearances. He was hired by NU after the awful 07-08 season was already over.

 

[hdhntr1]

Yes, you made that clear in your previous posts.

I was merely pointing out why Sina (and Cobb) was mentioned as a top 100 player/four star prospect by a previous poster...because during his recruitment period he was indeed considered a four star caliber (CBS sports link). This article has him #75 ESPN & #90 Rivals at the time of his commitment.

He (and Cobb) dropped by the time the final rivals rankings were released (known by some as the NU "bump").

I was watching Rivals at the time and do not recall seeing him listed as a 4 star. Again looking at Rivals listing available today, (I presume based on signing day maybe with NU or with SH) and he was most recently rated as a 3 star and out of top 100. While true that he was one of BC's highest rated recruits, he also occurred in BC's final year and BC had very little highly rated talent preceding him. THat was the point. Even if both of them were that high rated. Zero, One or two guys in 13 years vs two in just this incoming class alone both four star and top 100. And not borderline. Plus a third that is a 4 star and rated similarly to BCs top rated recruits in 13 years.

 

[hdhntr1]

Hey Hdhntr, did you check out my reply with the links?

I ask because both of them list Sina as a four star prior to his NU decomittment and LOI with Seton Hall. The later points out Jaren as a top 100 prospect (ESPN 75, Rivals 90).

Only found one link and it was to NU signing him and his rating on one service at the time. A lot of us were disappointed that Sina chose not to come here but it did end up with us getting BMac and I am good with that.