Not ready to declare the season lost yet...

[DaCat]

For anyone who has followed the Cats for a while, you know that it's never easy for this program. While Fitz is not close to being the perfect coach, nor his assistants, the football season is always a story that can take some surprising twists and turns. The Duke game was ugly. I don't think we are as bad as we looked. I'm nowhere near the ledge... yet. Let's see what unfolds.

 

[julescat]

NU was vastly overrated (for who knows what reasons) going into the season. I still think we will be OK and I'm hoping for 7 wins but think 5 or 6 is more lilkely. I kind of hope they go with youngest and most athletic on the OL and just accept the growing pains.

 

[DaCat]

I like what I've seen so far with Slater, Thomas and Vogel. I hope after this season we get a legitimate OL coach to develop them.

 

[D_C_B]

I like what I've seen so far with Slater, Thomas and Vogel. I hope after this season we get a legitimate OL coach to develop them.

Me too. They seem to move well to this untrained eye.

 

[NJCat]

I hope after this season we get a legitimate OL coach to develop them.

I hope I win the lottery. I think I have a better chance of my hope coming true.

 

[pawildcat]

For anyone who has followed the Cats for a while, you know that it's never easy for this program. While Fitz is not close to being the perfect coach, nor his assistants, the football season is always a story that can take some surprising twists and turns. The Duke game was ugly. I don't think we are as bad as we looked. I'm nowhere near the ledge... yet. Let's see what unfolds.

I was nervous when I saw the preseason hype. When has Northwestern football ever done well when we were highly touted before the season (just think 2001, the season after the bowl win over Mississippi State etc.)? The program does not seem to be able to stand prosperity.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

I hope I win the lottery. I think I have a better chance of my hope coming true.

We need to go about 3-9 or 4-8 before Fitz considers firing the OL coach. Our other units deserve better. It isnt right for Fitz to continue this heavy OL tax burden on our recruits and players. The OL doesnt know what its doing.

 

[Deeringfish]

I was nervous when I saw the preseason hype. When has Northwestern football ever done well when we were highly touted before the season (just think 2001, the season after the bowl win over Mississippi State etc.)? The program does not seem to be able to stand prosperity.

But you can't blame failure on high expectations. If we believe that the program can Improve, then at some point you have to have high expectations. Other wise success is just accidental.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

...I'm hoping for 7 wins but think 5 or 6 is more lilkely.

I don't really understand that thinking. The 'Cats lost to ISU last year and still finished with 7 wins. Lost to Syracuse in 2009 and finished with 9.

I'm bummed like everyone else, but tend to chuckle when I read the "we'll be lucky to four games" comments on other threads. Based on Fitz's track record and the schedule in front of him, 7 or 8 wins (including the post season) seem like more reasonable outlooks. That may be a sizable disappointment for many (understandable), but it wouldn't represent a bad season.

It's important to keep in mind that Duke has been a solid program under Cutcliffe and that Saturday's result only counts against the record once. Alot of things still to be determined. At this time last year we had no inkling that Austin Carr would end up of being a finalist for the Biletnikoff or that Clayton Thorson would break Basanez's single season TD record.

 

[DaCat]

I don't really understand that thought. The 'Cats lost to ISU last year and still finished with 7. Lost to Syracuse in 2009 and finished with 9.

I'm bummed like everyone else, but I tend to chuckle when I see the "we'll be lucky to four games" comments on other threads. Based on Fitz's track record, 7 or 8 wins (including the post season) seem like more reasonable outlooks. That may be a sizable disappointment for many, but it wouldn't represent a bad season.

Duke has been a solid program under Cutcliffe. Saturday's result only counts against the record once. It's important to keep that in mind.

I agree, I think we need to see the season play out. I'm clearly on the side that says we need a change in coaching for the OL. I was also concerned about the comment from Duke defenders saying that our receivers' routes were predictable. We couldn't get open all day, I didn't think our receivers were that bad or Duke was that good in coverage. Maybe it's both, but maybe it's also a schematic issue. Thorson also had accuracy issues, and Duke took away our run game. Turning points were the targeting call on McGee when we got the interception, and the fumble by Cam Green after his catch. The game got away from us, and Daniel Jones looked like Lamar Jackson, made our linebackers look slow, then made Kyle Queiro look slow too, so maybe he's just faster than he looks which I think is the case.

I'm looking to see this team bounce back strong vs. Bowling Green. If we don't.... ??? ugh.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Teams can change a LOT over the course of the season (for the better). I thought the oline play improved significantly over the course of last season, though the ceiling was evident in games vs. Minny and Wisky. I think the defense will get it together with health in secondary, more experience at LB and fixing some things up front. The biggest concern there is pass pressure up front, or lack thereof.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

...I was also concerned about the comment from Duke defenders saying that our receivers' routes were predictable. We couldn't get open all day, I didn't think our receivers were that bad or Duke was that good in coverage. Maybe it's both, but maybe it's also a schematic issue...and Duke took away our run game.

Duke has some familiarity with McCall's scheme so that can't be discounted entirely, but it's a lot easier for DBs to overplay routes when your OL can't protect for more than 2 seconds and can't get any push/open holes in the run game to keep the opposition honest.

My only critique, schematically speaking, would be McCall's inability to establish Thorson as a credible rushing threat (via read options or keepers with pulling lineman/Dickerson). I get the sense they want to keep Clayton in the pocket like they did with Kafka in 2009, but NU needed some sort of ground threat to make Duke think twice about their defensive tactics. The 'Cats couldn't get the inside/outside zone on track and boundary/bubble screens wouldn't have been an effective way to open things up because of the press coverage the Blue Devils used throughout. Austin Carr's absence was felt on Saturday. He made McCall's "man beaters" quite effective.

 

[stpaulcat]

Teams can change a LOT over the course of the season (for the better). I thought the oline play improved significantly over the course of last season, though the ceiling was evident in games vs. Minny and Wisky. I think the defense will get it together with health in secondary, more experience at LB and fixing some things up front. The biggest concern there is pass pressure up front, or lack thereof.

I thought the biggest concern was opening holes for any one of our three running backs. We seem to be able to run only around the edge, and that typically with an option or short pass.

The passing issues on Saturday were primarily Thorson had a bad day and that may have been because our WR were well covered and also being bullied by Duke's DBs.

 

[pawildcat]

But you can't blame failure on high expectations. If we believe that the program can Improve, then at some point you have to have high expectations. Other wise success is just accidental.

Nothing wrong with high expectations as long as you occasionally live up to them. The truth is that it's really hard to know what to expect from one year to the next as just the removal or addition of even a few players can affect team chemistry. Saturday's Ohio State-Oklahoma game would seem to indicate that even programs such as the Buckeyes can't just lose players with impunity.

 

[DaCat]

My only critique, schematically speaking, would be McCall's inability to establish Thorson as a credible rushing threat (via read options or keepers with pulling lineman/Dickerson). I get the sense they want to keep Clayton in the pocket like they did with Kafka in 2009, but NU needed some sort of ground threat to make Duke think twice about their defensive tactics. The 'Cats couldn't get the inside/outside zone on track and boundary/bubble screens wouldn't have been an effective way to open things up because of the press coverage the Blue Devils used throughout. Austin Carr's absence was felt on Saturday. He made McCall's "man beaters" quite effective.

The run threat was a glaring difference between Jones and Thorson. Clayton also had a few chances to take off running when his receivers weren't open, but continued to wait in the pocket.

 

[stpaulcat]

I agree, I think we need to see the season play out. I'm clearly on the side that says we need a change in coaching for the OL. I was also concerned about the comment from Duke defenders saying that our receivers' routes were predictable. We couldn't get open all day, I didn't think our receivers were that bad or Duke was that good in coverage. Maybe it's both, but maybe it's also a schematic issue. Thorson also had accuracy issues, and Duke took away our run game. Turning points were the targeting call on McGee when we got the interception, and the fumble by Cam Green after his catch. The game got away from us, and Daniel Jones looked like Lamar Jackson, made our linebackers look slow, then made Kyle Queiro look slow too, so maybe he's just faster than he looks which I think is the case.

I'm looking to see this team bounce back strong vs. Bowling Green. If we don't.... ??? ugh.

For me, the season isn't over until it's over, but based on what we saw on Saturday, and if we continue to play that kind of game, we've got maybe one more win. I can't think of a single team we will beat if we play like that, not even BG.

 

[Southport Cat]

The run threat was a glaring difference between Jones and Thorson. Clayton also had a few chances to take off running when his receivers weren't open, but continued to wait in the pocket.

Even if he didn't turn a broken pass play into a run, it felt like he was barely moving at all to escape pressure, not buying any extra time or moving towards the LOS to draw the pass defenders back and free up space for the WRs. It sure reads like the directive to CT is "STAY IN THE POCKET AT ALL COSTS." That certainly doesn't seem like something a college coach would say, so perhaps it is a mental issue.

 

[corbi296]

For me, the season isn't over until it's over, but based on what we saw on Saturday, and if we continue to play that kind of game, we've got maybe one more win. I can't think of a single team we will beat if we play like that, not even BG.

This very same statement could have been made last year and in every other season we have started slow. This team will improve and we'll play up to the level of competition like we almost always do.

 

[freewillie07]

Even if he didn't turn a broken pass play into a run, it felt like he was barely moving at all to escape pressure, not buying any extra time or moving towards the LOS to draw the pass defenders back and free up space for the WRs. It sure reads like the directive to CT is "STAY IN THE POCKET AT ALL COSTS." That certainly doesn't seem like something a college coach would say, so perhaps it is a mental issue.

I believe this was the first game of Thorson's career in which he didn't have a single positive rushing attempt.

Wtf.

 

[Southport Cat]

I believe this was the first game of Thorson's career in which he didn't have a single positive rushing attempt.

Wtf.

Wow, that seems telling. I suppose now he and the coaches will have to adjust, or teams with better defensive fronts will eat us alive.

 

[willycat]

This very same statement could have been made last year and in every other season we have started slow. This team will improve and we'll play up to the level of competition like we almost always do.

Just a thought, why the hell does NU always start slow? Losses to Cal, NIU, Ill. St., W.Mich. and now Duke. Who's next...Bowling Green?

 

[willycat]

Even if he didn't turn a broken pass play into a run, it felt like he was barely moving at all to escape pressure, not buying any extra time or moving towards the LOS to draw the pass defenders back and free up space for the WRs. It sure reads like the directive to CT is "STAY IN THE POCKET AT ALL COSTS." That certainly doesn't seem like something a college coach would say, so perhaps it is a mental issue.

Maybe he's saving himself for the NFL.

 

[corbi296]

Just a thought, why the hell does NU always start slow? Losses to Cal, NIU, Ill. St., W.Mich. and now Duke. Who's next...Bowling Green?

It has not always been the case, but it is certainly true of late. Do you ever try to look for positives in situations? It might do you some good to look at things from a different perspective. Just a thought.

 

[Hungry Jack]

I thought the biggest concern was opening holes for any one of our three running backs. We seem to be able to run only around the edge, and that typically with an option or short pass.

The passing issues on Saturday were primarily Thorson had a bad day and that may have been because our WR were well covered and also being bullied by Duke's DBs.

I posted this another thread:

In order of seriousness / difficulty to fix:
1) Offensive line run blocking
2) DE play - run anchoring and pass pressure; kids need to grow up fast.
3) LBs - lots of bad reads it seems; inexperience is showing a bit though Nagel and Hall have plenty of time in the saddle.
4) CT - better play calling can help with some of his issues; timing with new receivers should improve as season goes on (let's hope)
5) CBs - injuries are the biggest issue; hope RoCamp, Bullock and Mayo heal up soon

 

[DaCat]

Wow, that seems telling. I suppose now he and the coaches will have to adjust, or teams with better defensive fronts will eat us alive.

McCall needs to put in some new wrinkles on offense... seems we're too predictable. He opened the game with a WR sweep, and Jelanie Roberts picked up decent yardage. He tried it two more times, and by the third time, even I could tell when watching on TV that it was going to be a WR run, though this time it was Lees, I believe, and it was stopped cold for a loss.

Also, Dickerson landed awkwardly early in the game, and he was very quiet after that. I hope he's okay.

 

[stpaulcat]

This very same statement could have been made last year and in every other season we have started slow. This team will improve and we'll play up to the level of competition like we almost always do.

Thank you, I needed that.

We might have done better had it not been for the bogus targeting, although likely still would not have won. Sometimes adversity piles on and we can't shake it right away. However, other teams are going to shake us up early in the game--I do hope we're not that fragile that we can't rebound. The change of momentum at the end of the second quarter was encouraging, but for some reason, we sunk back down again.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

For me, the season isn't over until it's over, but based on what we saw on Saturday, and if we continue to play that kind of game, we've got maybe one more win. I can't think of a single team we will beat if we play like that, not even BG.

Wow, one more win? We stunk the place up on Saturday, but there is next to no chance we don't win any more games. Still think we can get to 7.

Don't go near any sharp objects.

 

[beetlemania74]

Just a thought, why the hell does NU always start slow? Losses to Cal, NIU, Ill. St., W.Mich. and now Duke. Who's next...Bowling Green?

Up until that loss to Cal to start the 2014 season, Fitz had never lost an opening game as a head coach. Until that season, his teams had always started strong and then faded later in the season (usually in October). 2014 and 2016 were different, with two OOC losses in each of those seasons. This season is starting out on shaky ground as well.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Just a thought, why the hell does NU always start slow? Losses to Cal, NIU, Ill. St., W.Mich. and now Duke. Who's next...Bowling Green?

Interesting to note that 3 of the teams you single out, we actually beat in a recent early game. Duke twice, Cal and W Michigan. Also, beat Vandy, Syracuse and of course Stanford, which also is omitted.

The quality of play Saturday was putrid, but let's not paint a picture that we rarely win early, but it did fit the negative narrative.

 

[catfans5]

It has not always been the case, but it is certainly true of late. Do you ever try to look for positives in situations? It might do you some good to look at things from a different perspective. Just a thought.

I am trying to find the positive. Bad early starts directly affects the ability to get folks to go to games. BG is now a really hard sell. I give my tix to folks to go.

Further, early crap performances certainly indicate that NU is a crap team. You and others may know better, but the casual fan in Chicago area, at least in my opinion, has and will think, "Why waste my time? NU blows." I also think it destroys the millions of dollars spent on the ad campaign.

 

[hdhntr1]

Duke has some familiarity with McCall's scheme so that can't be discounted entirely, but it's a lot easier for DBs to overplay routes when your OL can't protect for more than 2 seconds and can't get any push/open holes in the run game to keep the opposition honest.

My only critique, schematically speaking, would be McCall's inability to establish Thorson as a credible rushing threat (via read options or keepers with pulling lineman/Dickerson). I get the sense they want to keep Clayton in the pocket like they did with Kafka in 2009, but NU needed some sort of ground threat to make Duke think twice about their defensive tactics. The 'Cats couldn't get the inside/outside zone on track and boundary/bubble screens wouldn't have been an effective way to open things up because of the press coverage the Blue Devils used throughout. Austin Carr's absence was felt on Saturday. He made McCall's "man beaters" quite effective.

Everyone felt the need to keep him healthy or flush the season. Seeing Alviti get a few snaps may help temper that fear.

 

[DaCat]

I am trying to find the positive. Bad early starts directly affects the ability to get folks to go to games. BG is now a really hard sell. I give my tix to folks to go.

Further, early crap performances certainly indicate that NU is a crap team. You and others may know better, but the casual fan in Chicago area, at least in my opinion, has and will think, "Why waste my time? NU blows." I also think it destroys the millions of dollars spent on the ad campaign.

Your internet persona can come across as being callous sometimes but I admire your efforts to drum up the support for the Cats. The main attraction, besides watching a winning team, is seeing guys like Thorson and Justin Jackson put on a show. Coming into the season, the offense was looking real good. Not after the Duke debacle. Hopefully we get untracked against Bowling Green in time for the Big 10 schedule.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

Everyone felt the need to keep him healthy or flush the season. Seeing Alviti get a few snaps may help temper that fear.

There's a middle ground between trying to keep Clayton healthy and completely taking away a valuable part of his game/the offense. Not sure what happened on that front Saturday, but the usage rate was off. NU needs to be able to get some production out of Thorson's legs moving forward.

If that isn't feasible (not sure why it wouldn't be), I'd be in favor of seeing the Alviti package be put to use on occasion. Matt showed some ability to get outside the pocket in limited action on Saturday. Perhaps, his hips have healed up enough to regain some of his effectiveness as a runner.

 

[stpaulcat]

Wow, one more win? We stunk the place up on Saturday, but there is next to no chance we don't win any more games. Still think we can get to 7.

Don't go near any sharp objects.

I repeat, "However, other teams are going to shake us up early in the game--I do hope we're not that fragile that we can't rebound. The change of momentum at the end of the second quarter was encouraging, but for some reason, we sunk back down again."

We will win more than one more, but not if we don't overcome this factor.

 

[mickbula]

What do I think we/this team needs? I think we need for the local papers and BTN analysts to claim that we are the absolute worst team in the BIG! Furthermore, they need to tell the team that they suck and smell like elephant poop! Then, maybe when they do, we/this team will start playing like a winner! Just like last year. Teddy Greenstein rated us the worst team in the BIG and that we would be the underdog in every game for the rest of the season after the ISU debacle. It was at that point that we started to kick some butt. Why can't we/our team play well when the pundits say good things about us? I don't know. But I am hoping the football Gods start motivating us to play like a winner. On Saturday, we were far from winners. We were losers. Sure- Duke most likely will beat a bunch more games this season. But please...tell the experts to tell us that we have no chance. For some crazy reason that is the only time we play like we are capable of.

 

[DaCat]

Sometimes Fitz can get a little smug. Going into the Duke game, he allegedly said it was better to play against a real team like Nevada than a practice game against a FCS team like Duke, implying that we would be better prepared.

 

[catfans5]

Your internet persona can come across as being callous sometimes but I admire your efforts to drum up the support for the Cats. The main attraction, besides watching a winning team, is seeing guys like Thorson and Justin Jackson put on a show. Coming into the season, the offense was looking real good. Not after the Duke debacle. Hopefully we get untracked against Bowling Green in time for the Big 10 schedule.

I may come off that way, but I do not buy the crapola from PF. I have never been enamored with PF. Never will be. Did not go NU and have no loyalty to him. Just watch the game and product put on the field.

Thorson and JJTBC are fine examples for loyal NU fans, but not the causal Chicago fan. They do not know who they are. After 21 years of season tickets, (I know I am not a long time sufferer, but I also had b-ball tix for 12 year), I still get folks to come by telling them the game will be against PSU, the 4th ranked team in the country or the fall back that we are having a really good tailgate. NU football is not the attraction. At this point, I think that is really, really sad and is a direct commentary on PF.

By the way, people are already asking me about b-ball games.

 

[D_C_B]

We need to go about 3-9 or 4-8 before Fitz considers firing the OL coach. Our other units deserve better. It isnt right for Fitz to continue this heavy OL tax burden on our recruits and players. The OL doesnt know what its doing.

My simple unprofessional view of it sees too many of our guys just standing around, looking around, somewhat lost and disengaged as to what precisely to do - too soon after the snap and through the end of too many plays.

It seems like most of them are out of the play within a second or two and seemingly just lost from there...

Am I the only one seeing this? It's downright depressing to see 3 of 5 and sometimes even 4 of 5 of our guys disengaged at the end of every stinking play! I can't remember the last running play where I saw all 5 engaged with a defender all the way through the whistle.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I may come off that way, but I do not buy the crapola from PF. I have never been enamored with PF. Never will be. Did not go NU and have no loyalty to him. Just watch the game and product put on the field.

Thorson and JJTBC are fine examples for loyal NU fans, but not the causal Chicago fan. They do not know who they are. After 21 years of season tickets, (I know I am not a long time sufferer, but I also had b-ball tix for 12 year), I still get folks to come by telling them the game will be against PSU, the 4th ranked team in the country or the fall back that we are having a really good tailgate. NU football is not the attraction. At this point, I think that is really, really sad and is a direct commentary on PF.

By the way, people are already asking me about b-ball games.

You sound like a Bear fan.

 

[mikewebb68]

Thank you, I needed that.

We might have done better had it not been for the bogus targeting, although likely still would not have won. Sometimes adversity piles on and we can't shake it right away. However, other teams are going to shake us up early in the game--I do hope we're not that fragile that we can't rebound. The change of momentum at the end of the second quarter was encouraging, but for some reason, we sunk back down again.

Never underestimate the value of momentum, especially in the college game. I have seen college game after college game where the game was over after an injury and rejection after a key juncture. You don't think Jones (and his teammates) get down on themselves after he throws his second consecutive red zone pick if there is no targeting call? Do we capitalize immediately on the pick and make it a 10-0 game, much like we did on the turnover later n the half when we had zero momemtum?