Williams is really a safety playing corner. He can rally and tackle well but he does not have Newsome’s length or coverage skills. I think there will be some contested jump ball situations on Saturday and Newsome would come in really handy against ND WRs.
Notre Dame
- Thread starter NU Houston
- Start date
Williams is really a safety playing corner. He can rally and tackle well but he does not have Newsome’s length or coverage skills. I think there will be some contested jump ball situations on Saturday and Newsome would come in really handy against ND WRs.
This is a really bad scouting report.
A HC that has won 2 National Coach of the Year awards. The only coach to lead two different P5 programs to 12-0 seasons.
A QB with a low ceiling who leads the nation in completion percentage & is 3rd in efficiency.
A weak schedule, despite being currently ranked #2 Strength of Record in the country (#1 until this week).
And you obviously didn’t watch any of the games you mentioned above. ND wasnt fortunate to beat BSU & Vandy, ND led the entire games.
And ND handled Michigan. ND scored TD’s on 3 of first 4 possessions (with a QB who couldn’t throw) & then shut it down. ND’s D gave up 3 points to UM when it mattered. UM scored a TD on a KO return & another with 2 minutes to go with ND in soft zone coverage.
That was when Michigan was stronger, not ND. Michigan had a healthy Gary, and other defenders that they didn’t after. ND’s offense was horrible without Book & Williams. (23 vs 41 ppg).
Exactly. Duke outplayed us on both lines.
Akron had enough players who made the big plays when opportunities presented themselves. Last I checked, turnovers count. Akron made the very most of them, and for that they deserve credit.
Michigan’s offense that played NU was head and shoulders above the offense that played ND thanks to the development of the QB. Their defense was also at full strength when they played NU.
You know for sure you're reading a product of delusion when someone claims ND shut down their offense after 4 possessions in a game vs Michigan. I can understand shutting down your defense in the 2nd half vs a very inept Navy team. But coasting on offense for the majority of a game vs Michigan might be the most insane comment I have ever read on a message board. Thanks for the LOL. Otherwise, your post adds nothing to the discussion. Just the same old excuses for poor play fans with inflated perceptions cling to. Look ... ND is good this year. Not no. 2 in the country good. But definitely top 15-20 good. Hard to place them higher than that when their actual performance against very bad to just average teams ( 6 in a row since UM ) has been less than inspiring.
GOUNUII
I grabbed a bunch of the NW posters ITT, so we can do an actual scouting report.....then we can go back and deal with some of the other insanity ITT (if need be)
Notre Dame Scouting Report - Offense:
First, it's important to realize that stylistically, the ND offense that NW will face is completely different than the ND offense that played during weeks 1-3....both for good and for ill. The reasons: ND now has Ian Book starting at QB and Dexter Williams starting at RB, players they "didn't have" during weeks 1-3 (Michigan, Ball State, Vanderbilt)
Passing Game
The current ND offense is mainly a laterally-oriented "power spread" that utilizes a lot of RPO's. This version of the offense is really QB driven, and it's being driven by a QB who is EXTREMELY ACCURATE but doesn't/can't push the ball downfield very effectively. As a result, you'll see tons of quick throws that are either behind the LOS or within 5 yards of it....and typically they're almost all completed. Those passes can go to our big WRs, our TEs, or our RBs...and are honestly split up pretty evenly.
Run Game
As far as the run game, you'll see a lot of the "traditional" shot-gun and pistol formations, as well as some of the read-option game. We have 2 RBs that are emerging as a truly dangerous (Dexter Williams and Jafar Armstrong). They're both missed time.....but they're both averaging about 100 rushing/receiving yards per game and are both BIG TIME threats to make big plays (13 TDs between them, despite missing nearly half the season). Book is also athletic and elusive enough to add to the run game. Most of his "rushes" are just scrambles, but he picks up ~40 yards on designed-run and read-option plays each week, often converting on 3rd Downs if teams drop 7+ into man coverage.
Offensive Line
This line has been a bit erratic, which is shocking considering that it has to replace 2 1st Round NFL Draft picks from last year (maybe 3, with the injury to Alex Bars). Some changes were made during the BYE week, getting more talented young players into the lineup. They looked great against Navy, but NW will be a much better test. Overall, this group has been good at pass blocking, but has been prone to 1-2 mental lapses per game. The run blocking has not been as good.....or at the very least has been erratic. One huge question for this game will be whether the "new look OL" can get good push in the run game against a veteran and fairly talented NW front.
WRs and TEs
This unit is built more around size than speed. But that being said, they've be pretty good at generating chunk plays through the passing game. You're going to see a lot of "back shoulder passes" to our outside WRs Miles Boykin and Chase Claypool. Boykin is 6'4" 225lbs and Claypool is 6'5" 230lbs, so it can be very tough to defend these passes when thrown well....which Book has typically done when the pass is only 5-10 yards. We also make heavy use of our Slot WR (Finke) when teams move their safeties to help in the run game and on the outside, leaving a DB 1v1. This unit has been good at using their size to play "pitch and catch" with an accurate QB for lots of short games...but they're not downfield burners.
How to Beat the ND Offense
Unless you have Alabama/Clemson talent on the DL, you have to attack attack attack against the ND defense. Taking risks has paid off for opponents.
First, you need to disrupt the rhythm passing game. This means that you need to press the outside WRs as much as possible, trying to takeaway or at least disrupt the quick outside throws. Then you need to make Book uncomfortable in the pocket, probably though various blitzes. Book's biggest issue has been a tendency to get happy feet and overreact to pressure, making poor decisions and missing opportunities. Blitzing LB and S's will be a must, but CB's are going to have to come from time-to-time as well. This was what Pitt used to great affect (at least for 1 half).
Next you need to ensure that you're biltzing the interior and have both contain and prusuit to the edges for the run game. The ND RB's are big play guys, with numerous long TDs, so even 1 letdown in contain and/or pursuit could result in a quick 7. At the same time, ND's OL and our QB + RBs have really struggled with interior blitzes, stunts, and twists. Moving around your front an being agressive, while also using Safeties to protect from the big run plays, is a "must".
You can't defend everything, so what you should "let ND have" is the shots down the field in the passing game....as long as you do enough with your pressure to make Book uncomfortble. Book doesn't have a great arm, so he has to work hard to push the ball downfield.....and as a result isn't overly accurate past 20+ yards. Compounding that is the fact that ND's WR's are downfield burners + the fact that Book has a tendency towards happy-feet that can cause him to leave the pocket before necessary, disrupting downfield vision and timing.
Ultimately, ND can make plays downfield, and if we do....that's just the way it is. We'll score a lot of points.
But that's the clear weakness of our offense, so that's what you should try to force us to be your with.
To recap:
- Press/disrupt the outside WR near the LOS
- Blitz, stunt, and twist A LOT
- Focus your blitzes up the middle and use different players to keep a young QB guessing an uncomfortable
- Deploy your safeties against the run, near the LOS
- Keep contain. Keep contain. Keep contain.
- Simply accept big risks on the downfield passing game, and hope that we do you a few favors and miss those oppertunties (which we've shown a propensity to do)
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I'm not clear on why you quoted me. My post had nothing to do with what kind of team ND has. It might interest you to know - or it might not - that my son, daughter-in-law, son-in-law, and nephew all have ND degrees so I usually cheer, cheer for old Notre Dame. So what the hell?
ND current Strength of Schedule
Sagarin 45th.
SB Nation 55th.
Please tell me how hard your schudule had been.
https://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/sagarin/
https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...ll-2018-strength-of-schedule-week-10-rankings
I quoted tons and tons of NW posters, just to get the discussion back towards football. Plus if I was going to right that much, I wanted to get NW posters to respond.
It didn’t have anything to do with your post or family degrees
(FYI I got my first one from ND but have multiple family members that went to both ND and NW)
Goal was to talk some football.
So how is that #2 again?
It is NDs second road game in a row and last week they had to prepare for Navy. Have to think they might be a little out of sync as almost nothing they did to prepare for Navy will help them against NU. They will obviously be tough with top rated talent at every position. But we have faced that before
Great! I don’t have a degree from either. It’s a long story.
My family is nuts for college football, and we are loaded with fans of both teams. This Saturday is like Christmas morning for us.
In spite of my interest in both teams, I don’t have a feel for this game. It all depends on which Northwestern team shows up. I make a habit of not making predictions, but for this one, I couldn’t predict even if someone forced me to do so.
Nothing here inconsistent with what I posted in short form. Lot's of much appreciated Xs and Os detail, but nothing inconsistent. Except you left out the part regarding whether all this info/opinion ads up to a much better team than ND has shown on the field to date. One that can back up their elite national ranking on the field. That's really what people want to know. Is NU taking on a team that belongs among the Alabamas and Clemsons of the game? Among the next tier Oklahomas and OSUs and Georgias of the game? Or among the more numerous third tier teams? It's been a very long time since ND belonged among the elite teams in the Country. Right now they are playing 3rd tier football against what has turned out to be a cup cake schedule. Are they capable of more? Probably. Have we seen it yet? No.
GOUNUII
GOUNUII
When ND loses it is because...reasons. Any close games were because...reasons. Award winning coach. Kick off returns don’t count. Got it.
Here’s a question: what % of the ND fan base thinks they should be ranked #2?
Here’s a question: what % of the ND fan base thinks they should be ranked #2?
On to the defense...
Notre Dame Scouting Report - Defense:
Run Defense
ND's run defense has been pretty good. The stats are a bit skewed by playing some EXTREMELY run heavy offenses (Navy, Pitt, etc.) and by playing deep-backups in a couple blowouts (Wake Forest, Virginia Tech). Notre Dame has 5 players with 5+ TFL....for comparison sake, NW has 1. This DL is extremely athletic and disruptive. I legitimately may be THE MOST DISRUPTIVE in the nation. It has 3 sure-fire NFL players starting for it, and 1-2 more (at least) rotating in. At LB, we're extremely talented and veteran, but very thin. Seniors Coney (MLB) and Tranquil (WLB) had been tackling and play making machines...but Tranquil was injured against Navy. Unclear if he'll miss time or how much time he'll miss.....but he'll be missed BADLY if he's not on the field. However, ND's safeties have really developed against the run as well. Gilman (SS) is a tackling machine as well, and he just makes plays against the run. Anyone short of Bama who wants to run the ball against ND is going to have to be very dedicated, because we're simply too talented to not make some plays. However, with Tranquil out, I wouldn't be shocked if you could break a few runs if you remain very dedicated to the run and just accept that it's not going to go your way on some drives.
Pass Defense
Notre Dame finally, finally has elite athletes to attack the pass BOTH up front and on the back end. Jerry Tillery is and all American at DT and one of the nations sack leaders. We have 3 DE that are all among the most disruptive in the nation. We can flat out get after the passer.
On the backend, we have two NFL talents at CB, which is extremely rare for Notre Dame. Julian love is another all American, and Troy pride may be more physically talented than him. Our safeties aren’t as fabulous, but they’re finally good, after taking a couple years to develop. They are solid players.
In between, our LB are really good at rushing the passer, but have been a liability in coverage. That’s definitely something northwestern will want to attack with the quick passing game… Even more so if tranquil is out.
Defensive Line
This is the best DL that we have had in decades. We have 3 NFL level edge rusher’s and a probable the 1st round pick on the interior. One of our interior spots is not manned by an NFL level talent, but it is held by a solid 5th year senior who does a good job doing the dirty work. He rotates with another younger player who does the same. This is one of, if not the most, disruptive defensive fronts in all of CFB.
Linebacker
This unit has great talent and experience with it starters, at least two of which will be headed to the NFL after the season. They’re both better attacking the backfield and against the run then they are against the past, but they’ve been solid against past the season. However, one of those starters (tranquil) put his ankle last week and may not play this week. His status is unknown. If he is out, there is likely a huge drop Off to whoever replaces him, because that player will have very little experience. If he is out, I would expect us to play more nickel than normal.
Defensive Back
As mentioned above, this is the best DB unit Notre Dame has had in a very long time. We have a legit all American at CB, another NFL talent at CB, and both of our safeties may end up in the NFL as well. The safeties haven’t been as fabulous, but they’ve really developed this year and are finally a solid playmaking group. Our NB is very talented, but is a true freshman and has been vulnerable in coverage against advanced route runners. That’s another place for northwestern to attack.
How to beat this Notre Dame defense
This is very, very hard to do this year. Opponents have only booking 20 points against Notre Dame is in garbage time of blowouts. That being said, there are some vulnerabilities to attack.
The most important thing is to get the ball out quickly. This DL is so disruptive that any long developing plays are likely to result in lost yardage. Whether it’s three-step drops and quick passing game, RPO, option football, or something else… The #BAL needs to come out quickly.
Next, the best place to attack this defense is in the middle against the LB and NB passing game. These two positions have not been fantastic against quick passing attacks, especially against WR who run good routes out of the slot. This maybe even more vulnerable out of it with the loss of tranquil.
In the run game, we’ve been far more valuable to quick hitting runs from option attacks than we have against more traditional rushing attacks. The key here is to run inside out. Given our talent at DT and LB it’s very hard to run up the middle, no one has had much success there. However, given our athleticism at DB and the newfound physicality of our safeties, It’s not very effective to just run outside either. The most effective runs have been quick hitting option and it runs that start up the middle and a lot of the RB to see if there is space on the outside and if so bounce it out.
Finally, we’ve also been vulnerable to scramble’s from the QB position, much more than we really should be. It seems that we often over pursue or lose contain unnecessarily.
To recap:
- Get the ball out quickly.
- Quick passing attacks and RPO have been the most effective
- Use the QB in the run game
- Use quick hitting runs out of option locks, starting up the gut and look to bounce from outside
When opposing QBs have failed to except this and tried to do too much, is when we’ve been able to force game breaking turnovers.
NW deserved the win. when coaches go for 2 for no sane reason and other idiotic things the team deserves to lose.
Well I think you completely missed characterized Ian book at QB and vastly underrated our defense and our emerging Barbie. So I disagree that my post is not inconsistent with your post.
As to “how good it is Notre Dame”, I think your phrasing of the question is misleading. I think that Alabama is on its own level completely. I don’t think Clemson is anywhere close to that.
Clemson is the next best team, but they are much closer to the rest of us, not on a different level.
As for Notre Dame, since Ian book took over at QB we are averaging over 40 points/game while allowing only 20 points/game… And it usually 7 of those come during garbage time after the game has already been decided and back ups are in.
So we are winning by an average margin of 3 to 4 D. That’s pretty good.
In addition to that, we’ve shown that we can beat quality opponents. Regardless of the questions that surround Michigan, our victory over them is definitely one of the better victories so far this year. We currently controlled that game from start to finish, never trailing.
So I would say that Notre Dame is on the same level as Clemson Ohio State Oklahoma Michigan or anyone else that you want to put in that “good but not Alabama” tier.
That does not mean that Notre Dame can’t be beat. Obviously Pittsburgh was very close. Similarly, Ohio State lost to print out, Oklahoma nearly lost top army, Clemson nearly lost to Syracuse, etc.
Additionally, as you have stated, we have yet to see what the real ceiling of this Notre Dame team is. They have not played 60 minutes of their best football with Ian book at QBE yet this season. They have been flashes of it, but not sustained top level performance.
But given that they are averaging over 40 points in a holding opponents below 20 with that level of performance… That’s saying something.
I do think that Notre Dame is more vulnerable to an upset man Clemson is, but I’m not sure that there any more valuable than other teams like Ohio State, Michigan, Oklahoma, etc.
Is it just me, or is anyone now really worried about our chances after this post?
Seems like it’s setting up just like 2012 for ND.
Feasting off an easy schedule (while looking pretty damn unimpressive) and won’t have to win a conference championship to get in the playoffs.
Please Northwestern, do the country a favor and save us from having to watch another 30 point ND loss at the hands of Bama or Clemson on the big stage come January.
Feasting off an easy schedule (while looking pretty damn unimpressive) and won’t have to win a conference championship to get in the playoffs.
Please Northwestern, do the country a favor and save us from having to watch another 30 point ND loss at the hands of Bama or Clemson on the big stage come January.
I mean, ND already beat a current Top 5 overall team.
Which other undefeated team can claim that??
Seems like an odd complaint, agaisnt the only undefeated team with a top level win.
Michigan certainly wasn’t playing like a top 5 team to start the season, and their current best wins are against 3-loss Wisconsin and a bad MSU team. They don’t even have a win over a currently-ranked opponent. Yet somehow, Michigan and ND finished the game with identical stats (Michigan actually outgaining ND and leading in TOP). Take away that pass into double coverage and what should have been sure interception in the end zone and who knows what happens.
ND certainly didn’t look like the #3 team in the country when playing against Vandy, Ball State and Pitt (same Pitt that PSU waxed 51-6). Compare that to what Bama and Clemson are doing to the comparative cupcakes on their schedule.
ND vs. Clemson/Bama will not be pretty. Domers best bet would be for Michigan to somehow sneak into playoffs and for ND to draw them first round.
So you take away NDs TD but are fine with a KO Return for a TD for Michigan? And have no problem with the fact that Michigan didn’t score a single offensive point until the last 2-minutes is the game, when ND went to prevent defense because he game was over?
You know that ND literally never trailed in that game, right? And Michigan’s only offensive points came during the last 2 minutes, during garbage time, agasint prevent D??
And that the other 2 games you pointed to in order to support your point....were the 2 games without our starting QB or staring RB?
And how different is the Clemson/Syracuse game again??
Bama is on another level, obviously. But ND is right there with the other teams.
What’s your argument again?
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You know that you don’t have to talk like this right? You know that you can make your point without coming across like an a-hole? That you can present your points as statements of fact without forming them as condescending questions? You’re aware that this style is a huge turnoff, right? And just makes you seem overly defensive and insecure?
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Clemson's QB was injured in the second quarter of the Syracuse game and their senior starter who got beaten out had just left the team, so they had a QB in there who had hardly played (and they still came back and won!) . I would say their blowout win at FSU is more indicative of the talent they have. Book has made ND a lot better than they were early. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out. Hoping for a fun game on Saturday.
You realize a field goal, which Michigan kicked in the 2nd Q constitutes “offensive points”??
And that Michigan was without their starting WR and Safety??
Book and Williams both started against Pitt, but Williams averaged a little over 2 yards per carry against a rush defense that ranks right around 100th in the nation??
Smart play would be to take NU and the points this weekend. If ND sneaks into the playoffs this post-season, I’ve got an inkling that Brian Kelly’s face will be a deeper shade of purple than the Wildcats home jersey this weekend.
Correction. Michigan’s best win was against Northwestern. A team that beat Wisconsin and MSU by double digits.
GOUNUII
Yeah, I think pretty much NU fan read that and thought "huh?". Whether it's fair or not, that is a perfect indicator of the general national perception of NU despite on field play over the last several years.
I really like this. I don't know how high NU is going to soar this year, but at some point someone, somewhere will consider a win against NU a *good* win or a loss not necessarily as a *bad* loss. Michigan came from behind and behind a dominating defense won a close and hard-fought game on the road against the Big Ten West leader. If that's anyone else than Northwestern, that's signature win for the season for a lot of teams.
You realize a field goal, which Michigan kicked in the 2nd Q constitutes “offensive points”??
And that Michigan was without their starting WR and Safety??
Book and Williams both started against Pitt, but Williams averaged a little over 2 yards per carry against a rush defense that ranks right around 100th in the nation??
Smart play would be to take NU and the points this weekend. If ND sneaks into the playoffs this post-season, I’ve got an inkling that Brian Kelly’s face will be a deeper shade of purple than the Wildcats home jersey this weekend.
So you have nothing to say, at all.
“ND hasn’t blown out every single opponent...and I’ve decided that makes them bad”
Troll on.
There is nothing wrong with calling out obviously bad logic and obvious trolling.
Especially not when I’ve been trying to get this board to actually discuss the game/matchup in some meaningful way.
Win the conference. Repeat several times. NU will no longer be the so-called "trap game." Even so, it's laughable that fans of any other Big Ten school not named Michigan and Ohio State still think that.
That was arguably the most frustrating thing about last year: by mid-November, we were the only "currently ranked" team that Wisconsin had beaten, and so when people were comparing resumes on the major networks/radio/etc., they'd say Wisconsin had played a weaker schedule with "it's best win was a win against Northwestern"... in a negative way, especially the SEC-affiliated people on ESPN who were pushing for 2 SEC teams to get into the playoff. [I get that they're going to be negative, but we want "your best win was Northwestern" to be as positive as "your best win was Stanford" is today].
It sucks, but the reality is we have to change what it means to win or lose to us. We want it to be a quality win or a quality loss in a way that isn't negative.
The only way to do that is to have significant and sustained success. The checklist for significant and sustained success (imo):
1) Win the conference every 10-12 years or less. -Incomplete
2) Win the division outright (championship game bid) every 6 years or less and at least challenge deep into November for the division every 3 years (at most 1 or 2 B1G losses in early November) -Closing in on this, 2017-2018 are getting to this point.
3) Go to NY6 bowls (Rose or the other 5) every 8-10 years or so. -Incomplete
4) Go to bowls 80% of the time and win them 50+% of the time. -Currently Looking Good
5) Get preseason and postseason rankings every 2-3 years as well as spending several weeks ranked. -Close to achieving this, plenty of weeks ranked in 2012-13, 2015, 2017
6) Win big games on big stages during the season (Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan or programs like them when they're highly ranked). -Incomplete, mostly beaten them in down years the past decade. 2004 was last time we beat any of those 3 ranked, the Ohio State game.
If you want to know the difference between "your best win was Stanford" and "your best win was Northwestern" is; they've accomplished all of those things the past decade, and even above what those benchmarks are. We're still a bit away on some of them, but the future is bright here, I think we can get to those benchmarks.
I've been thinking about this.
The primary reason is we handed them 21 points via turnover. No brag just fact.
I've been thinking about this.
The primary reason is we handed them 21 points via turnover. No brag just fact.
It really tells me that better talented teams should win the game but does not always happen
That's the truth. One of the reasons the game is so much fun and yet so frustrating.
Or, don't lost to Akron, ISU, NIU etc. I've actually seen a lot of ND fans give NU a lot of credit and say they are the toughest game remaining. If we hadn't lost that debacle against Akron then we would be 6-2 with a respectable loss to Duke and a hard fought loss to Michigan. The narrative would be different.
NU is a whole different team now with Thorson clicking and the defense playing lights out.
THIS Northwestern team doesn’t blow a 17 pt lead.
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