In defense of the WS pitchers, the Astros were the best hitting team in MLB this season, with the second fewest number of strikeouts. Teams try to pitch around them but don't really have much success doing so.
OT: NL will use DH for EVER :(
- Thread starter FeralFelidae
- Start date
Come on man, you know better than that. McCullers’ pitching won game 1 for the Astros. The Sox don’t have anybody that resembles an ace like that who can start 2 playoff games in a series and shutdown the opposing lineup no matter how good they are. To win a WS you need two of those guys but you have no chance if you don’t have at least one. The Sox have none.
Last year, he was consistently 100-101. You can be straight at that speed.
Wonder how many the Cubs will get…. Sox game is sold out but plenty available on the secondary market.
There are exactly 2 team’s remaining in the playoffs that has 2 of those guys. Corbi this isn’t 1980 or even 2005. There hasn’t been a single SP in this years playoff that has lasted 7 innings. These are the ones and 2’s of each team. The teams with the 2 best regular season records don’t even have one on their staff. You have no chance if you don’t have a BULLPEN. None.
Just because they are not going deeper into games, doesn’t mean starters aren’t dominant and decisive in today’s playoff games. Yes, bullpens have improved and become more important, which gives managers the luxury to not overuse their aces and makes it more likely they can start twice, maybe three times in a seven game series. That does not mean you can underestimate the importance of a dominant starter, just because they are utilized differently in today’s game. A dominant starter who goes 5 or 6 innings of shutout or 1 run ball vs. an opponents starter who can’t make it through 4 without giving up 4 or 5 runs is still going to be the determining factor in the series. Starting pitching remains the most important factor for playoff success.
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I love this guy. Is consistently proven wrong and is such a snowflake that he hides the posts of those that call him out and keeps making boisterous and wrong statements like the expert he is not.
Of course 5 innings of shut out ball is better than 4 innings of giving up 4. You act like there are a bevy of SP’s that are going 5 shut out innings and the Sox SP sucks. Scherzer is probably the best Sp in the playoffs and he couldn’t get out of the 4th. How do Yankee fans feel about Gerrit Cole? Sale made 1 inning giving up 5 tonight. You already admitted that you don’t watch/follow the Sox or any other team not called the Cubs, so I’ll ask again who are today’s Ace’s? Maybe one will emerge in this years playoffs, but couldn’t name him right now.
McCullers pitched a great game against the Sox like he usually does. Now go compare his stats this year against Lance Lynn. Pretty damn similar if you ask me. There is not a Grand Canyon sized gap between the two. Now they are heading in opposite directions age wise as far as being in their prime but the is not relevant to this years conversation.
My point is there are very few of these shut down SP’s in the league and even less in the playoffs. The days of Bob Gibson or Jack Morris almost single handedly winning a WS are a bygone era. Sure you look brilliant lambasted the Sox quality of SP and I look brilliant insisting Darvish was a fraud. The common denominator is failed SP and both of us are much more likely to be able to point out bad starting pitching than pick good SP.
I will make you a gentleman’s bet. You can pick any SP in any 10 remaining playoff games and I will say no more than half of the games the SP would earn a quality start. Bullpens have become the most important component of teams for the playoffs.
Look, it’s obvious we come at this from a different point of view. You may be right that starting pitching has become less important than it was 10-15 years ago, but you won’t convince me that starting pitching is not still the most important factor in the success of a MLB team’s playoof chances (it’s not even close in my opinion) There may be fewer of those aces out there but the teams that have them have a disproportionate chance of success in the playoffs. The White Sox are not one of those teams and that has been evident all year. It doesn’t matter what they do to the rest of the roster, until they dramatically improve their starting staff this team is not a WS title contender.
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Evident all year? This guy is truly dense and blind. Sox last half of their offense and the rotation carried them for most of the year. Besides strong seasons by Lynn and Gio, unexpected great seasons by Rodon and Cease made them the champs start to finish. Only Dallas didn’t live up to the billing.
I wonder if corbi knows anything about cooking cuz my 75 year old mother knows more about sports than him. And isn’t a snowflake either.
I’m with corbi. Almost throw up to type it. The Sox pitching sucks. Up and down. Terrible. And it’s a system problem throughout. Can’t win without top shelf pitching.
I blow it all up. Fire every coach from single A to the top. Sell of all the great hitting we have acquired, keep the pitching to guarantee a couple years of good draft picks. Release every crap pitcher in the system.
And wait for reinsdorf to die and pray someone comes in with a desire to win and understanding about building a system. Maybe it happens tonight - hope he goes to visit his buddy Bill.
I can throw a strike. This is why the south side doesn’t come out. They see through it. I foolishly believed. Fvck em
Dumping my season tickets. Chicago sports suck.
I blow it all up. Fire every coach from single A to the top. Sell of all the great hitting we have acquired, keep the pitching to guarantee a couple years of good draft picks. Release every crap pitcher in the system.
And wait for reinsdorf to die and pray someone comes in with a desire to win and understanding about building a system. Maybe it happens tonight - hope he goes to visit his buddy Bill.
I can throw a strike. This is why the south side doesn’t come out. They see through it. I foolishly believed. Fvck em
Dumping my season tickets. Chicago sports suck.
Sox up by three now....this game's gonna go to midnight.
Nice of Grandal to take one for the team. 😵
I can’t figure out if Wainright and Piersynski are annoying or hilarious.
I did like when Pierzynski said in the aftermath of the Grandal play (actually, after Verducci’s explanation of the rule) that he’d come out of retirement to ‘cause chaos’.
I did like when Pierzynski said in the aftermath of the Grandal play (actually, after Verducci’s explanation of the rule) that he’d come out of retirement to ‘cause chaos’.
I'd give it to Tepera. He really settled things down and was able to get the game under control. It was 9-6 after four innings, basically pinball out there. The Astros bullpen settled down as well, but it was too late at that point. Tepera pitched an outstanding two innings and set the tone for the three relievers that followed him.
As much as I hated that Grandal play, I can see how it wasn't ruled interference. He certainly could have moved out of the way of the ball, but he didn't move into it.
Looked like the ballpark was rocking. More than 20,000 in attendance, from what I could tell.
2:30pm start today, following a game that went almost to midnight. We'll see how the players respond.
Ballpark was lit last night. Outside of a brief lull after Tucker's homer gave the Trashstros a 5-1 lead, not sure I've seen a crowd engaged for four and half hours for every single pitch like it was last night. Absolutely electric. The Altuve (and to a lesser degree, Bregman and Correa) chants were priceless.
What were the chants, other than "Cheater, Cheater...."? That's all I could tell from the broadcast.
I did like the old man waving his cane around like a wizard trying to cast a spell.
Game 3 rescheduled for tomorrow due to weather.
The best thing about Tepera was his comments post game about how the Astros suddenly had 16 strikeouts while they are on the road to only 16 for two games at home. Certainly, stoked the fires by implying they are still stealing signals. I loved it! Anything they can do to get them off their game,
I hope the Astros come back with McCullers for game 4. You are going to have to beat him in one game one way or another. Might as well play him in front of a rocking 20,000 at G Rate. Rain out gives kopech, Bummer, and Tepera an extra day rest. Rodon will likely still start, but Lynn will be in quickly, if trouble brews. Somehow pull that one out and Giolito goes against Valdez. That’s not an impossible victory in MM.
This may be the closest thing you have ever said to being true. I could have added F&@$ Correa to. I know the Cubbies never have inappropriate behavior in and around the ballpark. BTW Willy that 20k were pretty loud yesterday. Do you ever have a baseball take that turns out accurate? Ever?
Tepera's comments were crap. Were the Astros stealing signs when they knocked Cease out of the game after an inning and two thirds? How about when they scored three more runs off Kopech? So they steal signs at home but not on the road - that's the allegation. They scored as many runs in game three as they did in game one. They finished the season with only seven more wins at home than on the road, which is fairly balanced (especially compared to the White Sox). In 2017, the infamous year of trash can banging, they had a better record (by five games) on the road versus at home.
I hate blaming the umps, but I'll say it. The home plate ump last night was terrible, and his generous strike zone for WS pitchers had the Astros hitters chasing more pitches out of the zone. Even the announcers were admitting that the hitters were getting rung up on pitches six inches outside the plate. Maldonado threw his bat after one of his strikeouts, which is rare to see out of a catcher, and it was pretty clear that the Astros pitchers weren't getting the same calls. I'm not saying that this was the difference in the game (again, I hate making excuses and blaming umps), but it did skew the strikeout number for the Astros.
Your reaction and what Dusty said today about is exactly why you do it. I wish Tepera would have come out and called them cheaters (well he basically did). It’s all head games, doesn’t matter if it is true or not this year, but let’s not pretend their reputation isn’t earned.
are you somehow defending 2017 but comparing the Astros home and road record that year. Facts are they were caught red handed cheating. The Dodgers fans, players, entire organization were at a disadvantage. That’s why LA despises the Astros. Personally, I hope the Dodgers get another crack to right a wrong.
I know you live in Houston and are a fan of the Astros, but just think it is REALLY hard to root for your team when the same core of players from 2017 carry the team now. Sorry, they used electronic technology to gain an advantage. Danny Farquhar called out the Astros in September. So they are so arrogant they remove camera’s and make it tougher to detect. Everybody knew they were cheating. The shame of it is they great hitters, but still didn’t play it straight. If I was Tepera I would flat out call them cheaters. Springer, Correa, Bergman were part of it, yet they got their title and Hinch/Cora/Beltran and the GM took the blame. Alltuve seemed to play it straight up for the most part but he adhered to baseballs code of silence. Judge got screwed on the MVP and the Dodgers got screwed on what could have been a WS title. The players finally came out in 2020 to admit it was wrong, after denying it until the evidence was overwhelming and the owner forced the issue.
From my perspective, if the Astros lose by a bad call it is poetic justice. I am torn in the next series versus the Red Sox, because of Cora, but at least Cora paid a price. It’s no secret pretty much the entire country outside of Houston wants these guys to lose. They washed it off their hands and plenty in baseball were permanently impacted.
Thanks Genius, I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed around these NU types, but you should be the last guy on here giving out grammar lessons.
I can't really argue with what you wrote, and I won't defend 2017. I just think it's stupid for Tepera to make those allegations, because they don't even make sense. That's why I replied with the stats about home and away records. Plus, if he's "playing mind games", it may backfire on him and his team, as it provides bulletin board material to the opponent.
The one thing that does bother me about the conversation is that it's always framed as if the Astros ruined the purity of the game. Like only they cheated and no one else does. Look at the crackdown on pitchers this year. They've been putting all kinds of illegal substances on the balls for years, and MLB is finally starting to take its head out of the sand. For all we know, Tepera himself is a cheater. He's a 33 year old journeyman who bounced around the minors for six years before finally making it to the big leagues (only to go back down several times after that). Now he's finally learned to pitch? He's just one example. There's a fine line between "acceptable" cheating in MLB (i.e. cheating the old fashioned way) and what the Astros admitted to doing in 2017.
Can you guarantee that other teams haven't been cheating with the use of technology? And if the Astros cheated only in 2017, then how did they win more games (107) two years later, when Bregman hit 41 HRs (career high)? Again, I'm not defending 2017 (take the banner if you want), but I also feel that they receive a disproportionate amount of blame and attention for what is likely an endemic issue in MLB.
But, I'm going to make excuses and blame the umps.
That's weak sauce. Javier was getting the same calls off the plate. I get the increased strikeouts being attributed to a larger strike zone, but saying that the Astros weren't getting the same strike zone (they had 13 strikeouts to the Sox 16), is the height of fan crybaby-ness. You're better than that my guy.
Come on now. I said specifically that the expanded strike zone wasn't the reason why the Astros lost. In a previous post, I also said that Tepera was the player of the game, as he settled down their bullpen and led the way to keeping the Astros scoreless after the fourth inning. But when he then starts making B.S. comments comparing the Astros strikeout numbers to those in the first two games, I think it's fair game to point out that the ump's expanded and inconsistent strike zone led to the team (or both teams!) striking out more in this game. You just admitted as much as well.But, I'm going to make excuses and blame the umps.
That's weak sauce. Javier was getting the same calls off the plate. I get the increased strikeouts being attributed to a larger strike zone, but saying that the Astros weren't getting the same strike zone (they had 13 strikeouts to the Sox 16), is the height of fan crybaby-ness. You're better than that my guy.
I am not going to defend cheaters. Hank is still my HR king. Frank is my MVP not Canseco.
The difference with the Astros is this was an organization plan to develop of process to do something that was against the rules. The GM was involved in the planning in 2016. When Farquhar outed them in September 2017, They quickly pathed up their process to hide there sign stealing.
we only focus on 2017 because that was the year they won the WS. The cheating scheme ran through 2019. If Fiers hadn’t been the whistleblower they would likely still be doing this. There were at least 4 teams filing formal complaints against the Astros in 2018 & 2019. The formal MLB investigation started after the 2019 season and concluded before Spring training 2020. It didn’t stop with the WS title in 2017. The Astros would have been crucified in 2020 in opposing ball parks if there were fans. Who knows how sophisticated it was in 2018-2019 but the rumor (that wasn’t proven) was the Astros players were wearing electronic buzzers to get signals. You do remember all the fuss around Alltuve’s walk off HR off Champman where he was mobbed by teammates and he strangely did all he could to keep his jersey on. I don’t know he was wearing a buzzer like some claim, but with the Astros history you can see why suspicions arose.
I don’t like steroids, spitballs, video cheating etc. I am not naive to think it was the Astros only. However, they did it for years and were brazen in their organizational endorsement of it.
It’s there anything more Golden than a Houston journalist or even a fan complaint about fairness?
For the record, I said before the series that I expected the Astros to win the series. WS pitching mostly pen isn’t good enough to shut down a team that hits this well. Just not enough experience to topple a team that is always in the ALCS. I sure hope I am wrong and I am thrilled they moved McCullers up to start, but the only hope of the WS beating him is in GRate. So might as well get him in game 4.
I appreciate you sharing your opinion, I really do. I'm not going to defend cheaters either. I still recognize Maris at 61 and Hank at 755. Roger Clemens was one of the best pitchers in my lifetime, and he has no place in the HOF.
I was more focused on the picture than the language in the tweet, but I get your point. It's just that the ump was so eager to do his K dance that he rung up hitters on pitches six inches off the plate. I like the comparison to Leslie Nielson in Naked Gun.
