OT: NL will use DH for EVER :(

[chicagocatfan24]

Well, apparently the mods have blessed this high traffic thread for some reason…

Cesar gone, Kimbrel kept to trade and a pass on the QO for Rodon. What will they do this off-season? I like Vaughan and Co for right field. Need lots of pitching, lots. And 2b.

@chicagocatfan24 - what you thinking? And still have not heard any explanation for crochet velocity drop. TJ surgery to come?

What they're doing at this juncture makes zero ZERO zero sense with Rodon. It screams cheapness from the owner. If he signs for a big deal, which is very plausible considering what someone like... Nate Eovaldi has already done... then they won't get the comp pick solely because they were worried he'd accept the QO at 18 or 19 million. Even if he did and sucked next year, it's a 1 year deal so who cares?

Unless I'm grossly underestimating his market, which should be big now that he doesn't have the QO attached to his name, he'll sign for big money and they sox wouldn't have hedged against that. It's just stupid and makes zero sense.

Idk about Crochet's velocity, but TJS has nothing to do with it. TJS is performed when there is a tear in the UCL and your UCL is either torn or it's not. These guys get checked out constantly and they'd know if he were due for an elbow surgery. He just wasn't throwing as hard. That happens. I don't know why it happened to him, but it did. 4-5 MPH is huge, even if the pitcher is still throwing 98 like he was.

Look for sox to be all in on Conforto and jump the market on him like they did with Yaz 2 years ago

 

[NUCat320]

Go Braves!

 

[corbi296]

What they're doing at this juncture makes zero ZERO zero sense with Rodon. It screams cheapness from the owner. If he signs for a big deal, which is very plausible considering what someone like... Nate Eovaldi has already done... then they won't get the comp pick solely because they were worried he'd accept the QO at 18 or 19 million. Even if he did and sucked next year, it's a 1 year deal so who cares?

Unless I'm grossly underestimating his market, which should be big now that he doesn't have the QO attached to his name, he'll sign for big money and they sox wouldn't have hedged against that. It's just stupid and makes zero sense.

Idk about Crochet's velocity, but TJS has nothing to do with it. TJS is performed when there is a tear in the UCL and your UCL is either torn or it's not. These guys get checked out constantly and they'd know if he were due for an elbow surgery. He just wasn't throwing as hard. That happens. I don't know why it happened to him, but it did. 4-5 MPH is huge, even if the pitcher is still throwing 98 like he was.

Look for sox to be all in on Conforto and jump the market on him like they did with Yaz 2 years ago

Reinsdorf strikes again. The decisions to pick up the option on Kimbrel and not qualify Rodon were linked and both wrong. They should have done the reverse. If they think they can trade Kimbrel now and get any value out of him, they’re crazy. Rodon’s shoulder Problems are concerning but you have to protect yourself by at least providing the qualifying offer.

 

[IGNORE2]

What they're doing at this juncture makes zero ZERO zero sense with Rodon. It screams cheapness from the owner. If he signs for a big deal, which is very plausible considering what someone like... Nate Eovaldi has already done... then they won't get the comp pick solely because they were worried he'd accept the QO at 18 or 19 million. Even if he did and sucked next year, it's a 1 year deal so who cares?

Unless I'm grossly underestimating his market, which should be big now that he doesn't have the QO attached to his name, he'll sign for big money and they sox wouldn't have hedged against that. It's just stupid and makes zero sense.

Idk about Crochet's velocity, but TJS has nothing to do with it. TJS is performed when there is a tear in the UCL and your UCL is either torn or it's not. These guys get checked out constantly and they'd know if he were due for an elbow surgery. He just wasn't throwing as hard. That happens. I don't know why it happened to him, but it did. 4-5 MPH is huge, even if the pitcher is still throwing 98 like he was.

Look for sox to be all in on Conforto and jump the market on him like they did with Yaz 2 years ago

I’m surprised about Rodon too BUT they have the most knowledge about his medical condition. Beyond where and how much Rodon signs for will be what happens with him next year.

So Kopech joins the rotation and Kuechel is questionable, do the Sox make a splash for pitching? I hate the Conforti pickup - I think SP, RP and 2B are bigger priorities. But not saying you are wrong - just don’t like it.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Reinsdorf strikes again. The decisions to pick up the option on Kimbrel and not qualify Rodon were linked and both wrong. They should have done the reverse. If they think they can trade Kimbrel now and get any value out of him, they’re crazy. Rodon’s shoulder Problems are concerning but you have to protect yourself by at least providing the qualifying offer.

I will take a bet that they spend more money in this off season than it would have took to bring Rodon back. This has nothing to do with Reinsdorf. It has everything to do with Hahn thinking he can spend money better. If Hahn does his job, this will be a very good team next year.

 

[IGNORE2]

Reinsdorf strikes again. The decisions to pick up the option on Kimbrel and not qualify Rodon were linked and both wrong. They should have done the reverse. If they think they can trade Kimbrel now and get any value out of him, they’re crazy. Rodon’s shoulder Problems are concerning but you have to protect yourself by at least providing the qualifying offer.

Thank god for this post. Means Kimbrel will turn it around and Rodon is damaged.

 

[corbi296]

I will take a bet that they spend more money in this off season than it would have took to bring Rodon back. This has nothing to do with Reinsdorf. It has everything to do with Hahn thinking he can spend money better. If Hahn does his job, this will be a very good team next year.

So you think that if they spend more money in the aggregate over multiple players that will be proof that Reinsdorf's fiscal thriftiness is not holding the Sox back? I don't understand the logic of that at all. Their main problem is starting pitching and that is the commodity that is scarcest and most expensive in the open market. The reason the Sox lack it and will continue to lack it is because Reinsdorf isn't willing to pay for it to the degree necessary to win a World Series. Regarding the Kimbrel move, that's a classic move from a GM unwilling to admit he made a mistake trading for Kimbrel in the first place. He should have cut his losses instead he doubled down and that probably cost him the chance at extending a QO for Rodon. If I am a Sox fan, the Kimbrel trade cost me Madrigal, Huer and Rodon or at least the Comp pick that would have resulted from qualifying Rodon. Not good

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

So you think that if they spend more money in the aggregate over multiple players that will be proof that Reinsdorf's fiscal thriftiness is not holding the Sox back? I don't understand the logic of that at all. Their main problem is starting pitching and that is the commodity that is scarcest and most expensive in the open market. The reason the Sox lack it and will continue to lack it is because Reinsdorf isn't willing to pay for it to the degree necessary to win a World Series. Regarding the Kimbrel move, that's a classic move from a GM unwilling to admit he made a mistake trading for Kimbrel in the first place. He should have cut his losses instead he doubled down and that probably cost him the chance at extending a QO for Rodon. If I am a Sox fan, the Kimbrel trade cost me Madrigal, Huer and Rodon or at least the Comp pick that would have resulted from qualifying Rodon. Not good

Wow, tying Kimbrel to Rodon is a real stretch. The reason they didn’t QO Rodon was the concern for his ability to stay healthy. What’s the point of the QO? He can still go to the highest bidder and all you get is a comp pick in the 70’s. Rodon’s agent is Boras. Seems to me they did a solid to Rodon/Boras and the payback with Boras could exceed the comp pick.

Now to Kimbrel, I said from the beginning I didn’t like the deal and hate it now. I was the guy backing Madrigal in our back and forth about Hoerner. However, signing Kimbrel and trading him will bring back a prospect. You argument seems contradictory on the value of a prospect/comp pick. On one hand, you criticize Hahn for the non QO on Rodon when he wouldn’t get much of anything back. On the other hand, you say he shouldn’t pick up Kimbrel’s offer when the return is going to be similar.

The Reinsdorf cheapness is overblown nonsense. I would say he is smart and doesn’t sign FA’s to be a middle of the pack team. Please remember that the WS signed Robert, and Abreu because they were the highest bidder. The contracts of Sale, Quintana, and even Eaton basically were what allowed them to get Giolito, Kopech, Moncada, and Lynn. Very Good.

 

[corbi296]

Wow, tying Kimbrel to Rodon is a real stretch. The reason they didn’t QO Rodon was the concern for his ability to stay healthy. What’s the point of the QO? He can still go to the highest bidder and all you get is a comp pick in the 70’s. Rodon’s agent is Boras. Seems to me they did a solid to Rodon/Boras and the payback with Boras could exceed the comp pick.

Now to Kimbrel, I said from the beginning I didn’t like the deal and hate it now. I was the guy backing Madrigal in our back and forth about Hoerner. However, signing Kimbrel and trading him will bring back a prospect. You argument seems contradictory on the value of a prospect/comp pick. On one hand, you criticize Hahn for the non QO on Rodon when he wouldn’t get much of anything back. On the other hand, you say he shouldn’t pick up Kimbrel’s offer when the return is going to be similar.

The Reinsdorf cheapness is overblown nonsense. I would say he is smart and doesn’t sign FA’s to be a middle of the pack team. Please remember that the WS signed Robert, and Abreu because they were the highest bidder. The contracts of Sale, Quintana, and even Eaton basically were what allowed them to get Giolito, Kopech, Moncada, and Lynn. Very Good.

The point of the QO is to create value and optionality for the Sox. By declining, they have neither and the only rational reason for doing so is to protect themselves financially in the unlikely event he actually accepted the QO of approximately $18.4 million. The Sox gave themselves no chance to retain Rodon and passed on the chance to get a high compensatory draft pick for losing him all to completely eliminate the very low probability of Rodon accepting the QO. This is the definition of a financially driven decision and when you look at it relative to the decision of picking up Kimbrel’s similarly sized $16.9mm option, I think it’s very fair to say that it was probably one or the other for the Sox. I think they made the wrong decision because they put finances and saving face over what was best for the 2022 White Sox.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

The point of the QO is to create value and optionality for the Sox. By declining, they have neither and the only rational reason for doing so is to protect themselves financially in the unlikely event he actually accepted the QO of approximately $18.4 million. The Sox gave themselves no chance to retain Rodon and passed on the chance to get a high compensatory draft pick for losing him all to completely eliminate the very low probability of Rodon accepting the QO. This is the definition of a financially driven decision and when you look at it relative to the decision of picking up Kimbrel’s similarly sized $16.9mm option, I think it’s very fair to say that it was probably one or the other for the Sox. I think they made the wrong decision because they put finances and saving face over what was best for the 2022 White Sox.

Disagree, we’ll see how it works out

 

[chicagocatfan24]

I’m driving back from Pittsburgh so excuse typos but yes the other factor could definitely be his post season medicals. No idea on that. Could be that they think he’s fried and they didn’t wanna pay the QO rate for a pitcher that’s cooked and won’t help them when they could allocate that money elsewhere

Also they picked up Kimbrel’s option with a general understanding of what his market will be. The two don’t go hand in hand

Have also heard they are going to make a run at Scherzer but I know for a fact he wants a coast so that’ll be a tough sell.

Conforto will be their number one target though. Book it

 

[IGNORE2]

The point of the QO is to create value and optionality for the Sox. By declining, they have neither and the only rational reason for doing so is to protect themselves financially in the unlikely event he actually accepted the QO of approximately $18.4 million. The Sox gave themselves no chance to retain Rodon and passed on the chance to get a high compensatory draft pick for losing him all to completely eliminate the very low probability of Rodon accepting the QO. This is the definition of a financially driven decision and when you look at it relative to the decision of picking up Kimbrel’s similarly sized $16.9mm option, I think it’s very fair to say that it was probably one or the other for the Sox. I think they made the wrong decision because they put finances and saving face over what was best for the 2022 White Sox.

Doesn’t corbi also believe Sox do a terrible job drafting? So they skipped a chance to get another bad draft pick?

It’s hardly amazing that he finds the worse possibility of every scenario and sets them as truth. Probably dreads watching years of Sox post season play to come.

 

[IGNORE2]

I’m driving back from Pittsburgh so excuse typos but yes the other factor could definitely be his post season medicals. No idea on that. Could be that they think he’s fried and they didn’t wanna pay the QO rate for a pitcher that’s cooked and won’t help them when they could allocate that money elsewhere

Also they picked up Kimbrel’s option with a general understanding of what his market will be. The two don’t go hand in hand

Have also heard they are going to make a run at Scherzer but I know for a fact he wants a coast so that’ll be a tough sell.

Conforto will be their number one target though. Book it

What happens w Vaughan and Sheets? Vaughan. Is pretty athletic - too much to be a DH and Eloy doesn’t want that job. Sheets looks like he will crush it and could serve as DH until Abreu is ready to switch.

And Leary is not the answer for 2B - so what is? Cesar is gone now.

Like the scherzer idea but don’t see it playing out. Still looks like lots of pitching on the market this offseason.

 

[CatManTrue]

Hey @Purple Pile Driver , do you know if JON or Bajakian are baseball fans? If so who are their teams?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I just ran into him but was too busy asking him why he messed with Saint Hank’s proven recipe of success. If I see him at the Hoops game tonight and I’ll find out.

 

[chicagocatfan24]

What happens w Vaughan and Sheets? Vaughan. Is pretty athletic - too much to be a DH and Eloy doesn’t want that job. Sheets looks like he will crush it and could serve as DH until Abreu is ready to switch.

And Leary is not the answer for 2B - so what is? Cesar is gone now.

Like the scherzer idea but don’t see it playing out. Still looks like lots of pitching on the market this offseason.

Cesar and Leury could come back cheaper and either would be fine as a utility guy that gets 250 plate appearances and can play all over but NOT as starters. No thank you

No idea what they do with Vaugh and Sheets. And Burger. And Abreu. And Collins. And Eloy. And any of the seemingly infinite amount of 1B/DH types they have. I do highly doubt Vaughn is dealt though.

And I know it's public now but don't discount Los coming back either. I'd be shocked but there's a non-zero chance

 

[IGNORE2]

I have decided that my Sox wish list is catcher that can throw out runners, block pitches and either hit for avg or power (make yaz the backup / DH), a couple flyer SPs and a bunch of bullpen.

I wonder if the dodgers are motivated enough to move Bauer to take Kimbrel. Both are expensive guys that have worn out their welcome. Bauer is not gonna be charged. He may be odd but not criminally. I don’t think mlb can sit him with the labor issues and liability at stake. That would be a good roll of the dice as I see it.

I’m content w engel / Vaughan in RF with Sheets to be in the DH/1B/RF mix. Sit on 2b until trading period and let in-house man it for now.

 

[Hungry Jack]

The Sox gave themselves no chance to retain Rodon and passed on the chance to get a high compensatory draft pick for losing him all to completely eliminate the very low probability of Rodon accepting the QO.

The Sox could still sign Rodon as an FA, right? I think they were wise not to offer given the uncertainty of his health.

 

[chicagocatfan24]

The Sox could still sign Rodon as an FA, right? I think they were wise not to offer given the uncertainty of his health.

They can and there's a decent shot he'll be back. idk what Corbi is talking about. The exact same thing happened with the White Sox and rodon last year

 

[NUCat320]

How afraid are Sox fans of the Eduardo Rodriguez acquisition? Eat ‘em up Tigers.

Correa’s next.

Mize, Skubal, Eduardo is a staff of aces.
Torkelson and Greene go 1-2 in rookie of the year.

It was a good run, Sox.

Eat ‘em up, Tigers.

 

[corbi296]

The Sox could still sign Rodon as an FA, right? I think they were wise not to offer given the uncertainty of his health.

In theory yes but in practice no. If they wouldn’t risk keeping him on a 1 year $18.4 mm deal I think there is little chance they will be competitive trying to retain him now that he is on the open market. Supply is limited, demand is high and Jerry is cheap. The onay reason this makes sense is if they feel he won’t be able to pitch next season due to health reasons.

 

[chicagocatfan24]

How afraid are Sox fans of the Eduardo Rodriguez acquisition? Eat ‘em up Tigers.

Correa’s next.

Mize, Skubal, Eduardo is a staff of aces.
Torkelson and Greene go 1-2 in rookie of the year.

It was a good run, Sox.

Eat ‘em up, Tigers.

None of those guys are aces. Tigers I think are gonna be good next year, 80-85 wins, then in 2023 it'll be a dog fight at the top of the central IMO. Royals will start to be good again too

 

[corbi296]

They can and there's a decent shot he'll be back. idk what Corbi is talking about. The exact same thing happened with the White Sox and rodon last year

let’s see, maybe it has something to do with the fact that last offseason Rodon was coming off a season where he was 0-2 with an 8.22 ERA and 7 innings pitched Vs. this offseason he is coming off a 13-5 record, a 2.32 ERA and 132 innings pitched. I think that may increase demand for his services in the open market jjust a bit but you know you are the self proclaimed baseball expert.

 

[Hungry Jack]

In theory yes but in practice no. If they wouldn’t risk keeping him on a 1 year $18.4 mm deal I think there is little chance they will be competitive trying to retain him now that he is on the open market. Supply is limited, demand is high and Jerry is cheap. The onay reason this makes sense is if they feel he won’t be able to pitch next season due to health reasons.

You really think Rodon would get a multi-year deal for starter money given what transpired? I think best case for Rodon is another one-year "prove it" deal with some escalators for innings. That could easily include the Sox, though my guess is they will move on.

 

[corbi296]

You really think Rodon would get a multi-year deal for starter money given what transpired? I think best case for Rodon is another one-year "prove it" deal with some escalators for innings. That could easily include the Sox, though my guess is they will move on.

I don’t know enough about his medicals but I can tell you Boras is shooting for a multi year, big money deal and the fact there is no compensatory pick attached to him will only help their cause. There is a lot money chasing limited starting pitching.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I don’t know enough about his medicals but I can tell you Boras is shooting for a multi year, big money deal and the fact there is no compensatory pick attached to him will only help their cause. There is a lot money chasing limited starting pitching.

Ok, doesn’t mean Jerry should just pay up and saddle the team with. JHey type of albatross contract. He might get the years, good for him. Not worth the risk.

 

[corbi296]

Ok, doesn’t mean Jerry should just pay up and saddle the team with. JHey type of albatross contract. He might get the years, good for him. Not worth the risk.

I didn’t say they should. I said i thought it was penny wise and pound foolish to not offer him the QO. It just reinforces what I have been saying all along. This White Sox team does not have the in house starting pitching to win a World Series and Reinsdorf isn’t willing to risk the financial commitment necessary to go get that caliber of starting pitching in the open market.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I didn’t say they should. I said i thought it was penny wise and pound foolish to not offer him the QO. It just reinforces what I have been saying all along. This White Sox team does not have the in house starting pitching to win a World Series and Reinsdorf isn’t willing to risk the financial commitment necessary to go get that caliber of starting pitching in the open market.

Give me 9 guys that can throw 3 strong innings every 3 days and we would win the WS. SP studs are becoming less and less of a factor in the playoffs.

 

[corbi296]

Give me 9 guys that can throw 3 strong innings every 3 days and we would win the WS. SP studs are becoming less and less of a factor in the playoffs.

Good luck with that. Hard enough to find 2-3 top starters, let alone nine guys who can pitch 3 good innings every three days. It just does not reflect reality. The team that wins the WS is the one with the best starting pitching. The Sox won’t win until they invest in a better starting staff.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Good luck with that. Hard enough to find 2-3 top starters, let alone nine guys who can pitch 3 good innings every three days. It just does not reflect reality. The team that wins the WS is the one with the best starting pitching. The Sox won’t win until they invest in a better starting staff.

you mean like the Braves who had to throw a bullpen game in what would be the clincher? The two teams in the WS didn’t have 4 good SP’s between them.

 

[chicagocatfan24]

The point of the QO is to create value and optionality for the Sox. By declining, they have neither and the only rational reason for doing so is to protect themselves financially in the unlikely event he actually accepted the QO of approximately $18.4 million. The Sox gave themselves no chance to retain Rodon and passed on the chance to get a high compensatory draft pick for losing him all to completely eliminate the very low probability of Rodon accepting the QO. This is the definition of a financially driven decision and when you look at it relative to the decision of picking up Kimbrel’s similarly sized $16.9mm option, I think it’s very fair to say that it was probably one or the other for the Sox. I think they made the wrong decision because they put finances and saving face over what was best for the 2022 White Sox.

It's not even really about the pick. It's about the pool money. They'd have extra bonus pool money for the draft if he turned down a QO. The whole rodon situation will really piss me off if they don't bring him back

 

[IGNORE2]

I don’t know enough about his medicals but I can tell you Boras is shooting for a multi year, big money deal and the fact there is no compensatory pick attached to him will only help their cause. There is a lot money chasing limited starting pitching.

Hope the cubs give it to him

 

[IGNORE2]

It's not even really about the pick. It's about the pool money. They'd have extra bonus pool money for the draft if he turned down a QO. The whole rodon situation will really piss me off if they don't bring him back

Let’s see his contract. And how he performs in 2022. I bet they were afraid he would sign it and had knowledge that he wasn’t worth it.

 

[corbi296]

It's not even really about the pick. It's about the pool money. They'd have extra bonus pool money for the draft if he turned down a QO. The whole rodon situation will really piss me off if they don't bring him back

it’s both.

 

[corbi296]

you mean like the Braves who had to throw a bullpen game in what would be the clincher? The two teams in the WS didn’t have 4 good SP’s between them.

I think we were watching a different baseball playoff.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I think we were watching a different baseball playoff.

Absolutely

 

[NU Houston]

you mean like the Braves who had to throw a bullpen game in what would be the clincher? The two teams in the WS didn’t have 4 good SP’s between them.

To be fair, both teams lost a very good starting pitcher to injury (Morton and McCullers). A healthy Morton would have given Atlanta three very effective SPs, which is more than the Astros had (which is a reason the Astros lost the WS).

Verlander's back with the Astros next season. He and McCullers should be an effective 1-2 punch, and hopefully the younger guys can settle down and be more consistent. Interestingly, the Astros pitching coach "retired" after the WS, only to resurface in Arizona as their pitching coach a few weeks later. I wish Coach Hank would un-retire and return to Evanston to coach the NU D.

 

[chicagocatfan24]

it’s both.

The hit rate on comp picks is low. Still, semantics

 

[NUCat320]

Scherzer: Mets! $43M!!

Baez: Tigers! He’s no Pudge Rodriguez or Miggy Cabrera!

Seager: Overpay! Stay healthy, kid!


MLB owners are so dissatisfied with the economics of the game that they’re shelling out record contracts for old guys and unhealthy guys and inconsistent guys!

What a fall, Robbie Ray! Way to 31-year-old Marcus Siemian.

As always, the only deal that will work out is Scherzer’s. Syndergaard is probably healthy now that the Mets are done breaking him.

BRING ON THE UNIVERSAL DH IN ‘22!

 

[corbi296]

Scherzer: Mets! $43M!!

Baez: Tigers! He’s no Pudge Rodriguez or Miggy Cabrera!

Seager: Overpay! Stay healthy, kid!

It’s all an overpay. $43mm a year over three years for a pitcher who is about to turn 38 years old. Insane!