Recruiting Braun vs. 51

[Baz=Heisman]

I keep hearing grumblings from Wildcats Twitter/X that Fitz was a way better recruiter than Braun. That is simply spin.

I checked and Fitz had classes in the 50-55 range for the most part per Rivals (one of the last 6 years was 42, I believe). Braun’s 2025 class, his first full one, is currently 59. Is that really that much of a difference?

With our stringent academic restrictions I’m guessing, realistically, the high 30s/low 40s composite score is about as good as we can do. Not saying Braun will for sure get there but we’re not far off already…

Curious everyone’s thoughts.

 

[its_the_sauce]

Fitz is gone, let it go.

 

[Skunkpilot]

Who’s fitz?

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

From what I understand, Fitz is an individual to whom Northwestern owes tens of millions of dollars.

 

[FanatiCat]

For 90% of his tenure Fitz didn’t have to recruit against open money offers in the table. The “4 years for 40,” honoring scholarships through graduation etc. is not a big deal anymore.

 

[loyolacat]

Big recruiting year coming up.....AI picture of the new stadium with recruit scoring a TD or a sack...with Taylor Swift and notable NU grads in the stands.....Do we put Fitz in the crowd?

 

[Hungry Jack]

Fitz had a pretty good-looking class on board when he got canned. Obviously, ratings mean little, but it was a good group on tape.

Braun gets a pass for last year, and to an extent, this year. But he's got to get better players. Let's give him a bit of credit for O'Brien at this point. We just need much more.

 

[techtim72]

A coach is only as good a recruiter as his assistants help him to be.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

I keep hearing grumblings from Wildcats Twitter/X that Fitz was a way better recruiter than Braun. That is simply spin.

I checked and Fitz had classes in the 50-55 range for the most part per Rivals (one of the last 6 years was 42, I believe). Braun’s 2025 class, his first full one, is currently 59. Is that really that much of a difference?

With our stringent academic restrictions I’m guessing, realistically, the high 30s/low 40s composite score is about as good as we can do. Not saying Braun will for sure get there but we’re not far off already…

Curious everyone’s thoughts.

The difference in recruiting has been significant. Far better under Fitz. Braun has a long way to go.

 

[hdhntr1]

I keep hearing grumblings from Wildcats Twitter/X that Fitz was a way better recruiter than Braun. That is simply spin.

I checked and Fitz had classes in the 50-55 range for the most part per Rivals (one of the last 6 years was 42, I believe). Braun’s 2025 class, his first full one, is currently 59. Is that really that much of a difference?

With our stringent academic restrictions I’m guessing, realistically, the high 30s/low 40s composite score is about as good as we can do. Not saying Braun will for sure get there but we’re not far off already…

Curious everyone’s thoughts.

You are kidding yourself. There is a sizable difference. Rivals rates by number in the class among other things. This class is at 18 and bigger than Fitz's last classes (they were 16) leading to a higher rating. But those were also final grades and this years is not, Reality is that our class is probably complete where a number of classes of teams below us are not and when they add guys they will jump us. (really think IA is done at 14 or IL who just beat Mich and is ranked, will stop at 15?) The even bigger issue is much less high end, difference making talent.

Reality is that this class is more a MAC level class where Fits classes were about mid level P4. And as other programs fill out their classes I would expect this years class rating to drop.

 

[Baz=Heisman]

You are kidding yourself. There is a sizable difference. Rivals rates by number in the class among other things. This class is at 18 and bigger than Fitz's last classes (they were 16) leading to a higher rating. But those were also final grades and this years is not, Reality is that our class is probably complete where a number of classes of teams below us are not and when they add guys they will jump us. (really think IA is done at 14 or IL who just beat Mich and is ranked, will stop at 15? The even bigger issue is much less high end, difference making talent.

Reality is that this class is more a MAC level class where Fits classes were more P4. And as other programs fill out their classes I would expect this years class rating to drop.

I mean we’ll see but Fitz had plenty of MAC guys. Damn near every QB post-2014 that he got was a MAC guy.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Braun is facing a couple impediments that Fitzgerald didn't really have to deal with for the bulk of his tenure.
Michael Schill and NIL.

Not sure which hurts NU football more.

Fitzgerald's genuine affection for Northwestern had to be helpful when selling NU to players and parents. (Yes the parents matter)
Braun is really just a positive guy trying to make a career for himself who can't really distance himself from Schill.

Fitzgerald, because of his status, was able to credibly promise development and assistance (possibly even "protection") to the guys he brought into the NU football family. Braun can't make those same promises because everybody knows Schill threw the whole team under the bus in 2023. And if they don't know, other schools will make sure they do know.

Additionally, what Fitzgerald was selling has also been undercut by NIL, so Braun faces a significant disadvantage there.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

I keep hearing grumblings from Wildcats Twitter/X that Fitz was a way better recruiter than Braun. That is simply spin.

I checked and Fitz had classes in the 50-55 range for the most part per Rivals (one of the last 6 years was 42, I believe). Braun’s 2025 class, his first full one, is currently 59. Is that really that much of a difference?

With our stringent academic restrictions I’m guessing, realistically, the high 30s/low 40s composite score is about as good as we can do. Not saying Braun will for sure get there but we’re not far off already…

Curious everyone’s thoughts.

If you compare classes player to player, offer to offer, battle to battle, it's not even remotely close. Fitz was routinely competing with and beating all but the top of the Big Ten in battles for guys, and he was doing it without the performance center or upcoming new stadium.

This isn't some dig at Braun, our program has needed some rebuilding and it'll take time, but Fitz was an absolute A+ recruiter at Northwestern.

 

[curdog]

If you compare classes player to player, offer to offer, battle to battle, it's not even remotely close. Fitz was routinely competing with and beating all but the top of the Big Ten in battles for guys, and he was doing it without the performance center or upcoming new stadium.

This isn't some dig at Braun, our program has needed some rebuilding and it'll take time, but Fitz was an absolute A+ recruiter at Northwestern.

Recruiting was by far the biggest strength of Fitz and at NU, recruiting needs to be the strength of the staff. Most kids don’t grow up an NU fan or dream of playing at NU, coaches need to sell it. I hope Braun and company are able to do it.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

Recruiting was by far the biggest strength of Fitz and at NU, recruiting needs to be the strength of the staff. Most kids don’t grow up an NU fan or dream of playing at NU, coaches need to sell it. I hope Braun and company are able to do it.

If you compare early Fitz to early Braun, it's less drastic, though Braun has some advantages Fitz didn't... but also some new disadvantages in NIL Fitz didn't have either.

I generally believe it Braun's ability to get guys excited to play for him, but we'll just have to see over the next couple of years. Last year's class wasn't really Braun's class and this year is just year one. Next year will be big coming off the nice year last year.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

If you compare early Fitz to early Braun, it's less drastic, though Braun has some advantages Fitz didn't... but also some new disadvantages in NIL Fitz didn't have either.

I generally believe it Braun's ability to get guys excited to play for him, but we'll just have to see over the next couple of years. Last year's class wasn't really Braun's class and this year is just year one. Next year will be big coming off the nice year last year.

Last year's team was arguably motivated by the "Cats Against The World" more than anything. Braun deserves credit for harnessing that energy and resurrecting the defense.

Now the offense looks confused and the coaches often seem confused when we have the ball. The defense seems capable enough and reasonably coached.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Braun is facing a couple impediments that Fitzgerald didn't really have to deal with for the bulk of his tenure.
Michael Schill and NIL.

Not sure which hurts NU football more.

Fitzgerald's genuine affection for Northwestern had to be helpful when selling NU to players and parents. (Yes the parents matter)
Braun is really just a positive guy trying to make a career for himself who can't really distance himself from Schill.

Fitzgerald, because of his status, was able to credibly promise development and assistance (possibly even "protection") to the guys he brought into the NU football family. Braun can't make those same promises because everybody knows Schill threw the whole team under the bus in 2023. And if they don't know, other schools will make sure they do know.

Additionally, what Fitzgerald was selling has also been undercut by NIL, so Braun faces a significant disadvantage there.

The University President seldom comes up in recruiting.

 

[hdhntr1]

Recruiting was by far the biggest strength of Fitz and at NU, recruiting needs to be the strength of the staff. Most kids don’t grow up an NU fan or dream of playing at NU, coaches need to sell it. I hope Braun and company are able to do it.

Consistency was. We were a developmental program just like is claimed today but then they were working with higher level guys to start with than Braun will have to work with

 

[hdhntr1]

The University President seldom comes up in recruiting.

No, but they can lead to changes in how you have to do things and that can affect recruiting

 

[phatcat]

I mean we’ll see but Fitz had plenty of MAC guys. Damn near every QB post-2014 that he got was a MAC guy.

Mustn't criticize St Patrick. Go do a novena

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Mustn't criticize St Patrick. Go do a novena

Hilarious. In the last week we have had posters on here claim McCall, Jake, Cushing, were Coaching giants. Why is it so surprising that “St. Patrick” gets backing when these under performers do? EVERY game we lose the old coaches seem brighter.

Every game we lose our transfers become HOF players. Sully, TeRah, Fort Knox, Priebe to name a few that would change the fortunes of this squad.

If you can’t at least admit that recent Fitz classes OVERALL were better than we have seen so far from Braun then the discussion starts with a clear bias. Again, I don’t blame Braun on this fact yet, as he started in a very difficult place, but let’s not kid ourselves because we dislike St. Patrick.

 

[Baz=Heisman]

If you compare classes player to player, offer to offer, battle to battle, it's not even remotely close. Fitz was routinely competing with and beating all but the top of the Big Ten in battles for guys, and he was doing it without the performance center or upcoming new stadium.

This isn't some dig at Braun, our program has needed some rebuilding and it'll take time, but Fitz was an absolute A+ recruiter at Northwestern.

How was Fitz an “A+” recruiter at NU? His classes were 45-55. Obviously, recruiting has a lot more focus and resources dedicated to it now but didn’t Gary pull 5 stars back in the day?

 

[curdog]

How was Fitz an “A+” recruiter at NU? His classes were 45-55. Obviously, recruiting has a lot more focus and resources dedicated to it now but didn’t Gary pull 5 stars back in the day?

I’m not a recruiting expert but the tell for me was what other offers the kids who ended up coming to NU had. For the most part it was other BIG programs.

 

[hdhntr1]

If you compare early Fitz to early Braun, it's less drastic, though Braun has some advantages Fitz didn't... but also some new disadvantages in NIL Fitz didn't have either.

I generally believe it Braun's ability to get guys excited to play for him, but we'll just have to see over the next couple of years. Last year's class wasn't really Braun's class and this year is just year one. Next year will be big coming off the nice year last year.

Last year, the team was designed to win. Braun was successful and keeping them on the rails and giving them something to focus on which allowed them to be successful. Definitely not nothing but not everything either. He did not have to put together and build the program

11 of the 17 recruits committed after Fitz was fired and Braun was elevated to the position. IT was mostly his class and that part of the class was mostly FCS level. That said he was forced to get on guys a lot later in the process than normal. This year they have been on it since the beginning. Recruiting is better but still only mostly MAC level. Coupled with the mass exodus of talent, they have a long way to go before they can have a competitive roster. So for now, they will have their work cut out for them just stabilizing the roster and that is still a long way from having a competitive roster. Hopefully they can but jury still out

 

[hdhntr1]

How was Fitz an “A+” recruiter at NU? His classes were 45-55. Obviously, recruiting has a lot more focus and resources dedicated to it now but didn’t Gary pull 5 stars back in the day?

Because the other programs did not have anywhere close to the restrictions Fitz was recruiting under. He could only even look at 10 to 15% of recruits and at certain positions, even less. Then there were quirks in the rating system such as we generally had classes around 16 players whereas the rating system bases the class ranking on the top 20-22 or whatever the number (we kept them for 5 years and they exhibited less turnover so we never brought in as many as other programs. He set up a solid recruiting program and executed it pretty well and brought in the guys that were fits. Result, we always performed better than the class rating.

The system was a lot different back when Barnett was here. Not sure of what anyones actual ratings were but while still competitive they are probably not close to what is going on today. As far as the top guys that he brought in, I believe it was after the Rose bowl year. But a number of them left when he did

 

[corbi296]

How was Fitz an “A+” recruiter at NU? His classes were 45-55. Obviously, recruiting has a lot more focus and resources dedicated to it now but didn’t Gary pull 5 stars back in the day?

No one said A+ but he was very good at talent identification and finding guys that fit NU. 45-55 rankings are much better than what you will see for this current class. Again, agree with Purple Pile Driver that it is not fair to judge Braun on this front this early given the circumstances but there are clear signs that we are landing guys that are a notch or two below what we were getting with Fitz. NU's margin for success was very narrow, losing 1-2 premium guys per class may be the difference between 8-10 win teams vs 4-7 win teams.

 

[Ilvolino]

No one said A+ but he was very good at talent identification and finding guys that fit NU. 45-55 rankings are much better than what you will see for this current class. Again, agree with Purple Pile Driver that it is not fair to judge Braun on this front this early given the circumstances but there are clear signs that we are landing guys that are a notch or two below what we were getting with Fitz. NU's margin for success was very narrow, losing 1-2 premium guys per class may be the difference between 8-10 win teams vs 4-7 win teams.

If Fitz had so much recruiting success the results his last 2 years is even more egregious. I hate to bring it up again but that record was atrocious

 

[AdamOnFirst]

No one said A+ but he was very good at talent identification and finding guys that fit NU. 45-55 rankings are much better than what you will see for this current class. Again, agree with Purple Pile Driver that it is not fair to judge Braun on this front this early given the circumstances but there are clear signs that we are landing guys that are a notch or two below what we were getting with Fitz. NU's margin for success was very narrow, losing 1-2 premium guys per class may be the difference between 8-10 win teams vs 4-7 win teams.

I literally called Fitz an A+ recruiter, and I stand by it. People can haggle over the specific letter. Grade curve all they want and it doesn’t change that Fitz had recruiting in a much stronger place then.

 

[corbi296]

If Fitz had so much recruiting success the results his last 2 years is even more egregious. I hate to bring it up again but that record was atrocious

Come on, stop it with this nonsense. Fitz’s issue at the end was all about a bad run of recruiting at one key position, the QB, and that thoroughly discussed while he was still here. Recruiting everywhere else was rock solid. His choice of coordinators also contributed and may have been a correlated issue with bad QB recruiting.

 

[corbi296]

I literally called Fitz an A+ recruiter, and I stand by it. People can haggle over the specific letter. Grade curve all they want and it doesn’t change that Fitz had recruiting in a much stronger place then.

Agreed. Very good or A+ is subjective and splitting hairs. The bottom line is we are not Recruiting at the same level we were under FItz. I hope this is a blip but if it continues our win/loss record will suffer.

 

[Ilvolino]

Come on, stop it with this nonsense. Fitz’s issue at the end was all about a bad run of recruiting at one key position, the QB, and that thoroughly discussed while he was still here. Recruiting everywhere else was rock solid. His choice of coordinators also contributed and may have been a correlated issue with bad QB recruiting.

Lou I am humbled by you taking the time to respond to my comment. But your assertion that Fitz had a bad run of recruiting at QB is like asking Mrs. Lincoln: Other than the incident at the end how was the play? QB recruiting is everything and failure there negates success in all other recruiting.

 

[peatymeanis]

I literally called Fitz an A+ recruiter, and I stand by it. People can haggle over the specific letter. Grade curve all they want and it doesn’t change that Fitz had recruiting in a much stronger place then.

He gets an A+ despite going 10 years without recruiting a single worthwhile qb out of high school?

 

[hdhntr1]

No one said A+ but he was very good at talent identification and finding guys that fit NU. 45-55 rankings are much better than what you will see for this current class. Again, agree with Purple Pile Driver that it is not fair to judge Braun on this front this early given the circumstances but there are clear signs that we are landing guys that are a notch or two below what we were getting with Fitz. NU's margin for success was very narrow, losing 1-2 premium guys per class may be the difference between 8-10 win teams vs 4-7 win teams.

And with the mass exodus, we have to be plus in that category (getting even more premium guys per cycle) to even get anywhere close to where we were and even that will take years.. With our current restrictions we really don' have a way to fill that talent gap through the portal as most of our competitors can.

Even scarier is that if we lose more than that 1-2 premium guys per year, we could start looking at 3-4 wins as being a great year. Then there is even greater likelyhood of our best guys leaving through the portal and playing their best Football elsewhere making things even worse. Needs to get it fixed and fixed fast.

 

[Baz=Heisman]

If Fitz had so much recruiting success the results his last 2 years is even more egregious. I hate to bring it up again but that record was atrocious

Thank you.

Fitz wasn’t winning any real recruiting battles for skill positions.

Yes, he’d get a LB (the four star guy who transferred to OSU and then came back) or a DE (several four stars), 5 star LT (Skow) but we never had a 4 star RB to my knowledge, the only 5 star WR was Prater and that was via transfer, of course, and the 4 star QB was Thorson and no one else.

You have to win those skill position recruiting battles. Fitz’s football mentality was stuck in the mid-90s. Wanted to win close, low scoring games. 1) Very difficult to do consistently and 2) kids do NOT want to play in those offenses.

Lujan has been a clown, so far, but his offense on paper can be exciting which should help with recruiting.

 

[hdhntr1]

I’m not a recruiting expert but the tell for me was what other offers the kids who ended up coming to NU had. For the most part it was other BIG programs.

Other BIG and also other P4/5 programs

 

[hdhntr1]

No one said A+ but he was very good at talent identification and finding guys that fit NU. 45-55 rankings are much better than what you will see for this current class. Again, agree with Purple Pile Driver that it is not fair to judge Braun on this front this early given the circumstances but there are clear signs that we are landing guys that are a notch or two below what we were getting with Fitz. NU's margin for success was very narrow, losing 1-2 premium guys per class may be the difference between 8-10 win teams vs 4-7 win teams.

Actually I think Adam on First did

 

[hdhntr1]

If Fitz had so much recruiting success the results his last 2 years is even more egregious. I hate to bring it up again but that record was atrocious

He made a terrible DC hire. He corrected that mistake

 

[hdhntr1]

First star ratings are not everything. That said, you still probably ought to get your facts straight. Tyus was a 4 star. Justin Jackson was 4 star and a pretty fair RB. Larkin and Porter were rated 5.7 which is just below 4 star. Even Hull rated 2 star was a pretty fair RB. At QB Alviti was a 4 star. And they did bring in some transfers at QB that were highly rated in the cases of HJ (5 star) and Hillinsky (4 star) but also found guys that could effectively run the O in Ramsey and Bryant who tons of programs were going after. Flurema was a 4 star WR. And Ulein and Saka were 4 stars at LB. Skoronski was 4 star as was Teirman on OL.

 

[corbi296]

Thank you.

Fitz wasn’t winning any real recruiting battles for skill positions.

Yes, he’d get a LB (the four star guy who transferred to OSU and then came back) or a DE (several four stars), 5 star LT (Skow) but we never had a 4 star RB to my knowledge, the only 5 star WR was Prater and that was via transfer, of course, and the 4 star QB was Thorson and no one else.

You have to win those skill position recruiting battles. Fitz’s football mentality was stuck in the mid-90s. Wanted to win close, low scoring games. 1) Very difficult to do consistently and 2) kids do NOT want to play in those offenses.

Lujan has been a clown, so far, but his offense on paper can be exciting which should help with recruiting.

Star ratings are less relevant than who we were competing with for recruits. That’s a much better indication of the caliber of recruits. having said that, Justin Jackson was a four star recruit that was highly recruited. Larkin and Porter were highly recruited backs. On the receiver side guys like Ebert, Kirtz and McGowan come to kind as highly recruited players but I am sure I am missing several others.

Not sure who you are referring to about the Lb that went to OSU and came back but if you mean Glover that whole sequence happensd because of and after Fitz’s firing.

 

[corbi296]

Lou I am humbled by you taking the time to respond to my comment. But your assertion that Fitz had a bad run of recruiting at QB is like asking Mrs. Lincoln: Other than the incident at the end how was the play? QB recruiting is everything and failure there negates success in all other recruiting.

Why are you addressing this to Lou?