"Rivalry" with Illinois

[7th Cir. Cat]

Let's talk about what this game means to us as a program.

None of our starting five had offers from Illinois. This is a very different from the situation with the football program where we fight over recruits.

I was more pumped for the DePaul game because they beat us out for Charlie Moore. What would beating Illinois on a regular basis (like the way we've dominated the last decade in football) do for our recruiting? How much would it even matter? If I recall we offered Ayo but couldn't get him on campus for a visit (he was supposed to visit with Nance).

How important is beating Illinois and DePaul important to us in taking the next step as a program? Or are we really fighting with Stanford/Notre Dame/Harvard (seriously) for the best of the academic qualifiers?

 

[Hungry Jack]

They beat us out for Ayo.

 

[FeralFelidae]

We still have the HAT, and that's the most important thing.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Let's talk about what this game means to us as a program.

None of our starting five had offers from Illinois. This is a very different from the situation with the football program where we fight over recruits.

I was more pumped for the DePaul game because they beat us out for Charlie Moore. What would beating Illinois on a regular basis (like the way we've dominated the last decade in football) do for our recruiting? How much would it even matter? If I recall we offered Ayo but couldn't get him on campus for a visit (he was supposed to visit with Nance).

How important is beating Illinois and DePaul important to us in taking the next step as a program? Or are we really fighting with Stanford/Notre Dame/Harvard (seriously) for the best of the academic qualifiers?

NU doesn’t really fight Illinois for recruits. In football we have many players that Illinois offers. I am not sure they have any with a NU offer. If they do, it is a small number.

in basketball, The Fighting Undies have the upper hand in recruiting. Can’t remember the last NU player with an Illinois offer. They got Ayo who we weren’t really in on and were second in the Horton-Tucker sweepstakes while we were out of it.

This isn’t going to materialize into a rivalry until both teams are good. The Fighting Lovies are doormats in football and NU has been the same in B Ball with the exception of one year. Hopefully, after this year NU raises up in B Ball to make it a rivalry. I have hope that can happen, but don’t expect NU to win against the Fighting Undies this weekend. That big Freshman is the real deal.

 

[go cats go]

NU doesn’t really fight Illinois for recruits. In football we have many players that Illinois offers. I am not sure they have any with a NU offer. If they do, it is a small number.

in basketball, The Fighting Undies have the upper hand in recruiting. Can’t remember the last NU player with an Illinois offer. They got Ayo who we weren’t really in on and were second in the Horton-Tucker sweepstakes while we were out of it.

This isn’t going to materialize into a rivalry until both teams are good. The Fighting Lovies are doormats in football and NU has been the same in B Ball with the exception of one year. Hopefully, after this year NU raises up in B Ball to make it a rivalry. I have hope that can happen, but don’t expect NU to win against the Fighting Undies this weekend. That big Freshman is the real deal.

It has actually been a little bit of a rivalry recently. Between January 2010 and January 2019, NU had an 8-6 edge head-to-head against the Illini--and at least one head-to-head victory in 7 of the 10 seasons.

Illinois offered Barret Benson--and I assume that there were one or two others during this stretch.

By the way, Ayo is really, really good. I am envious of the Illini for having him!

 

[ParisCat]

NU has been better than Illinois, by final KenPom rating, each of the last four seasons. By that measure, THIS is actually the outlier season.

 

[GatoLouco]

don’t expect NU to win against the Fighting Undies this weekend. That big Freshman is the real deal.

On paper and imo, it's a team we don't match well against. They are physical and competent on defense. I am of the opinion we match up better with the likes of Indiana, who are not so strong on D.

Going to go see it live. Hopeful as always. Sure to be wondering, at times, if I am in Champaign or in the middle of "roll tide" country.

 

[Sec.112]

You're assuming Illinois is some type of recruiting powerhouse that needs to be beaten to get the best players. Recently, they get a better player or two or three (??), but they don't dominate the state of Illinois recruiting like they once did.

The real question for all Illinois programs is how to stop the express train out of the state. Winning is the obvious answer. But in the meantime, are there steps they can take?

Also, it seems like there are more than a few steps NU needs to reach the level of Illinois. I think the two programs on the court have been comparable in the last several years. But that psycho fanbase makes recovery from down cycles easier.

In the meantime, the Cats are playing in a morgue that is disturbed by - as an example - one screaming fan.

 

[Vassar69]

The talent level of high school basketball in the state is an all time low. Look at the number of kids recruited to P5 programs from high schools in the state, compared to where it was 15-20 years ago. The drop off has been dramatic. Michael O’Brien and Joe Hendrickson have pointed this out over the years, so I should credit them for doing the legwork on this. There reasons behind are complex, but the reality is that any in-state collegiate program has to look beyond the state’s borders for talent because there just simply isn’t that much in the state of Illinois these days.

 

[go cats go]

NU doesn’t really fight Illinois for recruits. In football we have many players that Illinois offers. I am not sure they have any with a NU offer. If they do, it is a small number.

Just remembered another one... Supposedly, Kipper Nichols was ready to sign with NU...but we couldn't work out making a scholarship available because the Vassar situation became a public problem. Nichols even waited...but then signed will Illinois over the summer immediately going into his freshman year.

 

[Vassar69]

Just remembered another one... Supposedly, Kipper Nichols was ready to sign with NU...but we couldn't work out making a scholarship available because the Vassar situation became a public problem. Nichols even waited...but then signed will Illinois over the summer immediately going into his freshman year.

FWIW, Nichols signed with Tulane in the spring, then transferred to Illinois in the fall.

(Not refuting anything you said. Just that maybe the dates are off a bit or something)

 

[go cats go]

FWIW, Nichols signed with Tulane in the spring, then transferred to Illinois in the fall.

(Not refuting anything you said. Just that maybe the dates are off a bit or something)

Yeah, I do recall the Tulane thing now. I'm sorry that I don't remember all the details... Nevertheless, both NU and Illinois were seriously in the picture for Nichols. That much is fair to say confidently.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

The talent level of high school basketball in the state is an all time low. Look at the number of kids recruited to P5 programs from high schools in the state, compared to where it was 15-20 years ago. The drop off has been dramatic. Michael O’Brien and Joe Hendrickson have pointed this out over the years, so I should credit them for doing the legwork on this. There reasons behind are complex, but the reality is that any in-state collegiate program has to look beyond the state’s borders for talent because there just simply isn’t that much in the state of Illinois these days.

Huh? Steward going to Duke. Christie is a stud. Ayo is killing it with the Undies. Miller is going to join Ayo and he’ll be good. Baldwin sure feels like any Illinois kid to me. We could make a good team with them and won’t even get to others that are pro level players. I could give you another half dozen there.

if Illinois is at an all time low, then the Undies will crash and burn because the only time they have been relative is with a good spattering of Illinois talent. NU rarely gets local talent.

 

[Vassar69]

Huh? Steward going to Duke. Christie is a stud. Ayo is killing it with the Undies. Miller is going to join Ayo and he’ll be good. Baldwin sure feels like any Illinois kid to me. We could make a good team with them and won’t even get to others that are pro level players. I could give you another half dozen there.

if Illinois is at an all time low, then the Undies will crash and burn because the only time they have been relative is with a good spattering of Illinois talent. NU rarely gets local talent.

Of course the state has some talent. I’m saying the depth isn’t there and hasn’t been for many years. Of course there are a few top end guys, but I recall seeing that in each of the last five years there were something like <20 power 5 recruits in state. Compared to 20 years ago, when there were double or triple that number. (I read it in a Michael O’Brien article but I can’t find it now, unfortunately)

And I understand what you’re trying to do there, but I’ll respectfully disagree. The misfortunes of the Illini over the last 15 years have far less to do with the local talent pool and far more to do with the quality of the coach on the sidelines. Underwood has gotten a lot of talent during a down period in the state high schools by grabbing any great local kids he can woo and then going national, but unfortunately I don’t think he’s a good coach so the point is moot.

 

[Fitz51]

NU has no basketball rival. The game doesn’t mean too much more than any other conference games.

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

I’ve never understood some fans’ insistence that “rivalries” be held to some intense standard, with some even acting like it’s a badge of pride and status symbol to *reject* another team or program as your rival.

Of course the state has some talent. I’m saying the depth isn’t there and hasn’t been for many years. Of course there are a few top end guys, but I recall seeing that in each of the last five years there were something like <20 power 5 recruits in state. Compared to 20 years ago, when there were double or triple that number. (I read it in a Michael O’Brien article but I can’t find it now, unfortunately)

And I understand what you’re trying to do there, but I’ll respectfully disagree. The misfortunes of the Illini over the last 15 years have far less to do with the local talent pool and far more to do with the quality of the coach on the sidelines. Underwood has gotten a lot of talent during a down period in the state high schools by grabbing any great local kids he can woo and then going national, but unfortunately I don’t think he’s a good coach so the point is moot.

I’ll take the #24 ranking, personally.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I’ve never understood some fans’ insistence that “rivalries” be held to some intense standard, with some even acting like it’s a badge of pride and status symbol to *reject* another team or program as your rival.


I’ll take the #24 ranking, personally.

It’s because many of us have lived our whole life in this state where people like you feel you are entitled to dismiss and beat little ole Northwestern. Like growing up here means we somehow should support the flagship for no other reason than residency.

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

It’s because many of us have lived our whole life in this state where people like you feel you are entitled to dismiss and beat little ole Northwestern. Like growing up here means we somehow should support the flagship for no other reason than residency.

If I gave you that impression, I did not mean to. In fact, the point of the first part of my post was actually to include Illini fans who smugly dismiss NU as a legitimate rival, as well. I don't think calling a team your "rival" is a compliment to them, and some fans (of all teams) seem to think it makes them cool or something to, like, reject other teams as a rival because they don't view them as good enough. Lol, I think that's dumb.

 

[Vassar69]

It’s because many of us have lived our whole life in this state where people like you feel you are entitled to dismiss and beat little ole Northwestern. Like growing up here means we somehow should support the flagship for no other reason than residency.

I didn’t say anything of the sort, but ok.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I didn’t say anything of the sort, but ok.

Who said you did?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

If I gave you that impression, I did not mean to. In fact, the point of the first part of my post was actually to include Illini fans who smugly dismiss NU as a legitimate rival, as well. I don't think calling a team your "rival" is a compliment to them, and some fans (of all teams) seem to think it makes them cool or something to, like, reject other teams as a rival because they don't view them as good enough. Lol, I think that's dumb.

Well, that is fair, but I see nothing wrong with having a rival. The thing with the Illini/cats is neither seem to be good in a major sport at the same time. If the two schools were fighting for championships then the rivalry would be real.

Trash talking the other when they are in the cellar just misses the mark.

 

[7th Cir. Cat]

Well, that is fair, but I see nothing wrong with having a rival. The thing with the Illini/cats is neither seem to be good in a major sport at the same time. If the two schools were fighting for championships then the rivalry would be real.

Trash talking the other when they are in the cellar just misses the mark.

I think the rivalry aspect is much bigger for people who grew up/live here.

If you grew up in Illinois and went to NU then you have a ton of friends/classmates who went to Illinois, it's always nice to tweak your friends.

If you work in Chicago as I do, then you have to put up with Illinois grads in the office giving you grief because they suddenly returned to their Flying Illini days (or so they think). Honestly, makes it more fun, I'm glad they are having a good season. I'm looking forward to seeing NU in their "bad loss" column when they are on the bubble. At this point, it's the little things . . .

And I think Vic Law had an Illinois offer but I could be wrong on that one.

 

[GatoLouco]

Rivalries are fun if they are between normal fans/people. "Intense" rivalries are dumb. I work in an office with Indiana and Purdue fans. We make it our own rivalry. It's just an excuse to talk sports.

 

[Figrating]

12 point dogs = over matched again. Gotta be a real NU fan to watch the games these days.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

12 point dogs = over matched again. Gotta be a real NU fan to watch the games these days.

Worried this one might not be close.

 

[CappyNU]

Worried this one might not be close.

The Illini have a better defense than Purdue, who held us to 44, and they have a better offense than Purdue, beating them 63-37...This could get ugly fast.

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

The Illini have a better defense than Purdue, who held us to 44, and they have a better offense than Purdue, beating them 63-37...This could get ugly fast.

I’m hoping for a blowout, but I’m not expecting one. NU has absolutely nothing to lose, and they’ll be playing for improvement the rest of the season. Additionally, we’ve had a week off after being on a nice winning streak.

 

[DaCat]

Don't sleep on Illannoys.

 

[lou v]

They beat us out for Ayo.

Yes they did, but I give that recruiting battle an asterisk. Ayo was very interested in NU. He was scheduled to visit NU the week after Jordan Lathon did, but then Lathon committed shortly after his visit. Ayo was still very interested in NU, but NU shut his recruiting down as they told Lathon that he would be the only lead guard they were going to recruit. (So, Lathon's situation burned NU a couple different ways.)

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Yes they did, but I give that recruiting battle an asterisk. Ayo was very interested in NU. He was scheduled to visit NU the week after Jordan Lathon did, but then Lathon committed shortly after his visit. Ayo was still very interested in NU, but NU shut his recruiting down as they told Lathon that he would be the only lead guard they were going to recruit. (So, Lathon's situation burned NU a couple different ways.)

Why shut it down when you don’t use all of your ships? Silly to tell recruits you are the only guy at that position when another guy is beneficial to the team.

 

[DaCat]

Why shut it down when you don’t use all of your ships? Silly to tell recruits you are the only guy at that position when another guy is beneficial to the team.

Something called integrity?

 

[all4theillini]

We still have the HAT, and that's the most important thing.

140-39

But, by all means, keep stroking your hat.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

140-39

But, by all means, keep stroking your hat.

Lol

 

[7th Cir. Cat]

140-39

But, by all means, keep stroking your hat.

Congrats on the win, I hate you guys (this is a good thing). I'll be rooting for you in the tournament.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Something called integrity?

No, it’s ok to recruit good players at positions you have already got good players. IMO good players don’t fear good players they embrace them.

 

[Fitz51]

12 point dogs = over matched again. Gotta be a real NU fan to watch the games these days.

These days?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Congrats on the win, I hate you guys (this is a good thing). I'll be rooting for you in the tournament.

Not me, my second favorite team is whoever plays the Undies.

Guys like this troll make it easy. Come on NU board to get his ego stroked expecting to see our fans fawning over the almighty. Throw some stupid numbers out there that no one knows what they are and that makes them feel good. Usually all time records, those dark ages make us an easy target.

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

^ We have sucked for a decade. Let’s be gracious in victory.

 

[GatoLouco]

^ We have sucked for a decade. Let’s be gracious in victory.

Fantastic screen name. And agreed.

 

[Gladeskat]

140-39

But, by all means, keep stroking your hat.

Whatever the Illini are stroking these days, it certainly doesn't involve a trophy.