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In addition to the Law missed call, there was the Pardon foul where Thomas runs into Pardon who has his hands straight up in the air and Pardon gets the foul and then the Martin Krampelj lowering his shoulder into Benson and awkwardly falling on his butt that was called on Benson for blocking. Brutal calls.
Lindsey’s early foul trouble needs to be corrected. He was off all night and blew great games by Law and McIntosh. He needs to not commit ticky tack fouls early during the game. Creighton shot 50 percent from 3s, 87 percent from the foul line and got 50 points in the paint. That is not the recipe for success for NU. Lastly, our bench got outscored by a ton.
Fun game and Allstate Arena was loud for the final 10 minutes. You play competitive games against teams from power conferences and it will get loud.
Lindsey’s early foul trouble needs to be corrected. He was off all night and blew great games by Law and McIntosh. He needs to not commit ticky tack fouls early during the game. Creighton shot 50 percent from 3s, 87 percent from the foul line and got 50 points in the paint. That is not the recipe for success for NU. Lastly, our bench got outscored by a ton.
Fun game and Allstate Arena was loud for the final 10 minutes. You play competitive games against teams from power conferences and it will get loud.
Let's forget the traveling that was not called, which then led to a foul on us and two Creighton points. Where do they find these guys?
We must have been watching different games, because I didn’t get that feeling at all. Like any game, there were some calls that could have gone either way, and they went both ways. At no point, did I feel there was a terrible call that blatantly went against us. The Law out of bounds play late was called out because the ball bounced on the out of bounds line. There was never one view that disputed what was called and the ref called it immediately before Law even touched the ball.
It’s not always the refs fault. We lost because Creighton played well, hit some big shots late (including a huge offensive rebound put back with about 30 seconds left), and there are things NU needs to clean up. It was a great game though. Like is often the case when you play better competition, I think we benefited a lot more from this game than the first two.
We were watching different games. I've been to just about every home game for the past 20 years and have never seen the crowd be so hostile to the refs. They were awful.
Here is a Collins quote from the trib: Collins couldn't believe it, saying: "I know you guys are Big East refs, but holy cow, that was bad."
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Well, I guess it’s me versus the world on this then because I just didn’t see it that way. Not even close really. We lost because we deserved to lose. We had our chances. A lot of them. It’s not always someone else’s fault.
Did you notice in the first half a Creighton player at the top of the three point line picked up his dribble, then threw the ball up in the air, jumped up and caught it, came down, and wasn't called for a travel?
Collins was going nuts and the ref was literally ten feet away just staring at it. I've never seen anything like that.
I can think of a half-dozen calls that were complete head-scratchers, all of which went against the 'Cats.
On that particular play, the ref motioned that the ball had been tipped. Clearly incorrect, but that's at least why there was no whistle.
As was the case in the Gonzaga game, the main reason why the Cats lost was not the refereeing but the fact they fell behind double digits early. Last night the refs had nothing to do with our inability to switch on screens, going for the block on the pump fakes, or lack of bench scoring.
Creighton impressed me, and the Cats did too with both their grit and ability to score in the second half. That was a fun game to watch.
Creighton impressed me, and the Cats did too with both their grit and ability to score in the second half. That was a fun game to watch.
Found it - look at 7:05 in the first half. Crieghton players picks up dribble - throws it up while jumping, then jumps up again and grabs the ball that he threw to himself. No other player is anywhere near him!
This is such a fundamental call in basketball, I don’t see how two refs don’t make that call. Unless there’s something strange going on.
Also look at Pardon’s first foul at 14:21 - he’s completely set, setting a screen, the Blue Jay player hardly touches him. Other calls against Pardon... it’s like they had it out for him. The entire game was full of head scratchers from the referees.
Yeah, that’s the motion he made, but Skelly wasn’t anywhere near the guy and didn’t even make a motion towards the ball. To say it was tipped you’d have to be blind or hallucinating.
Here's a link to the image... can't figure out how to insert it: https://ibb.co/gArKnm
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Are you guys seriously going through the few plays in the game that had questionable calls? My Goodness.
Yes, the non-traveling call in the middle of the 1st half was a bad call. Did we expect that every single call would be perfect? Is that the expectation? If one or two calls go against us, is it automatically "the refs are terrible"? Did we not get even a single call in our favor last night? Doubtful. And if that was the worst refereeing for us in a home game in 20 years we have been the luckiest team in the country for the last 20 years.
How about all of the chances the actual Northwestern basketball players had...First of all, maybe don't get down by 15 points in the 1st half. We came out slow and played bad defense. Is that the refs fault? In the last three minutes alone:
- Pardon misses the front end of a one on one
- Up 3 with about 30 seconds left, they miss a jumper, and not only do we allow an offensive rebound, but we also allow a quick putback to go down by 5.
- We get the ball with 17 seconds left and down 4. In a big hole, but game is not over yet. But we take the entire 17 seconds to get a shot off.
We had our chances. We lost. Creighton deserved to win- they made some big shots late and we couldn't answer every time. It was not the refs fault. And the outcome of a game is almost never determined by the referees. It wasn't the Allstate Arena's fault either. This "always have to blame someone" culture we live in is nauseating.
And let me just guess...It was Steve Bartman's fault, wasn't it? Alex Gonzalez had nothing to do with it. Am I right?
Yes, the non-traveling call in the middle of the 1st half was a bad call. Did we expect that every single call would be perfect? Is that the expectation? If one or two calls go against us, is it automatically "the refs are terrible"? Did we not get even a single call in our favor last night? Doubtful. And if that was the worst refereeing for us in a home game in 20 years we have been the luckiest team in the country for the last 20 years.
How about all of the chances the actual Northwestern basketball players had...First of all, maybe don't get down by 15 points in the 1st half. We came out slow and played bad defense. Is that the refs fault? In the last three minutes alone:
- Pardon misses the front end of a one on one
- Up 3 with about 30 seconds left, they miss a jumper, and not only do we allow an offensive rebound, but we also allow a quick putback to go down by 5.
- We get the ball with 17 seconds left and down 4. In a big hole, but game is not over yet. But we take the entire 17 seconds to get a shot off.
We had our chances. We lost. Creighton deserved to win- they made some big shots late and we couldn't answer every time. It was not the refs fault. And the outcome of a game is almost never determined by the referees. It wasn't the Allstate Arena's fault either. This "always have to blame someone" culture we live in is nauseating.
And let me just guess...It was Steve Bartman's fault, wasn't it? Alex Gonzalez had nothing to do with it. Am I right?
This is a thread about the referees. We're evaluating their calls. No need to take it to logical extremes and get all hyperbolic (YOU'RE BLAMING EVERYTHING ON THE REFS! YOU'RE WHAT'S WRONG WITH SOCIETY!)... save it.
If you want to discuss the referees' performance (even in favor of NU) then by all means, give us concrete examples. If you don't want to discuss the referees, I'd recommend you move along to another thread. There are plenty.
Exactly. Jonny no need to make fun of guys for going through the tape-that’s why I tape the games. I’m surprised you haven’t done the exact same thing at some point.
No one disputes that there was and usually are several reasons for a losing a 40 minute game. Of the many, one is we let them get 48 points in the paint. But certainly you believe that guys play more tentative after 2 early fouls. The refs always have an influence bc they are human.
I think they called a bad game, you don’t. But this is a msg board for superfans, yeah I’ll rewatch the game for lots of reasons, mainly bc both teams played HARD. It was exciting. Don’t try to belittle for having a 2nd look at the calls I disagreed with in person.
I sit in row 3 (not bragging, k?) I had a perfect view of the no-tip call. As did the ref. It was one of 2 or 3 horrendous calls.
No one disputes that there was and usually are several reasons for a losing a 40 minute game. Of the many, one is we let them get 48 points in the paint. But certainly you believe that guys play more tentative after 2 early fouls. The refs always have an influence bc they are human.
I think they called a bad game, you don’t. But this is a msg board for superfans, yeah I’ll rewatch the game for lots of reasons, mainly bc both teams played HARD. It was exciting. Don’t try to belittle for having a 2nd look at the calls I disagreed with in person.
I sit in row 3 (not bragging, k?) I had a perfect view of the no-tip call. As did the ref. It was one of 2 or 3 horrendous calls.
Thanks for all the capital letters. That helped. And thanks for judging my place in society based on one post. I didn't say you were a problem with society. I don't know you, so I would never make a comment about your character like that. You could be a stand up guy for all I know- probably are actually. What I did say was that the constantly blaming of other people culture that I witness day in and day out is nauseating. I maintain that opinion and I'll discuss it wherever I feel it is appropriate, including in this thread where a prime example was presented. I will also use both lowercase and capital letters when doing so.
Unfortunately, I didn't take notes throughout the game. I had things going on last night that got me home very late so I turned off the cell phone, avoided looking at the score, and got up at 4:30AM this morning to watch it on DVR before I started my work day. Because of the early watch time, I didn't have my usual notepad handy noting all the times I thought we got screwed on calls or benefited from calls...and while I'd love to have time to go back and "re-watch the tape", having two young kids barely allows me time to even watch the game once, let alone re-watch a game multiple times, so that's not gonna happen. If that means you win the argument, then I guess I'll just have to live with that.
What I did do in this thread was explain in a few different posts that I thought the referees called a fair game. Like any game, there were some calls that could have gone either way. I felt that did happen throughout the game. Again, there are times when a referee's call or calls has a direct affect on the outcome of a game- I'm not disputing that. It happens. But at no point when I watched this particular game did I feel that was the case, which is why I was surprised to see a post blaming the referees when I logged on to the site today.
And to your last point...I think it's pretty obvious that I want to discuss referees since I've now responded to this thread a few times, with all my posts being about said referees. I think where you're getting caught up is that I don't agree with your opinion of complaining about the referees, especially when I point out several instances in the last couple minutes alone where we had opportunities and didn't take advantage of them. You can blame the refs all you want. I'll focus on the opportunities our players had to overcome any calls that you felt went against us.
Pete- my apologies if I offended anyone. Truly, that's not what I'm here to do. A pet peeve of mine is complaining about officiating, even though in the heat of the moment of a game, I will do a little bit of it myself. As I've said, bad calls happen in games, but I rarely feel they change the outcome of a game. If anything I said offended anyone, I apologize for that. Not the intention.
I missed the first half, so went in search of the no-call. Here it is:
It's pretty bad. But as others have said, better defense and not falling behind by 15 would have made it irrelevant.
It's pretty bad. But as others have said, better defense and not falling behind by 15 would have made it irrelevant.
How do you figure? We immediately wiped out the halftime deficit 2 minutes into the second half....
Surprised no one mentioned Bryant being elbowed in the face by the man he was guarding late that led to a basket. Even Bryant, who never complains was incredulous, gesturing to the refs with his elbow on the timeout that immediately followed. Just one of at least 10 lol bad calls that went against us that were lol bad compared to ONE bad call that went against Creighton.
When a coach who normally complains a lot about the refs hardly complains at all (I counted ONE complaint from McDermott). you know something was up. If you watched MSU/Duke and compared the work of the crew in that game (which was superb) to the work of this crew, it was absolute night and day.
When a coach who normally complains a lot about the refs hardly complains at all (I counted ONE complaint from McDermott). you know something was up. If you watched MSU/Duke and compared the work of the crew in that game (which was superb) to the work of this crew, it was absolute night and day.
What upset me most about that sequence is that the ref refused to listen to BMac and seemed to shoo him away/threaten a T before Collins got involved. Don’t know if they showed that on TV, but it was pretty clear live.
I get that players sometimes complain too much about nothing and that there are true whiners out there, but if you don’t know enough about the teams to know that BMac isn’t one of those players and deserves at least a little respect...
Feeds into the point that a friend made that perhaps these guys ref way too many games during the course of the season. There are so many schools playing now, with so many games, and I don’t know that the ref “talent pool” has expanded at all. Just like players, I don’t know that you can be expected to be the best version of yourself if you’re reffing 7 games in 7 nights and flying all over the country to do so.
Want to know what's funny? I saw tons of Duke AND Michigan State fans on Twitter complaining about how awful the refereeing was in that game- both negatively towards their own teams. Weird that when you are not a fan of one of the teams playing, you can actually have an objective view towards the officiating, but when it's your team playing, the refereeing is often "the worst". But that's probably just a coincidence.
+1. Still waiting for the first time some somebody - anybody - sounds good doing this. Any team, any sport, anywhere, anyhow . . . it hasn't happened yet.
I dunno, I thought this was pretty good.
Sounds like you guys ref games and/or are taking the SmartFan™ thing a bit too seriously.
Look, refs are human...some are better than others, sometimes they screw your team. Sometimes you DO lose because of a crap call. I don't know why that's so controversial.
No and no. If people want to complain about officiating, that's their right. If you or anyone else wants to be "the referees suck" sports fan guy, be my guest.
It's typically the same people complaining about officiating on these boards though. One of these times, that wolf is actually going to show up and cause some real damage.
If you've read any of my posts before, I've complimented officiating crews doing our own games on many occasions, including losses, and have defended officials on this site even in tough losses. There are certain crews that consistently earn my praises, in both basketball and football, and again, even in Wildcat losses. I am far from someone who always stated that the officiating was the worst, when we lost. But when it is not good, as it was on Wednesday, it should be called out. The refs themselves know when they have had an off night, and when they look at the tape of that game, they will spot the errors.
I would have no problem if the officials who officiated Duke-MSU (Ted Valentine, Lamont Simpson, and Pat Driscoll) reffed every one of our games, they are that good. If Duke and MSU message board yahoos think otherwise, they are delusional, imo; they are among the best in the biz, and there is a reason they were selected to officiate a #1 vs. #2 matchup.
Now compare that to those who reffed our game. Pat Driscoll who is a Top-20 official, coincidentally officiated in BOTH games, but he was the referee (lead official in our games) paired with two guys who, I believe, are well outside the Top 20. Now, I think Pat is quite good, but in a back-to-back situation where he just came off of Duke-MSU the prior night, it is certainly possible we are not getting his best effort. In the Duke-MSU game, he wasn't even the referee, since that was a essentially an all-star crew where Ted Valentine, generally considered to be a Top-5 official, was the ref. So you can see how one would expect a significant dropoff in the quality of officiating.
But the good news is, as long as we are ranked, we will see more and more officials who are in the top-20, and, in some cases more than one top-20 official in the same game (as was the case with Duke-MSU). Last year, I complained about less calls in our games than I can recall in a long time. And the reason for that is simple; we were a far better team, so we drew far better officiating crews to our games.
Ok, after that nice apology...now you are just being a sarcastic a$$ in my opinion. Thanks for the lesson in objectivity.
Um...So what. Keep waiting. Are we supposed to really care how you think it makes us look?
Of course not, Pete. You're not doing it for me; would think you'd want to look good for your own sake.
