ADVERTISEMENT

Should Gragg be put on an ultimatum?

O'Neill was not well then. I hope the best for him. Why would I wish bad for him, I am a Christian and I always wish the best for one and all. Good luck to KO.

That having been said maybe EC will chime in, he I think EC said (sorry if I am misquoting you EC) he would buy the entire bar at Marks II a round and sometimes buy two rounds and get sloshed. There are other stories. The next day he would go on complete tirades against the NU players. Hangover bad mood?

I have had distant family, second cousins and the like, with the sickness and I truly and honestly hope he cleans up. It can be done and I wish him the best as a Christian man. No one should suffer. He will be happier sober and coaching some high school team than afflicted.

Good luck to and one and all, including KO, and of course Go Cats.
 
I guess I’m still unclear on what ultimatum you’re saying Gragg should be given.

The football program just had a miraculous season despite all odds and the basketball program is still in the hunt for March Madness. The non-revenue sports, in aggregate, appear to be doing well (even though the wrestling team fell off a cliff partially due to Michigan’s NIL).

What ultimatum should Gragg be given? What objective measures should he be expected to improve upon?

“Become more popular with our internet fanbase in the next 12 months or you’re fired?” Doesn’t seem quite fair as an ultimatum to me.
Well, Gragg very publicly put CCC on notice to make the tourney or be fired. This was coming off the mediocre season and losing what we’re perceived to be our best players. As a recruit would you feel uneasy about that? Very few people thought last years team would be tourney bound before the season started. I know I didn’t.

The impact of doing this publicly was felt with our recruiting class. Now when we could use contributions from the Freshman we don’t have players capable of stepping up as depth players. Thank you Gragg. If he did this privately like most good leaders, it would be less of a red flag for this class. The three players had one P6 offer between then and 0 big ten offers. Again, the players may develop, I have no idea on that, but I do no they aren’t ready now. I was opening up the debate on whether Gragg’s actions were at least partially impacted NU’s path to the tourney.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zootcat and drewjin
Well, Gragg very publicly put CCC on notice to make the tourney or be fired. This was coming off the mediocre season and losing what we’re perceived to be our best players. As a recruit would you feel uneasy about that? Very few people thought last years team would be tourney bound before the season started. I know I didn’t.

The impact of doing this publicly was felt with our recruiting class. Now when we could use contributions from the Freshman we don’t have players capable of stepping up as depth players. Thank you Gragg. If he did this privately like most good leaders, it would be less of a red flag for this class. The three players had one P6 offer between then and 0 big ten offers. Again, the players may develop, I have no idea on that, but I do no they aren’t ready now. I was opening up the debate on whether Gragg’s actions were at least partially impacted NU’s path to the tourney.
100%

Even when Gragg opens his mouth he does damage. One would think CCC was a tab bit peeved by this message from his "boss". I would not be surprised in the least fs CCC left NU for another gig while this clown is in charge.
 
As much as our fans on here dislike him and even with the embarrassment around the baseball program: Gragg has actually had a lot of success as an AD in key areas (stadium construction, hiring and retaining Braun, and CCC’s turnaround).

Based on Schill being booed and Gragg not at that recent event, the silent majority of our fanbase might even like him.

Personally, I think that our athletic fortunes have risen primarily due to key donors following the 1995 Rose Bowl season, and also thanks to the incredible amount of funds from the B1G contracts.

Taylor, Murphy, Phillips, Gragg… it may not matter who’s running the AD while the B1G money’s rolling in.

Money talks, BS walks.
CMT, you are clearly either trolling or doubling down as a contrarian. Giving Gragg credit for Braun, CCC, or the stadium rebuild just shows how out of touch you are. I guess based on the money comment, you or I could do as well as Gragg as the AD. That makes some sense as I think it’s entirely possible we have posters that would be no worse.
 
Well, Gragg very publicly put CCC on notice to make the tourney or be fired. This was coming off the mediocre season and losing what we’re perceived to be our best players. As a recruit would you feel uneasy about that? Very few people thought last years team would be tourney bound before the season started. I know I didn’t.

The impact of doing this publicly was felt with our recruiting class. Now when we could use contributions from the Freshman we don’t have players capable of stepping up as depth players. Thank you Gragg. If he did this privately like most good leaders, it would be less of a red flag for this class. The three players had one P6 offer between then and 0 big ten offers. Again, the players may develop, I have no idea on that, but I do no they aren’t ready now. I was opening up the debate on whether Gragg’s actions were at least partially impacted NU’s path to the tourney.
How public was this? We talked about it on here but I don’t recall Gragg issuing a press release.

Unless Star basketball recruits followed this board closely I doubt they knew about the ultimatum. Once we made the tourney the overhang was lifted.
 
How public was this? We talked about it on here but I don’t recall Gragg issuing a press release.

Unless Star basketball recruits followed this board closely I doubt they knew about the ultimatum. Once we made the tourney the overhang was lifted.
CMT, you are clearly either trolling or doubling down as a contrarian. Giving Gragg credit for Braun, CCC, or the stadium rebuild just shows how out of touch you are. I guess based on the money comment, you or I could do as well as Gragg as the AD. That makes some sense as I think it’s entirely possible we have posters that would be no worse.

Troll job. He even posted on the thread showing the tweet. It was also a Chicago tribune article that is still one of the first links upon googling “Collins Gragg”.

A recruit is 100% going to read between the lines of “oh this coach would be fired if it weren’t for the buyout”. Losing seasons do hurt recruiting but not near as much as uncertainty at the head coaching position. Recruiting is a relationship game. No sense in committing to a guy who won’t be there by the time you get on campus. There was no need to make that conversation public. Support publicly and criticize privately.
 
A) I'm with Yeswecat on how much Rick Taylor did for the athletic department. I think people are ignoring how amateur-ish the department was before he came on board.

By the time Taylor left, there was still work to be done to get this to a B10 level. However, that was because the organization was so far in a hole when he began. Taylor was the first sign of an upper level in athletics. It's taken too much time to get to the reasonably competitive state the whole department is in now. Taylor was an important first step.

I've heard several people say what a prick he was. Would I rather have a prick who strongly improved the department or a nice guy like Mark Murphy who did nothing in his tenure?

B) All these years later, it continues to blow my mind what an effect KO's time had on people. He was here for THREE YEARS. That's a blip. I don't care how bad he was. It's nothing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: drewjin
CMT, you are clearly either trolling or doubling down as a contrarian. Giving Gragg credit for Braun, CCC, or the stadium rebuild just shows how out of touch you are. I guess based on the money comment, you or I could do as well as Gragg as the AD. That makes some sense as I think it’s entirely possible we have posters that would be no worse.
Again, I think 3 of the 4 ADs have been pretty average or below. I think we could have done better.

Murphy was the best but he was barely here and then joined the Packers.

What is the ultimatum you want to give to Gragg? I’m open to ideas but I’m not clear what you’re recommending Schill order him to improve upon… or else.
 
A) I'm with Yeswecat on how much Rick Taylor did for the athletic department. I think people are ignoring how amateur-ish the department was before he came on board.

By the time Taylor left, there was still work to be done to get this to a B10 level. However, that was because the organization was so far in a hole when he began. Taylor was the first sign of an upper level in athletics. It's taken too much time to get to the reasonably competitive state the whole department is in now. Taylor was an important first step.

I've heard several people say what a prick he was. Would I rather have a prick who strongly improved the department or a nice guy like Mark Murphy who did nothing in his tenure?

B) All these years later, it continues to blow my mind what an effect KO's time had on people. He was here for THREE YEARS. That's a blip. I don't care how bad he was. It's nothing.
Let's be honest, it was amateur hour until Phillips was hired. I have issues with some of his decisions (coaches contracts), but they guy made NU legit. Now we have an empty suit who is unwilling or unable to lead.
 
A) I'm with Yeswecat on how much Rick Taylor did for the athletic department. I think people are ignoring how amateur-ish the department was before he came on board.

By the time Taylor left, there was still work to be done to get this to a B10 level. However, that was because the organization was so far in a hole when he began. Taylor was the first sign of an upper level in athletics. It's taken too much time to get to the reasonably competitive state the whole department is in now. Taylor was an important first step.

I've heard several people say what a prick he was. Would I rather have a prick who strongly improved the department or a nice guy like Mark Murphy who did nothing in his tenure?

B) All these years later, it continues to blow my mind what an effect KO's time had on people. He was here for THREE YEARS. That's a blip. I don't care how bad he was. It's nothing.
He did not try and keep. Barnett and hired KO. That’s enough for me to say he sucked.
 
What exactly is the ultimatum and what action(s) could Gragg take to achieve the stated goals?
 
  • Like
Reactions: CatManTrue
We don’t make the tourney and he gets booted for gross negligence.
I think some of our posters are looking to lash out over their disdain for our AD.

How about we fire him if we lose to Indiana? Or if any of our other starters get hurt?

That’s as arbitrary as what you’re proposing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IGNORE2
I think some of our posters are looking to lash out over their disdain for our AD.

How about we fire him if we lose to Indiana? Or if any of our other starters get hurt?

That’s as arbitrary as what you’re proposing.
Yeah I mean just fire him then lol
 
  • Love
Reactions: IGNORE2
Yeah I mean just fire him then lol
Yup. I’m open to objective, measurable, and reasonable goals for everyone- especially those making seven figures like Gragg, CCC, and Braun.

Making it based off of this season - where, had we not blown the Chicago State and other games, we’d be sitting pretty now - is ridiculous.

If there are key performance indicators we could leverage to build a case either way… then I’m open.

If @Purple Pile Driver had simply started a thread called “FIRE GRAGG!, then this would be much more cut and dry.

I am curious what performance measures Athletic Directors are held to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IGNORE2
Yup. I’m open to objective, measurable, and reasonable goals for everyone- especially those making seven figures like Gragg, CCC, and Braun.

Making it based off of this season - where, had we not blown the Chicago State and other games, we’d be sitting pretty now - is ridiculous.

If there are key performance indicators we could leverage to build a case either way… then I’m open.

If @Purple Pile Driver had simply started a thread called “FIRE GRAGG!, then this would be much more cut and dry.

I am curious what performance measures Athletic Directors are held to.
The job description is to support and enhance athletics. Primarily intercollegiate athletes. This entails shaking a lot of hands and kissing a lot of babies. How many people do you know that actually have met the man? You are a donor or at least was. Does Gragg have you so fired up you are writing a check to support our programs?

Maybe it’s hard to define his responsibilities because we never hear from him or see him after he hands out The ceremonial ball to a sponsor before he catches the second half on his 80 inch Sony.

Fire Gragg
Fire Schill
 
Some folks felt Gragg lit a fire under CCC by giving him the very public “ultimatum” to make the tourney or pack his bags. CCC hired the wizard to shore up the defense and to some he changed his ways/habits for the better. The team won and CCC was spared the death sentence.

However, reading about our lack of depth and quandary we find ourselves in with the loss of Ty got me thinking of the flip side. The ultimatum made it very difficult to recruit. Our freshman class is the result of the difficulty. That class is currently One guy that plays and has struggled mightily with his game and confidence and 2 players that I couldn’t pick out of a line up of Maine South players. Now these players could blossom like Barney or even Big Matt and go from no playing time to strong contributors, but they are not helping us this year when we really need them. This is the year we have a generational talent at PG and had a legitimate shot to win a couple games in the tourney with any type of contribution from our depth players. They had one P6 ( or whatever the BBall term is for power conference) offer between them.

CCC is like most Coaches in a position that he has to rely on transfers to fill holes while the lightly recruited new players develop. In typical NU fashion, the administration makes it difficult to recruit transfers. Mullins is the rare undergraduate transfer. Mostly NU gets the graduate one and done transfer. Tough sledding.

Coach Braun is facing a similar situation in the future as this first class was dramatically impacted by the incredibly poor handling of the Hazing scandal. The school does him zero favors by being on the quarter system and a transfer process that is so rigid it reviews college players High School transcripts to determine admissions. Forget that they have successfully completed college work!

I think a case can be made that Gragg torpedoed the depth of the program with the ultimatum. CCC didn’t do it, Lowry didn’t do it, Jordan Clayton isn’t responsible. Maybe if NU doesn’t make the tourney, the ultimatum switches to Gragg? Of course, Gragg is Teflon to Schill as his human shield, and if he wasn’t canned for his handling of Baseball and even Volleyball he is likely safe at least until lawsuits are resolved.

Our Coaches and especially our players deserve better!
And what would you suggest that he have to get right in order to stay??
 
  • Like
Reactions: IGNORE2
One final note on Kevin O'Neil. Our family met him at the Hotel we were staying at for the 2008 Alamo Bowl in San Antonio some seven or eight years after he coached at Northwestern. I believe he was an Assistant with the Memphis Grizzllies at the time. The team was also staying at the same Hotel. He was relaxed and cordial. So I asked him, would Northwestern ever make it to the NCAA mens basketball tourney? He smiled and said he was confident they would in the near future. That they were making progress. He seemed to still have an interest in the Cats and was earnest in his assertion. Maybe getting to the tournament took a little longer then we would have hoped at the time, but he was right and my guess is that he was very happy when it did happen.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: drewjin
One final note on Kevin O'Neil. Our family met him at the Hotel we were staying at for the 2008 Alamo Bowl in San Antonio. I believe he was an Assistant with the Memphis Grizzllies at the time. The team was also staying at the same Hotel. He was relaxed and cordial. So I asked him, would Northwestern ever make it to the NCAA mens basketball tourney. He smiled and said he was confident they would in the near future. That they were making progress. He seemed to still have an interest in the Cats and was earnest in his assertion. He was right.
It was still a while after
 
He did not try and keep. Barnett and hired KO. That’s enough for me to say he sucked.
You sure that he did not try to keep Barnett? KO had a reputation of turning programs around. You could not keep him for long as he would wear thin but he was good for the turnaround and we sure needed it at the time
 
Well, Gragg very publicly put CCC on notice to make the tourney or be fired. This was coming off the mediocre season and losing what we’re perceived to be our best players. As a recruit would you feel uneasy about that? Very few people thought last years team would be tourney bound before the season started. I know I didn’t.

The impact of doing this publicly was felt with our recruiting class. Now when we could use contributions from the Freshman we don’t have players capable of stepping up as depth players. Thank you Gragg. If he did this privately like most good leaders, it would be less of a red flag for this class. The three players had one P6 offer between then and 0 big ten offers. Again, the players may develop, I have no idea on that, but I do no they aren’t ready now. I was opening up the debate on whether Gragg’s actions were at least partially impacted NU’s path to the tourney.
Sure, absent that public statement, loads of talented, ready to contribute freshmen were lined up to play with this program that lost its best players and annually sucked… makes a lot of sense. Odd they also hadn’t committed early - so they could wait until all the due was cast before going elsewhere.

Have any names to match these great thoughts?
 
Never said that - you know it. In fact, I said the opposite. Can’t attract recruits after losing for years with little light for the future.

So of course, you have no names of these mystery star recruits ran off after another losing season because Gagg spoke out publicly.

Per usual, you are light on facts and heavy on unsupported opinion. And personally critical of anyone that should disagree with you.
You’ve always said academics is not a disadvantage, yet 99.9999% of people in the world (notably except you and PWB) agree that it is. Tell me you haven’t said that.

You always forget how I proved to the Board that CCC should be retained. I did it with facts, which is in direct contrast to your statement.

Gragg’s ultimatum was in March 2022. All of our 2023 prospects decided after that later in 2022 and virtually all were recruited by CCC prior to March 2022. Most all of us know it was poorly handled by doing it publicly. With Cam Christie and Taison Chatman and Parker Fredrichsen and Cam Carr all seriously in the mix, I (not being on the staff or in their minds) can only opine that they were influenced. Feel free to prove me wrong that they were not.
 

You always forget how I proved to the Board that CCC should be retained. I did it with facts, which is in direct contrast to your statement.
I appreciate you, SDak, and I love your optimism and your support for Coach Collins, but this is crazy talk. No one has ever proven anything with facts on this board of any other corner of our glorious internet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: IGNORE2
I appreciate you, SDak, and I love your optimism and your support for Coach Collins, but this is crazy talk. No one has ever proven anything with facts on this board of any other corner of our glorious internet.
By his own logic, he proves Gagg was right to apply the pressure as the proof are on the results - hire of Lowery and trip to the Dance :)
 
You’ve always said academics is not a disadvantage, yet 99.9999% of people in the world (notably except you and PWB) agree that it is. Tell me you haven’t said that.

You always forget how I proved to the Board that CCC should be retained. I did it with facts, which is in direct contrast to your statement.

Gragg’s ultimatum was in March 2022. All of our 2023 prospects decided after that later in 2022 and virtually all were recruited by CCC prior to March 2022. Most all of us know it was poorly handled by doing it publicly. With Cam Christie and Taison Chatman and Parker Fredrichsen and Cam Carr all seriously in the mix, I (not being on the staff or in their minds) can only opine that they were influenced. Feel free to prove me wrong that they were not.

Prior to last season, Collins was not performing at an acceptable level. Prior to be fired, Fitz was not performing at an acceptable level. Its pretty simple.

No one on this board saw last year coming. We never could have imagined that losing Pete Nance and Ryan Young was actually addition by subtraction. We never saw that losing Miller Kopp to Indiana would be a positive for the program. No one could have predicated Boo Buie would start playing at an all-american level and that Audige would be Big DPOY.

One thing I will say is that overall, Collins and his staff do not waste scholarships. All three NU recruits who came in last year have decent film, and any criticism is based on their recruiting profile and not their actual performance on the Court - especially because two of them are redshirting. I am not saying that they will contribute because we honestly just don't know but Clayton certainly has the physical skills to play in the Big10.

Also, do you think that Hunger and Martinelli had higher recruiting profiles than this year's freshman? Remember that Martinelli had signed with Elon and only "fell" into Collins' lap because the Elon coach left to be an assistant at Duke. Martinelli was going to redshirt his freshman year as well but Collins was forced to play him. Hunger had an offer from Miami but he never contributed as he broke his foot his freshman year. By all accounts at this point last year, the class of Hunger and Martinelli looked like a non-factor for the program. And the class before that - well two have left the program leaving only Barnhizer on the roster. Also, the big transfer coming in before last season to fill the gap - a big from UTEP.

I am just not seeing where anyone thought things were going so well with recruiting and retention that the ultimatum impacted recruiting.

But with all of this going on - somehow Collins won Big COY and seems to have turned around the program. And before you freak out and say this class with be the death of the program, if Berry and Nicholson return, that means NU returns 4 starters next year and all Collins has to do to be competitive - land a starting combo guard in the portal because the rest of the pieces are there to be a mid level big program with an outside shot to get to the NCAA tourney.









Anyway,
 
A. I have asked repeatedly for names of recruits in play of decomitted after the Gagg statement
B. I disagree with your statement. I think some recruits would see the action as a school committed to turn it around and would hold onto until I see if it worked or who the new coach would be.
C. There were no recruits at the time Gagg commented that we missed out on or decommited. Tree falling in a forest. Unless you think last years hail of recruits and transferred sucked and we would have done better. If so, show me examples from last dance.
Just because there were no decommits doesn’t mean it made recruiting way more difficult. That uncertainty at the HC position kept us out of the mix for a few recruits. If you disagree with recruiting being a relationship game and that most athletes pick the coach over the school then you haven’t talked to many D1 basketball prospects.

I am in no way writing off our current freshman. I actually think Clayton could develop really nicely. I am not going to write off people I haven’t seen play at the college level. I also acknowledge losing makes recruiting harder. It’s not black and white this or that. Recruiting is an art with many factors. The main factor for most recruits is relationships.
 
Last edited:
Prior to last season, Collins was not performing at an acceptable level. Prior to be fired, Fitz was not performing at an acceptable level. Its pretty simple.

No one on this board saw last year coming. We never could have imagined that losing Pete Nance and Ryan Young was actually addition by subtraction. We never saw that losing Miller Kopp to Indiana would be a positive for the program. No one could have predicated Boo Buie would start playing at an all-american level and that Audige would be Big DPOY.

One thing I will say is that overall, Collins and his staff do not waste scholarships. All three NU recruits who came in last year have decent film, and any criticism is based on their recruiting profile and not their actual performance on the Court - especially because two of them are redshirting. I am not saying that they will contribute because we honestly just don't know but Clayton certainly has the physical skills to play in the Big10.

Also, do you think that Hunger and Martinelli had higher recruiting profiles than this year's freshman? Remember that Martinelli had signed with Elon and only "fell" into Collins' lap because the Elon coach left to be an assistant at Duke. Martinelli was going to redshirt his freshman year as well but Collins was forced to play him. Hunger had an offer from Miami but he never contributed as he broke his foot his freshman year. By all accounts at this point last year, the class of Hunger and Martinelli looked like a non-factor for the program. And the class before that - well two have left the program leaving only Barnhizer on the roster. Also, the big transfer coming in before last season to fill the gap - a big from UTEP.

I am just not seeing where anyone thought things were going so well with recruiting and retention that the ultimatum impacted recruiting.

But with all of this going on - somehow Collins won Big COY and seems to have turned around the program. And before you freak out and say this class with be the death of the program, if Berry and Nicholson return, that means NU returns 4 starters next year and all Collins has to do to be competitive - land a starting combo guard in the portal because the rest of the pieces are there to be a mid level big program with an outside shot to get to the NCAA tourney.









Anyway,
Your memory is not helping you here. Did you participate in the seemingly endless debate as to how I defended Collins and argued that he is doing well and things were actually improving, and not a “dumpster fire”, per @IGNORE2 (which started this hole discussion)? I’m not looking for glory; I’m just looking for some common understanding that we already had an excellent head coach.
I appreciate you, SDak, and I love your optimism and your support for Coach Collins, but this is crazy talk. No one has ever proven anything with facts on this board of any other corner of our glorious internet.
i appreciate you as well, but there are facts in this world and there is an ability to prove them with a preponderance of evidence / beyond a reasonable doubt. Sometimes that involves data. And I am not an attorney…
 
Your memory is not helping you here. Did you participate in the seemingly endless debate as to how I defended Collins and argued that he is doing well and things were actually improving, and not a “dumpster fire”, per @IGNORE2 (which started this hole discussion)? I’m not looking for glory; I’m just looking for some common understanding that we already had an excellent head coach.

i appreciate you as well, but there are facts in this world and there is an ability to prove them with a preponderance of evidence / beyond a reasonable doubt. Sometimes that involves data. And I am not an attorney…

You are missing the point of my response. My response was directed at the post that the recruiting suffered because of the ultimatum - it did not. Recruiting was already where it was and the current in class is no different the proceeding class and the class before that had two players hit the portal.

I am happy you supported Collins and believed - despite three consecutive seasons with double digit losing streaks and what looked like a downward trend in recruiting and the loss of two all time best recruits - that things were getting better. I did not. That you can look at the success of last season as vindication for your opinion is great but it does not change that the ultimatum was warranted and that it did not impact recruiting, which was my point. It also does turn your opinion into fact - it just means your opinion as a fan was vindicated by events totally outside of your control. Also, there is no way that you woke up on the eve of last season and said - Collins is such an awesome coach that he is gonna lead this team predicted to finish last to a second place finish and garner Big COY honors. Also - there are some posters who should just be ignored and not debated.
 
You are missing the point of my response. My response was directed at the post that the recruiting suffered because of the ultimatum - it did not. Recruiting was already where it was and the current in class is no different the proceeding class and the class before that had two players hit the portal.

I am happy you supported Collins and believed - despite three consecutive seasons with double digit losing streaks and what looked like a downward trend in recruiting and the loss of two all time best recruits - that things were getting better. I did not. That you can look at the success of last season as vindication for your opinion is great but it does not change that the ultimatum was warranted and that it did not impact recruiting, which was my point. It also does turn your opinion into fact - it just means your opinion as a fan was vindicated by events totally outside of your control. Also, there is no way that you woke up on the eve of last season and said - Collins is such an awesome coach that he is gonna lead this team predicted to finish last to a second place finish and garner Big COY honors. Also - there are some posters who should just be ignored and not debated.
Ok thanks. I don’t agree on the recruiting / ultimatum (impact and need), and I definitely never said I could predict CCC as COY, but I also sincerely appreciate your thoughtful posts.
 
Just because there were no decommits doesn’t mean it made recruiting way more difficult. That uncertainty at the HC position kept us out of the mix for a few recruits. If you disagree with recruiting being a relationship game and that most athletes pick the coach over the school then you haven’t talked to many D1 basketball prospects.

I am in no way writing off our current freshman. I actually think Clayton could develop really nicely. I am not going to write off people I haven’t seen play at the college level. I also acknowledge losing makes recruiting harder. It’s not black and white this or that. Recruiting is an art with many factors. The main factor for most recruits is relationships.
Exactly right. Anyone that has ever been a recruit understands that if a HC is on the hot seat, you likely move on unless it by far your best option. All things being semi-equal you move on.
 
Prior to last season, Collins was not performing at an acceptable level. Prior to be fired, Fitz was not performing at an acceptable level. Its pretty simple.

No one on this board saw last year coming. We never could have imagined that losing Pete Nance and Ryan Young was actually addition by subtraction. We never saw that losing Miller Kopp to Indiana would be a positive for the program. No one could have predicated Boo Buie would start playing at an all-american level and that Audige would be Big DPOY.

One thing I will say is that overall, Collins and his staff do not waste scholarships. All three NU recruits who came in last year have decent film, and any criticism is based on their recruiting profile and not their actual performance on the Court - especially because two of them are redshirting. I am not saying that they will contribute because we honestly just don't know but Clayton certainly has the physical skills to play in the Big10.

Also, do you think that Hunger and Martinelli had higher recruiting profiles than this year's freshman? Remember that Martinelli had signed with Elon and only "fell" into Collins' lap because the Elon coach left to be an assistant at Duke. Martinelli was going to redshirt his freshman year as well but Collins was forced to play him. Hunger had an offer from Miami but he never contributed as he broke his foot his freshman year. By all accounts at this point last year, the class of Hunger and Martinelli looked like a non-factor for the program. And the class before that - well two have left the program leaving only Barnhizer on the roster. Also, the big transfer coming in before last season to fill the gap - a big from UTEP.

I am just not seeing where anyone thought things were going so well with recruiting and retention that the ultimatum impacted recruiting.

But with all of this going on - somehow Collins won Big COY and seems to have turned around the program. And before you freak out and say this class with be the death of the program, if Berry and Nicholson return, that means NU returns 4 starters next year and all Collins has to do to be competitive - land a starting combo guard in the portal because the rest of the pieces are there to be a mid level big program with an outside shot to get to the NCAA tourney.









Anyway,
The entire premise of the thread is silly, of course. But also, the team is good *because* CCC has stopped chasing stars and started chasing attitude and film.

Consider Sundays starting five:
PG without P5 offers, and also the best player in the history of the program
SG from Princeton, who played the best game of his career and was a zero-star kid
SF from Lafayette who led Indiana in scoring and still couldn’t get an offer from Purdue or IU
PF who would have gone to Elon except that his coach preferred an administrative job at Duke
C who won a state title and didn’t get a sniff from Michigan or MSU

This program is *better* because NU hasn’t chased stars.

Would we want rosters that looked like IU’s? — all empty five-stars?

Do we want more Berans and Kopps, or more Martinells and Langborgs?

We don’t know how good players are until they play. Recruiting rankings are *absolutely* a guess after the top ten or so, and a top 75 and a top 200 have basically the same possibilities of success (no math or research here, just my inclination).

I won’t link it, but it’s hilarious to look at Dennys all time top Northwestern basketball commits.


In conclusion, we cannot issue an ultimatum anyway, but perhaps we can consider an unsigned Open Letter from THE ENTIRE WILDCATREPORT MESSAGE BOARD. (I don’t wish to sign, but that doesn’t matter if you write ENTIRE.)
 
The entire premise of the thread is silly, of course. But also, the team is good *because* CCC has stopped chasing stars and started chasing attitude and film.

Consider Sundays starting five:
PG without P5 offers, and also the best player in the history of the program
SG from Princeton, who played the best game of his career and was a zero-star kid
SF from Lafayette who led Indiana in scoring and still couldn’t get an offer from Purdue or IU
PF who would have gone to Elon except that his coach preferred an administrative job at Duke
C who won a state title and didn’t get a sniff from Michigan or MSU

This program is *better* because NU hasn’t chased stars.

Would we want rosters that looked like IU’s? — all empty five-stars?

Do we want more Berans and Kopps, or more Martinells and Langborgs?

We don’t know how good players are until they play. Recruiting rankings are *absolutely* a guess after the top ten or so, and a top 75 and a top 200 have basically the same possibilities of success (no math or research here, just my inclination).

I won’t link it, but it’s hilarious to look at Dennys all time top Northwestern basketball commits.


In conclusion, we cannot issue an ultimatum anyway, but perhaps we can consider an unsigned Open Letter from THE ENTIRE WILDCATREPORT MESSAGE BOARD. (I don’t wish to sign, but that doesn’t matter if you write ENTIRE.)
Langborg had a LOT of interest as a transfer.
 
Prior to last season, Collins was not performing at an acceptable level. Prior to be fired, Fitz was not performing at an acceptable level. Its pretty simple.

No one on this board saw last year coming. We never could have imagined that losing Pete Nance and Ryan Young was actually addition by subtraction. We never saw that losing Miller Kopp to Indiana would be a positive for the program. No one could have predicated Boo Buie would start playing at an all-american level and that Audige would be Big DPOY.

One thing I will say is that overall, Collins and his staff do not waste scholarships. All three NU recruits who came in last year have decent film, and any criticism is based on their recruiting profile and not their actual performance on the Court - especially because two of them are redshirting. I am not saying that they will contribute because we honestly just don't know but Clayton certainly has the physical skills to play in the Big10.

Also, do you think that Hunger and Martinelli had higher recruiting profiles than this year's freshman? Remember that Martinelli had signed with Elon and only "fell" into Collins' lap because the Elon coach left to be an assistant at Duke. Martinelli was going to redshirt his freshman year as well but Collins was forced to play him. Hunger had an offer from Miami but he never contributed as he broke his foot his freshman year. By all accounts at this point last year, the class of Hunger and Martinelli looked like a non-factor for the program. And the class before that - well two have left the program leaving only Barnhizer on the roster. Also, the big transfer coming in before last season to fill the gap - a big from UTEP.

I am just not seeing where anyone thought things were going so well with recruiting and retention that the ultimatum impacted recruiting.

But with all of this going on - somehow Collins won Big COY and seems to have turned around the program. And before you freak out and say this class with be the death of the program, if Berry and Nicholson return, that means NU returns 4 starters next year and all Collins has to do to be competitive - land a starting combo guard in the portal because the rest of the pieces are there to be a mid level big program with an outside shot to get to the NCAA tourney.









Anyway,
Nice use of facts to support your contentions.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT