So 3 seasons under the belt for Collins and no post season to speak of...

[MysticCat]

So NU loses its most athletic player for the season last year and then its starting center for a substantial portion of the season of the Big 10 season and wins 20 games after winning 15 games in the first season without Collins' players and a weak roster with limited depth in his second season. Bottom line is Collins at the age of 41 who is a tireless recruiter and a solid game coach is not going anywhere. As for the silly NIT argument. NU did not make the NIT because a new rule stole 13 bids from the NIT because non-power conference regular season winners were given automatic bids. Collins has recruited 4 four star players in three recruiting years. That has not happened before. And that is not including its star player McIntosh who plays like a 4 star player. Even their 3 star recruits in Pardon and Skelly have consistently flashed more athleticism and skills than backup players in prior regimes. Too bad some fans can't see that the Princeton offense and the 1-3-1 defenses are gimmicks that won't win enough in Power Conferences to get to the NCAA tourney which is the goal and not the NIT tourney.

Yes, that "new" nit rule they implemented.... In 2006. The one all 4 bc teams had to contend with.

Research georgetowns postseason appearance history since they went to the Princeton offense. Literally the only power conference team to run it goes to the postseason every year but one.

Other than that... Nice post.

Ps.

Loved watching skelly flash that athleticism!

 

[MysticCat]

I think we could make it this year, and I suppose we shall see what happens. Thanks for writing the team off before the season has even begun though. That really impresses.

Hilarious that a Carmody lover would put Collins on the hot seat for not making it to the NCAA's in his 4th year, but was willing to give BC 13.

It also says how bare the cupboard really was. At least KON left Carmody enough to get to the NIT before his recruits arrived. At least Foster gave both Byrdsong and KON enough (Esch) to get to the NIT. I think this year we should contend for the Tourney. But, the bar should be the following season. If with a whole roster of his own recruits, Collins cannot get us to the tourney, then yes, he should be put on the hot seat. No way we should give him anything close to 13 years, that's for damn sure.

More revisionist history here ecat: bc never went to the nit with any KON recruits. I guess Cortez, drayton, Hughes, long and towne just weren't quite enough to sneak us in.

 

[NJCat]

More revisionist history here ecat: bc never went to the nit with any KON recruits. I guess Cortez, drayton, Hughes, long and towne just weren't quite enough to sneak us in.

Facts have a nasty habit of getting in the way of great ECat arguments......

 

[pawildcat]

Not even close. NU won 11 Big 10 games against just 1 loss in 1931 under Dutch Lonborg. Dutch also went 10-2, 9-3 (twice), and 8-4 (thrice), so let's not get too excited about an 8-10 finish! Bill Rohr went 8-6 3 times.....Rich Falk 8-10 in that excellent '82-83 season, and of course one other coach had 2 8-10 seasons..........

The '30s were definitely a great time to be an NU fan as the football team was something of a power in that decade as well. Hey, the Cubs also won three pennants in the '30s. Unfortunately, that is a very long time ago.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

More revisionist history here ecat: bc never went to the nit with any KON recruits. I guess Cortez, drayton, Hughes, long and towne just weren't quite enough to sneak us in.

Nor did Ajou, Turner, Abrahamson, Cerina.

Stop being such a prick, Mystic. If you're so bitter about Carmody (and you are) that you want the current team to fail, why even bother coming over here?

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

More revisionist history here ecat: bc never went to the nit with any KON recruits. I guess Cortez, drayton, Hughes, long and towne just weren't quite enough to sneak us in.

To be fair, Carmody did get Ben Johnson (who was a decent player) for a year before he decided to go back home to Minnesota. Jitim was also a KON recruit (an incoming freshman when coaching change occurred).

But yeah, KON's scorched earth approach left BC with practically nothing.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

To be fair, Carmody did get Ben Johnson (who was a decent player) for a year before he decided to go back home to Minnesota. Jitim was also a KON recruit (an incoming freshman when coaching change occurred).

And Ed McCants. Aaron Jennings was the best center BC had in his 13 years at NU. Winston Blake was decent...

 

[clarificationcat]

To be fair, Carmody did get Ben Johnson (who was a decent player) for a year before he decided to go back home to Minnesota. Jitim was also a KON recruit (an incoming freshman when coaching change occurred).

But yeah, KON's scorched earth approach left BC with practically nothing.

No depth but Hardy, Jitim, Ben Johnson, Winston Blake, Aaron Jennings and Jason Burke were not awful. When they added VV to the mix they actually had a decent team.

 

[willycat]

No depth but Hardy, Jitim, Ben Johnson, Winston Blake, Aaron Jennings and Jason Burke were not awful. When they added VV to the mix they actually had a decent team.

This group couldn't fine success under Carmody. Guess it was because the administration failed to support him and wanted Collins at all costs. On second thought that group doesn't sound like the "bare cupboard" some continue to say was left for Bill.

 

[MysticCat]

This group couldn't fine success under Carmody. Guess it was because the administration failed to support him and wanted Collins at all costs. On second thought that group doesn't sound like the "bare cupboard" some continue to say was left for Bill.

Almost hard to believe this group couldn't find success: let's take a closer look.

- Blake shot 24% from 3 at one starting guard spot.

- Burke with his career average of 4 pts and 2 rebounds at forward.

- a middle of the pack pf in hardy who couldn't shoot the 3 to save his life (21%).

- aj at center

- a legally blind point guard who averaged 4 pts, 4 rebounds, and 3 assists in his career while shooting 29% from 3 as a senior.

Mccants Off the bench: 4 pts, 2 rebounds, 27% from 3.

And the prize holdover, Ben Johnson, who as a 5th year senior came off the bench for the 12-18, 3-13, 10th place Gophers.

Hard to believe alright. Not sure what bc was doing but he sure wasn't maximizing all that talent he inherited!

Some of the KON guys on this roster didn't even start for their teams when they transferred to non D1 programs.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Almost hard to believe this group couldn't find success: let's take a closer look.

- Blake shot 24% from 3 at one starting guard spot.

- Burke with his career average of 4 pts and 2 rebounds at forward.

- a middle of the pack pf in hardy who couldn't shoot the 3 to save his life (21%).

- aj at center

- a legally blind point guard who averaged 4 pts, 4 rebounds, and 3 assists in his career while shooting 29% from 3 as a senior.

Mccants Off the bench: 4 pts, 2 rebounds, 27% from 3.

And the prize holdover, Ben Johnson, who as a 5th year senior came off the bench for the 12-18, 3-13, 10th place Gophers.

Hard to believe alright. Not sure what bc was doing but he sure wasn't maximizing all that talent he inherited!

Some of the KON guys on this roster didn't even start for their teams when they transferred to non D1 programs.

Having fun crapping over a bunch of former players?

I repeat, AJ was the best center BC had in his entire 13 year tenure. That's pretty telling.

Also, I think you're "just a tad off" on McCants' collegiate stats.

 

[Sec.112]

A) Ecat is not as far off as the usual suspects want to make him. I'll leave it at that.

B) After years of this, let me be the first to say the ongoing narrative about Drayton's eyesight is incredibly scummy. And I don't blame anybody on a message board for making that a regular part of the discussion. It was repeated FAR too often as a cheap explanation for early performances. It totally undermines what Drayton added to the program. Yes, his offense wasent a strength. But he was obviously a leading force on defense that influenced Jitim among others. The defense with Drayton, Young and other guards was as game-changing as NU has seen.

I can easily put together a long list of players with good eyesight who offered far less than Drayton.

 

[MysticCat]

I repeat, AJ was the best center BC had in his entire 13 year tenure.

Okay. Personally I'll take the McDonalds All-American BC recruited and landed, but if you want Aaron Jennings, then to each his own. Can I interest you in a Patrick Towne or a Harry Good off the bench while you're at it?


Also, I think you're "just a tad off" on McCants' collegiate stats.
--------
What career stats are you talking about? I'm confused.

 

[NJCat]

Having fun crapping over a bunch of former players?

I repeat, AJ was the best center BC had in his entire 13 year tenure. That's pretty telling.

Also, I think you're "just a tad off" on McCants' collegiate stats.

I think BC did pretty well his first season with a line-up whose top 8 scorers were: 2 Juniors, 4 Sophomores, and 2 true Freshmen. In 2 years those guys actually went from a dismal 5-25 season to a winning record. Age and experience matter, and KON didn't leave the cupboard bare by any means. The talent was there it just needed development and experience.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

What career stats are you talking about? I'm confused.

That doesn't surprise me. His "collegiate stats"!!

Okay. Personally I'll take the McDonalds All-American BC recruited and landed, but if you want Aaron Jennings, then to each his own.

How did BC do with that McDonald's All-American in the quarter season he had him? AJ was faaaaaaaar more productive. That's an undeniable fact...

 

[NJCat]

How did BC do with that McDonald's All-American in the quarter season he had him? AJ was faaaaaaaar more productive. That's an undeniable fact...

Sad but true.

 

[Sec.112]

More revisionist history here ecat: bc never went to the nit with any KON recruits. I guess Cortez, drayton, Hughes, long and towne just weren't quite enough to sneak us in.

Better watch out using the names Cortez, Towne or Good too loosely. Any comparison to the back part of the roster Carmody inherited might ruin the whole narrative that Collins is the only evil NU coach who drives off players.

 

[MysticCat]

That doesn't surprise me. His "collegiate stats"!!



How did BC do with that McDonald's All-American in the quarter season he had him? AJ was faaaaaaaar more productive. That's an undeniable fact...

He went 9-7 with MT. 56% winning pct.

39-49 with AJ. 44% winning pct.

Any other questions?

What were you saying earlier about undeniable?

 

[NJCat]

He went 9-7 with MT. 56% winning pct.

39-49 with AJ. 44% winning pct.

Any other questions?

What were you saying earlier about undeniable?

To be fair, MT flamed out of not 1 but 2 different academic institutions. Not exactly a player to brag about.......

 

[MysticCat]

To be fair, MT flamed out of not 1 but 2 different academic institutions. Not exactly a player to brag about.......

Nobody's bragging, just like no one was crapping on players.

These are numbers. Facts. Collier Dayton was legally blind. There has been zero opinion offered. I know you guys hate the bare truth when it doesn't support your preconceived notions, but I didn't know stats would get you all in a tizzy.

If this thread is too complicated just move on and start one about how exciting it is that cc is saying all the right things in student interviews!

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

He went 9-7 with MT. 56% winning pct.

39-49 with AJ. 44% winning pct.

Any other questions?

What were you saying earlier about undeniable?

So...not going to touch the production numbers. Or the fact that your All-Anerican quit on the team during the season? THAT'S what you'd rather have?

You're making yourself look awfully bad here...

 

[willycat]

Nobody's bragging, just like no one was crapping on players.

These are numbers. Facts. Collier Dayton was legally blind. There has been zero opinion offered. I know you guys hate the bare truth when it doesn't support your preconceived notions, but I didn't know stats would get you all in a tizzy.

If this thread is too complicated just move on and start one about how exciting it is that cc is saying all the right things in student interviews!

Just how many times are you going to lie and defame former NU BB players? You really need to get yourself another hobby maybe chauffer or masseuse for your boy Carmody. I betting that you wouldn't say these things to the players face, especially Collier.

 

[Walker Fan]

The NIT gave out at least 15 bids to teams from mid-major conferences who won their regular season that is an unusually high number. Also, one bid go out to VaTech a team that NU beat on the road this past season.

 

[MysticCat]

Just how many times are you going to lie and defame former NU BB players? You really need to get yourself another hobby maybe chauffer or masseuse for your boy Carmody. I betting that you wouldn't say these things to the players face, especially Collier.

If an ex player asked me his career fg percentage, or any other stat, and I had a computer handy, I'd be happy to tell him what it was.

And since he was interviewed about it for a newspaper while at nu I'm pretty sure collier Drayton knows he was blind in one eye.

Thais a perfect example of Willie. Doesn't like the actual facts and stats and numbers because they expose him as an idiot, so he calls them defamatory and lies, but has nada, zilch, zero idea why he even thinks that.

Show me one defamation or lie willie.

See the irony? You're lying!

4th try is the charm!

 

[MysticCat]

So...not going to touch the production numbers. Or the fact that your All-Anerican quit on the team during the season? THAT'S what you'd rather have?

You're making yourself look awfully bad here...

Okay, let's touch on them:

In their NU careers, MT averaged more points, rebounds, assists, and steals than AJ, and had a higher shooting %, and a higher 3 point % and a higher winning %.

How's that for production?

Any other questions?

Tell ya what: why don't you post something, we can assume it's wrong, and I won't have to come back and refute it.


4th try is the charm!

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Okay, let's touch on them:

In their NU careers, MT averaged more points, rebounds, assists, and steals than AJ, and had a higher shooting %, and a higher 3 point % and a higher winning %.

How's that for production?

Any other questions?

Tell ya what: why don't you post something, we can assume it's wrong, and I won't have to come back and refute it.


4th try is the charm!

Lol! AJ was far more productive over his career than MT (and he didn't quit either). The fact that you can't admit that is pretty bad....but very funny!

Enjoy reminiscing about the good 'ol days of MT!

 

[MysticCat]

Lol! AJ was far more productive over his career than MT (and he didn't quit either). The fact that you can't admit that is pretty bad....but very funny!

Enjoy reminiscing about the good 'ol days of MT!

Typical Virginia comeback:

I know you just disproved everything I've been saying, and I know he wasn't more productive in ANY measurable way that utilizes ANY actual basketball statistic, but, ya know, just overall he was more .... ya know.... Productive..... and stuff. Ya know, all the stuff that might refute all the stats and facts that determine a players true production.... or something..... I can't cite anything right now but there could be some somewhere....

Amazing.

Where do you even go with this now? He sang our fight song louder at a pep rally?

Holy shite!

Are you still all torn up about cc being 0-3, and bc having yet another march madness under his belt in the meantime? That's understandable, but you can't twist fact after fact to pretend it's not true.

Come back to reality my man!

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Typical Virginia comeback:

I know you just disproved everything I've been saying, and I know he wasn't more productive in ANY measurable way that utilizes ANY actual basketball statistic, but, ya know, just overall he was more .... ya know.... Productive..... and stuff. Ya know, all the stuff that might refute all the stats and facts that determine a players true production.... or something..... I can't cite anything right now but there could be some somewhere....

Amazing.

Where do you even go with this now? He sang our fight song louder at a pep rally?

Holy shite!

Are you still all torn up about cc being 0-3, and bc having yet another march madness under his belt in the meantime? That's understandable, but you can't twist fact after fact to pretend it's not true.

Come back to reality my man!

Look at career totals and get back to me.

 

[Styre]

The NIT gave out at least 15 bids to teams from mid-major conferences who won their regular season that is an unusually high number. Also, one bid go out to VaTech a team that NU beat on the road this past season.

NU's RPI was 115. Here are the RPIs of those 15 teams, plus Virginia Tech:

Akron: 34
St. Mary's: 38
San Diego State: 41
Valparaiso: 49
Monmouth: 52
Hofstra: 54
IPFW: 71
UAB: 84
Virginia Tech: 89
Belmont: 95
New Mexico State: 110

NU: 115

High Point: 157
North Florida: 161
Bucknell: 182
Texas Southern: 183
Wagner: 184

So you can only argue that 5 of those teams "stole" a bid from NU. But the problem is that there were far more than 5 teams with better RPIs than NU that also missed the NIT. NU missed the NIT because of their low RPI, not because of any quirk of the rules.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

And Ed McCants. Aaron Jennings was the best center BC had in his 13 years at NU. Winston Blake was decent...

Disagree with the Jennings comment.

In my view, Mirk was much better. He didn't have much passion for the game as the years went by, but was pretty darn effective when he wanted to be. I've always thought Luka caught more flak than necessary.

McCants certainly had potential (and capitalized on it at Milwaukee - as we have all been reminded over the years), but his own extra circular activities ended his stay at NU. Even adding Blake to the mix who was a decent player, it was clear O'Neil's act had worn thin. His roster - being devoid of upperclassmen with BIG experience - reflected that.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Disagree with the Jennings comment.

In my view, Mirk was much better. He didn't have much passion for the game as the years went by, but was pretty darn effective when he wanted to be. I've always thought Luka caught more flak than necessary.

He was benched as a senior during an extremely important series of games to finish the season. Doesn't sound like the kind of center anyone would want to hang their hat on...

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

He was benched as a senior during an extremely important series of games to finish the season. Doesn't sound like the kind of center anyone would want to hang their hat on...

I acknowledged his passion waned as the seasons went by (was more into MMA or something like that), but I'll take soph/junior Mirk over Jennings any day.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

I acknowledged his passion waned as the seasons went by (was more into MMA or something like that). But I'll take soph/junior Mirk over Jennings any day.

If you're blaming a lack of focus...wow! The guy couldn't focus for his senior year during what could have been a groundbreaking season!!!? That says a lot...about Mirk AND BC's motivation abilities..

 

[MysticCat]

Look at career totals and get back to me.

You are actually trying to prop up your assertion that Jennings, who played 4 years, was better because his career totals are more than a guy who played one year?

Wow.

Just wow.

Ps.
And how do you feel about "crapping" all over a former player?

You should be ashamed of your hypocritical self. Do you know the reason NU gave for why MT could no longer play basketball?

What should we expect from the guy who spends years bashing bc and his players, but when anyone points out that CC can't even get us on the NIT bubble in 3 years, you cry that all the fans aren't being loyal and supportive enough.

Wahhhhhh!!!!!

 

[MysticCat]

If you're blaming a lack of focus...wow! The guy couldn't focus for his senior year during what could have been a groundbreaking season!!!? That says a lot...about Mirk AND BC's motivation abilities..

Maybe Bc wasn't the master motivator that CC has proven to be for example in the case of Vassar.

Whoops, never mind.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

You are actually trying to prop up your assertion that Jennings, who played 4 years, was better because his career totals are more than a guy who played one year?

He didn't play a full year. He played about 15 games before quitting. So yeah, AJ's career contributions blow MT's out of the water. It's not even a matter of debate.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

If you're blaming a lack of focus...wow! The guy couldn't focus for his senior year during what could have been a groundbreaking season!!!? That says a lot...about Mirk AND BC's motivation abilities..

Luka was injured during 2011-12 campaign as well. Certainly didn't help matters. But regardless, don't know why you're using exclamation points and such. Individuals can disagree, you know.

There's a really nice article out there on Mirk that was done the summer after he graduated. Seems like a good dude.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

But regardless, don't know why you're using exclamation points and such. Individuals can disagree, you know.

I used exclamation points because you're indicating it was a lack of interest. That's kind of a damning statement...

 

[MysticCat]

He didn't play a full year. He played about 15 games before quitting. So yeah, AJ's career contributions blow MT's out of the water. It's not even a matter of debate.

The old bait and switch FAIL.

You didn't say he "contributed more", you said he was better....than that changed to more productive, then that changed to.....whatever.....then all that changed somehow into career totals!

Unbelievable.

You've been word-mincing around for so long you forgot what your original point was.

Come on Virginia, just as an exercise make a post you can actually defend. It can be about anything.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

I used exclamation points because you're indicating it was a lack of interest. That's kind of a damning statement...

You're hyper focusing on one thing I said to twist my comments around. I said I'd take soph/junior Mirk over Jennings.

People tend to forget how much pressure was on the Shurna era squads (and will be on future NU squads that are near the bubble) to breakthrough; how often they were asked the same questions over and over. That stress could beat anyone down, let alone 18-22 year olds.

Agree to disagree on the Mirk vs Jennings thing. You're not changing your mind and neither am I.