Crawford was a great leader with a lot of skill but he didn't really produce much more than Hardy did in his last year, so I almost consider them a wash. Cobb was a nice veteran to have but he wasn't healthy enough to really make a consistent difference. And it's hard to consider Sobo an asset given his shooting woes (which kind of carried over from the end of the prior year). Blake and Jitim both produced in their second seasons under Carmody, so the potential was realized pretty quickly. I know the conference was down in 2001-2002, but the team finished 6th in the conference. The addition of VV certainly helped but it was Hardy, Blake and Young that carried the team. And on both rosters there were a lot of players that didn't belong on a high major team, which has been the case for almost the entire time I have been watching the team. If there has been one encouraging trend under Collins (other than the dramatically better rebounding), it's that almost every player on the team has the potential to contribute.
So 3 seasons under the belt for Collins and no post season to speak of...
- Thread starter Katatonic
- Start date
Crawford was a great leader with a lot of skill but he didn't really produce much more than Hardy did in his last year, so I almost consider them a wash. Cobb was a nice veteran to have but he wasn't healthy enough to really make a consistent difference. And it's hard to consider Sobo an asset given his shooting woes (which kind of carried over from the end of the prior year). Blake and Jitim both produced in their second seasons under Carmody, so the potential was realized pretty quickly. I know the conference was down in 2001-2002, but the team finished 6th in the conference. The addition of VV certainly helped but it was Hardy, Blake and Young that carried the team. And on both rosters there were a lot of players that didn't belong on a high major team, which has been the case for almost the entire time I have been watching the team. If there has been one encouraging trend under Collins (other than the dramatically better rebounding), it's that almost every player on the team has the potential to contribute.
You make some good points.
I do think having a few experienced, quality players in that very first year can make a difference though. It makes the transition not as rough and helps to bring in the next crop of players. Wins in Madison and Bloomington are nice to have in your back pocket when on the recruiting trail.
FWIW, some numbers to think about:
Crawford: 15.7 pts; 6.4 reb ; 2.2 ast (2012-13) - 6.4 rebs for a 6'5 small forward is pretty darn good
Hardy: 12.4 pts; 6.4 reb ; 2.4 ast (2001-02) - could have really used Tavaras 10 years later
Jershon was actually pretty healthy up to the homestretch of conference play (having the previous year off was probably good for his body). His numbers were pretty strong too:
Cobb: 12.2 pts ; 4.8 reb ; 2.3 ast (2012-13)
Last edited:
Yes, KO had an abrasive personality and some left because of it. But others chose to not play under BC in his system. The cupboard was not bare (not overflowing but not bare)
Huh. KO was a flaming asshole alcoholic. Worst hire in the history of NU sports. At least Rick Venturi was a good guy (I heard him speak at Hinman House my Senior year).
Right.
Cortez and mccants chose to get arrested and expelled. Towne chose to take his talents to division 3, Drew Long got injured and his career was over. And Harry Goid chose to average 1 career point and 1 rebound elsewhere. And the blind guy. And our all-star who rode the pine as a 5th year senior for the worst team in the league. A guy who by all accounts his teammates were thrilled to see go.
Which left only Virginia's all-wildcat team of Blake, hardy, Burke, jitim and Jennings. Jitim, who in 4 years as a b10 guard still couldn't bring the ball across half court against token pressure or make a wide open 3.
Now how bc couldn't get those guys into the sweet 16 is beyond me. Should have fired him then and there.
Last edited:
Hey Captain Facts - You're really just pitiful at this point. Next time you want to offer the long soliloquy on facts, maybe you should consider your own posts.
a) Cortez attended NU until 2005. He was not expelled.
b) How much more stupid could you be to label Johnson multiple times as someone who rode the pine in his final year at Minnesota? The man played 28+ m/g in his final year and started 29 of 30. He averaged 11.5 with 51% from the field. He scored 1200 pts in his career at the two schools.
Oh, and by the way, while you bash his character with your crappy little wink-wink tidbit, you might also consider he was a captain both years at Minnesota.
But you go right ahead and keep pretending you have a clue. And next time you want to throw Jitim under the bus as part of your campaign, you might want to consider he didn't play one minute for O'Neill.
My favorite part of the 15-year-old comparison to KO is that the man was at NU three friggin' years. What should concern you is that there's ANY comparison between the talent level at the end of Billy C's run and KO's three lousy years. And as we've seen, there's plenty to compare.
It's laughable that people are still so outraged by KO. He was a blip ... a crappy blip, but still ... here and gone ... poof. If Collins decided to mimic KO's run, he'd resign this September.
And here we are, doing the same ol' song and dance because people dare to say Carmody already had a few ingredients when he arrived.
Let's hope the Collins era eventually speaks for itself so we don't have to continue this eye-rolling disagreement to prop up mediocre teams and mediocre coaches.
Jitim was probably the best player at NU during the BC era in many regards (though I probably do put Shurna above him). BC had no chance recruiting against Izzo, so he should thank KON for that assist. Speaking of Blake - how the heck do you stack the likes of Marcotullio and kid who started for BC but ended up a backup by his senior year? Clearly, the talent levels are worlds better under CCC and the results will come sooner rather than later.
I think Carmody doing what he did with less was one of his strong points. He did get a lot out of the team, considering how unfit they largely were for the B1G. That was Carmody's biggest problem and my biggest complaint. He could not attract B1G level talent to this program consistently and to the depth needed. Sure he pulled in a Shurna or Crawford every now and then, but we were often 2 or 3 B1G quality players playing against a roster full of like or better talent. It was showing up to a gun fight with a knife. Carmody may have had some brilliance in fighting with a knife, but that doesn't help when you can't outrun a bullet. Of course, I hated his general philosophy as it related to rebounding and defense (which basically was summed up as not at all important), but the main reason he could only do as well as he did and had no hope of doing any better, and why we should have canned him years ago, was he had no ability or interest to recruit the talent needed to win in the B1G. We finally have a coach who has that ability and the passion and I believe the coaching chops to get us to the promised land, but we get this bitter fringe element pining for the days of BC. SMH
There is no doubt in my mind we are going to NCAA's under CCC. My only question is whether it will happen this year. It very well could, though I could also see us neededing to flush out the remaining elements of the BC regime and allow CCC to have his own fully recruited team.
Glad to see you have back-tracked from your certainty that this is the year to my way of thinking that it will be 2018........
The question is, of course, whether CCC will ultimately be bringing a Red Ryder (you'll shoot your eye out) or an AK. Trajectory of talent appears good, but continuing that trajectory is contingent on winning, and soon.
BC was unconventional. CCC is conventional. Neither has worked so far, at least as measured by thay binary 'Have they made it?' criteria.
What the hell is the matter with you, other then you hate Collins and loved Carmody. 112, below refuted your facts with actual facts and let me add that you should be ashamed of yourself because of your insults towards that 'blind guy". Please get lost.
Evanston Cat is right on the money as usual.
As for next year, NU is a wildcard team. Players make a big development jump between freshman and sophomore years. That might mean that Falzon and Pardon make big positive jumps. Law might also be ready to improve on his solid second half of the season his freshmen year. There are obvious question marks in Lindsey, RI, Isiah Brown and Benson who had at least 6 Big 10 offers. If a couple of guys live up to expectations. I am not even mentioning Skelly who has developing skills and could be a real solid impactful player off the bench, NU might have something. You have to predict that Maryland, Iowa would be not as strong as last year.
As for next year, NU is a wildcard team. Players make a big development jump between freshman and sophomore years. That might mean that Falzon and Pardon make big positive jumps. Law might also be ready to improve on his solid second half of the season his freshmen year. There are obvious question marks in Lindsey, RI, Isiah Brown and Benson who had at least 6 Big 10 offers. If a couple of guys live up to expectations. I am not even mentioning Skelly who has developing skills and could be a real solid impactful player off the bench, NU might have something. You have to predict that Maryland, Iowa would be not as strong as last year.
No back track. I still think this year is possible. If not now, we should at least give CCC until 2018 to see what he can do with a roster of his recruits only.
If by 2018 he isn't making any progress, I think he must be on the hotseat.
You are really a joy to have on this board. No one was saying that Carmody should have done anything more with the team he inherited. No one. So stop making shit up. All we said was that he had some pieces for a decent team, just like the team that Collins inherited. How else do you explain the 6th place finish with O'Neil's recruits and the back to back last place finishes with his own recruits? And how you can talk trash about Jitim is beyond me. You've probably never played a sport in your life other than golf. If you are picking a team, you want Jitim on it. If you knew anything about basketball, you would understand that.
My favorite Jitim memory: He absolutely stoned future NBAer Devin Harris (held him to 7 points I think) in a 17-point drubbing of the Badgers. Don't remember how many Jitim scored that day (I believe it was close to 20 points) but his hardnosed defense had Harris talking to himself by game's end.
Similar threads
