Some things just don’t seem to change

[eastbaycat99]

Almost exactly three years ago, I wrote that I thought it might be time for Collins to move on, as the team was slipping into another bad year, writing:

“I am hard pressed to think of who could have had even a possibility of the success Collins has brought the Cats since his hiring. The Cats have had certifiably top tier coaches (Winters and Foster) who could not recruit players, a coach whose technical skill (Carmody) brought them to the edge of competitiveness, but no one has been able to bring in the talent Collins has, even with its degree of incompletion, and get to the tournament. I really feel that he brought, from a marketing perspective, a unique confluence of credibility (the long Duke connection and the association in the Chicago area with his Dad’s success) at a time the university was both enjoying some success in football and investing in facilities, making it all attractive to incoming players. He was the right person for a unique time.

Having said that, I think the limitations he has as a coach, both tactically and strategically, are becoming apparent. From a tactical perspective, he sometimes seems to lose control of situations and matchups as a game wears on, and the game slips away. From a strategic perspective, he has made some poor recruiting decisions.”

I went on to say that I had lost a lot of interest in the team, and had stopped watching games in real time, recording them, checking the score and only watching if the game seemed entertaining, and that the situation was deteriorating, with the prospect of losing any recruiting advantage he had previously had, and his losing value on the coaching market, concluding it was probably time for the University to encourage him to consider options in the NBA or elsewhere.

I don’t think much has changed.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Almost exactly three years ago, I wrote that I thought it might be time for Collins to move on, as the team was slipping into another bad year, writing:

“I am hard pressed to think of who could have had even a possibility of the success Collins has brought the Cats since his hiring. The Cats have had certifiably top tier coaches (Winters and Foster) who could not recruit players, a coach whose technical skill (Carmody) brought them to the edge of competitiveness, but no one has been able to bring in the talent Collins has, even with its degree of incompletion, and get to the tournament. I really feel that he brought, from a marketing perspective, a unique confluence of credibility (the long Duke connection and the association in the Chicago area with his Dad’s success) at a time the university was both enjoying some success in football and investing in facilities, making it all attractive to incoming players. He was the right person for a unique time.

Having said that, I think the limitations he has as a coach, both tactically and strategically, are becoming apparent. From a tactical perspective, he sometimes seems to lose control of situations and matchups as a game wears on, and the game slips away. From a strategic perspective, he has made some poor recruiting decisions.”

I went on to say that I had lost a lot of interest in the team, and had stopped watching games in real time, recording them, checking the score and only watching if the game seemed entertaining, and that the situation was deteriorating, with the prospect of losing any recruiting advantage he had previously had, and his losing value on the coaching market, concluding it was probably time for the University to encourage him to consider options in the NBA or elsewhere.

I don’t think much has changed.

You were early, but I think your assessments of our past and present coaches are pretty accurate.

 

[phatcat]

Almost exactly three years ago, I wrote that I thought it might be time for Collins to move on, as the team was slipping into another bad year, writing:

“I am hard pressed to think of who could have had even a possibility of the success Collins has brought the Cats since his hiring. The Cats have had certifiably top tier coaches (Winters and Foster) who could not recruit players, a coach whose technical skill (Carmody) brought them to the edge of competitiveness, but no one has been able to bring in the talent Collins has, even with its degree of incompletion, and get to the tournament. I really feel that he brought, from a marketing perspective, a unique confluence of credibility (the long Duke connection and the association in the Chicago area with his Dad’s success) at a time the university was both enjoying some success in football and investing in facilities, making it all attractive to incoming players. He was the right person for a unique time.

Having said that, I think the limitations he has as a coach, both tactically and strategically, are becoming apparent. From a tactical perspective, he sometimes seems to lose control of situations and matchups as a game wears on, and the game slips away. From a strategic perspective, he has made some poor recruiting decisions.”

I went on to say that I had lost a lot of interest in the team, and had stopped watching games in real time, recording them, checking the score and only watching if the game seemed entertaining, and that the situation was deteriorating, with the prospect of losing any recruiting advantage he had previously had, and his losing value on the coaching market, concluding it was probably time for the University to encourage him to consider options in the NBA or elsewhere.

I don’t think much has changed.

This reminds me of being in college and drinking way too much (tourney year) and then you feel sick (bad years) and are needing to throw up (fire the coach) but you don't accept that you need to (keep the coach) so you muddle through with a long hangover ( more years of shitty play)

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

This reminds me of being in college and drinking way too much (tourney year) and then you feel sick (bad years) and are needing to throw up (fire the coach) but you don't accept that you need to (keep the coach) so you muddle through with a long hangover ( more years of shitty play)

You way overthink your party years.

 

[EagerFan]

I like what Collins brings to the team - recruiting and excitement. I wonder who's available in the assistant coach realm for player development and in-game coaching brilliance, because that's what he doesn't bring.

 

[NJCat]

player development and in-game coaching brilliance, because that's what he doesn't bring.

Those seem to me to be attributes you'd expect a head coach making in excess of $3 million a year to bring, no?

 

[peatymeanis]

I like what Collins brings to the team - recruiting and excitement. I wonder who's available in the assistant coach realm for player development and in-game coaching brilliance, because that's what he doesn't bring.

Recruiting and excitement? According to who?

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Recruiting and excitement? According to who?

High-Ball-Screen-Fetish.com

 

[NUCat320]

Recruiting and excitement? According to who?

There’s more talent at any time than in the program’s history, and never has Northwestern so frequently been a finalist for true top-tier talent.

 

[7th Cir. Cat]

There’s more talent at any time than in the program’s history, and never has Northwestern so frequently been a finalist for true top-tier talent.

And yet for all the “top tier” talent he’s brought in the best players in the last 25 years are Shurna and Crawford. I don’t think it’s pure talent that got us to the tourney.

 

[peatymeanis]

There’s more talent at any time than in the program’s history, and never has Northwestern so frequently been a finalist for true top-tier talent.

Talent is demonstrated on the court, not on internet rankings. By his on court results, his conference record, Collins has not demonstrably been able to put together more talent than any other coach. Many of Collins most heralded recruits are flops - Lathon, Rap, Kopp, Beran etc etc. He can’t recruit a decent PG for the life of him ever since lucking out with BMac.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Talent is demonstrated on the court, not on internet rankings. By his on court results, his conference record, Collins has not demonstrably been able to put together more talent than any other coach. Many of Collins most heralded recruits are flops - Lathon, Rap, Kopp, Beran etc etc. He can’t recruit a decent PG for the life of him ever since lucking out with BMac.

Did Lathon ever suit up for NU Meaty?

 

[peatymeanis]

Did Lathon ever suit up for NU Meaty?

Are you a NU grad? I’m surprised your reading comprehension is so poor. Let me break it down for you so that even an Illini grad could understand.

- Lathon was heavily targeted by Collins and staff, his verbal was heralded as a huge recruiting win.
- Through Lathon’s own actions, and none of Collins’, he didn’t ever become a NU player
- On top of his personal failings, Lathon seems to be a terrible player as well

Therefore, we have yet another example of Collins wasting recruiting time and energy on a player that is both a bad basketball player and someone with serious conduct issues. Does that strike you as an example of Collins recruiting prowess? Or is it an example of the opposite?

Hope that helps.

 

[NUCat320]

And yet for all the “top tier” talent he’s brought in the best players in the last 25 years are Shurna and Crawford. I don’t think it’s pure talent that got us to the tourney.

Talent is demonstrated on the court, not on internet rankings. By his on court results, his conference record, Collins has not demonstrably been able to put together more talent than any other coach. Many of Collins most heralded recruits are flops - Lathon, Rap, Kopp, Beran etc etc. He can’t recruit a decent PG for the life of him ever since lucking out with BMac.

I’ve taken to trotting out the “never been more talent” line every few weeks during the conference season the past few years, when it was clear that Benson/Falzon/Kopp/Beran/whomever wasn’t that good of a player, no matter what the experts thought when those players were 17.

Collins’ first group was great, Pardon was great, and then there was a whole lot of bad until Nance’s 2020-21 season.

I’ll note my own optimism about Berry and Roper, but there’s nobody on the roster outside of Nance that could start for other good teams in the conference.

Recruiting rankings are meaningless outside of the top 30 or so.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Are you a NU grad? I’m surprised your reading comprehension is so poor. Let me break it down for you so that even an Illini grad could understand.

- Lathon was heavily targeted by Collins and staff, his verbal was heralded as a huge recruiting win.
- Through Lathon’s own actions, and none of Collins’, he didn’t ever become a NU player
- On top of his personal failings, Lathon seems to be a terrible player as well

Therefore, we have yet another example of Collins wasting recruiting time and energy on a player that is both a bad basketball player and someone with serious conduct issues. Does that strike you as an example of Collins recruiting prowess? Or is it an example of the opposite?

Hope that helps.

Illinois grad? You talk about my reading comprehension? What a dope? Where have I touted CCC’s recruiting prowess? In fact, I have been touting our talent as bottom half B1G. However, I get shouted down at every turn when I bring that up. Get accused a having a narrative. Are we counting Brumbaugh as a CCC recruit even though he never played a minute either? How long have you followed NU hoops Meaty one? Please list me all of the powerhouses we have fielded. Please list the NBA players NU has produced. Yeah, we are loaded with talent. It’s amazing we can recruit at all, with that 800 people in the stands and academic requirements that eliminate most of the elite prospects.

Pointing out poor recruiting or flops is fine. Making a comment like hasn’t been able to recruit a PG to save his life is ignorant. You completely omit Boo. I know you’ll say he isn’t a PG, but that is non sense, but I guess you are looking for John Stockton in purple. He is the second best player on this team now, despite all the haters on here. Where was he rated in HS? Of course CCC gets zero credit for landing Boo from Meaty. Just like he “lucked out” on BMac. No, you have no agenda whatsoever. A player remotely pans out and it’s lucky, he doesn’t pan out he is a CCC flop. CCC has missed on plenty of recruits, but many have been Bigs. I would argue his recruiting of Bigs is more questionable. Misses tend to happen a lot to NU no matter who the Coach is, Go figure.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Talent is demonstrated on the court, not on internet rankings. By his on court results, his conference record, Collins has not demonstrably been able to put together more talent than any other coach. Many of Collins most heralded recruits are flops - Lathon, Rap, Kopp, Beran etc etc. He can’t recruit a decent PG for the life of him ever since lucking out with BMac.

You can recruit better talent and still lose if the coach doesnt develop the talent or deploy it effectively.
Thats what is happening at NU, in my opinion.
Others are forced to say the talent is no good because they like Collins and can't explain the losses any other way.

Since 2018, Northwestern is 6-22 in games decided by five points or less.

 

[NUCat320]

You can recruit better talent and still lose if the coach doesnt develop the talent or deploy it effectively.
Thats what is happening at NU, in my opinion.
Others are forced to say the talent is no good because they like Collins and can't explain the losses any other way.

Since 2018, Northwestern is 6-22 in games decided by five points or less.

I generally believe the talent is not very good *and* is developed poorly.

Frankly, that makes this season frustrating:
Nance has developed into quite a good player, and at a good trajectory. Certainly a feather in the cap of the staff. Boo has gotten better. Like Boo, Young is a scouting/development win. And I think Roper and Berry have the looks of good players. And Williams was a nice find and Audige is the same (though misplaced as the #3 option on a good team).

And, NU rid itself of Kopp, probably the best example of the ‘ratings >> eyeballs’ problem of so many here.

Spear the turtle.

 

[peatymeanis]

Where have I touted CCC’s recruiting prowess?

Literally in this same comment where you want to praise him for recruiting the great Boo Buie. By your standards, Carmody must have been a great PG recruiter.

And yes, Brumbaugh is on Collins, considering he is half of the recruiting class. Spending time and resources on a kid like that who screws you after signing day is on the head coach.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Literally in this same comment where you want to praise him for recruiting the great Boo Buie. By your standards, Carmody must have been a great PG recruiter.

And yes, Brumbaugh is on Collins, considering he is half of the recruiting class. Spending time and resources on a kid like that who screws you after signing day is on the head coach.

I thought you would interpret it that way. My point, and I understand you disagree, is there have been recruits that have been wins and recruits that have been losses. Boo is a win under any objective measurement. Boo is a PG. Benson is a loss. I believe Roper shows potential. We will see. Maybe he’ll leave after CCC gets booted. Maybe he’ll be a star and it will because of the development of a new Coach. Since NU never gets the program changing top 50 recruit, they have to hit on a higher percentage of their signees. CCC has had a dud(s) based on expectations in just about every class.

and no, I never once said Carmody was a good recruiter.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

You can recruit better talent and still lose if the coach doesnt develop the talent or deploy it effectively.
Thats what is happening at NU, in my opinion.
Others are forced to say the talent is no good because they like Collins and can't explain the losses any other way.

Since 2018, Northwestern is 6-22 in games decided by five points or less.

So why is saying talent needs to improve an invalid reason to explain losses? It’s not like I just pulled it out of my ass after the PSU loss. I have been on this bandwagon for the entire duration of the current group. It’s not that there aren’t B1G players, it’s that they lack the player that can take over and stop runs and consistently get the critical basket at the critical time. The Alpha dog. You don’t need to be John Wooden to see that.

 

[GatoLouco]

I thought you would interpret it that way. My point, and I understand you disagree, is there have been recruits that have been wins and recruits that have been losses. Boo is a win under any objective measurement. Boo is a PG. Benson is a loss. I believe Roper shows potential. We will see. Maybe he’ll leave after CCC gets booted. Maybe he’ll be a star and it will because of the development of a new Coach. Since NU never gets the program changing top 50 recruit, they have to hit on a higher percentage of their signees. CCC has had a dud(s) based on expectations in just about every class.

and no, I never once said Carmody was a good recruiter.

Don't sleep on Simmons. I think folks are mentioning Roper more as he looks a bit more polished in the way he moves and shoots. Simmons looks a bit more awkward and has a bit of a funky looking shot. There's a good chance Simmons will be a better player than Roper. I can't possibly have any confidence on Barnhizer, but Simmons gives me confidence he will be solid.

 

[GatoLouco]

You can recruit better talent and still lose if the coach doesnt develop the talent or deploy it effectively.
Thats what is happening at NU, in my opinion.
Others are forced to say the talent is no good because they like Collins and can't explain the losses any other way.

Since 2018, Northwestern is 6-22 in games decided by five points or less.

I believe people get a bit caught up in associating a good player with good development. And, while it is very hard to evaluate, the measure of player development is not whether a kid turns out to be a good player, as much as it is seeing a kid develop beyond what was normal to expect from him. In other words, if a kid would develop into a decent player with any coach, that does not make him a success in development.

For me Pardon was a huge win. Lindsey was kind of a win. Beyond those two, I'm not sure about anyone who, IMO, was a clear player who developed beyond expecations.

 

[7th Cir. Cat]

I believe people get a bit caught up in associating a good player with good development. And, while it is very hard to evaluate, the measure of player development is not whether a kid turns out to be a good player, as much as it is seeing a kid develop beyond what was normal to expect from him. In other words, if a kid would develop into a decent player with any coach, that does not make him a success in development.

For me Pardon was a huge win. Lindsey was kind of a win. Beyond those two, I'm not sure about anyone who, IMO, was a clear player who developed beyond expecations.

Greer. Greer has developed, improved, and turned into a capable, solid BIG player. He's not a star or even a starter, but he's come a long way and if Boo went down, I would be more than OK with him running the show. In fact, if CC wanted to mix things up and have Greer start at PG just to see what would happen, I'm OK with that too.

 

[Sec.112]

... the measure of player development is not whether a kid turns out to be a good player, as much as it is seeing a kid develop beyond what was normal to expect from him ...

Lindsey was kind of a win. Beyond those two, I'm not sure about anyone who, IMO, was a clear player who developed beyond expecations.

I like the Lindsey example because I'd argue that he didn't develop as much as he should have. But I share your idea that it was a "kind of" loss.

So if you guys really want to play the Collins development game, I'd suggest the Lindsey Line. Did that player develop better than the potential of Lindsey?

Also, I think recruiting rankings play a bit of a part in the Collins development game. Did he dig up a top-150 or 200 and turn him into a reasonable B10 starter?

With those idea in mind, I think you can throw these guys in as development successes: Pardon, Greer as well as board darlings Young and Lumpkin. Yes, Lumpkin was with Collins three years. And to get anything out of his limited ability is a success.

I'll let you guys argue whether Olah, Buie and Law were development successes.

Bombs? Falzon, Benson, Kopp and Beran. I might also put Nance in the list because it took them so long to drag it out. I might put Gaines in this list also. I don't think he had much more than he started with.

And if you want to kill Buie and say he's a bomb, then I think you have to do the same with Demps. So many of the same issues.

But in the end, look at what we're talking about ... a lot of nothing compared to the rest of the B10. That's the problem.

However, the original statement was a comparison to past NU talent - still a low bar. If you want to discuss whether it's better than Carmody, have a great time. The idea that the program is comparable to Carmody is THE problem.

I don't think NU will be where anyone wants them to be until there is unquestionably no comparison to the Carmody and Collins eras. Until then, we're shoveling the same shit

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

So why is saying talent needs to improve an invalid reason to explain losses? It’s not like I just pulled it out of my ass after the PSU loss. I have been on this bandwagon for the entire duration of the current group. It’s not that there aren’t B1G players, it’s that they lack the player that can take over and stop runs and consistently get the critical basket at the critical time. The Alpha dog. You don’t need to be John Wooden to see that.

PPD, I was just responding to peatymeanis who declared that talent is reflected in your results and conference record.

I'm just saying it is talent plus coaching.

 

[DaCat]

And yet for all the “top tier” talent he’s brought in the best players in the last 25 years are Shurna and Crawford. I don’t think it’s pure talent that got us to the tourney.

Good observation, you can add Coble and even Thompson to the list. This is ironically true but sadly Carmody never could get the depth he needed.

 

[peatymeanis]

Good observation, you can add Coble and even Thompson to the list. This is ironically true but sadly Carmody never could get the depth he needed.

Has Collins even had a player that is better than Vukusic? Hell, Mo Hachad would be one of Collins best players. Carmody had some good players, but as you said no depth. Also bad luck at the wrong time. I firmly believe if Coble didn’t quit the team, we would have gone to the dance that year.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I believe people get a bit caught up in associating a good player with good development. And, while it is very hard to evaluate, the measure of player development is not whether a kid turns out to be a good player, as much as it is seeing a kid develop beyond what was normal to expect from him. In other words, if a kid would develop into a decent player with any coach, that does not make him a success in development.

For me Pardon was a huge win. Lindsey was kind of a win. Beyond those two, I'm not sure about anyone who, IMO, was a clear player who developed beyond expecations.

I think Greer is better than most of us thought he would be. Also, I would add Young as a player that when I first saw him didn’t think he would have the impact that he has. Berry has definitely gotten better, but maybe he fits your criteria of being about what you would expect. He’s still young.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Don't sleep on Simmons. I think folks are mentioning Roper more as he looks a bit more polished in the way he moves and shoots. Simmons looks a bit more awkward and has a bit of a funky looking shot. There's a good chance Simmons will be a better player than Roper. I can't possibly have any confidence on Barnhizer, but Simmons gives me confidence he will be solid.

Yes, tough for most Freshman to make an impact. Typically top 50 types. I used Roper because of the PG discussion.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I like the Lindsey example because I'd argue that he didn't develop as much as he should have. But I share your idea that it was a "kind of" loss.

So if you guys really want to play the Collins development game, I'd suggest the Lindsey Line. Did that player develop better than the potential of Lindsey?

Also, I think recruiting rankings play a bit of a part in the Collins development game. Did he dig up a top-150 or 200 and turn him into a reasonable B10 starter?

With those idea in mind, I think you can throw these guys in as development successes: Pardon, Greer as well as board darlings Young and Lumpkin. Yes, Lumpkin was with Collins three years. And to get anything out of his limited ability is a success.

I'll let you guys argue whether Olah, Buie and Law were development successes.

Bombs? Falzon, Benson, Kopp and Beran. I might also put Nance in the list because it took them so long to drag it out. I might put Gaines in this list also. I don't think he had much more than he started with.

And if you want to kill Buie and say he's a bomb, then I think you have to do the same with Demps. So many of the same issues.

But in the end, look at what we're talking about ... a lot of nothing compared to the rest of the B10. That's the problem.

However, the original statement was a comparison to past NU talent - still a low bar. If you want to discuss whether it's better than Carmody, have a great time. The idea that the program is comparable to Carmody is THE problem.

I don't think NU will be where anyone wants them to be until there is unquestionably no comparison to the Carmody and Collins eras. Until then, we're shoveling the same shit

Development "normally" means a guy comes into the program, plays some minutes off the bench as a freshman , then steps forward in his sophomore and junior seasons, maybe even his senior season.

Collins has this weird habit of giving some "favored" freshmen significant minutes, when most of them are obviously adjusting to playing in Division 1.

If You look at that 2014-15 team, the talent on that roster is significant(for NU).
Seniors Jershon Cobb and Dave Sobolewski
Juniors Tre Demps and Alex Olah
Sophomores Sanjay Lumpkin and Nathan Taphorn
Freshmen Vic Law, Scottie Lindsey, Bryant McIntosh and Gavin Skelly

We went 15-17 overall, 6-12 in the Big Ten, with a 10 game losing streak, which included consecutive losses by 2 points, 2 points and 1 point. Maybe the freshmen weren't ready, but they sure were playing.

The next year our roster was arguably better despite losing Vic Law to injury...
Seniors Tre Demps and Alex Olah and ACC transfer Joey van Zegeren
Juniors Nate Taphorn and Sanjay Lumpkin
Sophomores Scottie Lindsey, Bryant McIntosh and Gavin Skelly
Freshmen Dererk Pardon, Aaron Falzon

Coach Collins "saw something" in Falzon and started him in 29 games, playing him 24.5 minutes a game, fewer than only Demps and McIntosh. He was probably the worst player in the rotation and he was STARTING. His FG% was lowest of the 10 guys in the rotation. His defense was soft. Sound vaguely familiar?

Somehow with all that talent, we only finished 8-10 in the Big Ten and did not get invited to the NIT, despite our 20-12 record overall.

It wasn't until the next season, when Vic Law returned and Falzon got injured, that the pieces simply fell into place. For one season.

The next year we lost Taphorn and Lumpkin, both effective players, and replaced them with Anthony Gaines who played 19 "below average" mpg as a freshman and the returning, ineffective Aaron Falzon, who played 16 mpg. Sophomore guard Isiah Brown regressed from 15 mpg to 10 mpg. Sophomore Jordan Ash played about 10 mpg. The team struggled to a 15-17 (6-12) record.

In 2018-19 we essentially had no guards and Miller Kopp played 17 mpg as a freshman. 13-19, 4-16 in the Big Ten.

In 2019-2020 Ryan Young, Robbie Beran and Boo Buie played heavy minutes in their first seasons. Young started all 31 games, playing 26 mpg. Pete Nance improved somewhat as a sophomore and Pat Spencer played 29 mpg as a grad transfer. 8-23 overall, 3-17 in the Big Ten. 12 straight losses.

Last year, Ryan Young lost his starting job and saw his minutes cut despite playing better than he did the year before. Sophomore Robbie Beran became a starter and saw increased minutes despite playing worse than he had as a freshman. Nance improved somewhat, Buie improved slightly, Kopp declined slightly. Freshman Ty Berry contributed 15 decent mpg. The erratic, athletic transfer Chase Audige struggled at times while playing "shooting guard" and was never used at the 3 position (small forward) because Miller Kopp commanded 32 mpg. Now Audige is primarily playing small forward and seems better at that position than Kopp was. Senior Anthony Gaines played the same subpar basketball as he did as a freshman, but was on the court 21 minutes per game. Because of these oddities we finished 6-13 in Big Ten games, losing 13 straight.

 

[peatymeanis]

The next year our roster was arguably better despite losing Vic Law to injury...
Seniors Tre Demps and Alex Olah and ACC transfer Joey van Zegeren
Juniors Nate Taphorn and Sanjay Lumpkin
Sophomores Scottie Lindsey, Bryant McIntosh and Gavin Skelly
Freshmen Dererk Pardon, Aaron Falzon

Coach Collins "saw something" in Falzon and started him in 29 games, playing him 24.5 minutes a game, fewer than only Demps and McIntosh. He was probably the worst player in the rotation and he was STARTING. His FG% was lowest of the 10 guys in the rotation. His defense was soft. Sound vaguely familiar?

Don't forget Pardon was redshirted until an injury to Olah forced him into the rotation, where he turned out to be one of our best players as a freshman. Why was he on the bench while Falzon got major minutes from the start? Only Collins knows. It does seem that there is a pattern where Collins falls in love with lanky wing position shooters who aren't actually very good at shooting or defending.

 

[Mister G]

Are you a NU grad? I’m surprised your reading comprehension is so poor. Let me break it down for you so that even an Illini grad could understand.

- Lathon was heavily targeted by Collins and staff, his verbal was heralded as a huge recruiting win.
- Through Lathon’s own actions, and none of Collins’, he didn’t ever become a NU player
- On top of his personal failings, Lathon seems to be a terrible player as well

Therefore, we have yet another example of Collins wasting recruiting time and energy on a player that is both a bad basketball player and someone with serious conduct issues. Does that strike you as an example of Collins recruiting prowess? Or is it an example of the opposite?

Hope that helps.

Some of my best employees are Northwestern graduates.

 

[EagerFan]

Those seem to me to be attributes you'd expect a head coach making in excess of $3 million a year to bring, no?

I don't follow the coachasphere, can you tell me how common it is to have a head coach that excels at every aspect of coaching? We should definitely look at hiring one of those perfect coaches next time around.

I also liked what Carmody brought to the team as coach. Both of them are incomplete coaches and need to supplement their deficiencies with assistants that excel where they lack.

Recruiting and excitement? According to who?

According to the guys he's recruited who would never have signed on to NU in the past. I haven't read down the rest of the thread yet, but I assume people can recognize that his recruits are generally superior to recruits of prior coaches, baring a handful of "superstars" (at least in the NU pantheon).

He motivated them, he signed them, now he needs assistants to develop them and run the in-game brilliance, because he isn't getting that done which leads to the terrible results we've been seeing for the past few years.

 

[EagerFan]

Don't sleep on Simmons. I think folks are mentioning Roper more as he looks a bit more polished in the way he moves and shoots. Simmons looks a bit more awkward and has a bit of a funky looking shot. There's a good chance Simmons will be a better player than Roper. I can't possibly have any confidence on Barnhizer, but Simmons gives me confidence he will be solid.

It's been a few years, but something about the way he plays and moves reminds me of Hachad - especially in the underweight and twitchy stuff. I have high hopes for his junior year, if he stays that long.

 

[peatymeanis]

I assume people can recognize that his recruits are generally superior to recruits of prior coaches

Superior in what sense? At winning basketball games in the B10? That hasn’t been proven out in the results. At personal accolades? Carmody had more all conference first and second teamers.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

2021 Casey Simmons, Julian Roper, Brooks Barnhizer. - Basically 3 shooting guards / small forwards
2020 Ty Berry, Matt Nicholson - A talented guard and a big post player that he won't use.
2019 Robbie Beran, Boo Buie, Jared Jones - An underachiever, a Big Ten guard and a subpar forward.
2018 Pete Nance, Ryan Young, Ryan Greer, Miller Kopp - Good group. One gave up, 2 are being misused.
2017 Anthony Gaines - Plenty of playing time. Never a Big Ten caliber player.
2016 Rapolas Ivanauskas, Isiah Brown, Barret Benson - Rap had talent. but all 3 left the program.
2015 Dererk Pardon, Aaron Falzon, Jordan Ash - One diamond, one 4 star bust, one not good.
2014 Vic Law, Bryant McIntosh, Scottie Lindsey, Gavin Skelly - only Law was "rated" but great class.

2016 and 2017 were really bad. We paid the price.
The last 4 classes have been okay to good.

 

[peatymeanis]

2021 Casey Simmons, Julian Roper, Brooks Barnhizer. - Basically 3 shooting guards / small forwards
2020 Ty Berry, Matt Nicholson - A talented guard and a big post player that he won't use.
2019 Robbie Beran, Boo Buie, Jared Jones - An underachiever, a Big Ten guard and a subpar forward.
2018 Pete Nance, Ryan Young, Ryan Greer, Miller Kopp - Good group. One gave up, 2 are being misused.
2017 Anthony Gaines - Plenty of playing time. Never a Big Ten caliber player.
2016 Rapolas Ivanauskas, Isiah Brown, Barret Benson - Rap had talent. but all 3 left the program.
2015 Dererk Pardon, Aaron Falzon, Jordan Ash - One diamond, one 4 star bust, one not good.
2014 Vic Law, Bryant McIntosh, Scottie Lindsey, Gavin Skelly - only Law was "rated" but great class.

2016 and 2017 were really bad. We paid the price.
The last 4 classes have been okay to good.

How do we reconcile 4 straight ‘ok to good’ recruiting classes with the results they’ve had?

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

How do we reconcile 4 straight ‘ok to good’ recruiting classes with the results they’ve had?

Well, this year's class can't be expected to do much. Too early to tell.
The 2018 recruiting class is obviously the best of the 4. But Collins is just killing Ryan Young, for reasons I will never understand.

With the exception of Jared Jones, every guy we've recruited in the last 4 years seems capable of playing on an average Power 5 team.

Maybe I set the bar a little low.

The overall record and lack of development is mainly on the coach.

 

[NJCat]

How do we reconcile 4 straight ‘ok to good’ recruiting classes with the results they’ve had?

Lousy coaching?

 

[NUCat320]

Lousy coaching?

Excellent post.