You're a good man (or woman)! I drive over an hour to get there. But the vast majority of folks aren't up for taking the El or battling Chicago traffic to Evanston at rush hour. It's hard to get to a 6:00 p.m. or 7:00 p.m. game from downtown Chicago. Metra is actually a really good option at that time of day.
The new W-R - Evanston docs
- Thread starter rwhitney014
- Start date
Thanks for the insight, Jonny2. It's a comparison I've never seen. In that context, someone might be able to twist my arm to dig the low capacity. However, 6800 is still awfully low in this group.
A longer look into this group at the mediocre teams in major metropolitan areas shows these attendance averages in 2016:
Boston College - 3411
Georgia Tech - 5831
SMU - 6907
NU - 6913
I just don't think you're leaving yourself a lot of wiggle room. I'd be able to live with 1500 empty rafter seats in a mediocre season if you can fill them in strong years.
And from the artist's rendition of the interior, those empty seats will literally be in the rafters!
When I met with my rep a few weeks ago he said capacity was dropping down only a few hundred (7500-7600).
I don't know what's the big deal of having a reasonable % of empty seats. If you want to have enough seats for the big games (especially during good seasons) you will have plenty of empty seats during "smallish" games (especially during not so good seasons). Sort of like a road that can handle rush-hour traffic will look empty during non-peak periods (which is fine).
An arena may also be designed in such a way that certain areas (say upper sections) are easily closed when not needed, so that the public seats in a reduced portion of the arena when attendance is not so large. This helps create the illusion of a larger crowd.
At the end of the day, having an average attendance of 8K in a 10K arena is better than an average of 5K in a 5K arena (always sold out). The total number of attendees is what counts (with/without empty seats).
See also THIS thread.
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30,000 would be great. It would bring back the $5 ticket and a few "bring a kid to the game" freebies. Im in!
Its all about the money. NU gains tighter costing that will bring ticket prices up. My guess is a yearly fee built in, then about $400 for season tix.
Lower bowl fee will probably start at $1,200. So each seat would end up costing around $1,500 in the lower.
That does seem too high though since there are usually only 6 or so marquee games.
Location is also telling. Nu wanted to be close to campus. Im not sure ordinances would have allowed an attendance expansion without permit problems. The secondary fanbase is annoyed at the inconvenience of Central but i see the school's reasoning. Creighton built a real nice arena downtown, which allows things to do after the game.
Very impressed with what appear to be open concourses where the court is visible from the mid level concession/concourse area. Just a tweak better bathrooms, mostly for handicap and what appears to be an additional elevator. Maybe the restrooms will have more stalls/urinals, dunno but hard to tell from the drawings.
Prolly be priced out of my courtside so if anyone wants to split half a season, lemme know.
As it is there is a capacity reduction from 8117 down to 6800. I doubt keeping the previous capacity would have posed a permit problem. FWIW, the initial capacity was even bigger, 9,500!
I enjoyed looking at the plans. Here are my quick thoughts:
1. It looks like they are going maintain the original footprint of the building, except in the corners, where it seems to extend out beyond the current dimensions. These corners seem to be where the stairwells will go.
2. It looks like there are going to be three levels of concourses, with bathrooms on each level.
3. From the drawings and the rendering, it looks like the lower bowl will have much greater capacity than it currently does, while the upper bowl looks like it will have lower capacity. Also, the seating angles looks steeper.
4. I have to admit that they are trying to cram a lot into the existing footprint. I would have preferred winging out the sides of the building on the second level to allow for much more spacious concourses, while keeping the south facing of the building the same. However, I don't mind a cozy stadium, as long as the seats are a little wider, cushioned, and have more legroom.
1. It looks like they are going maintain the original footprint of the building, except in the corners, where it seems to extend out beyond the current dimensions. These corners seem to be where the stairwells will go.
2. It looks like there are going to be three levels of concourses, with bathrooms on each level.
3. From the drawings and the rendering, it looks like the lower bowl will have much greater capacity than it currently does, while the upper bowl looks like it will have lower capacity. Also, the seating angles looks steeper.
4. I have to admit that they are trying to cram a lot into the existing footprint. I would have preferred winging out the sides of the building on the second level to allow for much more spacious concourses, while keeping the south facing of the building the same. However, I don't mind a cozy stadium, as long as the seats are a little wider, cushioned, and have more legroom.
He's just being contrary to stimulate conversation.
Any project with a finite budget has constraints......
1) Reuse the existing building footprint.
.
Isn't the project limited on at least three sides....road to the west, Dyche Stadium to the south and the new baseball facility to the north.
I'm a little stunned at how nice the design is. I take the Central street train so I've been looking at the building. Kept thinking in regards to the roof, can't make a silk purse out of that....but they have.
The exterior is very nice.
(note to self.....go to football board soon and give update on the plantings around the West Lot....they love that and are anxious to hear how the service berries and prairie grasses survived the winter)
Actually the immediate west is the no longer needed FB practice facility and weight room and to the east is the Burton offices. Using those spaces and possibly relocating the softball field would gave lots of room for expansion or building a brand new W-R. The BB practice court could be incorporated in a new building, located where the softball field now sits or incorporated into the new place by the lake. I'm afraid that having a Power 5 program play in a arena the seats close to some high school gyms will have a negative effect on recruiting, with other programs using our small gym against us.
Trienens Hall is going to be repurposed into a state-of-the-art basketball practice facility:
http://www.supportthecats.com/news/trienens-performance-center.html
Unlike some others, I am super excited about the facelift and I think we'll have awesome facility to play in after it.
I have one beef though. Page 20. All of the NU players are white. WTF is up with that? Another beef. The guy with the ball is totally missing the fact that our 5 is wide open underneath the basket. Said 5 isn't even calling for it. Hell, if the 5 wasn't wide open, the wing on the far side of the court has an easy cut to the basket as well (and not cutting). But, that SOB is dribbling with his back to the basket seeing none of that.
That's no CCC coached team. Did they take a shot from the 80's or something?
Welsh Ryan is a face lift like Soldiers' Field was a paint job.
I know , I've read that but I still think it's a waste of valuable land. NU needed to build or re-build an arena the matches those of other conference programs. as well as N.D. and DePaul, not like the small Loyola facility. Could never understand why a basketball practice facility was not included in the new football building. The football players and some others get to practice and condition on campus, while the basketball players must still trek over to the Central St. complex in the middle of the winter.
BTW, if the new WR arena looks like a HS gym, then what would you describe this as? Looks A LOT like WR actually, so I wouldn't be surprised if the reason that we didn't knock things down and build something new was because Chris Collins WANTED it this way.
Or how about this one (capacity 6,500). Didn't seem to hurt the recruiting that made their run to the National Championship and a #1 ranking this year possible.
The Kennel (Capacity 6,000). Yet, they can recruit players that enable to earn a #1 ranking (earlier in the year). Side note - best home winning percentage in all of college basketball (93%)
Our new arena is going to be awesome. Those who bitch about it have no idea what they are talking about.
Or how about this one (capacity 6,500). Didn't seem to hurt the recruiting that made their run to the National Championship and a #1 ranking this year possible.
The Kennel (Capacity 6,000). Yet, they can recruit players that enable to earn a #1 ranking (earlier in the year). Side note - best home winning percentage in all of college basketball (93%)
Our new arena is going to be awesome. Those who bitch about it have no idea what they are talking about.
1) It pays to be the program that is the "engine of the Athletic Department" as Jim Phillips often puts it.
2) According to the final plans submitted to the City of Evanston made available on this thread from the football board, there will indeed be three basketball courts in the lower level of the Lakefront Complex (go to page 6 of 90 on the PDF). It appears that they will be open from the second level with an elevated running track. While the Central Street complex will likely remain the basketball programs' main operational hub and practice area, I wouldn't be surprised if they use those courts on occasion. From what I understand, that arrangement is similar to how the team occasionally practices at the existing SPAC.
BTW, if the new WR arena looks like a HS gym, then what would you describe this as? Looks A LOT like WR actually, so I wouldn't be surprised if the reason that we didn't knock things down and build something new was because Chris Collins WANTED it this way.
Or how about this one (capacity 6,500). Didn't seem to hurt the recruiting that made their run to the National Championship and a #1 ranking this year possible.
The Kennel (Capacity 6,000). Yet, they can recruit players that enable to earn a #1 ranking (earlier in the year). Side note - best home winning percentage in all of college basketball (93%)
Our new arena is going to be awesome. Those who bitch about it have no idea what they are talking about.
Exactly. You nailed it.
The athletics shuttle from the Plex to Central St. is a hell of a lot easier than walking over to SPAC. For the upperclassmen who largely live off campus, Central is about the same distance.
Which NEW arena? The problem is that they are spending almost as much renovating a 64-y.o. building which will only have 6800 seats as a BRAND NEW arena would cost. See the other thread. Using the cost of the DePaul arena as guide, a brand new 7,000-seat arena would cost only $120MM (do the math). And they are going to spend $110MM renovating a 64-y.o. building which as hard as they may try will never come close to a BRAND NEW arena.
Furthermore, DePaul only paid a meager $70MM for their arena (and got more than $20MM for naming rights) because they got public funding for the difference. With the $110MM NU has plus some help it could have had a decent-capacity brand new arena without spending a cent more.
Just the construction of the DePaul arena is $175 million which does not include the land or the architecture and planning.
Where is your source? The sources I have seen say $173MM is the TOTAL COST, of which DP contributed a TOTAL of $70MM (and got back $20+ MM for naming rights over 15 years).
Land presumably wouldn't be a problem for NU, anyhow, since they do have the land already. As indicated already, any small deficit could potentially be made up by taking parking space, to be made up possibly with underground parking. That would make the total cost of NU's facility even closer to DP's (they did have to buy the land).
Here is the exact part of the document from the city of Evanston that indicates that the capacity of the renovated arena will be only 6800 seats (down from current 8,117)
Especially when the B1G team is ALREADY frequently selling out an 8,117 arena (and otherwise filling it to 90+%) and seems to be experiencing an upward trend (both on-court performance and attendance). 8K is 80% of a 10K arena. Clearly, the team is not too far from selling out a 10K-arena, and should easily do it as it keeps improving.
I suggest many of you guys just take a deep breath and put some things in perspective. NU has made huge commitments to the whole athletic department, especially football and basketball. We have (arguably) the best AD in the nation. Do you really think that he hasn't thought of all these things you are bringing up? Do you really think that your design skills and your marketing acumen are superior to the architects on this project and the people who brought you "The Foundation" and "It's Time"? Do you think with all the effort that goes into fund raising that Dr. Jim is not trying to get the biggest bang for the buck?
Let's all celebrate our success and look forward to a wonderful home court advantage in 18 months! Go 'Cats!
Let's all celebrate our success and look forward to a wonderful home court advantage in 18 months! Go 'Cats!
So, your point is simply that JP and his team cannot possibly make a mistake, right? They always do whatever is "optimal", regardless of any evidence suggesting the contrary, right?
I am sorry but you are wrong. Anyone and everyone can make mistakes. Some do it more often than others, but ultimately no human being is inmune to making mistakes. If there is evidence that suggests a decision that affects Northwestern is erroneous, it is important that the evidence be brought up and discussed. Perhaps the decision can be reversed or modified. If nothing else, once the mistakes are clearly identified, then similar errors can be avoided in the future.
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Let's see......Jim Phillips......Morty Shapiro......the Board of Trustees of the University......Pat Ryan......other lead donors.....all made a massive blunder as STATED ELSEWHERE on a decision to spend $110 Million to build an undersized 6,800 seat rehab rather than a brand, spanking new 10,000 seat palace.......and you think that evidence brought up on a Rival message board might reverse the decision?
Did Dr. Phillips reply to your email yet?
Facilities will be built right into the new purple seats. You'll never have to leave! And, now, if you don't stand up during a key moment in the game, we'll know why!
Well... that Depends.
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