thorsin and Oliver aren't good enough

[Turk]

Oh please! Siemian was injured most of his junior and senior years. You forgot Persa, a QB who we watched make great progress up until he was injured in 2010. Thorson has had great games and horrible games. What do you expect with a RSFreshman QB who has never run an offense like NU's before? Two steps forward, one step back. Sheesh, Basanez had a major setback his entire sophomore year. The media Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year turned out OK. Have faith! We're 8-2, despite the "Problem of Fitz".

The Problem of Fitz is magnified and revealed continuously. The thesis is that his loyalty isnt necessarily a virtue. This problem has been confirmed yet again as we refused to address the ol and wr coaching deficiences in the offseason. And its a vicious cycle as no bigtime OL or WR dare come here. The problem of Fitz isnt catastrophic as Fitz and other coaches have been able to carry the less productive coaches.

As far as develoment, McCal had an NFL qb in TS but could do virtually nothing with him.

lets stop th BS Glades, do you think McCall is a great OC? Yes or no? do you think cushing andspringer are great coaches? yes or no. cuz if you cant share your opinion and conclusively say yes, then you are just stirring the pot.

 

[Gladeskat]

For every well blocked run you show me where we seal the edges I could show you a well blocked run where we get push up front. Running the ball is an eleven man operation. Doing it well without any threat of a passing game is not possible without the oline doing their job. Having said that, I agree that Vitale and Dickerson have blocked well(check out Dickerson driving his guy 5 yards into the end zone on our 2nd TD yesterday) and our WRs are much better blockers than they are pass catchers.

No doubt. I said that we've improved. Our OL came alive in that final drive for a TD, getting great push up the middle. I noted that in the chat room (I was "Fran Zapp") at that time.

Did you see Indiana's OL manhandle Michigan? It was impressive.

 

[stpaulcat]

I would definitely like to see an open competition for the starting QB slot next year. I don't know if Aidan Smith is a wunderkind or not. I'd like to see the walkon TJ Green get a real shot as well.

When was the last time we had a QB this young starting? Who was at least reasonably as successful as CT is? Was it Baz?

For a young NU QB, I'm not disappointed, even though it is frustrating sometimes. I think he has tremendous potential upside. However, if he doesn't show improvement in passing by say mid-next year (which also presumes a corresponding improvement by the WR), I say give someone else a try. But in any case he should not be ordained next year's QB and should have to compete for it.

 

[Gladeskat]

The Problem of Fitz is magnified and revealed continuously. The thesis is that his loyalty isnt necessarily a virtue. This problem has been confirmed yet again as we refused to address the ol and wr coaching deficiences in the offseason. And its a vicious cycle as no bigtime OL or WR dare come here. The problem of Fitz isnt catastrophic as Fitz and other coaches have been able to carry the less productive coaches.

As far as develoment, McCal had an NFL qb in TS but could do virtually nothing with him.

lets stop th BS Glades, do you think McCall is a great OC? Yes or no? do you think cushing andspringer are great coaches? yes or no. cuz if you cant share your opinion and conclusively say yes, then you are just stirring the pot.

McCall...yes. Cushing...not enough info. Springer...not enough info. Regarding the latter coaches, it looks like talent is a problem to an unknown degree here.

Grammarly counts only 15 grammar and spelling errors in your post. Looks like you're making progress with the Problem of Turk.

 

[Cookie1966]

It's amazing how you've posted 33 times and 32 were negative things to say about someone on the team. I just read all 33 off your posts. The one that wasn't negative was "they were warned earlier in the game" which I'm guessing refers to the Nebraska sideline interference call. Which could still be negative but was useful information so I'll give it a pass.


So yeah, got it you're a troll

If you wanna except mediocre so be it. Guess your a homer
I don't except mediocre. Guess I'm a troll

 

[chariots]

Turk your thought is that a benching shows major changes in coaching evaluation. I don't think it implies that at all.

I'm trying to remember a freshman QB on any team who started from day 1 and wasn't benched at some point for at least a couple series. Rosen so far has gone without benching. But the other ten or so QBs that came to mind all were holding the clipboard at least once.

It isn't just poor performance that drives benching. Its trying to get their team to play optimally acknowledging what can hold back a young QB. Often the team needs to coach the QB back up. Sometimes its to get the right QB in for what they want to do next.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

I'm willing to amend my statement to an O Line that pass protects extremely poorly and WRs who truly struggle to get open and make plays.

Except that there is no evidence that NU's OL does a particularly bad job at pass protection. Per sacks allowed, NU is #64 of 125, giving up slightly over 2 sacks per game. The bottom team allows near 4. That isn't the only way to measure pass protection, but it is certainly a legit way, and it strongly suggests that NU's OL is OK. Not a strength, but not a weakness. Certainly not a valid explanation of why CT is ranked 109 of 115 in pass efficiency.
Blaming the WR is easy. But it's not so simple.
You seem to be assuming that the 108 QB's that are ranked ahead of CT, including many freshmen, all have WR's who get open more often, and drop passes less often than NU's. Fact is, most of us do not follow closely all the other teams, nor even the ones with FR QB's, to ascertain that NU's WR's do a significantly worse job than all the others. They probably do worse than some, of course. But if they are to be blamed for CT's near bottom rank, it must be that NU's WR's do significantly worse than nearly all the others. Easier said than proven.

 

[Cookie1966]

Funny how Cookie can't see poor separation and the drops that have occurred this year while implying Thorson is the next Mark Malone.

[Relax Steelers fans!!! Thorson is NOT the next Mark Malone.]

Actually receivers been pretty damn good last 2 games. No drops today and 1 drop game before

 

[Alaskawildkat]

McCall...yes. Cushing...not enough info. Springer...not enough info. Regarding the latter coaches, it looks like talent is a problem to an unknown degree here.

Grammarly counts only 15 grammar and spelling errors in your post. Looks like you're making progress with the Problem of Turk.

If you wanna except mediocre so be it. Guess your a homer
I don't except mediocre. Guess I'm a troll

I don't usually play the grammar game, but it is a bit ironic you posted that just after Glades threw the Dictionary book at Turk in the post just above yours.

 

[Gladeskat]

Actually receivers been pretty damn good last 2 games. No drops today and 1 drop game before

They had at least one drop yesterday if I recall correctly. I'll have to watch the game to verify that.

We're 8-2 right now...when can we expect your first positive post about the Cats? Or are your standards too high to ever find happiness following the 'Cats?

 

[pawildcat]

Funny how last year when there was a shit load of drops. It was all Trevor's fault. Now since we have the second coming of Marino it's all the receivers fault. Unreal

Huh? You must not have been reading this board much. People have been all over the receivers all year for drops.

 

[pawildcat]

No doubt. I said that we've improved. Our OL came alive in that final drive for a TD, getting great push up the middle. I noted that in the chat room (I was "Fran Zapp") at that time.

Did you see Indiana's OL manhandle Michigan? It was impressive.

This. I think our OL has improved, all things considered. But the Indiana line was knocking Harbaugh's boys 2-3 yards off the line, and that Howard is one hell of a running back. I'm not sure there's a better one in the league, including Elliott. It shows how truly awful the Hoosiers are on defense that they can be 0-6 in conference with that offense.

 

[shakes3858]

If you wanna except mediocre so be it. Guess your a homer
I don't except mediocre. Guess I'm a troll

8-2 mediocre? Nope 8-2 is great. But yeah, I don't need to go on the internet and point out missed plays or any imperfection the team has. I support the team on and off the internet. I'm cool if that makes me a homer. Guess you prefer being a sour puss if you're not a troll.

 

[catlitter]

I didn't say Thorson is not a good enough pocket passer. I said our offense just isn't really effective passing team right now.

 

[catlitter]

How would we know if Thorson is a good pocket passer? He bails out of the pocket with the slightest pressure.

 

[DaCat]

Thorson and other athletes sometimes need a little break to get them reset. I don't think it's a lack of intensity and desire at all, in fact in a lot of cases it is too much intensity. Seems his little breather helped him.

 

[Turk]

How would we know if Thorson is a good pocket passer? He bails out of the pocket with the slightest pressure.

im guessing the toughest thing for an oc to teach to a duel threat qb is to trust the pocket alot more than his legs. its going to be tff to break him of that. imo we could move the pocket for him if that makes him more comfortable and productive. he was killing most plays by bailing out on most passing plays when he rolled out to his right 100% of the time instead of stepping up or otherwise
he will need alot more experience to have a pocket presence. when passing the ball, he is much better in the pocket.

 

[Cookie1966]

8-2 mediocre? Nope 8-2 is great. But yeah, I don't need to go on the internet and point out missed plays or any imperfection the team has. I support the team on and off the internet. I'm cool if that makes me a homer. Guess you prefer being a sour puss if you're not a troll.

8 2 is great? Really you think Ohio st. Michigan Michigan st or Iowa think 8 2 is great? Nah
I guess since I don't think thorson is a good qb or mcall is a good oc I'm a troll
Make sure you let all the other posters no we will be considered trolls if we don't think the golden boy is the next Marino

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Actually receivers been pretty damn good last 2 games. No drops today and 1 drop game before

There's a whole lot more to playing receiver than not dropping the ball. In fact, that's more prerequisite than something that sets a WR apart.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

8 2 is great? Really you think Ohio st. Michigan Michigan st or Iowa think 8 2 is great? Nah
I guess since I don't think thorson is a good qb or mcall is a good oc I'm a troll
Make sure you let all the other posters no we will be considered trolls if we don't think the golden boy is the next Marino

Let me know when we have the same resources/advantages as those programs. The lakefront facility will be a step in the direction, but doesn't remove the academic hurdles.

 

[Gladeskat]

8 2 is great? Really you think Ohio st. Michigan Michigan st or Iowa think 8 2 is great? Nah
I guess since I don't think thorson is a good qb or mcall is a good oc I'm a troll
Make sure you let all the other posters no we will be considered trolls if we don't think the golden boy is the next Marino

"know"

[dumb troll]

 

[pawildcat]

8 2 is great? Really you think Ohio st. Michigan Michigan st or Iowa think 8 2 is great? Nah
I guess since I don't think thorson is a good qb or mcall is a good oc I'm a troll
Make sure you let all the other posters no we will be considered trolls if we don't think the golden boy is the next Marino

Who on this board ever said Thorson is the next Marino? I haven't seen a quarterback in college football this year who is the next Marino. Did you even see Marino play?

 

[EvanstonCat]

Let me know when we have the same resources/advantages as those programs. The lakefront facility will be a step in the direction, but doesn't remove the academic hurdles.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. Gary Barnett never thought this way. This is why some staff's are relegated to something less than greatness as their ceiling and others aim for and can achieve so much more...

 

[EvanstonCat]

When was we had a QB this young starting? Who was at least reasonably as successful as CT is? Was it Baz?

For a young NU QB, I'm not disappointed, even though it is frustrating sometimes. I think he has tremendous potential upside. However, if he doesn't show improvement in passing by say mid-next year (which also presumes a corresponding improvement by the WR), I say give someone else a try. But in any case he should not be ordained next year's QB and should have to compete for it.

Well, that's basically what I'm saying. I'm not exactly disappointed. I'm not even saying Thorson doesn't have the potential to be great and I recognize his upside. Mike Kafka showed me that you can't judge ceilings on a redshirt freshman or any other year.

I'm just saying he has done nothing to entrench himself as a 4 year starter. If Aidan Smith is better or TJ Green for that matter, I hope they are given a chance to show it and win the job. If Thorson is our QB next year, I hope it is because he has earned it and is our best. Not because he is handed it as an incumbent. I would say that for anyone, but in Thorson's case, he has done absolutely nothing this year to justify job safety for next year.

 

[EvanstonCat]

There's a whole lot more to playing receiver than not dropping the ball. In fact, that's more prerequisite than something that sets a WR apart.

Unfortunately, our WR coach doesn't have his unit even making this basic requirement much less everything else that goes with being a good WR.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Excuses, excuses, excuses. Gary Barnett never thought this way. This is why some staff's are relegated to something less than greatness as their ceiling and others aim for and can achieve so much more...

You're turning into Turk, rolling out pretty much the same post every time I try to be realistic about what our program faces.

Barnett also posted a winless conference record before high-failing it to Boulder, so let's not make him out to be Lombardi.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Unfortunately, our WR coach doesn't have his unit even making this basic requirement much less everything else that goes with being a good WR.

I agree with you. Regardless of our record to finish out the year, Springer shouldn't feel very comfortable.

 

[Smokejumper]

How would we know if Thorson is a good pocket passer? He bails out of the pocket with the slightest pressure.

I'll admit it is very frustrating to see CT bail at the slightest pressure - usually a few steps to his right. Seems like every time this happens, it results in his being outside the right tackle where the DE is able to put immediate pressure and pursuit to disrupt the play 100%. The result is always either a sprint for no gain or a sprint and a throw away pass out of bounds. If he would just hang a bit more in the pocket - maybe even step up instead of outside, there would be time for the play to develop. He also usually never sees a wide open JJ for the simple short yardage gainer - or Vault as a release valve when he pops wide out of the backfield.

I realize it is easy for me to call it from my couch without risk of getting crushed but a 300 DE or DT, but it is still frustrating seeing the same thing play out every time...

 

[Turk]

You're turning into Turk, rolling out pretty much the same post every time I try to be realistic about what our program faces.

Barnett also posted a winless conference record before high-failing it to Boulder, so let's not make him out to be Lombardi.

you have no idea about reality and think you are an expert because you had a very very minor role in the program a long time ago.
Your just a shill who is bipolar and offers a ridiculous opinion much like your unwarrented post during the game last week.

 

[shakes3858]

8 2 is great? Really you think Ohio st. Michigan Michigan st or Iowa think 8 2 is great? Nah
I guess since I don't think thorson is a good qb or mcall is a good oc I'm a troll
Make sure you let all the other posters no we will be considered trolls if we don't think the golden boy is the next Marino

Find a Michigan fan and ask them if they're happy being 8-2 so far this year? The answer is yes.... I just did btw. Ask an Iowa fan if they would've been happy being 8-2 through 10 games this year before the beginning year. They would've been happy. Surely, they'll take 10-0. Ohio State and Michigan would not as both had National Title dreams going into to the season. Did you really have National Title dreams with a redshirt freshman QB coming off of 2 5-7 seasons? This has been a straight up masterful coaching job by Fitz, McCall and Hank.

 

[Smokejumper]

Unfortunately, our WR coach doesn't have his unit even making this basic requirement much less everything else that goes with being a good WR.

There have been several plays where it has seemed like our receivers are playing patty-cake with the DB until the ball carrier comes into the area. Then the defensive player seems to easily disengage and makes a tackle.

I realize the WR doesn't want to get called for a hold, but more often than not it seems whatever they are doing is ineffective and results in not taking the defensive back out of the play or hampering the DB's ability to make the tackle...

 

[gocatsgo2003]

you have no idea about reality and think you are an expert because you had a very very minor role in the program a long time ago.
Your just a shill who is bipolar and offers a ridiculous opinion much like your unwarrented post during the game last week.

And you're a troll who likes to do his best to get under my skin. Pot, meet Kettle.

 

[shakes3858]

And you're a troll who likes to do his best to get under my skin. Pot, meet Kettle.

Psst.... Now that you figured that out, just stop responding. The ignore feature works well.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Psst.... Now that you figured that out, just stop responding. The ignore feature works well.

I do my best, but sometimes the idiocy is just so strong I can't stand letting it go unchallenged (and accepted as legitimate by some around here).

 

[Turk]

Nah in a couple years the aiden smith will be starting qb

really? ill admit thatthe oliver/alviti/thorson competition was apick'em due to nobody stepping up but what makes you think that Smith will be ready? The most ready qb on the team is Green but with Thorsons potential it made good sense to give him a shot. i think thorson will b our starting qb until he gets banged up and our #2 goes in. And that will b Green. The kid is a football player with a good arm and a phenomenal knowledge of the game.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

I do my best, but sometimes the idiocy is just so strong I can't stand letting it go unchallenged (and accepted as legitimate by some around here).

really? ill admit thatthe oliver/alviti/thorson competition was apick'em due to nobody stepping up but what makes you think that Smith will be ready? The most ready qb on the team is Green but with Thorsons potential it made good sense to give him a shot. i think thorson will b our starting qb until he gets banged up and our #2 goes in. And that will b Green. The kid is a football player with a good arm and a phenomenal knowledge of the game.

See what I'm talking about, Shakes?

 

[Hungry Jack]

There is an egregiously ignorant straw man floating around these boards like a stale turd, propped up by a few posters with shallow thoughts. It is an argument that fans who are not willing to strongly criticize the coaching and player performance are willing to "accept mediocrity."

This argument represents a steep slippery slope to idiocy. The underlying premise of this argument is that posters, by some unexplained force, can impact the performance of the team through highly critical commentary here. Obviously, this is utterly bunk. The best you can do, as a fan, is take your singular allegiance elsewhere and hope that Fitz & Co might notice. This is unlikely.

If "accepting mediocrity" means continuing to support an underachieving team through buying tickets, watching BTN, posting here, etc., then those that exhibit this behavior are likely motivated by a variety of factors that have little to do with compromising competitive ideals. Alma mater, amateur athletics, social interaction, outdoor events, etc. are all factors in fans consuming college football. It's not about accepting mediocrity, rather it's about enjoying Northwestern Wildcat football, regardless of how blemished the outcomes may appear to some.

 

[Turk]

8 2 is great? Really you think Ohio st. Michigan Michigan st or Iowa think 8 2 is great? Nah
I guess since I don't think thorson is a good qb or mcall is a good oc I'm a troll
Make sure you let all the other posters no we will be considered trolls if we don't think the golden boy is the next Marino

why do you engage shakes? shakes is oneof the best fans we have but your post engages critical thought and thats a path that shakes doesnt cros. however, although i rarely agree with shakes, why shouldnt we think 8-2 is great in the context of the last two seasons? Anything north of 7 wins this year is an outstanding coaching job by Fitz.

 

[shakes3858]

See what I'm talking about, Shakes?

Let's try a breathing exercise. I want you to breath in while counting to 5, hold for 3, and breathe out for 7 all through your nose. When you decide not to waste time telling Turk he's a doofus for claiming knowledge about TJ Green who he's never seen throw a pass, you can breathe normally.

 

[shakes3858]

why do you engage shakes? shakes is oneof the best fans we have but your post engages critical thought and thats a path that shakes doesnt cros. however, although i rarely agree with shakes, why shouldnt we think 8-2 is great in the context of the last two seasons? Anything north of 7 wins this year is an outstanding coaching job by Fitz.

You see GCG... the breathing exercise just worked.