We have the talent, but not the killer instinct

[freewillie07]

I'm not sure how to find the latter. I think that was part of the reason Collins got so fired up toward the end of the first half. It felt like the team was content to muddle through and stick close, when the opportunity was right there to take a big lead.

It shouldn't be enough for the guys to feel good about hanging tough with the rest of the Big Ten. They should want to step out onto the floor and crush the competition. I just don't see that killer instinct enough, except for occasionally Audige. It wouldn't be so bad to see some players get MAD every once in a while.

In late-game situations in particular, Collins and his staff need to do something to help the guys out. They are talented, but not so much so above and beyond the rest of the conference that they can win hero ball down the stretch. Prime example of that is Boo's offensive foul late in the game.

 

[DaCat]

As was discussed in the game thread, Collins tried to go to iso offense with his lead guard, who failed to score on 3 critical possessions down the stretch with under 5 minutes left in the game, forcing up 2 poor shots and called for an offensive foul. We were up two at 3:28 after Audige made his only basket, and our guys went scoreless the rest of the way until Buie's meaningless 3 at the buzzer. Rinse, repeat, and lose.

 

[NUCat320]

I would suggest Boo has the killer instinct, but not the talent to back it up.

 

[Hungry Jack]

I try to avoid armchair psychology in these assessments. We just don’t have guys who can make those key shots.

 

[JournCat]

I would suggest Boo has the killer instinct, but not the talent to back it up.

There is plenty of instinct, fight, moxie, etc. What’s missing is talent. Nance was the only player down the stretch who had a good chance to score. He missed a good shot. It was hard to feel confident about basically anyone else.

 

[Medill '03]

I try to avoid armchair psychology in these assessments. We just don’t have guys who can make those key shots.

We have good players who were not more highly recruited for a reason. Not necessarily their fault.

 

[MC_Cat]

There is plenty of instinct, fight, moxie, etc. What’s missing is talent. Nance was the only player down the stretch who had a good chance to score. He missed a good shot. It was hard to feel confident about basically anyone else.

Would've liked him to shoot more at the end. He missed one and then quit shooting.

 

[NUCatVet]

Who would you rather with the game on the line: Brad Davison who has killed us several times or Boo Buie who never delivers with the game on the line? Easy choice. We don’t have anyone with a killer instinct. CC had the killer instinct as a player, but has yet to find recruits who have it.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I'm not sure how to find the latter. I think that was part of the reason Collins got so fired up toward the end of the first half. It felt like the team was content to muddle through and stick close, when the opportunity was right there to take a big lead.

It shouldn't be enough for the guys to feel good about hanging tough with the rest of the Big Ten. They should want to step out onto the floor and crush the competition. I just don't see that killer instinct enough, except for occasionally Audige. It wouldn't be so bad to see some players get MAD every once in a while.

In late-game situations in particular, Collins and his staff need to do something to help the guys out. They are talented, but not so much so above and beyond the rest of the conference that they can win hero ball down the stretch. Prime example of that is Boo's offensive foul late in the game.

He was screaming at Ryan Young. He made a weak handoff pass and was easily stolen. Gave away a possession.

 

[phatcat]

We have good players who were not more highly recruited for a reason. Not necessarily their fault.

But Collins recruiting is our best ever!! /s

 

[NUChicago]

Something is not working and Collins has had plenty of time. It's time to move on.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

He was screaming at Ryan Young. He made a weak handoff pass and was easily stolen. Gave away a possession.

He was definitely screaming at Young, but I thought Beran too. I'll have to re-watch.
Regardless, those guys responded by doing nothing right and getting benched.

 

[lunker35]

As was discussed in the game thread, Collins tried to go to iso offense with his lead guard, who failed to score on 3 critical possessions down the stretch with under 5 minutes left in the game, forcing up 2 poor shots and called for an offensive foul. We were up two at 3:28 after Audige made his only basket, and our guys went scoreless the rest of the way until Buie's meaningless 3 at the buzzer. Rinse, repeat, and lose.

Wasn’t exactly meaningless as it made us cover the spread and my Illini brother lost $ which I’m ok with.

 

[FeralFelidae]

We haven't had an elite PG since McIntosh. That's what you need to close out the close games. We've had guys who do some things well but I don't think we've had the complete package.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

He was definitely screaming at Young, but I thought Beran too. I'll have to re-watch.
Regardless, those guys responded by doing nothing right and getting benched.

Beran and Young did nothing before or after. It was a poor outing for both!

 

[Hungry Jack]

We haven't had an elite PG since McIntosh. That's what you need to close out the close games. We've had guys who do some things well but I don't think we've had the complete package.

BMac was a great player, but he didn’t exactly excel in those last possession isolation plays. He was best when he was facilitating with guys like Law. Pardon, and Lindsey.

 

[FeralFelidae]

BMac was a great player, but he didn’t exactly excel in those last possession isolation plays. He was best when he was facilitating with guys like Law. Pardon, and Lindsey.

That's what a PG is supposed to do, run our offense and find us the best shot. But I trusted BMac's floater if the clock was winding down over the "layups" that our current guys keep missing.

 

[MC_Cat]

Beran and Young did nothing before or after. It was a poor outing for both!

An o-fer for Young. I really like him but he was awful today.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

An o-fer for Young. I really like him but he was awful today.

Young got dominated by Cockburn last year. I like Young a lot too, just not against Edey and Cockburn.
To Collins credit, he figured that out after he screamed at him.

 

[PurpleFaze]

If Collins could figure it out the new Welsh Ryan is a great atmosphere for a game when the student section is packed.

 

[The Purple Knight]

I would suggest Boo has the killer instinct, but not the talent to back it up.

He has neither. He’s the guy you wanna be playing against with a minute left in the game.

 

[Mister G]

Buie has the ball skills and guts to be dangerous in late game situations. Use Nance as the screener and one of them is going to get an open look. If teams overhelp; you have shooters who can knock down shots. I’m an Illinois alum, and longtime NU season holder in both major sports. Your talent level is good enough to be a 500 team or better in the B10. I don’t know if it’s scheme, coaching or confidence but NU should be better.

 

[willycat]

Something is not working and Collins has had plenty of time. It's time to move on.

Yep, probably to the Ivy League or the MAC.

 

[willycat]

Buie has the ball skills and guts to be dangerous in late game situations. Use Nance as the screener and one of them is going to get an open look. If teams overhelp, your shooters who can knock down shots. I’m an Illinois alum, and longtime NU season holder in both major sports. Your talent level is good enough to be a 500 team or better in the B10. I don’t know if it’s scheme, coaching or confidence but NU should be better.

It's not as good as about ten other programs in the BIG.

 

[Mister G]

It's not as good as about ten other programs in the BIG.

Nance, Buie, Audige, Young, and Berry would play significant roles or start for 10 B10 teams.

 

[DaCat]

I don’t know if it’s scheme, coaching or confidence

Yes

 

[PurpleFaze]

Nance, Buie, Audige, Young, and Berry would play significant roles or start for 10 B10 teams.

Would agree with the first four. Berry needs to develop more but has the talent

I’m sure Illinois would love to have a young to spell Kofi vs Payne

 

[willycat]

Nance, Buie, Audige, Young, and Berry would play significant roles or start for 10 B10 teams.

maybe the first two you named but not the others

 

[PurpleFaze]

maybe the first two you named but not the others

I think all those names other than berry would be welcome rotation players at just about any big 10 school.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I think all those names other than berry would be welcome rotation players at just about any big 10 school.

Agree, they would be welcome rotational players.

 

[GatoLouco]

Nance would start for any team

Buie would start for at least 2/3, more if he showed the coach he could play with less of a scoring first mentality

Young would start for at least 1/2 the teams

Audige would start for a 1/3 of teams

Berry might start for 2-4 teams

As the OP said, all would play significant roles in any team. Maybe with the exception of Berry in some teams.

 

[SDakaGordie]

Nance would start for any team

Buie would start for at least 2/3, more if he showed the coach he could play with less of a scoring first mentality

Young would start for at least 1/2 the teams

Audige would start for a 1/3 of teams

Berry might start for 2-4 teams

As the OP said, all would play significant roles in any team. Maybe with the exception of Berry in some teams.

I think if you did this same exercise for every other team and averaged the ratios you suggest, you’d likely get an average ratio for NU that was in the bottom part of the ranked league ratios.

 

[PurpleFaze]

I think if you did this same exercise for every other team and averaged the ratios you suggest, you’d likely get an average ratio for NU that was in the bottom part of the ranked league ratios.

These guys other than Nance might be more off the bench than starter types but they would definitely have no problems finding big 10 homes and minutes

 

[Mister G]

I think if you did this same exercise for every other team and averaged the ratios you suggest, you’d likely get an average ratio for NU that was in the bottom part of the ranked league ratios.

Let’s use the Illini starting 5 for comparison purposes. Would Williams and Grandison be starters on any B10 team? Frazier and Kofi definitely, but Plummer was not a projected starter on this team. I think much what determines who plays is chemistry and culture. Talent isn’t always a predictor of success; NU has talent.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Let’s use the Illini starting 5 for comparison purposes. Would Williams and Grandison would be starters on any B10 team? Frazier and Kofi definitely, but Plummer was not a projected starter on this team. I think much what determines who plays is chemistry and culture. Talent isn’t always a predictor of success; NU has talent.

Yes, they would start for NU.

 

[SDakaGordie]

I stand by my conclusion, which you helped support. Illinois has two sure bet starters - that’s double NU’s ratio right off the bat. And their remaining players are easily just as good as ours, if not better. Talent is not always a predictor of success, to your point, but it’s still by far the dominant predictor.

 

[GatoLouco]

Yes, they would start for NU.

A nice armoire would start at the 4 for NU

 

[PurpleFaze]

A nice armoire would start at the 4 for NU

Illinois has been trying to upgrade the 4 for a few years. Williams ends up there because nobody else wants to claim the spot

 

[combes]

Let’s use the Illini starting 5 for comparison purposes. Would Williams and Grandison would be starters on any B10 team? Frazier and Kofi definitely, but Plummer was not a projected starter on this team. I think much what determines who plays is chemistry and culture. Talent isn’t always a predictor of success; NU has

Illinois has been trying to upgrade the 4 for a few years. Williams ends up there because nobody else wants to claim the spot

Grandison is 22-3 as a starter at the four against Big Ten competition. He was having a great year before covid break. At one point 15 games into the season, he was fourth in the country in offensive efficiency and shooting 52% from three.

He has struggled to recover fully from the virus. Hoping it’s soon.

So, no, Williams would not start for Illinois.

Nance is another story. He would be great at the stretch four beside Kofi. I’ve always liked Young. He would be a great backup for Kofi. I’m not sure why NU doesn’t start Young and Nance together in the front line.

I’m also excited to get Curbelo back. He changes everything in the offense with his ability to break down defenses with his ballhandling and passing. Illinois has no other guard with that ability.

NU is good. Tough to play against.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Grandison is 22-3 as a starter at the four against Big Ten competition. He was having a great year before covid break. At one point 15 games into the season, he was fourth in the country in offensive efficiency and shooting 52% from three.

He has struggled to recover fully from the virus. Hoping it’s soon.

So, no, Williams would not start for Illinois.

Nance is another story. He would be great at the stretch four beside Kofi. I’ve always liked Young. He would be a great backup for Kofi. I’m not sure why NU doesn’t start Young and Nance together in the front line.

I’m also excited to get Curbelo back. He changes everything in the offense with his ability to break down defenses with his ballhandling and passing. Illinois has no other guard with that ability.

NU is good. Tough to play against.

"I’m not sure why NU doesn’t start Young and Nance together in the front line."

This has been raised as a concern/question by almost every analyst who has broadcast an NU game this season.

However, the Young/Nance combo has not been as successful this season as it was last year. The only difference is that Kopp is gone and Roper is playing some of those minutes. I also think Collins played zone with those two on the court last year, but not so much this year.

Regardless, when Young and Nance are out there, the last few games it seems to me that Nance just floats to the perimeter, does almost no interior passing / cutting (which is one reason that pairing should work) and avoids crashing the offensive boards, backpedaling to the 3 point line when the ball goes inside and backpedaling more when a shot goes up.