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Would You Be Mad if Collins Left?

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7th Cir. Cat

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Jul 26, 2006
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I don't want to turn this into a thread about whether CC should keep his job because NU won't force him out after this year.

But if a good job opened up and CC decided on his own to go to a school with less academic restrictions and get a fresh start, would you be legitimately upset?

Given our current 1-9 record we will almost certainly finish in the BIG basement (10th or lower). That will mean that we've finished in the BIG basement in 6 out of his 7 years. The one year we didn't was glorious.

So how mad would you be if we had to get a new coach? Would you be mad because you think CC is a singular figure and all the intangibles (local guy, Duke pedigree, NBA dad) mean that this is the best we can do in terms of a hiring?

Not being able to get reputable coach is the one thing that would concern me because "even the Duke guy couldn't win in Evanston" would be a thing. I think our coach search would be even harder than when we hired Collins, but I think his coaching and development (probably not recruiting) could be replicated and replaced.
 
I'd wish him well. Would not be angry in the least. NU is a tough job and at some point I believe he will move to greener pastures.

As far as replacing him goes, NU now has facilities competitive with other major programs. There only has to be 1 talented coach at who wants a multi-million dollar salary in the B1G for NU to get a replacement. I suspect the applicant pool will not be small.
 
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7th Cir. Cat said:
I don't want to turn this into a thread about whether CC should keep his job because NU won't force him out after this year.

But if a good job opened up and CC decided on his own to go to a school with less academic restrictions and get a fresh start, would you be legitimately upset?

Given our current 1-9 record we will almost certainly finish in the BIG basement (10th or lower). That will mean that we've finished in the BIG basement in 6 out of his 7 years. The one year we didn't was glorious.

So how mad would you be if we had to get a new coach? Would you be mad because you think CC is a singular figure and all the intangibles (local guy, Duke pedigree, NBA dad) mean that this is the best we can do in terms of a hiring?

Not being able to get reputable coach is the one thing that would concern me because "even the Duke guy couldn't win in Evanston" would be a thing. I think our coach search would be even harder than when we hired Collins, but I think his coaching and development (probably not recruiting) could be replicated and replaced.
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Replacing him will be easier than hiring him, because the flow of money into the conference has increased considerably in the last seven years with the new TV deal. Money talks, and they won’t have a hard time finding a decent coach to take their money, regardless of the challenges and history associated with the gig.

Bigger question is who would hire Collins that would convince him to step down? Hard to imagine him voluntarily moving down to a lower level and a significantly lower salary (and additionally having to buy out his own contract on the way out). And it’s hard to imagine another Power 5 school taking a risk on a coach who is under .500 overall including buy games and 38 games below .500 in conference play. (I know there are inherent reasons that aren’t entirely his fault, but much of that losing is also of his own doing and those records make for tough optics if an AD was trying to sell his boosters on the hire.)
 
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It's crazy, if Coach K had retired the year we made the tournament, CC would have been on the short list for the Duke job.
 
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No, never mad. Coaches come and go. They certainly have the right to pursue happiness wherever that takes them. I've been disappointed in Collins and his staff in that I had hoped that after the NCAA barrier was broken, the program would at least be consistently competitive. I underestimated the institutional barriers to that. I also over-estimated Collins and his staff's ability to win close games and develop players. So if he left, I'd certainly wish he and his staff all the best, and I'd have confidence we could find a suitable successor.
 
7th Cir. Cat said:
It's crazy, if Coach K had retired the year we made the tournament, CC would have been on the short list for the Duke job.
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Who do you think the front runner is today? Capel? Woj? Dawkins? Right or wrong, it seems likely it will be a K disciple.
 
Being a Duke guy does not seem like a great business card for a coach these days. Jury still out on Bobby Hurley and Woj, but I would not say the others have set the world on fire. But, I suppose, that is beyond the point.

I still believe he can develop into a good fit for the school. And that there's a very good chance we would be worse under the next coach.

But I would not be sad. Right now I feel he is the basketball equivalent of the celebrities who have tried motor sports. You have a decent machine, but you are not great at handling it.
 
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Fitzphile said:
I'd wish him well. Would not be angry in the least. NU is a tough job and at some point I believe he will move to greener pastures.

As far as replacing him goes, NU now has facilities competitive with other major programs. There only has to be 1 talented coach at who wants a multi-million dollar salary in the B1G for NU to get a replacement. I suspect the applicant pool will not be small.
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Sorry but if CCC and his recruiting chops cannot get things by admissions and that is deemed as the reason for the lack of success, we would be very lucky to find someone willing to end their career by coming here. While facilities are better, admissions and the depth of our conference with other teams not having our limitations....
 
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Vassar69 said:
Replacing him will be easier than hiring him, because the flow of money into the conference has increased considerably in the last seven years with the new TV deal. Money talks, and they won’t have a hard time finding a decent coach to take their money, regardless of the challenges and history associated with the gig.

Bigger question is who would hire Collins that would convince him to step down? Hard to imagine him voluntarily moving down to a lower level and a significantly lower salary (and additionally having to buy out his own contract on the way out). And it’s hard to imagine another Power 5 school taking a risk on a coach who is under .500 overall including buy games and 38 games below .500 in conference play. (I know there are inherent reasons that aren’t entirely his fault, but much of that losing is also of his own doing and those records make for tough optics if an AD was trying to sell his boosters on the hire.)
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Somewhere like Vanderbilt. Vandy has lost 25 consecutive conference games. It's a southern, small, academic private school that has admissions policies that are more conducive to recruiting.

CC still has a solid resume. He played at Duke and he took the worst program of all time to its first tournament (and won a game!). For a multitude of reasons, things haven't worked out though in Evanston. He and his agent could sell that to boosters/boards if he wanted to.
 
7th Cir. Cat said:
I don't want to turn this into a thread about whether CC should keep his job because NU won't force him out after this year.

But if a good job opened up and CC decided on his own to go to a school with less academic restrictions and get a fresh start, would you be legitimately upset?

Given our current 1-9 record we will almost certainly finish in the BIG basement (10th or lower). That will mean that we've finished in the BIG basement in 6 out of his 7 years. The one year we didn't was glorious.

So how mad would you be if we had to get a new coach? Would you be mad because you think CC is a singular figure and all the intangibles (local guy, Duke pedigree, NBA dad) mean that this is the best we can do in terms of a hiring?

Not being able to get reputable coach is the one thing that would concern me because "even the Duke guy couldn't win in Evanston" would be a thing. I think our coach search would be even harder than when we hired Collins, but I think his coaching and development (probably not recruiting) could be replicated and replaced.
Click to expand...

I would be completely pissed. Not at CCC, but for the reasons why. No one is hiring him right now for a big job. If he left for a lateral job, it would confirm in my mind everything that many of us believe, that admissions will make it nearly impossible to consistently recruit. Therefore compete. No one will stay long term if they can’t compete. Career killer for any Coach.
 
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Purple Pile Driver said:
I would be completely pissed. Not at CCC, but for the reasons why. No one is hiring him right now for a big job. If he left for a lateral job, it would confirm in my mind everything that many of us believe, that admissions will make it nearly impossible to consistently recruit. Therefore compete. No one will stay long term if they can’t compete. Career killer for any Coach.
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If he went to a school like Vanderbilt and had sustained success, it would be the ultimate AB test for his coaching ability and the impact of the admissions department.
 
hdhntr1 said:
Sorry but if CCC and his recruiting chops cannot get things by admissions and that is deemed as the reason for the lack of success, we would be very lucky to find someone willing to end their career by coming here. While facilities are better, admissions and the depth of our conference with other teams not having our limitations....
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Coaching involves recruiting and development (along with game planning and in game adjustments). Collins has been bad at all of it with the exception of recruiting (and that hasn’t exactly been lights out).
I wouldn’t”t be mad at all if he left. Addition by subtraction.
 
I would neither be mad nor would I be concerned about the future of the program.
 
curdog said:
Coaching involves recruiting and development (along with game planning and in game adjustments). Collins has been bad at all of it with the exception of recruiting (and that hasn’t exactly been lights out).
I wouldn’t”t be mad at all if he left. Addition by subtraction.
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Collins got NU into the DANCE! If he leaves, good luck any kind of a Div.1 coach to come to Evanston. I 'm thinking he's waiting on a NBA opportunity.
 
Purple Pile Driver said:
Bottom tier P6 teams with spotty history. Vanderbilt was brought up, no way he would leave on his own for Vanderbilt.
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Except Vanderbilt, in BASKETBALL, really doesn't have a spotty history. They've been to the NCAA Tourney a bunch of times over the last 20 years including a couple of Sweet 16 appearances. It has at least been demonstrated that some level of sustained success is possible there.
 
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FeralFelidae said:
Except Vanderbilt, in BASKETBALL, really doesn't have a spotty history. They've been to the NCAA Tourney a bunch of times over the last 20 years including a couple of Sweet 16 appearances. It has at least been demonstrated that some level of sustained success is possible there.
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Let's not forget we are NU. We are not bottom tier of a P6. We are the bottom of the bottom. Who's historically comparable to use? Very, very few.

Therefore, lateral moves should include some non P6 programs in the American or A10.
 
GatoLouco said:
Let's not forget we are NU. We are not bottom tier of a P6. We are the bottom of the bottom. Who's historically comparable to use? Very, very few.

Therefore, lateral moves should include some non P6 programs in the American or A10.
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In terms of results? Nebraska. Yeah, they've been to the Tourney more times, but at least NU has won a game.

Collins could probably take his recruiting to Nebraska, with fewer recruiting restrictions, and have some good results.
 
FeralFelidae said:
Except Vanderbilt, in BASKETBALL, really doesn't have a spotty history. They've been to the NCAA Tourney a bunch of times over the last 20 years including a couple of Sweet 16 appearances. It has at least been demonstrated that some level of sustained success is possible there.
Click to expand...

They've lost 25 consecutive conference games!! That's an NCAA record. Their recent history is pretty miserable.
 
FeralFelidae said:
In terms of results? Nebraska. Yeah, they've been to the Tourney more times, but at least NU has won a game.

Collins could probably take his recruiting to Nebraska, with fewer recruiting restrictions, and have some good results.
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Yeah, not many. To be fair it probably should be confined to recent history, maybe this century. Nebraska, Rutgers, Washington State,Oregon State.. Regardless, not many
 
GatoLouco said:
Yeah, not many. To be fair it probably should be confined to recent history, maybe this century. Nebraska, Rutgers, Washington State,Oregon State.. Regardless, not many
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I found it interesting that you mentioned Rutgers. Did you watch their game earlier this week? The pbp announcer made a point whereas Rutgers coach has totally kicked some butt this year with the team with players that were ranked lower than virtually all of NU's players and the rest of the BIG squads. They are a lock for the Ncaa tourney if they continue winning for the first time since 1991?- is that accurate?? Is the R coach named Fink or something like that? Even R. harper Jr was ranked like 250 or less in the country as a hs recruit. Their star center I think was an unknown transfer from Stony Brook or something like that?? Isn't Rutgers undefeated at home? or close to it I think.
 
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Purple Pile Driver said:
Is this because you have confidence NU can find someone to consistently produce competitive teams?
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I think they should keep trying until they do. Collins himself disproved the argument that NU admissions makes winning impossible.
 
mickbula said:
I found it interesting that you mentioned Rutgers. Did you watch their game earlier this week? The pbp announcer made a point whereas Rutgers coach has totally kicked some butt this year with the team with players that were ranked lower than virtually all of NU's players and the rest of the BIG squads. They are a lock for the Ncaa tourney if they continue winning for the first time since 1991?- is that accurate?? Is the R coach named Fink or something like that? Even R. harper Jr was ranked like 250 or less in the country as a hs recruit. Isn't Rutgers undefeated at home? or close to it I think.
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Yeah. I believe the announcer also said something about him going after "hard nosed kids".
 
Has a men’s basketball coach ever left on his own volition for another job? I think not.
 
Has an NU head basketball coach ever left on his own volition for another college basketball head coaching job? I think not.
 
CatJones said:
Has an NU head basketball coach ever left on his own volition for another college basketball head coaching job? I think not.
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Tex Winter left for Long Beach State ...

https://dailynorthwestern.com/2018/...t-nu-remembered-for-upsets-terrific-coaching/

By the end of his fifth season, Winter had grown discontented with Cats. His plans to renovate McGaw Hall had gone nowhere and he openly expressed frustration to the media at the lack of money dedicated to the team. Winter began to look at other offers.

“I was in his office following the last game of the year and he had the job posting for Long Beach State on his desk. He made like a flip comment,” Caccese said. “‘They’re looking for a winning coach. Think I qualify?’”

Winter applied and he was accepted as the head coach of Long Beach State in April of 1978. He recommended Falk replace him at the helm of the program, which is what NU decided to do.

Winter finished his five years with a 42-89 record, which is a .321 winning percentage. In his four other collegiate homes, he would never finish his tenure with a record below .500.

Winter spent five years at Long Beach State, where he had a winning record, before he found himself back in the NBA.
 
JournCat said:
Tex Winter left for Long Beach State ...

https://dailynorthwestern.com/2018/...t-nu-remembered-for-upsets-terrific-coaching/

By the end of his fifth season, Winter had grown discontented with Cats. His plans to renovate McGaw Hall had gone nowhere and he openly expressed frustration to the media at the lack of money dedicated to the team. Winter began to look at other offers.

“I was in his office following the last game of the year and he had the job posting for Long Beach State on his desk. He made like a flip comment,” Caccese said. “‘They’re looking for a winning coach. Think I qualify?’”

Winter applied and he was accepted as the head coach of Long Beach State in April of 1978. He recommended Falk replace him at the helm of the program, which is what NU decided to do.

Winter finished his five years with a 42-89 record, which is a .321 winning percentage. In his four other collegiate homes, he would never finish his tenure with a record below .500.

Winter spent five years at Long Beach State, where he had a winning record, before he found himself back in the NBA.
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I was at NU when Tex was there. Those were the days of McGaw Hall with the dirt floor. Place was abysmal.
 
I fell down a rabbit hole wondering what happened to Rich Falk, Tex Winter's successor. He was fired after going 2-16 in conference in 1986, one of those wins being a Minnesota forfeit. But check out this Dean Smith quote in the Tribune:

''Northwestern purports to be a great academic institution and I`m sure it is. Yet, he (Falk) didn`t have a chance to recruit players that others did,'' said Smith. ''Northwestern should admit some academic risks who have a chance to graduate, like Duke and Carolina do, or they should get out of the Big 10.''

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1986-03-15-8601190749-story.html
 
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Don't want him to leave but if he left I wouldn't be that upset. Can't be any worse than we are now. Maybe a very young mid-major coach could instill some additional momentum
 
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