You need to start worrying about your starting pitching. Come playoff time, that pitching staff will be exposed.
OT-Recovering from Covid-19
- Thread starter Catnap22
- Start date
You need to start worrying about your starting pitching. Come playoff time, that pitching staff will be exposed.
The Apple doesn’t Fall far from the tree. The offsprings are just as likely to fall prey to Darwinism.
If you "really think I'm wrong" I am curious what data you are looking at. I'm not basing it on intuition, I just look at the data. Here's an article that runs through a lot of different studies that have been done on a variety of topics (not just the one we are discussing) from many different countries. Granted the article is positioned from the perspective of debunking things, but you can just look at the data and studies he links and judge for yourself. There are other studies and articles but this has a lot of them in one place. Data appears to show that vaccine "immunity" (i) is roughly similar to natural "immunity" with variability across different studies (this isn't explicitly discussed here, but generally it looks like the vaccine provides slightly higher % initial day 1 immunity but I'd note that the rate of decay seems to be a bit faster than natural "immunity" at 6-9 months vs 9-12 months, to overly generalize); (ii) is slightly less effective against Delta variant, with success rates going down into the 60's from the 90's, though both versions have their struggles here and it's early enough that data is nowhere near conclusive. If you've have Covid there is a good chance it makes sense to get a single booster shot ~9 months after initial Covid, particularly if that new booster seems to show that it is fairly effective against Delta. Though if young and active male, the incidence of myocarditis as a side effect isn't much different than the risk of severe Covid, particularly on a secondary case. Throw in possibility of long-term side effects (which is quite remote, but nonzero)... it's kind of a wash for someone who already had Covid, unless you are old and/or at risk in which case you should almost certainly get a booster 6-9 months afterward.
https://www.realclearscience.com/ar...nding_about_the_covid-19_vaccines_791050.html
And here's an article from a little while back discussing internal immunity vs mucosal immunity and why vaccinated folks are more likely to transmit Covid than folks with natural "immunity". This is more "science" than "data" I guess, so you can read and judge whether you agree with it from a theoretical perspective. There is quite a bit of research that has been done on mucosal vaccines over the years in an effort to improve effectiveness for flu-like viruses.
Opinion | Follow Your Nose to Herd Immunity
The biology behind ‘breakthrough’ cases and the confusing CDC mask guidance.
www.wsj.com
Ill put up $1,000 right now and take your money. My natural immunity of our 38 million people in my tribe that are now much more protected than your people who need to double mask and run for more boosters.
Ill gladly take your $1,000. Ill bet ya $10,000 if you want. Love free money.
Glad to see that people are now winning settlements over the bs mandates now. George mason didnt want to pay millions to a very very smart professor.
These institutions need to stop the religion and follow science or get sued by those of us who have medical clearance.
nclalegal.org
These institutions need to stop the religion and follow science or get sued by those of us who have medical clearance.
George Mason Univ. Caves to NCLA’s Lawsuit over Vaccine Mandate, Grants Prof. Medical Exemption - New Civil Liberties Alliance
Washington, DC (August 17, 2021) – The New Civil Liberties Alliance is pleased to announce today that George Mason University (GMU) has granted a medical exemption from its mandatory Covid-19 vaccination policy to NCLA client Todd Zywicki, George Mason University Foundation Professor of Law at...
nclalegal.org
I just need to ask. If this poster wasn’t personally close with many members of the board/moderator, would we put up with threads like this that seem to revel in misinformation? I’ll take my answer off the air.Glad to see that people are now winning settlements over the bs mandates now. George mason didnt want to pay millions to a very very smart professor.
These institutions need to stop the religion and follow science or get sued by those of us who have medical clearance.
George Mason Univ. Caves to NCLA’s Lawsuit over Vaccine Mandate, Grants Prof. Medical Exemption - New Civil Liberties Alliance
Washington, DC (August 17, 2021) – The New Civil Liberties Alliance is pleased to announce today that George Mason University (GMU) has granted a medical exemption from its mandatory Covid-19 vaccination policy to NCLA client Todd Zywicki, George Mason University Foundation Professor of Law at...
Lol. You cant argue against one thing i posted. You have to reduce your position to a personal rant. You have continually failed to academically discuss the data and articles mentioned.
The law professor in the article is much smarter than you. His position that his natural immunity trumped mandates was convincing even though that bothers you.
And Ill bet you $10,000 that my natural immunity far exceeds yours.
At any rate, i guess continue your personal rants.
If you and other deluded flat earthers want to continue talking nonsense against natural immunity then ill check ya super quick. Mask up and go get your booster.
It's par for course. I guess he needs to brag about his dubious honor of developing antibodies after going full Covid along with the ICU and ventilator experience, which could've all been avoided by simply following the science and getting vaccinated. Yawn.
Thanks for your thoughts. I read the commentary from the doctor. I couldn't get into the WSJ piece. I think it's good to think through the various studies and understand that none of this is black and white. I think the author makes some mistakes.... or at least, let's just say I disagree with some of his interpretations, but that happens in science. This stuff is very complicated. I think one problem a lot of people are having, especially the majority of us who are getting a lot of this information through a newsmedia-filtered lens, is a lack of understanding of the limitations of epidemiology studies. The media loves to report simplified, splashy headlines, but epidemiology is an incredibly inexact science. To his credit, the author of your piece acknowledges this in some places, but then ignores it in others. Basically, these studies trying to look at case numbers and infer immunity from it are very hard to interpret, because there are so many factors involved that could influence the outcome. Vaccinated people may have started taking on more risky behaviors as we went through the summer, which corresponded to the delta surge, and so their numbers went up not because they were less protected than in the spring, but because their risk for exposure was different. Also, the studies from England and Israel are often misinterpreted because SO MANY people are vaccinated over there. If 90% of your adult population is vaccinated, then of course you will have a higher percentage of COVID cases in vaccinated people. It doesn't necessarily mean there are any more breakthrough cases. All these issues complicate the understanding of what is happening.If you "really think I'm wrong" I am curious what data you are looking at. I'm not basing it on intuition, I just look at the data. Here's an article that runs through a lot of different studies that have been done on a variety of topics (not just the one we are discussing) from many different countries. Granted the article is positioned from the perspective of debunking things, but you can just look at the data and studies he links and judge for yourself. There are other studies and articles but this has a lot of them in one place. Data appears to show that vaccine "immunity" (i) is roughly similar to natural "immunity" with variability across different studies (this isn't explicitly discussed here, but generally it looks like the vaccine provides slightly higher % initial day 1 immunity but I'd note that the rate of decay seems to be a bit faster than natural "immunity" at 6-9 months vs 9-12 months, to overly generalize); (ii) is slightly less effective against Delta variant, with success rates going down into the 60's from the 90's, though both versions have their struggles here and it's early enough that data is nowhere near conclusive. If you've have Covid there is a good chance it makes sense to get a single booster shot ~9 months after initial Covid, particularly if that new booster seems to show that it is fairly effective against Delta. Though if young and active male, the incidence of myocarditis as a side effect isn't much different than the risk of severe Covid, particularly on a secondary case. Throw in possibility of long-term side effects (which is quite remote, but nonzero)... it's kind of a wash for someone who already had Covid, unless you are old and/or at risk in which case you should almost certainly get a booster 6-9 months afterward.
https://www.realclearscience.com/ar...nding_about_the_covid-19_vaccines_791050.html
And here's an article from a little while back discussing internal immunity vs mucosal immunity and why vaccinated folks are more likely to transmit Covid than folks with natural "immunity". This is more "science" than "data" I guess, so you can read and judge whether you agree with it from a theoretical perspective. There is quite a bit of research that has been done on mucosal vaccines over the years in an effort to improve effectiveness for flu-like viruses.
Opinion | Follow Your Nose to Herd Immunity
The biology behind ‘breakthrough’ cases and the confusing CDC mask guidance.
In the end, the part that seems pretty simple for me is - the people that really do understand this stuff better than me are nearly unanimous on the point that everyone should get vaccinated. At some point, it is ok to trust experts. I don't tell a pilot how to land an airliner, nor do I tell a mechanic how to fix my engine. That would be stupid. Second, the data that is pretty clear is that millions of people have been vaccinated around the world and the serious repercussions from it are effectively nothing. From what I read, even some of the heart related concerns that were popping up were a) fairly easily treated and b) much worse in people who ACTUALLY GOT COVID. So, I guess despite some uncertainty around the edges, the main message that everyone should get vaccinated TODAY is as true as ever and, while not making COVID entirely disappear, would dramatically reduce the risk for everyone.
In all scientific evidence, Florida will be the most protected State in the usa as 30,000 a day obtain natural immunity to go along with the booster tribe
96% by October 1st!
96% by October 1st!
I know you like facts.
The population of Florida is about 21 million.
53% are fully vaccinated, or about 13 million people.
About 20,000 people are getting covid per day in Florida, not 30,000. But sure, let's go with 30,000. That's
900,000 over the next month. Let's assume none of the die. Add them in and you get to 57% of the population either vaccinated or newly recovered. That's about the vaccination rate of Colorado today. Florida goes from the 23rd most vaccinated state to the 17th. (Adding in all of the people who got covid in the last 9 months doesn't move this that much.)
Why does getting this right matter? The point is that the number of people actually getting covid is not high enough -- even in Florida -- to reach herd immunity any time soon. People need to actually get the vaccine.
Various research presents evidence but you only understand the booster tribe.
I will be there to give you plasma.
USF: Researchers: Florida may reach herd immunity by Sept. 7
"We are predicting the peak of the current wave will occur around the end of August – 31,000 new cases on August 30. That's about two times what occurred in January," Dr. Edwin Michael at the University of South Florida said.
www.google.com
Not worried about the starting pitching. Worried about the Bullpen and the Manager.
I'll straight up put up $10,000 against your flat earth thinking you have by putting up my antibodies against your booster deal.
At any rate, if you actually expanded your mind, you might realize that NONE of us are really through this. Your little 3rd or 4th booster may be no match for the next covid and my antibodies may be toast as well. But it's high time that you and others stop the madness and fake news that somehow your vaccine is better than my natural immunity. It's not. Let's focus together on the mu variant and God only knows what the hell else is coming.
Going to Duke (Me and waterboy or even Glades is he catches a ride) and I WILL BE WEARING A MASK OUTSIDE. I suggest others follow the science as well!
You’re still just posting contrived drivel. What the **** are you positing exactly, that you’re less likely to die that I am? **** right the **** off.
It depends on how severe one's covid exposure and symptoms were. In your case, you're protected pretty well against Delta for now.
Except that Israel is 62.5% (US 51.9%)vaccinated so that infection rate among vaccinated is 3.2% (2 of 62.5)and among non vaccinated is 5.3% (2 of 37.5) So while the rate is 65% higher among unvaccinated, it is a long way from what you suggestAh, the case of Israel & infections of the vaccinated. Let's see what an Epidemiologist has to offer.
"This is likely an example of base rate bias in epidemiology (it’s called base rate fallacy in other fields). Professor Levy said that “half of infected people were vaccinated”. This language is important because it’s very different than “half of vaccinated people were infected”. And this misunderstanding happens all. the. time.
The more vaccinated a population, the more we’ll hear of the vaccinated getting infected. For example, say there’s a community that’s 100% vaccinated. If there’s transmission, we know breakthrough cases will happen. So, by definition, 100% of outbreak cases will be among the vaccinated. It will just be 100% out of a smaller number.
Cue Israel. They are one of the global leaders in vaccinations; 85% of Israeli adults are vaccinated. So, say we have the following scenario:
It would look something like this:
- 100 adult community
- 4 COVID19 cases
- 50% of cases were among the vaccinated
With an infection rate among the vaccinated of 2% and infection rate of 13% among the unvaccinated, this would give us an efficacy rate of 85%. This is pretty darn close to the clinical trial efficacy rate, meaning the Pfizer vaccine is still working against Delta.
https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/israel-50-of-infected-are-vaccinated
Coronavirus (COVID-19) Vaccinations
Our vaccination dataset uses the most recent official numbers from governments and health ministries worldwide. Population estimates for per-capita metrics are based on the United Nations World Population Prospects. Income groups are based on the World Bank classification. A full list of our...
ourworldindata.org
Dear @FloridAlum , stop covering for your weird friend. — Everyone.
Look, I am not an anti vaxer and I definitely believe older people and many other groups should get vaccinated. Told one tonight that he ought to get vaccinated. But I feel we should be much more careful pushing it on kids. No drug, this vaccine included is without risk and this has plenty. Ever heard of VAERS? Vaccine adverse reaction reporting system. They have recorded about 600k adverse reactions (and I am not talking just being tired or injection site discomfort). And these are just the ones being actually reported. Totals are probably several times this. It even includes something like 13K deaths (though I think they net out to about 7K). This does not mean that the vaccines caused ALL these deaths as the reporting system is set up so that deaths that occur within a certain time frame after vaccination are included without determining for certain that the vaccine is the cause. And while the CDC and others try to dismiss them all, that also seems ridiculous as it is highly likely that some portion of this group can be attributed to vaccines.
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/...vents-covid-vaccines-booster-shots-september/
So there are a lot of adverse effects and It is highly likely that adverse side effects are significantly under reported. And we have been told very little about these adverse effects.
.
As far as vaccinating kids, Since only about 430 deaths (out of 645K or 0.06%) have been to the 24%(2010 census) of the population under 18 and 3/4s of these deaths occurred in kids that have other health issues, they have very little risk from the disease (no it is not zero risk but nothing, including the vaccines is) Just feel we should proceed cautiously in this area. I just have a problem with your statement that "there is almost no chance of harm." as an attempt to dismiss all concern
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Baseless. You just keep bringing up dopey things and YOU keep asking me things. Ive just been kind enough to answer your questions even though they are boring.
Thanks for the reasonable response with a balanced approach and appreciation for the gray area, which many folks seem to lack these days. First, yes I agree that folks that have been vaccinated then are likely to take on more “risky” behavior. However, do you really think they are taking on more risky behavior than the average person who has already had Covid and is unvaccinated? I would argue the opposite. So while I don’t assume that when interpreting the data, I would hazard a guess that if anything the bias in the epidemiological studies (see I can use the same big word to make myself sound smart) runs in the other direction - ie it underestimates the protection from natural “immunity”.
Second, re the 90% thing. To start neither of those countries is that close to 90, but that’s beside the point. The more important point is that no reasonable person is looking at studies and focusing on the absolute numbers, only the extreme left or right kooks who are intentionally (or stupidly) trying to skew the data would do that. Any halfway intelligent person is interpreting the data on a per person / ratio basis. So your point is off base. You could have made the point that it’s a small sample size issue in some cases which is true that can skew results (eg one might look at the recent Israel study where the rate of reinfection is 1/7 that of breakthrough cases for vaccinated, but the N on the reinfection side is meaningful but still somewhat smaller than one might desire), but I dont think that’s what you said.
Third, sure it is fine for people to trust the “experts” if they want. But it doesn’t take a medical expert to look at and interpret data. And IMO, the supposed experts at the CDC have repeatedly shown themselves to be wholly unreliable at providing objective data-driven or scientific views throughout this process so at this point there’s no chance I’m taking their word for anything. Also there are plenty of “experts” that have more balanced views, it’s just that many of them have been sanctioned or silenced which is a shame given that this is supposed to be a free country.
PS I agree with you that the side effects of vaccine are no worse than those of getting Covid - in fact I happen to believe (not scientifically supported mind you!) that it’s pretty much the same side effect when talking about myocarditis, and folks who are pro or anti vaccine prefer to position one way or the other to suit their preexisting views. The other long-term side effects of Covid (respiratory / lung / etc related) are clearly worse and the vaccine has a strong advantage in that regard - but mind you this commentary was narrowly focused on folks that have already had Covid so that isn’t hugely relevant).
PPS that was way too many words so I should prob stop writing on this topic, more importantly happy Gameday and GO CATS!
I have to push back on part of what you wrote here. You may not like this, but I get tired of this attitude you expressed that it doesn't take a medical expert to look at and interpret data. Yeah... it kinda' does.
There are people who have spent their whole lives learning about these topics, studying them, thinking about them, performing experiments, talking to other experts.... I'm sorry, but when these people look at these data and interpret it, it is much different and way more trustworthy then when folks like you and I do it. And to be clear, although I am a medical scientist, I have no expertise in infectious disease, immunology or even epidemiology, so I absolutely lump myself in with everyone else. As per my analogy earlier, I wouldn't want some guy to take over for the pilot and land my plane just because he watched Airplane last night. Why would I listen to some idiot on FoxNews or Facebook tell me how to interpret data on Covid and, therefore, go about my life??!! I will never understand that. Anthony Faucci was made out to be a villain by a large segment of the population this past year and a half. Why!!!???? Because he used his lifetime of study and service to try his best to figure out how to keep people from dying from Covid???
Second, this idea that I've heard spread around that the CDC is wholly unreliable is ridiculous. The job they have is extraordinarily difficult. Think about what the CDC has to do. They have to respond and react to emerging threats to human health in real time - trying to learn as much as they can about something brand new as quickly as possible, then make difficult decisions about recommendations to best protect public health as broadly as possible, all while dealing with the political winds that swirl around them, influencing their ability to take action. People criticized them about masks in the beginning. Well, when this whole thing started here in 2020, this was a brand new virus. We knew next to nothing about it. What do you do in those cases? You rely on your knowledge of other viruses and hope there are parallels. So, back in March 2020, we were more concerned about spread by contact. There was a rush on sanitizer. Masks needed to be used my medical professionals who came in very close contact with very sick people, but it wasn't clear what their impact would be on the general population. As we learned that this virus spread quite easily via droplets in the air, it became clear that general masking was important. The reversal on masks came in less than a month! By mid-April, states were issuing mask mandates. It is normal to get things wrong sometimes because this is complicated shit. It is also extremely important to adjust to new information, which is what the CDC has done multiple times during this pandemic, to their credit.
Finally, I don't understand how this vaccine became so tied to political ideology. Even some of you on here who lean right, still seem to be in the position of defending those who won't get a vaccine. Even though you know better! You've gotten the damn shot yourselves? Why defend this position?? The anti-vax movement didn't used to be about political ideology. It certainly wasn't a Republican position. There has always been this kooky fringe of anti-vaxxers, but it used to be made up of a combination of far-left, hippy naturalists and far-right, conspiracy theorist nutjobs. Now, it seems that anti-vaxing has become a pretty mainstream Republican position. Why?? I'll never understand that. I realize some of you now may feel this need to defend your tribe a little, but why?? Why make this your tribe? Anti-vax shouldn't be part of the Republican ideology. Leave that to the fringe nuts on both sides.
Emboldening the anti-vax, climate conspiracist, women are here to breed, gunsgunsgunsguns anti-education crazies is the only way to keep rich people’s taxes low.
You can absolve anything if you think that your tax bill is the only thing that matters. It’s just voting in self-interest.
I don't really want to get into those other issues. Some of those have long been tied up in the two political camps, but vaccines didn't used to be one of those. Let's not start that now.
I realize that you don’t want to, but it’s all part of the same thing.
Maybe we can get this thread deleted.
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Carl Sagan predicted anti-vaxxers and COVID deniers 26 years ago
“I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...
The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance”
Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark
He was a scientist and a prophet.
Your pulmonologist is not well published and he and and his wife are most likely fame grubbing quacks. The results are scientifically dubious at best.
"Randomized controlled trials are needed to confirm these findings."
I stopped reading after, "Most patients in both groups also received hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, or both." Maybe you just got lucky and weren't one of the patients with lethal comorbidities...
Use of Ivermectin Is Associated With Lower Mortality in Hospitalized Patients With Coronavirus Disease 2019: The Ivermectin in COVID Nineteen Study
"Randomized controlled trials are needed to confirm these findings."
I stopped reading after, "Most patients in both groups also received hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, or both." Maybe you just got lucky and weren't one of the patients with lethal comorbidities...
Use of Ivermectin Is Associated With Lower Mortality in Hospitalized Patients With Coronavirus Disease 2019: The Ivermectin in COVID Nineteen Study
Ever hear of polio. Us grade school kids stood in along line to get the vaccine that totally worked against it.
Of course you stopped reading. Earlier in the pandemic, the hydroC was used however medical doctors dont treat it that way.
But the Ivemectin is still current.
Sad you call the guy a quack when he got a major medical research institution to include it in my protocol. You do know that the hospital has to approve it, right?
At any rate, continue keeping info from your brain and keep calling top pulmonologist quacks. Sheesh
Broward is not major by any means. Hospitals approve a lot of off label treatments when a desperate doctor begs the internal review board in the middle of a pandemic and liability insurance covers all their butts. THERE WAS NEVER A CONTROLLED STUDY. You were a guinea pig. Plus they dosed with other medicines so the ivermectin can’t be proven to be what worked. It’s all BS. At least the vaccines went thru FDA test protocols, albeit emergency, but now Pfizer is approved and and Moderna will be shortly. I work with the FDA for a living with 20+ years of experience. They don’t bend easy even in a pandemic and clearing the pharma bar requires hard data from CONTROLLED STUDIES. You’ve drank the veterinary kool-aid. At least you were half lucky. Had you taken the vaccine, you could have prevented a $20k plus hospital stay, and probably increased your likelihood of not getting long term Covid effects. Forrest Gump statement withheld.
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I’m an ex-Jew secular humanist. I believe in facts and science and treating others like I want to be treated (when they deserve it). I don’t believe in the Easter bunny.
I try to make the world a better place while I’m on this green Earth and leave it better than I found it. Spouting lies and half-truths isn’t in my bag of tricks. If I see something wrong, Imma say something.
Quaecumque Sunt Vera. If you don’t get that, you aren’t a Northwestern Man.
That would be Philippians 4:8, Turk. I think you're familiar with that.
Well then you have learned nothing. Your conclusion "its all BS" is non academic and actually quite ignorant.
You sir, believe in the Easter Bunny. You may not know you do, oh but you do. Say hello to him for me.
Bwahahaha! News flash: Florida man with no scientific background does not understand the scientific method. The truth always comes out. The truth will set you free.
Im smart enough to admit when im wrong. Your conclusion that certain protocols are "all BS" is and still non academic and unintelligible.
But I guess carry on!
“Certain protocols” have not been proven by scientific method or controlled study. Or the FDA! Your doc threw poop at the wall and prayed that it stuck. And he doesn’t know if it stuck cause the poop or the wall was sticky or if the poop will continue to slide down the wall at a later time. Maybe my BS conclusion was too scientific for you to comprehend? I was trying to dumb it down for the masses.
