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Read his post through. He was acknowledging the metrics and moving beyond to basically say so what as what matters is what they do on the field
The metrics don't really give any reason to be that negative though.

Based on the recruiting sites metrics this is a relatively strong class for us.

I think our fans get a bit too caught up in the overall metrics without noting that our classes are smaller, which makes the overall metrics meaningless for us.

By the average ratings (removing class size), we're doing just fine and continuing to recruit at the level of the past 5 years with a steady upward drift.
 
The metrics don't really give any reason to be that negative though.

Based on the recruiting sites metrics this is a relatively strong class for us.

I think our fans get a bit too caught up in the overall metrics without noting that our classes are smaller, which makes the overall metrics meaningless for us.

By the average ratings (removing class size), we're doing just fine and continuing to recruit at the level of the past 5 years with a steady upward drift.
I really do not look too much at star ratings or decimal points, though they are interesting. I look to see which other schools extended offers, whether we are getting commitments early (indicating a priority from the coaches), whether the commitments fill positions that address my perceptions of our needs. The ratings vary a lot. ESPN has four of our guys as 4* recruits, Rivals has only 1. In no way did I put down our class; I only asked if people thought it the quality of class to compete with OSU, UW, and PSU. Do you?
 
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I really do not look too much at star ratings or decimal points, though they are interesting. I look to see which other schools extended offers, whether we are getting commitments early (indicating a priority from the coaches), whether the commitments fill positions that address my perceptions of our needs. The ratings vary a lot. ESPN has four of our guys as 4* recruits, Rivals has only 1. In no way did I put down our class; I only asked if people thought it the quality of class to compete with OSU, UW, and PSU. Do you?
I don't think we're at the level needed to consistently compete with OSU or PSU.

Have we improved from Fitz's early years? By every metric (including comparable offers), yes.

Can we get there? Yes, I think so, but we need to keep winning at the same or a greater rate as the past 3 years while the boost from the facility kicks in over the next 2 years.
 
I really do not look too much at star ratings or decimal points, though they are interesting. I look to see which other schools extended offers, whether we are getting commitments early (indicating a priority from the coaches), whether the commitments fill positions that address my perceptions of our needs. The ratings vary a lot. ESPN has four of our guys as 4* recruits, Rivals has only 1. In no way did I put down our class; I only asked if people thought it the quality of class to compete with OSU, UW, and PSU. Do you?
Your kidding , right?
 
Instead of wondering if our new guys will allow us to hang with Purdue, we need to ask ourselves each year if our current recruiting class is likely to beat those of OSU, UW, UM, or PSU in three years out on the gridiron. We obviously need a "game changer", a Taj MaFitz, or a Fake By the Lake. Wait - we have one. D.J. Brown is exactly the kind of guy it was supposed to turn our way - to allow us to play on an equal playing field with the so called bigger boys. When do the benefits kick in?
If Catsdad is reading this thread, I'm wondering if just the promise and drawings of the new facility had any impact on Jango.
I think they took recruiting very seriously and more substantial things like character of the program were the ultimate determining factor but did the mere promise of a spectacular practice facility tip the meter even 1% ?
 
I think Fitz has continued his momentum with good talent in the trenches once again. Think there are nice pieces in this class. I'm sure we'd all love to see 1-2 big time playmakers, but I'm confident with the new facilities and sustained success, that will come. Not sure why there's so much negativity with this group. I would expect at least 4-6 to see the field as true freshman. Time will tell.
 
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The facility has probably had some impact with recruits, but the reality is just that it's hard to imagine a $270 million, 500k sq foot palace on the lake in any kind of approximation that approaches the real thing.

The full impact will start being felt by the 2020 class.
 
I really do not look too much at star ratings or decimal points, though they are interesting. I look to see which other schools extended offers, whether we are getting commitments early (indicating a priority from the coaches), whether the commitments fill positions that address my perceptions of our needs. The ratings vary a lot. ESPN has four of our guys as 4* recruits, Rivals has only 1. In no way did I put down our class; I only asked if people thought it the quality of class to compete with OSU, UW, and PSU. Do you?

Wisconsin won 3 B1G titles with a class that was rated about 81st a few years ago. Northwestern won 2 B1G titles with a class rated 96th.
...........
 
Wisconsin won 3 B1G titles with a class that was rated about 81st a few years ago. Northwestern won 2 B1G titles with a class rated 96th.
...........

Yes, that 96th ranked class won 2 titles playing with a class that was ranked #26. Meanwhile the #16 ranked class got a title in 2000.

Meanwhile our 50+ ranked classes since Barnett left have exactly zero divisional titles much less B1G titles. Coincidence? I think not.
 
Once again, I don't think we will ever be in a position to compete with the Ohio States and Penn States of the world for recruits.

It takes a different mentality to want to go to OSU/PSU/Michigan than it does to want to go to a school like Northwestern.

And frankly, I think the kids nowadays - very few of them care about academics and integrity in a program, especially when it comes paired with a sports-adverse fan base. The majority of the top recruits care about girls, they care about fame, they care about ego, and they care about money.

As such, I don't understand the negativity reflected on NU recruiting on this thread (and on WildcatReport). I think it's borne from unrealistic expectations.

This class is fine.
 
Once again, I don't think we will ever be in a position to compete with the Ohio States and Penn States of the world for recruits.

It takes a different mentality to want to go to OSU/PSU/Michigan than it does to want to go to a school like Northwestern.

And frankly, I think the kids nowadays - very few of them care about academics and integrity in a program, especially when it comes paired with a sports-adverse fan base. The majority of the top recruits care about girls, they care about fame, they care about ego, and they care about money.

As such, I don't understand the negativity reflected on NU recruiting on this thread (and on WildcatReport). I think it's borne from unrealistic expectations.

This class is fine.

You underestimate the number of top recruits that are academically oriented. There are enough, particularly when you consider there are few schools where they can truly pursue elite academics and athletics. For Football there are only a handful of options that have recently experienced excellence on the football field and academically. Notre Dame, Stanford and NU standout with Duke, Boston College, and maybe Vanderbilt in the next tier. That’s about it for the guys who want to play at a school with a chance at Big Time football success and also be at a school where you will be supported in your pursuit of academic excellence off the field.
 
Once again, I don't think we will ever be in a position to compete with the Ohio States and Penn States of the world for recruits.

It takes a different mentality to want to go to OSU/PSU/Michigan than it does to want to go to a school like Northwestern.

And frankly, I think the kids nowadays - very few of them care about academics and integrity in a program, especially when it comes paired with a sports-adverse fan base. The majority of the top recruits care about girls, they care about fame, they care about ego, and they care about money.

As such, I don't understand the negativity reflected on NU recruiting on this thread (and on WildcatReport). I think it's borne from unrealistic expectations.

This class is fine.
Wow, they didn't care about girls, back then?
 
You underestimate the number of top recruits that are academically oriented. There are enough, particularly when you consider there are few schools where they can truly pursue elite academics and athletics. For Football there are only a handful of options that have recently experienced excellence on the football field and academically. Notre Dame, Stanford and NU standout with Duke, Boston College, and maybe Vanderbilt in the next tier. That’s about it for the guys who want to play at a school with a chance at Big Time football success and also be at a school where you will be supported in your pursuit of academic excellence off the field.

The problem is not all of those academically oriented kids necessarily will go to NU, Duke, Stanford etc. While the other B1G schools might not have the academic rep of Northwestern, most of them are not bad schools, so a big-time kid can go to Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State etc. and still get a good education. And some of them might have majors not available at NU.
 
Yes, that 96th ranked class won 2 titles playing with a class that was ranked #26. Meanwhile the #16 ranked class got a title in 2000.

Meanwhile our 50+ ranked classes since Barnett left have exactly zero divisional titles much less B1G titles. Coincidence? I think not.

Might not have gotten B1G titles, but have gotten three 10-win seasons, a couple of other 8-win seasons and three bowl victories. It was great to get the championship win in 2000, but the 66-17 thrashing in the bowl game wasn't a helluva lotta fun.
 
You underestimate the number of top recruits that are academically oriented. There are enough, particularly when you consider there are few schools where they can truly pursue elite academics and athletics. For Football there are only a handful of options that have recently experienced excellence on the football field and academically. Notre Dame, Stanford and NU standout with Duke, Boston College, and maybe Vanderbilt in the next tier. That’s about it for the guys who want to play at a school with a chance at Big Time football success and also be at a school where you will be supported in your pursuit of academic excellence off the field.

The issue is that those guys usually view themselves as football players first and still have all the “heavyweights” on their tail.
 
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The problem is not all of those academically oriented kids necessarily will go to NU, Duke, Stanford etc. While the other B1G schools might not have the academic rep of Northwestern, most of them are not bad schools, so a big-time kid can go to Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State etc. and still get a good education. And some of them might have majors not available at NU.

True but there are still enough to go around for the schools that truly have an elite combination of athletics/academics. Each of those schools probably have on average 20 scholarships to give every year so we are only talking about 120 kids every year. You guys have a pretty dim view of HS student athletes if you don’t think there are enough of those kind of players out there. Not easy but doable.
 
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Northwestern needs to succeed in winning 1 out 3 (forget even about 1 out of 2) recruiting battles on a regular basis in head to head battles with Stanford (same or superior academics), Notre Dame (good academics although not at NU's level, Midwest and traditional powerhouse) and perhaps Michigan and Wisconsin (generally considered good academic schools...albeit with a lot more leeway in being able to accept mediocre students) to be able to reach/win a Big Ten championship game outside of a fluke occasion (i.e.,more than once every 8-10 years). By picking off a few recruits (2-4 or 5 annually) who have also been offered by big time programs, recognizing a few gems who were not heavily recruited and generally very good coaching has created a competitive above-average Big Ten team on a year to year basis. But, until NU can consistently obtain 6-10 recruits with the higher tier talent, I believe this is a realistic cap of what NU fans can (and should) realistically expect. Astronomically better and far more stable than when I was a student so I am thrilled anytime we can win 10+, let alone any year when we finally get to the BT championship. But, believing that we can overachieve beyond that level except with a tremendous number of flukes going our way is unrealistic.
 
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Northwestern needs to succeed in winning 1 out 3 (forget even about 1 out of 2) recruiting battles on a regular basis in head to head battles with Stanford (same or superior academics), Notre Dame (good academics although not at NU's level, Midwest and traditional powerhouse) and perhaps Michigan and Wisconsin (generally considered good academic schools...albeit with a lot more leeway in being able to accept mediocre students) to be able to reach/win a Big Ten championship game outside of a fluke occasion (i.e.,more than once every 8-10 years). By picking off a few recruits (2-4 or 5 annually) who have also been offered by big time programs, recognizing a few gems who were not heavily recruited and generally very good coaching has created a competitive above-average Big Ten team on a year to year basis. But, until NU can consistently obtain 6-10 recruits with the higher tier talent, I believe this is a realistic cap of what NU fans can (and should) realistically expect. Astronomically better and far more stable than when I was a student so I am thrilled anytime we can win 10+, let alone any year when we finally get to the BT championship. But, believing that we can overachieve beyond that level except with a tremendous number of flukes going our way is unrealistic.
That just about says it all. A very honest criteria for just what NU needs to do if they hope to challenge for conference crown.
 
True but there are still enough to go around for the schools that truly have an elite combination of athletics/academics. Each of those schools probably have on average 20 scholarships to give every year so we are only talking about 120 kids every year. You guys have a pretty dim view of HS student athletes if you don’t think there are enough of those kind of players out there. Not easy but doable.

Maybe, but the historical data would indicate otherwise. Stanford is probably about the only one of the elite schools you describe to consistently have a top level of success, and even they have struggled at times. Duke and Vanderbilt have struggled. Most services only rate a few dozen recruits five-stars each year, and few of them seem to head for academically elite schools. We might have a better chance with the more common four-stars, but matching the top few schools that can pull in 15 or more four-stars and five-stars in a year doesn't seem realistic.
 
Maybe, but the historical data would indicate otherwise. Stanford is probably about the only one of the elite schools you describe to consistently have a top level of success, and even they have struggled at times. Duke and Vanderbilt have struggled. Most services only rate a few dozen recruits five-stars each year, and few of them seem to head for academically elite schools. We might have a better chance with the more common four-stars, but matching the top few schools that can pull in 15 or more four-stars and five-stars in a year doesn't seem realistic.

Forget about the star rankings. I don’t judge players solely on that basis. The reality is that outside of ND, the elite student/athletes historically have not had a true option where they could play at an elite football and academic school. Stanford has made the case over the last ten years that they are another option and then I see NU as the next best option. If FItz and NU can consistently string together 9-10 win seasons, bowl wins and top 20 rankings on top of dramatically improved facilities, I think you’ll see NU join that elite club of schools. That’s why next season is critical. We cannot afford a dramatic step backwards. The future of the program may be riding on Clayton Thorson’s recovery.
 
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Forget about the star rankings. I don’t judge players solely on that basis. The reality is that outside of ND, the elite student/athletes historically have not had a true option where they could play at an elite football and academic school. Stanford has made the case over the last ten years that they are another option and then I see NU as the next best option. If FItz and NU can consistently string together 9-10 win seasons, bowl wins and top 20 rankings on top of dramatically improved facilities, I think you’ll see NU join that elite club of schools. That’s why next season is critical. We cannot afford a dramatic step backwards. The future of the program may be riding on Clayton Thorson’s recovery.

And that’s because elite prospects who have the academic profile for NU typically view themselves first and foremost as football players.
 
Forget about the star rankings. I don’t judge players solely on that basis. The reality is that outside of ND, the elite student/athletes historically have not had a true option where they could play at an elite football and academic school. Stanford has made the case over the last ten years that they are another option and then I see NU as the next best option. If FItz and NU can consistently string together 9-10 win seasons, bowl wins and top 20 rankings on top of dramatically improved facilities, I think you’ll see NU join that elite club of schools. That’s why next season is critical. We cannot afford a dramatic step backwards. The future of the program may be riding on Clayton Thorson’s recovery.

100% agree with your penultimate sentence. For the upcoming season, NU has to get off the 10 win followed by 5-7 win rollercoaster. And, while I would be thrilled to see CT’s early return this year, good teams have a strong two deep, especially at the most important position on the field.....An injured CT is not an excuse for a 6 win season this year.
 
And that’s because elite prospects who have the academic profile for NU typically view themselves first and foremost as football players.

I don’t disagree. The next step for NU is to consistently post 9-10 wins and win enough head to head match ups (ND and Wisconsin next year would be great) to the point that they are viewed in the same “league” as the elite powerhouses. Stanford has done that over the last 8-10 years and one can clearly see how that has impacted their recruiting. They go into Georgia, Texas and pull out their fair share of top recruits even when they are going up against the dominant powerhouses.
 
And that’s because elite prospects who have the academic profile for NU typically view themselves first and foremost as football players.
Exactly right. Doesn’t at least half of the 5 stars end up in the NFL. If I am one of them, it is going to take a hell of a sales job to get me to select NU, if I am one of the 30 best HS journalists, I am going to NU. If I am one of the best 30 HS football players; show me Bama, USC, OSU, or Clemson.

We need to get more top 300 players not necessary to get 5 stars as it is extraordinary unlikely. Our case of next 40 years versus next 4 carries much more weight with recruits that believe they can make the NFL, but are smart enough to realize it is not a given. Put players in the league each year and your recruiting will pick dramatically.
 
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100% agree with your penultimate sentence. For the upcoming season, NU has to get off the 10 win followed by 5-7 win rollercoaster. And, while I would be thrilled to see CT’s early return this year, good teams have a strong two deep, especially at the most important position on the field.....An injured CT is not an excuse for a 6 win season this year.
I sure hope I am wrong, but getting 10 wins next season will be very very tough. At least a half dozen very tough games. We got a ton of breaks last year with 3 straight OT wins. Three teams that will come into our game pissed. We better be ready. Too early to know what we have as we haven’t even started Spring Ball, but we need Clayton to have his best season if we are to put 10 on the board and we won’t even know if he is likely ready for several months. Very tough schedule if we have an inexperienced QB.
 
100% agree with your penultimate sentence. For the upcoming season, NU has to get off the 10 win followed by 5-7 win rollercoaster. And, while I would be thrilled to see CT’s early return this year, good teams have a strong two deep, especially at the most important position on the field.....An injured CT is not an excuse for a 6 win season this year.

You mean like 10-7-10 (6-5-7)?
 
I don’t disagree. The next step for NU is to consistently post 9-10 wins and win enough head to head match ups (ND and Wisconsin next year would be great) to the point that they are viewed in the same “league” as the elite powerhouses. Stanford has done that over the last 8-10 years and one can clearly see how that has impacted their recruiting. They go into Georgia, Texas and pull out their fair share of top recruits even when they are going up against the dominant powerhouses.

We’re on the same page, but I’d add that along with the 9-10 wins, NU also has to begin to win the West more than once a decade ( or at this point, ever ). High caliber recruits want to know they will have a chance to play in Championship games because they have been playing in these sort of games since they were small. With Taj Fitz almost completed and strong rumors of refurbishments at Ryan Field, the other impediments to NU attracting high caliber recruits will have been eliminated. ( To those who say that Game Day atmosphere will remain as a significant impediment, I would ask were you at the 2013 NU vs OSU game? An electric—literally— atmoshhere and experience. One of the best football game I’ve ever attended. Put together consistent 9-10 win seasons and Ryan Field will rock. )
 
I sure hope I am wrong, but getting 10 wins next season will be very very tough. At least a half dozen very tough games. We got a ton of breaks last year with 3 straight OT wins. Three teams that will come into our game pissed. We better be ready. Too early to know what we have as we haven’t even started Spring Ball, but we need Clayton to have his best season if we are to put 10 on the board and we won’t even know if he is likely ready for several months. Very tough schedule if we have an inexperienced QB.

Eh. The schedule actually doesn’t scare me nearly as much as most around here, especially if Thorson is playing early.
 
I don’t disagree. The next step for NU is to consistently post 9-10 wins and win enough head to head match ups (ND and Wisconsin next year would be great) to the point that they are viewed in the same “league” as the elite powerhouses. Stanford has done that over the last 8-10 years and one can clearly see how that has impacted their recruiting. They go into Georgia, Texas and pull out their fair share of top recruits even when they are going up against the dominant powerhouses.

Agree 100%, and 2018 is a bit of a “tipping point” season in that regard. That’s why Thorson’s injury could be one of the most poorly-timed injuries I’ve seen. McGee being in a hip support is also low-key a VERY big deal. If those two guys aren’t at 100%, it changes my perspective on the upcoming season in a big way.
 
Agree 100%, and 2018 is a bit of a “tipping point” season in that regard. That’s why Thorson’s injury could be one of the most poorly-timed injuries I’ve seen. McGee being in a hip support is also low-key a VERY big deal. If those two guys aren’t at 100%, it changes my perspective on the upcoming season in a big way.
Hall too.
 
We need CT and Hall available early. We lost a lot, JJTBC, GDick, North, Lanny, Godwin, Kyle and Walsh were multiple year starters. O Line has be be above B1G average for 10 wins.

I feel pretty good about replacing Dickerson and North; it sounds harsh, but they’re both pretty overrrated by NU fans. Lanny will be a big loss, but I’m hopeful based on what I’ve heard of the guys behind him. Pace showed flashes and (pre-injury) I like McGee stepping in pretty seamlessly. Fox should cover Walsh nicely as well. Larkin showed a lot this year.

I just hope the OL is average. That’s all we need if CT is playing.
 
Yes, that 96th ranked class won 2 titles playing with a class that was ranked #26. Meanwhile the #16 ranked class got a title in 2000.

Meanwhile our 50+ ranked classes since Barnett left have exactly zero divisional titles much less B1G titles. Coincidence? I think not.

So the 1992 class sucked and was rescued by the 1993 and 1994 classes? Did Wisconsin's classes all suck? They've only had a top-25 class once.
 
Odds of that happening?

Four starters back and were playing pretty well toward the end of the season. Just need to figure out the slow starts we’ve had the past couple seasons.

Heard very good things about Gerak.
 
Four starters back and were playing pretty well toward the end of the season. Just need to figure out the slow starts we’ve had the past couple seasons.

Heard very good things about Gerak.
Would you have said the NU OL was Top 6 (above Big 10 average, 7th or 8th) at the end of last season?
 
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