CCC and the PG

[NJCat]

If CCC can’t recruit at least two talented guards onto the same roster, then he is not the super recruiter.

This. You'd think as a star Guard himself who wants to run an offense that seems friendly to Guards he could entice a couple of decent Guards. But so far, just BMac and Gaines in 6 years. Odd.

 

[Medill90]

This. You'd think as a star Guard himself who wants to run an offense that seems friendly to Guards he could entice a couple of decent Guards. But so far, just BMac and Gaines in 6 years. Odd.

Just to be real for a second....

Vasser was a mistake

Lyndsey was an off guard who didn't suck

Without Isiah Brown's contribution in a handful of games (Wisconsin) there's an argument that NU doesn't dance

Ash was top-tier recruit whose ball handling and management did not get appreciably better in college, but he's a top-tier defender

Greer looks pretty competent and will get better and better

Lathon was an outlier situation

BMac locked out others for four years, but got NU to the dance

I'm old and don't see as well as I used to, but this doesn't look like malpractice to me. I would join you in the argument that B10 guards are easier to recruit through NU admissions than B10 bigs so I did not think guards would be a problem area. And, if the next five years at guard looks similar to the last two then, sure, there's an issue. But I just don't see that Collins has fallen down on this as you assert.

 

[hdhntr1]

I get it, but it’s not like it happened on the eve of the season. There were four full months to figure it out. The team has no plan on offense, *and* they don’t seem to be particularly engaged.

CCC had a plan. He decided to go with a no PG but a bunch of guys capable of handling the ball type O. It was out of necessity and because Greer was not ready so he really had no choice. So he had plans. It worked somewhat but as it has been seen, teams have had a chance to see it and are better prepared to face it and attack its weaknesses.

 

[hdhntr1]

If CCC can’t recruit at least two talented guards onto the same roster, then he is not the super recruiter.

He had them, the second being Gaines (I would say he is pretty talented). I would add Taylor and Turner (while Turner is listed as a F on this roster, he was originally recruited as a 2 guard for BC (3 star ranked as the #125 recruit and had 6 P5 type offers and interest from WIS, MICH and IND ). But then Lathon pulled whatever he did. Even now he has more than two talented guards on this roster. The shortage is not at guard in general but at BIG ready PG and while we were in good shape with Lathon, without him we are short.

 

[NJCat]

Just to be real for a second....

Vasser was a mistake

Lyndsey was an off guard who didn't suck

Without Isiah Brown's contribution in a handful of games (Wisconsin) there's an argument that NU doesn't dance

Ash was top-tier recruit whose ball handling and management did not get appreciably better in college, but he's a top-tier defender

Greer looks pretty competent and will get better and better

Lathon was an outlier situation

BMac locked out others for four years, but got NU to the dance

I'm old and don't see as well as I used to, but this doesn't look like malpractice to me. I would join you in the argument that B10 guards are easier to recruit through NU admissions than B10 bigs so I did not think guards would be a problem area. And, if the next five years at guard looks similar to the last two then, sure, there's an issue. But I just don't see that Collins has fallen down on this as you assert.

I forgot Lindsey. Good catch.

Disagree about Brown. And Ash wasn't a top tier recruit based on 247 data, he was actually the same as Greer.

Too soon to judge Greer one way or the other.

 

[hdhntr1]

neither of the games above went to overtime

the whole board will be bitching the same way when bmac and scottie were frosh and soph and making young mistakes and not physically developed the way older players are

While Lindsey as a Frosh was not there yet , as a Soph, it was more his focus that was lacking. He was way different as a Jr. But BMac was older coming in and he was more like a Soph coming in and as a Soph was more like an upperclassman

 

[hdhntr1]

I see your point, but what I think Medill is getting at is that CC is not to blame for Lathon's transgressions. If Lathon had not screwed up, then the roster wouldn't be broken. I mean, even if Lathon had screwed up but it was earlier in the recruitment process, we still might have had a chance to land a solid PG.

I would suggest that we did land a solid (but not ready PG) Lathon would have been a guy that was solid at the position and ready to play at this level

 

[hdhntr1]

Sure. No biggie. Lots of players do it.

It can be if you are used to playing. Turner did it coming to NU but how many of the other players we have had transfer in have? Most are grad transfers. Doyle is the only other one I can recall and I do not remember if he sat for the year

 

[IGNORE]

Just to be real for a second....

Vasser was a mistake Yes - in many ways

Lyndsey was an off guard who didn't suck Maybe. He was only good for one season. And the whispers about last season's demise often include his name.

Without Isiah Brown's contribution in a handful of games (Wisconsin) there's an argument that NU doesn't dance He has another bad recruiting decision. SG recruited to play PG. Then, run out because he wasn't able to remake himself.

Ash was top-tier recruit whose ball handling and management did not get appreciably better in college, but he's a top-tier defender Top tier - I challenge. He was filler needed when CCC just starter. I doubt he would be recruited by CCC if he has in HS now, assuming all the same skills.

Greer looks pretty competent and will get better and better Plucked a year too early, we are seeing that is not a good formula, nor is relying on true freshman. He may develop, or may be scarred from this experience. No one knows, but haywood has already moved on and he is right more often than wrong so...

Lathon was an outlier situation But is was more of that all eggs in one true freshman basket. CCC is at fault for not already having a legit LG or PG on the roster. Live and die by the true frosh, CCC got cut. His fault.

BMac locked out others for four years, but got NU to the dance BMAc got us to the dance. I think the Curry camps hurt him, I think overuse hurt him. The only complaint I have about BMac the player is if he was part of the chemistry problem as has been suggested, then boo on him. And boo on CCC for not handling his team better and maybe quit the 20 team captains approach...

I'm old and don't see as well as I used to, but this doesn't look like malpractice to me. I would join you in the argument that B10 guards are easier to recruit through NU admissions than B10 bigs so I did not think guards would be a problem area. And, if the next five years at guard looks similar to the last two then, sure, there's an issue. But I just don't see that Collins has fallen down on this as you assert.

 

[hdhntr1]

I forgot Lindsey. Good catch.

Disagree about Brown. And Ash wasn't a top tier recruit based on 247 data, he was actually the same as Greer.

Too soon to judge Greer one way or the other.

Brown was talented. But he was not embracing the PG function as part of his job description. And without that, he did not fit.

 

[IGNORE]

It can be if you are used to playing. Turner did it coming to NU but how many of the other players we have had transfer in have? Most are grad transfers. Doyle is the only other one I can recall and I do not remember if he sat for the year

Doyle, MT1, Cote all come to mind. But if you check out the transfer list each year, you will see that many kids do it. So, Lathon plays well, keeps out of trouble, he can:

1. Finish out at UTEP
2. Finish out at P5 school that might help him play professionally, or go into coaching. (And maybe compete for something along the way...)

 

[hdhntr1]

I forgot Lindsey. Good catch.

Disagree about Brown. And Ash wasn't a top tier recruit based on 247 data, he was actually the same as Greer.

Too soon to judge Greer one way or the other.

Ash also had offers from IA and PU. While not a 4 star, definitely looked like a solid recruit and a better offer profile than we were used to seeing before CCC came to town. His development has definitely been hindered by the injuries he has had.

 

[hdhntr1]

Doyle, MT1, Cote all come to mind. But if you check out the transfer list each year, you will see that many kids do it. So, Lathon plays well, keeps out of trouble, he can:

1. Finish out at UTEP
2. Finish out at P5 school that might help him play professionally, or go into coaching. (And maybe compete for something along the way...)

I also do not remember MT1 sitting out as he likely claimed Hardship as he was coming back home. Cote, I do not recall any details. Do not disagree that he can transfer. Just do not know if he will. Right now he is getting 33 mpg. If he can claim hardship, could see him transferring but if not, not sure I see him sitting.

 

[NUCat320]

Brown was talented. But he was not embracing the PG function as part of his job description. And without that, he did not fit.

Brown wasn’t a point guard and wasn’t recruited to be one. Programs only recruit one point guard every four years!

Rhetorical victory!