Coaches Lose Another One
- Thread starter catfans5
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You literally have no idea what the football admission standards are.
Trying to imagine the excitement of a Lovie vs. Wanny matchup, wow.
Where's an Abe Gibron when you need him??
I don't disagree on the OL but the rest of the O was reasonable. The DL performance also raised questions especially with the DEs. And while we have seen descent DL performance recently, not so much on the OL. In fact, based on what we saw Saturday, if we were looking to move our current OL coach, we should seriously look at the WMU guy.
Remind me how long ago you worked there. (I already know the answer to that but let's just get it out in the open.) Your pipeline on information hasn't exactly been authoritative for some time. Looking back at your recruiting predictions you have missed quite a bit. That's to say nothing of your game predictions, though that is not necessarily indicative of inside information.
Although you make valuable contributions to the board, I'm hardly alone in rolling my eyes about how you treat other posters, especially when you are challenged. I know quite a bit about you and I have kept my mouth shut for too long. I'm sick of watching you smack down other NU fans who post.
Your 'tough DIII guy' approach is not going to work on me and unless you want to lay bare a lot of detail consider moderating your tone. There's so much value in your contributions but your tone leaves a lot to be desired.
I also don't think you should presume to know how much any posters do or don't know. There's a reason why posters don't want to admit certain knowledge. I'm sure it's the same reason you refuse to admit information when challenged.
I said the same thing two years ago in a discussion about Cush. Why does a MAC team have a guy with PSU experience while we have a guy who caddies for Fitz?
Yep, thanks. Still a great win but they weren't yet top 10 and we were at home. Again it's been seven years since we beat a top 5 opponent. Going on four years since we beat Iowa. Going on never since we beat OSU under Pat.
He's dead serious and basing his thoughts on Pat's actual record. Fitz has not won anything yet and what evidence is there that he ever will?
About five years now. I've never really claimed insider information anymore, just that I'm a longtime fan with a unique perspective on the program and how it works.
Regardless, I guarantee you that I have a much more intimate knowledge of how admissions works for football prospects and the standards used (which could very well have changed, but probably not materially). If coaches or recruiting personnel are actually discussing those numbers with members of the general public, I would be FLOORED.
Saying "your predictions haven't been all that great" has absolutely no bearing on my knowledge of the football admissions process/standards, even if it is somewhat dated. That my hit-rate is lower now that I'm not intimately involved in the process is only logical; it is difficult enough to predict recruits' decisions with that level of knowledge and more difficult still without it. I'm just taking my best guess based on my experience with the team and what I can glean from Rivals updates. (Incidentally, the inability to predict the decision making processes of 16- and 17-year old football players is a big part of the reason I got out of recruiting -- I was sick of my professional development/progress hinging on the often-irrational decisions of teenagers, plus didn't want to start the "job-hopping" process necessary to move up in college football.)
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I was mostly referring to the Dave Wannstedt remark. Dude was a pretty unremarkable NCAA and NFL coach (42-31/24-18 NCAA record with one bowl win and one conference title in 6 seasons at Pitt, 82-87 NFL record with one division win and one playoff win in 11 seasons with the Bears and Dolphins) who just happened to be at practice this fall in his current role as a commentator. Not sure why he would be the first name recommended in almost any scenario.
I will share that some knowledge has been gleaned from families and coaches saying where NU told them that grades and scores needed to be.
I'll try and answer why Wannstedt, if you actually pretend that your listening. In six seasons at Pitt., he won one bowl game and one conference title. Fitzgerald on the other hand, in 10 seasons has one bowl win and zero conference titles. Not enough, you say well, OK he won a Division Championship and has a playoff win on his record and maybe he actually coached other playoff games. A joke you say, well just how many playoff wins has Fitz coached. Have you noticed how much press coverage and additional season tickets are a result of another ex Chicago coach has brought to Illinois. Also. the Phillips possibility has been discussed numerous times by the Chicago media , as well as on this board. The joke would be on NU if they go another 10 years, losing to MAC teams, winning one bowl game and never even sniffing a Division Championship, let alone a Conference Title.
But Pitt was in truly foul shape for so many years. Not to mention, one conference title is one more than Fitz has at NU. If Fitz had wanted to win one, he should have done it before the divisional and title game format. I am talking about sacrilege here, but I question whether or not we would have won a conference title under the modern format in 1995, 96 or 2000. For one thing, we avoided OSU each of those years.
willy, Wannstedt is a reach because he's 64 and hiring him would be a copycat of what Illinois has done. Also, doesn't Chicago look back at Lovie fondly but consider Wanny'd tenure a failure?
There's a reason he only lasted 6 years at Pitt, even with far less recruiting restrictions than Fitz. I would throw up if Wanny were ever hired as the head coach of NU. If you were in the vicinity when this happened, I would not turn my head away from your general direction, either.
You call it a joke; I call it a likely outcome. But I don't understand why we think something greatly exceeding that is going to happen.
Go for it, but every situation is particular. There's a whole lot more art than science behind it, though general parameters were established regarding core GPA (>3.0, >3.2 more realistic), SAT/ACT (generally >1000 two-part SAT or 20 ACT composite with an emphasis on reading for both; more realistically >1100 and 22, respectively), and class rank (at least top half, top quarter more realistically). Those are all leaps and bounds above NCAA minimums.
I know I shouldn't be fueling the fires of discontent and whineration, but ESPN just reported that Northwestern is out of the playoff race after week 1:
Fire someone! Hire Ditka, Wanny, or any other warm body!
COLLEGE FOOTBALL
3hMark Schlabach
Eliminator Week 1: 29 teams cut from playoff race
So long, Northwestern, Mississippi State and four other Power 5 teams that are already out of playoff contention.
3hMark Schlabach
Eliminator Week 1: 29 teams cut from playoff race
So long, Northwestern, Mississippi State and four other Power 5 teams that are already out of playoff contention.
Fire someone! Hire Ditka, Wanny, or any other warm body!
Not sure Mike Ditka qualifies as a "warm body" at this point.......
And far, far below regular admissions any way you slice it. The point of these almost arbitrary standards are to ensure an athlete would do well at NU but frankly many athletes could do fine at NU with an 18 ACT especially with personalized course loads, summer session, tutoring.
How does having standards way above NCAA clearinghouse standards but way below NU regular admissions benefit our football team? It's almost a built-in excuse. Like, 'we are always 8-4 rather than 11-1 because we have tougher standards.' Where are the brownie points supposedly coming from?
Not arbitrary. Based on experience with guys who work their way through the program, influenced by actual experience. It was part of my job to maintain a spreadsheet with every player's academic information from high school to track through NU performance to see if there were any "red flags" to avoid in the future. The benefit is that we maintain our stellar academic program as a program while also maintaining good relations with the faculty of the school, who don't believe we are devaluing a NU degree by loading up on "dumb jocks."
NCAA minimums go as low as a 400 two-part SAT or 37 sum ACT (essentially a 10 composite). You really think those guys would have a prayer of succeeding in NU's academic environment?
Two NFL playoff wins, one each in 1994 and 2000
Apologies... misread the totals on his profile page. Changes EVERYTHING.
I can't speak for the faculty on my own, but some of them think that NU is already "loading up" for football and basketball. Of course, many faculty members and assistant profs down to PhD candidates think that the football/basketball kids are getting unfair advantages and no higher standards are going to change those opinions about athletics.
Based on a conversation with Pat, he indicated that he thought each kid deserved a case by case evaluation, as opposed to a thick red line. Remember, just because most programs can accept a minimum qualifier doesn't mean that NU has to. Let's say football were allowed to offer anybody who qualifies. It's still in Pat's best interest to sign kids who are better students.
If we're going to continue with the status quo, then Turk or E Cat would say we ought to be offering every single 3 and 4 star recruit who matches that criteria, a la the Stanford shotgun approach. And that would be interesting, except we don't/can't do this because of, yep, our special little admissions rules about offers and official visits.
So, admissions handicaps us in multiple ways and we will always have those built-in excuses and moral victories. It makes you wonder why anybody should fork over $600 for a parking spot in the West Lot knowing that we'd like to win but we're not ever going to win big and it's our own fault.
Wannstedt would be our equivalent of Tim Beckman. Wanny rode Jimmy Johnson's coattails to the head coaching jobs he had and failed miserably in every situation. His tenure with the Bears was a joke. He is probably the last guy on earth I would think of to replace Fitz.
That's the best argument for signing Fitz forever, right?
In my opinion, with the commitment NU has made to football, it's reasonable to *expect* the program to win the division every five years, even if that's a level the program has never reached.
With Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Nebraska and Purdue the competition, the division is begging for a program to take control. Why not NU?
LOL. We lose a game and people talk about replacing Fitz with Wannstedt.
Football is a zero sum game. Some teams lose and some win. Even the fans at some of the most established programs get frustrated and demand that their coaches be fired. USC, with its lauded recruiting classes, lost by 50 to Alabama. What are their fans saying this week? What exactly are our expectations here?
Well, we do "win big" on occasion, and I bet it happens again on Saturday.
I like the way Fitz runs the program. I like the fact that our guys graduate and are part of the Northwestern community, and aren't some guns for hire who live and work separately from the rest of the students. It's a fine line with admissions, sure. But our guys seem to be successful in the classroom and in the real world after graduation. Maybe that means in turn that we'll never have consistently dominating teams that compete for national championships. Who knows, maybe they'll surprise us.
Yes, the West is the weaker of the 2 divisions. I believe we will get a point where we do in fact win at least at that rate.
However, the commitment NU has made to football is almost all rooted in the new facility. I will also say the commitment was primarily made by private donors. Look around campus and you can see the commitment to non-football improvements are also abundant. Currently, IMO the NU facilities for athletics are either the worst or near the worst in the B1G. The update was long overdue. What about Ryan Stadium? Sure we have an improved parking lot and a new NU tarp to cover empty seats, but what else? This commitment for the stadium isn't even close to most of our competition. How is NU's recruiting budget compared to the rest of the B1G?
College football has become an arms race. Pretty much EVERY program expects to win and if they are knocking on the door, a new flashy gimmick appears. Barber shops, nap rooms, luxurious study area's, private dining choices, all popping up. Geez, even Minny built a new stadium, Illinois brought in Lovie with some of the highest profile/paid Assistants around. Nebby, Whisky, and Iowa have impressive set up's and have for some time.
The commitment is to just give us a fighting chance to compete on the recruiting trail.
Is your opinion that one division title every five years is an unreasonable expectation?
Going forward, we should be competing for division titles. I think one every five years is a reasonable expectation when we get our facilities on par.
My point was the NU commitment to football is matched or exceeded by most of our completion in the B1G. IMO, we have been operating at a severe disadvantage forever in this regard. It will be nice to have a big time practice facility, but our stadium remains once of the least impressive in the B1G.
You do realize we won the conference title three times in a six year period before, right?
Well, we do "win big" on occasion, and I bet it happens again on Saturday.
I like the way Fitz runs the program. I like the fact that our guys graduate and are part of the Northwestern community, and aren't some guns for hire who live and work separately from the rest of the students. It's a fine line with admissions, sure. But our guys seem to be successful in the classroom and in the real world after graduation. Maybe that means in turn that we'll never have consistently dominating teams that compete for national championships. Who knows, maybe they'll surprise us.
Then why not drop to FCS or DIII?
Yes, and that was an amazing stretch. It doesn't mean it is realistically NU's norm.
And 1995 was the only season where we won that title outright. The 8-4(6-2) 2000 season was actually worse than our 10-3(6-2) 2015 season with both marred by blowout bowl losses.
At the end of the day, I think it's fair to expect us to be consistently competing for division titles. In the past, the seasons in which we have competed have proven to be more "flash in the pan" events where the personnel and schedule align to push us up one year before crashing back down to earth (1995 being the exception).
In my view, Fitz has taken the "long game" approach to building the NU program, trying to increase the athleticism in the program so we gradually raise the program's "floor." Even last year with two huge B1G October losses, we were playing meaningful B1G games well into November; we needed a ton of help to get to Indianapolis, but it was a conversation that could still happen.
Once completed, the lakefront facilities are going to be critical in pushing the program forward -- we've already seen a small bump in recruiting with the facilities existing only on drawing boards and I expect there to be a much larger bump once they are actually in use. The Tennessee and WMU games are clearly not good signs for a program looking to take the next step, but let's not overreact to two games and lose sight of the generally-upward, but not necessarily linear, trend of Northwestern football under Fitzgerald.
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