Collins will be getting lots of calls

[ThatkidfromHolland]

It’s fascinating to see how people view Collins has bad-mediocre coach at any point during his tenure. He showed promise early on by changing the identity of NU by playing strong defense resulting in the 2014 upset of a very good Wisconsin team. He got NU to their first ever tournament appearance and won. A bad-mediocre coach does not do something that historically significant. No other coach has ever done that before at NU. He didn’t suddenly forget how to coach inbetween tournament seasons. He did however learn how to become a great coach over these seasons. The margin between a winning and a losing team is not that much in the B1G. He then brought this NU team to back to back tournament appearances another brand new feat. Is also still getting wins despite the many significant injuries. The player development and in game coaching has been underrated by this board throughout his tenure. He is the greatest coach in NU history and most programs would be very happy to have him.

 

[thewildcat2011]

Dude it’s The Rock. 4-5 high volume posters find a way to insert a combination of Schill, Gragg, or Fitz into every topic. It’s often extremely creative how they manage to shoehorn one or more of them in, and part of the reason I pay for premium access is to bear witness to their craft.

It's not The Rock, though. Like Dr. Gagg and the big Schill you are in the wrong place!!

Praise Fitz, king emperor.

 

[clarificationcat]

What makes you think Collins can't get another transfer 3 pt shooter which is exactly what he did with Langborg just a year ago? Especially now since the program is even more attractive for a transfer after another great season?

At this point I trust Collins to figure out what he needs to make next years team as good as possible. With some nice pieces back he has earned the benefit of the doubt that he can figure out what they need and get it.

If we give Smith a scholarship, we currently would have one opening for a transfer so we either sign a point guard or a 3-point shooting wing and point guard is the priority. If there is a point guard already on the roster or if they don't give Smith a scholarship, that solves that problem. Otherwise, he has to choose. We will also only have 2 centers on the roster if Nicholson returns. I have faith in Collins as well but I appreciate that it's really hard to finish in the top half of the conference without a great lead guard.

 

[hdhntr1]

Good Lord. Anyone that can’t see by now that CCC is the complete package as a Coach either isn’t looking or has a bias to support their silly call for his ouster two seasons ago.

For the record, I don’t think Carmody was a bad basketball Coach. However, he was a terrible recruiter that didn’t even put in the effort to try.

Look forward to the claims he sucks next year and only win because of number 0.

Carmody was a descent coach but as you say, never put the effort into recruiting as if it was beneath him. Kaminsky came to campus and Carmody was nowhere to be be found

 

[hdhntr1]

This is ridiculous. Collins will get another 2-3 year bump and get a salary that puts him in the top-5ish in the conference, and that will be that. He’s not leaving for another Big Ten job, he’s definitely not the kind of coach who would be a low-risk hire into the SEC, and he doesn’t fit the profile of your typical NBA target.

Northwestern is in the Big 2. Basically no chance that anyone outside the Big Ten or SEC can put together a financial package to lure him away from a comfortable position. Any discussion to the contrary is silly.

Other programs could as the ACC is big in BB and PAC 12 could put together something and plenty of new programs in PAC now BIG programs. But for the most part, other than Gragg, why would he? He has bought himself another 5 year window with a little bump taking him to 2029. He is home where he grew up. Family here and better recruiting territory than other areas. One thing getting him to move but his family?

 

[CatManTrue]

I think Coach K is the role model for Collins. He wants to build his own legacy at Northwestern.

CCC has a pretty sweet gig and unique opportunity. Let’s hope he appreciates it.

 

[JimStarr777]

CCC has a pretty sweet gig and unique opportunity. Let’s hope he appreciates it.

Maybe others should appreciate him more. He sure gets sh*t on a lot for someone who has accomplished what he has.

 

[UpsetAlert]

Dude, please stop,

#ThanksGatabowl

Carl is Gragg’s biggest fan.

 

[UpsetAlert]

Please stop it. Collins improved the teams he inherited from Day 1. Look at the build-up in his record. Do you think, after 100 years of ineptitude, a coach who finally makes great progress and achieves the ultimate goal is not likely to fall back? He did, and then he built it back up again, better than ever.

Dude loves getting dunked on. It’s weird.

 

[CatManTrue]

I cannot believe that we are awaiting our second straight Big Ten Tournament with a double bye, with a guaranteed spot in the NCAA Tournament for the second straight year, with a unanimous all Big Ten player leading us into the Dance yet the makings of a deep, talented, veteran roster returning, in a state of the art arena that we are selling out and filling up for games against the likes of Minnesota, and this conversation is the busiest thread on this website?

Seriously?

If it helps, the Caitlin Clark thread is technically busier

 

[Katatonic]

I stated this way back when CC was in the midst of his first season here and hardly in demand - that if he had pretty good success at NU (several Tourney appearances) that he wouldn't leave even for Dook, at least not at first (would have to be a Roy Williams situation).

Chicagoland is his home, he has family and friends here, the Northshore is a great place to rear kids (easy access to a cosmopolitan city) and it seemed like CC wanted to build his own program/legacy (rather than be a cog in another).

Don't think anything has really changed, so don't think there's any real danger of CC leaving as long as he gets a reasonable raise at some point (if CC's smart, he'll ensure more $ for his assistants to keep them around),

Collins gets paid a lot of money to coach in basically his hometown with a new, rockin' arena and low fan expectations. He's also got school-aged kids. I really only see him leaving if he feels like he's hit a ceiling at NU (ie - making the tournament every year but NIL/admissions are preventing us from making a Sweet 16 or later run). Or I guess if Gragg is stupid enough to put him on the hot seat for not making a Sweet 16.

But for injuries, this team was capable of making a Sweet 16 run.

This years FB team was built to succeed and would have under FItz. His biggest mistake in hiring JON he rectified in a big way with the hiring of Braun and a couple others. What is substantially different is how many guys we lost that will make things really difficult in coming years. He and Schill completely mishandled it.

The BB team was ready to break through as well. But again Graggs actions made recruiting much more difficult for a couple years

While improved, doubt this past season would have been as good as under Braun (Braun is a better game planner and game manager).

 

[Katatonic]

This is ridiculous. Collins will get another 2-3 year bump and get a salary that puts him in the top-5ish in the conference, and that will be that. He’s not leaving for another Big Ten job, he’s definitely not the kind of coach who would be a low-risk hire into the SEC, and he doesn’t fit the profile of your typical NBA target.

Northwestern is in the Big 2. Basically no chance that anyone outside the Big Ten or SEC can put together a financial package to lure him away from a comfortable position. Any discussion to the contrary is silly.

I don’t think the Big 2 applies to basketball. I’m sure the Big 12 and ACC have teams who would put together financial packages. Also, Vanderbilt may be a SEC team who would look at a coach like Collins.

The Big 2 schools already make millions more than the ACC, B12, BE, etc schools.

Under the proposed 14 game CFB propsal, the B1G and SEC would get 58% of the payout, which equals to another $21 million for each B1G school (that's about double the payout for ACC/B12 svhools).

$ will not be a problem for NU.

Please stop it. Collins improved the teams he inherited from Day 1. Look at the build-up in his record. Do you think, after 100 years of ineptitude, a coach who finally makes great progress and achieves the ultimate goal is not likely to fall back? He did, and then he built it back up again, better than ever.

Please, making 4 straight NITs (would have been 5, but for injuries/suspension) is not ineptitude.

CC made progress by finally breaking through, but let's not rewrite history and make it seem like having 5 straight losing seasons is any sort of progress (and that included a Tourney team minus just Sanjay and Tap - whom you didn't think were crucial to the Tourney run - and the follwing year, Pardon and Law at the height of their college careers).

In fact, that would be an example of going back to the bad old days when the program was only capable of a winning season every 4/5 yrs with a Senior laden team.

Also, take away the program having started to win on a consistent basis (don't think CC would be here if that didn't happen) and the shiny new facilities and more $ for the coaching staff and chances are, CC's success here would be a lot more modest.

It’s fascinating to see how people view Collins has bad-mediocre coach at any point during his tenure. He showed promise early on by changing the identity of NU by playing strong defense resulting in the 2014 upset of a very good Wisconsin team. He got NU to their first ever tournament appearance and won. A bad-mediocre coach does not do something that historically significant. No other coach has ever done that before at NU. He didn’t suddenly forget how to coach inbetween tournament seasons. He did however learn how to become a great coach over these seasons. The margin between a winning and a losing team is not that much in the B1G. He then brought this NU team to back to back tournament appearances another brand new feat. Is also still getting wins despite the many significant injuries. The player development and in game coaching has been underrated by this board throughout his tenure. He is the greatest coach in NU history and most programs would be very happy to have him.

CC was mediocre in those 5 losing seasons because he inexplicably went away from the D-first philsophy and roster construction that had initially brought him success (being preoccupied with a string of stretch-4s); he also needed to revamp his coaching staff.

CC learned from those mistakes and is a better coach as a result of it.

It just boggles my mind how so many think CC did what he has accomplished in a vacuum, and that he hadn't built upon what BC had built (a consistently winning program - from one that had previously won only once every 4-5 yrs) and that CC also got what all the previous coaches didn't get - administration support as in not only new/state of the art everyday facilities, but basically a new arena and a larger budget for coaches.

Carmody was a descent coach but as you say, never put the effort into recruiting as if it was beneath him. Kaminsky came to campus and Carmody was nowhere to be be found

Maybe BC was out really recruiting another player that he liked better?

CC missed on Happ, who also had NU connections - are we supposed to hang that on him forever?

CC is the better recruiter, but the vast majority of his higher ranked recruits have not panned out.

Ironically, CC has been getting better results with less heralded recruits who are more willing to do the "dirty work" (the type of recruits that BC used to get; BC just never got enough of them to overcome injuries, suspensions, departures, etc).

 

[CatManTrue]

Payne is out at Louisville after 2 seasons.

The program sounds like a total mess based on this arricle. I don’t think we have to worry about them hiring CCC away.

Sources: L'ville to inform Payne he's out as coach

After Louisville's season-ending 94-85 loss to NC State in the ACC tournament, school officials were expected to inform Kenny Payne that he will not return as head coach, sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

Please, making 4 straight NITs (would have been 5, but for injuries/suspension) is not ineptitude.

CC made progress by finally breaking through, but let's not rewrite history and make it seem like having 5 straight losing seasons is any sort of progress (and that included a Tourney team minus just Sanjay and Tap - whom you didn't think were crucial to the Tourney run - and the follwing year, Pardon and Law at the height of their college careers).

In fact, that would be an example of going back to the bad old days when the program was only capable of a winning season every 4/5 yrs with a Senior laden team.

Also, take away the program having started to win on a consistent basis (don't think CC would be here if that didn't happen) and the shiny new facilities and more $ for the coaching staff and chances are, CC's success here would be a lot more modest.




CC was mediocre in those 5 losing seasons because he inexplicably went away from the D-first philsophy and roster construction that had initially brought him success (being preoccupied with a string of stretch-4s); he also needed to revamp his coaching staff.

CC learned from those mistakes and is a better coach as a result of it.

It just boggles my mind how so many think CC did what he has accomplished in a vacuum, and that he hadn't built upon what BC had built (a consistently winning program - from one that had previously won only once every 4-5 yrs) and that CC also got what all the previous coaches didn't get - administration support as in not only new/state of the art everyday facilities, but basically a new arena and a larger budget for coaches.





Maybe BC was out really recruiting another player that he liked better?

CC missed on Happ, who also had NU connections - are we supposed to hang that on him forever?

CC is the better recruiter, but the vast majority of his higher ranked recruits have not panned out.

Ironically, CC has been getting better results with less heralded recruits who are more willing to do the "dirty work" (the type of recruits that BC used to get; BC just never got enough of them to overcome injuries, suspensions, departures, etc).

🚨🚨🚨 CARMODY LOVER ALERT 🚨🚨🚨

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

The Big 2 schools already make millions more than the ACC, B12, BE, etc schools.

Under the proposed 14 game CFB propsal, the B1G and SEC would get 58% of the payout, which equals to another $21 million for each B1G school (that's about double the payout for ACC/B12 svhools).

$ will not be a problem for NU.




Please, making 4 straight NITs (would have been 5, but for injuries/suspension) is not ineptitude.

CC made progress by finally breaking through, but let's not rewrite history and make it seem like having 5 straight losing seasons is any sort of progress (and that included a Tourney team minus just Sanjay and Tap - whom you didn't think were crucial to the Tourney run - and the follwing year, Pardon and Law at the height of their college careers).

In fact, that would be an example of going back to the bad old days when the program was only capable of a winning season every 4/5 yrs with a Senior laden team.

Also, take away the program having started to win on a consistent basis (don't think CC would be here if that didn't happen) and the shiny new facilities and more $ for the coaching staff and chances are, CC's success here would be a lot more modest.




CC was mediocre in those 5 losing seasons because he inexplicably went away from the D-first philsophy and roster construction that had initially brought him success (being preoccupied with a string of stretch-4s); he also needed to revamp his coaching staff.

CC learned from those mistakes and is a better coach as a result of it.

It just boggles my mind how so many think CC did what he has accomplished in a vacuum, and that he hadn't built upon what BC had built (a consistently winning program - from one that had previously won only once every 4-5 yrs) and that CC also got what all the previous coaches didn't get - administration support as in not only new/state of the art everyday facilities, but basically a new arena and a larger budget for coaches.





Maybe BC was out really recruiting another player that he liked better?

CC missed on Happ, who also had NU connections - are we supposed to hang that on him forever?

CC is the better recruiter, but the vast majority of his higher ranked recruits have not panned out.

Ironically, CC has been getting better results with less heralded recruits who are more willing to do the "dirty work" (the type of recruits that BC used to get; BC just never got enough of them to overcome injuries, suspensions, departures, etc).

How does a mediocre coach bring a team when no basketball history, academic restrictions, and one that plays in a historic conference to its first ever tournament appearance? He didn’t forget how to coach during those seasons he also didn’t go away from defense during those seasons or Young would have started over Nance and Beran would have had less minutes, which the board hated.

Collins deserves criticism for his culture building and ego management as he lost the team in the 2017 season amidst not having a true home court and had to rebuild it from there. We don’t need to make up points to criticize him. He’s had up and down seasons at NU. I also think early on he took the air out of the ball too early in late game situations. He went from a good coach to a great coach. There’s always room for improvement and always something to do better, but a mediocre coach doesn’t accomplish what Collins accomplished. You also don’t go from mediocre to great in one season.

I will give Bill Carmody credit for building NU to the point where a top head coaching candidate like Collins would take a chance at NU. I think he was decent coach who really raised the floor of the NU hoops program. However Carmody’s last season NU finished with a losing record only ahead of PSU in the standings and had no players with any all B1G honors. (Hearn was an honorable mention). Let’s not pretend that the program was left in great place. There’s a reason Carmody got let go. Collins earned that “new budget”, new arena, and state of the art facilities from the tournament season.

Let go of Carmody and just enjoy the program going to places it never had before. It’s been a fun two seasons. Last year was the most fun team to watch NU has ever had in my time watching. This year, healthy, had the highest ceiling of any NU team ever. Just enjoy it.

 

[SDakaGordie]

The Big 2 schools already make millions more than the ACC, B12, BE, etc schools.

Under the proposed 14 game CFB propsal, the B1G and SEC would get 58% of the payout, which equals to another $21 million for each B1G school (that's about double the payout for ACC/B12 svhools).

$ will not be a problem for NU.




Please, making 4 straight NITs (would have been 5, but for injuries/suspension) is not ineptitude.

CC made progress by finally breaking through, but let's not rewrite history and make it seem like having 5 straight losing seasons is any sort of progress (and that included a Tourney team minus just Sanjay and Tap - whom you didn't think were crucial to the Tourney run - and the follwing year, Pardon and Law at the height of their college careers).

In fact, that would be an example of going back to the bad old days when the program was only capable of a winning season every 4/5 yrs with a Senior laden team.

Also, take away the program having started to win on a consistent basis (don't think CC would be here if that didn't happen) and the shiny new facilities and more $ for the coaching staff and chances are, CC's success here would be a lot more modest.




CC was mediocre in those 5 losing seasons because he inexplicably went away from the D-first philsophy and roster construction that had initially brought him success (being preoccupied with a string of stretch-4s); he also needed to revamp his coaching staff.

CC learned from those mistakes and is a better coach as a result of it.

It just boggles my mind how so many think CC did what he has accomplished in a vacuum, and that he hadn't built upon what BC had built (a consistently winning program - from one that had previously won only once every 4-5 yrs) and that CC also got what all the previous coaches didn't get - administration support as in not only new/state of the art everyday facilities, but basically a new arena and a larger budget for coaches.





Maybe BC was out really recruiting another player that he liked better?

CC missed on Happ, who also had NU connections - are we supposed to hang that on him forever?

CC is the better recruiter, but the vast majority of his higher ranked recruits have not panned out.

Ironically, CC has been getting better results with less heralded recruits who are more willing to do the "dirty work" (the type of recruits that BC used to get; BC just never got enough of them to overcome injuries, suspensions, departures, etc).

My preference / approach is not to speak badly of people unless I have reasons to do so. I thought Carmody was excellent and, of course, helped NU be competitive and helped Collins to a small extent. But he just couldn’t get us over the NCAA hump and there were very few signs recruiting was improving over his tenure. My point on “ineptitude” was our history / our program, and that it was not unexpected for Collins to regress after the NCAA year with a program like ours. Of course, it was more regression than we hoped, but he made progress each year moving us out of it.

 

[GatoLouco]

the Northshore is a great place to rear kids

I had no idea! Sir, please expand on this

 

[GatoLouco]

Payne is out at Louisville after 2 seasons.

The program sounds like a total mess based on this arricle. I don’t think we have to worry about them hiring CCC away.

Sources: L'ville to inform Payne he's out as coach

After Louisville's season-ending 94-85 loss to NC State in the ACC tournament, school officials were expected to inform Kenny Payne that he will not return as head coach, sources told ESPN.

www.espn.com

I believe Collins would be a good fit at Louisville. It is, in my opinion, a tougher job than Northwestern. But I think some of the strengths Collins has would really fit well with the program.

Recruiting - He would definitely bring in 5 star caliber talent. Making his job that much easier

Dealing with the locals - Collins is extremely charming. Unless you are a Pitino type, who already carries major armor, you have to be charming. Like the opposite of what Chris Mack was.

 

[Gatabowl]

My preference / approach is not to speak badly of people unless I have, say, 91 reasons to do so. I thought Carmody was excellent and, of course, helped NU be competitive and helped Collins to a small extent. But he just couldn’t get us over the NCAA hump and there were very few signs recruiting was improving over his tenure. My point on “ineptitude” was our history / our program, and that it was not unexpected for Collins to regress after the NCAA year with a program like ours. Of course, it was more regression than we hoped, but he made progress each year moving us out of it.

He didn’t just “regress.” It was 5 bad seasons, some of which were his worst as a head coach. This whole thread is about the external perception of Collins immediately following those 5 years.

I thought Gragg publicly commenting was dumb. I also think that any recruit looking at the past 5 seasons would wonder about CCC’s leash toward the end of his contract. He wasn’t an immortal rock; he easily could have been viewed as quite vulnerable for multiple reasons.

 

[CappyNU]

I had no idea! Sir, please expand on this

Definition of REAR

to erect by building : construct; to raise upright; to breed and raise (an animal) for use or market… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[IGNORE2]

You did not include last year, which is not fair. As I’ve said before, Gragg’s one conversation has little to no ability to influence the outcome of a developmental program like NU’s.

His body of work looked like a fluke to those not looking really closely. There was plenty of evidence to show how close we were to a very good team and how we improved since the year after the tourney. I won’t rehash two years’ worth of “discussions” on the board, but I’m not sure you were a part of those and there were at least a few saying he should not be on the hot seat.

I seem to recall you accused me recently of singing the same song repeatedly. It’s quite hilarious as I don’t think there is not a single post on WR from you doing anything other than pimping CCC. #onetrickpony

 

[IGNORE2]

Good Lord. Anyone that can’t see by now that CCC is the complete package as a Coach either isn’t looking or has a bias to support their silly call for his ouster two seasons ago.

For the record, I don’t think Carmody was a bad basketball Coach. However, he was a terrible recruiter that didn’t even put in the effort to try.

Look forward to the claims he sucks next year and only win because of number 0.

I think has really evolved into a very good coach. I do believe he can still grow. For example, I’d like to see him become more influential over the zebras ala Izzo (a HOF coach).

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

I think has really evolved into a very good coach. I do believe he can still grow. For example, I’d like to see him become more influential over the zebras ala Izzo (a HOF coach).

If he keeps finishing in the top third of the conference, the influence will follow. He already works the refs better than any NU coach I’ve seen. Now he needs to earn the perception that good teams get. Good teams and players get more calls. Buie is exhibit A for NU. Consistent high level play with earn you the benefit of the doubt with the refs. He’s a very savvy player and knows how to work the game to his advantage.

 

[EvanstonCat]

This years FB team was built to succeed and would have under FItz. His biggest mistake in hiring JON he rectified in a big way with the hiring of Braun and a couple others. What is substantially different is how many guys we lost that will make things really difficult in coming years. He and Schill completely mishandled it.

The BB team was ready to break through as well. But again Graggs actions made recruiting much more difficult for a couple years

Let’s agree to disagree. Fitz coached better players (including multiple NFL draft picks) to a 1-11 record. I don’t think he could have won 8 games. But I guess we will never know.

 

[Max_Power]

"However Carmody’s last season NU finished with a losing record only ahead of PSU in the standings and had no players with any all B1G honors. (Hearn was an honorable mention)."

The reason Carmody's last team finished with 13 wins was due to injury to 2/3 best players. Crawford played 10 games that season. Swopshire played 24. They did not win after Swopshire was injured losing their last 7 which means that before his injury they were 13-12. That's like Boo going down 10 games into the season and Brooks going down after game 24.

The issue I have is that people keep revising the status of the program under Carmody downward - you did it in your post. Carmody's teams won 20, 20 and 19 games before the injury riddled last year. Then there is the complete message board generated recruiting issues (similar to the story now being painted - fairly or not - about the current AD which - other than the situation surrounding baseball - is literally people passing on stories they were told by their cousins' friends' little brother who does not work at NU but once overheard a conversation between two NU employees or people who could have been NU employees).

People ignore that NU's basketball program was a joke before Carmody. The facilities were a joke during the Carmody era. I can honestly say the only thing I miss about the old W-R is that in the last few years, they added spectacular scoreboards behind the basket. Other than that, it was awful. The lockerrooms were laughable until they were upgraded to just above laughable.

When Collins came in, the plans were already moving forward to improve both. I said back then that it would not be fair to judge Collins until his facilities were on par with the rest of the conference. That happened in 2018. That Collins made the NCAA before that is amazing.

That said, Collins had three really bad seasons as a coach prior to the last two. But, after he was told to win or else - instead of giving up, he stepped up and made changes throughout the program and we have all enjoyed the ride. Also, he just seems like a happier guy and I have been really impressed by how he has physically transformed in the last 12 months - dude has gotten fit.

So yeah, its not been all sunshine but it appears that NU is headed on the right path. All the same, success in the Big10 is fickle thing even for the elite (see Indiana). But as was correctly pointed out - this staff has done a fantastic job with talent identification, player develop and putting players in position to succeed in the last few years. Now they need to continue to develop the players on the roster and find players for the system they want to play and this next class (2025) might be the most important in the last few years.

 

[Max_Power]

If he keeps finishing in the top third of the conference, the influence will follow. He already works the refs better than any NU coach I’ve seen. Now he needs to earn the perception that good teams get. Good teams and players get more calls. Buie is exhibit A for NU. Consistent high level play with earn you the benefit of the doubt with the refs. He’s a very savvy player and knows how to work the game to his advantage.

I don't think Buie gets the benefit of doubt with the refs. I would argue that only 1 player in the Big10 gets the benefit of the doubt - Zach Edey. Its why I would guess 75% of the starters in the Big10 this year have a foul called against them when they were within 10 feet of Edey. It might be the worst referring job by any conference and I think its ultimately a disservice to Edey and Purdue who have to play an entirely different game come March.

 

[Max_Power]

He didn’t just “regress.” It was 5 bad seasons, some of which were his worst as a head coach. This whole thread is about the external perception of Collins immediately following those 5 years.

I thought Gragg publicly commenting was dumb. I also think that any recruit looking at the past 5 seasons would wonder about CCC’s leash toward the end of his contract. He wasn’t an immortal rock; he easily could have been viewed as quite vulnerable for multiple reasons.

Dumb or not, Gragg had no choice but say something as many were questioning whether Collins should return at that point. It has really been an amazing turn around and the only person who should get credit it for it is Collins.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

The reason Carmody's last team finished with 13 wins was due to injury to 2/3 best players. Crawford played 10 games that season. Swopshire played 24. They did not win after Swopshire was injured losing their last 7 which means that before his injury they were 13-12. That's like Boo going down 10 games into the season and Brooks going down after game 24.

The issue I have is that people keep revising the status of the program under Carmody downward - you did it in your post. Carmody's teams won 20, 20 and 19 games before the injury riddled last year. Then there is the complete message board generated recruiting issues (similar to the story now being painted - fairly or not - about the current AD which - other than the situation surrounding baseball - is literally people passing on stories they were told by their cousins' friends' little brother who does not work at NU but once overheard a conversation between two NU employees or people who could have been NU employees).

People ignore that NU's basketball program was a joke before Carmody. The facilities were a joke during the Carmody era. I can honestly say the only thing I miss about the old W-R is that in the last few years, they added spectacular scoreboards behind the basket. Other than that, it was awful. The lockerrooms were laughable until they were upgraded to just above laughable.

When Collins came in, the plans were already moving forward to improve both. I said back then that it would not be fair to judge Collins until his facilities were on par with the rest of the conference. That happened in 2018. That Collins made the NCAA before that is amazing.

That said, Collins had three really bad seasons as a coach prior to the last two. But, after he was told to win or else - instead of giving up, he stepped up and made changes throughout the program and we have all enjoyed the ride. Also, he just seems like a happier guy and I have been really impressed by how he has physically transformed in the last 12 months - dude has gotten fit.

So yeah, it’s not been all sunshine but it appears that NU is headed on the right path. All the same, success in the Big10 is fickle thing even for the elite (see Indiana). But as was correctly pointed out - this staff has done a fantastic job with talent identification, player develop and putting players in position to succeed in the last few years. Now they need to continue to develop the players on the roster and find players for the system they want to play and this next class (2025) might be the most important in the last few years.

What about losing MN and Ty Berry for the season? Langborg is playing hurt and was lost for a few games. A walk on is getting significant minutes. Injuries happen.

I stated that Carmody brought up the floor of the NU program and he did. Carmody deserves credit for what he did. I did not revise it downward. I do not think the state of the program was left in a NCAA tournament caliber place or even close to it. This is the roster Collins was given his first season.

Player	#	Class	Pos	Height	Weight	Hometown	High School	RSCI Top 100	2013-2014 stats
Drew Crawford	1	SR	G	6-5	215	Naperville, IL	Naperville Central		15.7 Pts, 6.4 Reb, 2.2 Ast
Tre Demps	14	SO	G	6-3	198	San Antonio, TX	Ronald Reagan HS		11.0 Pts, 2.5 Reb, 2.2 Ast
JerShon Cobb	23	JR	G	6-5	208	Decatur, GA	Columbia		12.2 Pts, 4.8 Reb, 2.3 Ast
Alex Olah	22	SO	C	7-0	270	Timisoara, Romania	Traders Point Christian Academy		9.1 Pts, 5.2 Reb, 0.8 Ast
Dave Sobolewski	3	JR	G	6-1	180	Naperville, IL	Benet Academy		5.0 Pts, 2.1 Reb, 2.4 Ast
Kale Abrahamson	13	SO	F	6-8	221	West Des Moines, IA	Valley		3.8 Pts, 1.8 Reb, 0.4 Ast
Sanjay Lumpkin	34	FR	G	6-6	220	Wayzata, MN	Benilde-St. Margaret's HS		3.8 Pts, 4.8 Reb, 1.2 Ast
Nathan Taphorn	32	FR	F	6-7	215	Pekin, IL	Pekin HS		2.5 Pts, 1.0 Reb, 0.3 Ast
Nikola Cerina	45	SR	F	6-9	235		Nikola Telsa Secondary School		1.0 Pts, 1.5 Reb, 0.3 Ast
James Mongomery	15	SR	G	6-4	202	Los Angeles, CA	Santa Monica		0.2 Pts, 0.2 Reb, 0.1 Ast
Aaron Liberman	31	FR	C	6-10	218	North Hollywood, CA	Valley Torah		0.2 Pts, 0.5 Reb, 0.0 Ast
Chier Ajou	42	FR	C	7-1	245

2013-14 Northwestern Wildcats Men 's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the detailed 2013-14 Northwestern Wildcats Roster and Stats for College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

One polished high level B1G player with 1 year left in Crawford. A guy who could have been if not for injuries in Cobb. A developing Demps and Olah. A decent role player in Sobolewski. The two guys who ended up on the tournament team took 4 years of developing under Collins and his staff to reach the Tournament. The rest were never major contributors at the P5 level.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

I don't think Buie gets the benefit of doubt with the refs. I would argue that only 1 player in the Big10 gets the benefit of the doubt - Zach Edey. It’s why I would guess 75% of the starters in the Big10 this year have a foul called against them when they were within 10 feet of Edey. It might be the worst referring job by any conference and I think it’s ultimately a disservice to Edey and Purdue who have to play an entirely different game come March.

Edey is the extreme of the examples agreed. Buie 100% gets away with his left hand pushing off and falling on drives. Superstars get the calls always have always will.

 

[SDakaGordie]

I seem to recall you accused me recently of singing the same song repeatedly. It’s quite hilarious as I don’t think there is not a single post on WR from you doing anything other than pimping CCC. #onetrickpony

I’m defending an already well-established and justified in hindsight position to others who may not have been a part of our prior discussions. If you want to continue to say CCC should have been fired, that’s your call, but it’s been getting a bit old and out of touch.

PS I mentioned he should have played Preston over Hunger recently. Guess you missed that.

He didn’t just “regress.” It was 5 bad seasons, some of which were his worst as a head coach. This whole thread is about the external perception of Collins immediately following those 5 years.

I thought Gragg publicly commenting was dumb. I also think that any recruit looking at the past 5 seasons would wonder about CCC’s leash toward the end of his contract. He wasn’t an immortal rock; he easily could have been viewed as quite vulnerable for multiple reasons.

No one was happy with those seasons, but I have disagreed with those who call them bad as worthy of his firing / 1-more-year short leash. I won’t rehash everything, but one metric is SRS, and that showed our “bad” seasons were some of our relatively better ones ever in our program. And the eyeball test of watching our losing many very close games showed how competitive and close we were.

Anyway, recruits may certainly have perceived it as bad and others’ too, but that doesn’t mean it was when you look at it more closely and in context. I would hope recruits and our AD looked closely…

 

[Sec.112]

Oops

 

[Sec.112]

The loyalty to Carmody is the oddest thing I've ever seen in my sports fandom ... any sport. Maybe the Bob Knight protests top it, but he actually won ... you know, multiple championships.

Here we are in the middle of an incredible run, somebody says something critical about a pretty mediocre coach, and here comes the calvalry to save his legacy ... 11 seasons after his exit. God forbid we discuss any of the many faults of his teams.

All of us know this topic has been beaten to death including the equally hyperbolic support for Carmody as greatest coach ever.

Any chance we can limit this debate to one off-seaon day every year and move on? I'd vote for 7/15 to commemorate his thrilling 70-150 B10 career.

 

[GatoLouco]

Buie 100% gets away with his left hand pushing off.

He does it a lot. A lot!

I his defense I don't think it's totally, or always, that he gets way with it. He knows how to do it in just the right amount of pushing that the ref is left wondering if he really pushed or just used his arm to maintain separation. Defender never appears to move. It's really crafty.

 

[Gatabowl]

The loyalty to Carmody is the oddest thing I've ever seen in my sports fandom ... any sport. Maybe the Bob Knight protests top it, but he actually won ... you know, multiple championships.

Here we are in the middle of an incredible run, somebody says something critical about a pretty mediocre coach, and here comes the calvalry to save his legacy ... 11 seasons after his exit. God forbid we discuss any of the many faults of his teams.

All of us know this topic has been beaten to death including the equally hyperbolic support for Carmody as greatest coach ever.

Any chance we can limit this debate to one off-seaon day every year and move on? I'd vote for 7/15 to commemorate his thrilling 70-150 B10 career.

Who is doing that?

The question was whether a recruit would view CCC as being on the hot seat after the 2021-2022 season. In the context of what his predecessor did before he was rightly fired, it’s entirely reasonable to think the external perception would be that CCC was on the brink, especially since it was a five year stretch that looked at least as bad as the 3 years leading up to the first tournament team.

As it turns out, he made some major, major philosophical and tactical changes after some soul searching and has put together two of the best (if not the two best) seasons in school history.

We can debate whether Gragg’s public warning was a good idea (I happen to think it was a bad idea), but our program was looking to not be in great shape for an extended period after an incredible high, and I’d be surprised if recruits weren’t concerned about that. The tourney season was beginning to look like a major outlier.

 

[Sec.112]

Who is doing that?

The question was whether a recruit would view CCC as being on the hot seat after the 2021-2022 season. In the context of what his predecessor did before he was rightly fired, it’s entirely reasonable to think the external perception would be that CCC was on the brink, especially since it was a five year stretch that looked at least as bad as the 3 years leading up to the first tournament team.

As it turns out, he made some major, major philosophical and tactical changes after some soul searching and has put together two of the best (if not the two best) seasons in school history.

We can debate whether Gragg’s public warning was a good idea (I happen to think it was a bad idea), but our program was looking to not be in great shape for an extended period after an incredible high, and I’d be surprised if recruits weren’t concerned about that. The tourney season was beginning to look like a major outlier.

You're right. Your comparison that kicked off things was very reasonable. Saying it was critical was a poor characterization on my part.

But that doesn't change the oddity of many of the responses.

 

[clarificationcat]

Who is doing that?

The question was whether a recruit would view CCC as being on the hot seat after the 2021-2022 season. In the context of what his predecessor did before he was rightly fired, it’s entirely reasonable to think the external perception would be that CCC was on the brink, especially since it was a five year stretch that looked at least as bad as the 3 years leading up to the first tournament team.

As it turns out, he made some major, major philosophical and tactical changes after some soul searching and has put together two of the best (if not the two best) seasons in school history.

We can debate whether Gragg’s public warning was a good idea (I happen to think it was a bad idea), but our program was looking to not be in great shape for an extended period after an incredible high, and I’d be surprised if recruits weren’t concerned about that. The tourney season was beginning to look like a major outlier.

I can't believe I am being drawn into this but I am! A few responses to some of the recent posts.

The year after the first tournament team was very disappointing but it certainly was not awful by NU standards. The team was 6 and 6 in the conference when McIntosh got hurt. He missed a few games and played injured and then Law got hurt and was out for the last few games. They lost the last 6 conference games. Certainly not a good coaching job by Collins but they were treading water until the injuries.

As I have mentioned so many times, the last Nance team was a very competitive team and certainly not awful by NU standards. If they hit their free throws in the last couple of minutes they could have had 10 wins (one of the best seasons in the past 50 years). They were in almost every game in the last 5 minutes and the conference was very good that year (Ivey, both Murray's, Davis).

And let's not ignore that Buie transformed from a pretty good point guard to one of the best in the country last year. Instead of everyone dreading Buie taking shots in the last few minutes of a game, he became one of the most clutch players in program history. Put 2022-2023 Buie and Audige (he shot 25% from 3 in 2021-2022 and wasn't 100% physically) on the 2021-2022 team, and we win 10 plus games in the conference without any of the soul searching or major philosophical and tactical changes. And I think it's fair to argue that one of the reasons that Buie became a great player is that he was given the opportunity to fail (a lot). He played a ton of minutes leading up to his senior year.

 

[Gatabowl]

I can't believe I am being drawn into this but I am! A few responses to some of the recent posts.

The year after the first tournament team was very disappointing but it certainly was not awful by NU standards. The team was 6 and 6 in the conference when McIntosh got hurt. He missed a few games and played injured and then Law got hurt and was out for the last few games. They lost the last 6 conference games. Certainly not a good coaching job by Collins but they were treading water until the injuries.

Completely true! Unfortunately we’ve had a lot of situations where our best player get hurt (Shurna) or randomly quits the team (Coble). I agree that teams aren’t as bad as their record would otherwise be when that happens. Still, I’m not sure recruits were going back in time and dissecting why these teams weren’t good.

As I have mentioned so many times, the last Nance team was a very competitive team and certainly not awful by NU standards. If they hit their free throws in the last couple of minutes they could have had 10 wins (one of the best seasons in the past 50 years). They were in almost every game in the last 5 minutes and the conference was very good that year (Ivey, both Murray's, Davis).

This describes every team from 08-09 to 11-12. We have had so many “if only we did this one tiny thing” seasons. Brutal.

And let's not ignore that Buie transformed from a pretty good point guard to one of the best in the country last year. Instead of everyone dreading Buie taking shots in the last few minutes of a game, he became one of the most clutch players in program history. Put 2022-2023 Buie and Audige (he shot 25% from 3 in 2021-2022 and wasn't 100% physically) on the 2021-2022 team, and we win 10 plus games in the conference without any of the soul searching or major philosophical and tactical changes. And I think it's fair to argue that one of the reasons that Buie became a great player is that he was given the opportunity to fail (a lot). He played a ton of minutes leading up to his senior year.

Agree. But none of that was clear coming off of the 5 losing seasons post tourney. That’s the point. I’m glad it worked out!

 

[hdhntr1]

He didn’t just “regress.” It was 5 bad seasons, some of which were his worst as a head coach. This whole thread is about the external perception of Collins immediately following those 5 years.

I thought Gragg publicly commenting was dumb. I also think that any recruit looking at the past 5 seasons would wonder about CCC’s leash toward the end of his contract. He wasn’t an immortal rock; he easily could have been viewed as quite vulnerable for multiple reasons.

He has only been a HC here so his worst few years here are automatically some of his worst. And as far as any recruit feeling he had a short leash should look back to BCs years 7 and 8 where he won oll of 3 BIG games between the two seasons. Any other program he would have been gone after those two seasons, worse than anything CCC ever put up. NU had already shown that they gave people the opportunity to turn things around and CCC had already made progress at getting us out of the ravine

I appreciated what BC did for us and he did get us to a reasonable base but he had shown that he really had no more upside

 

[hdhntr1]

CCC has a pretty sweet gig and unique opportunity. Let’s hope he appreciates it.

He has to work under Gragg so not sure his gig is a sweet as you suggest

 

[hdhntr1]

You’re ignoring that Bajakian was also an enormous mistake — arguably a bigger one which is crazy to think about — and one he didn’t fix.

He was no where near the mistake that JON was. When he had even a reasonable QB he was able to put together respectable offenses. It was built for working with a D oriented team that it was before the Jon hire and also with the bringing in of Braun. You can argue about his inability to land his QB out of HS but he was dealt a pretty poor hand in that area by what was in the cupboard when he arrived. As far as Fitz not replacing him, he replaced JON and it was reasonable to not try to replace both coordinators at the same time. It was evident that Jake would have been on a short leash this past season.